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[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

This whole issue of "being passed over for promotions" is so much utter creamy horseshit, because it denies the fundamental reality that we are not and absolutely can not be the ultimate evaluators of our own workplace performance... we're way too fucking biased.

Think about it... anyone evaluating their own performance in any context will rate themselves higher than they are actually performing. It's basic human psychology. We estimate our own performance higher than it is in reality because we tend to exaggerate where we are doing well and all but ignore where we're fucking up.

It's why self-appraisal systems are so common in companies because they try to force employees to confront their weaknesses and place focus on areas of growth.

So whenever, anyone is claiming to have been passed over for a promotion because of anything related to anything other than performance, I would always call BS, because, without direct proof (that is never available -- because you'd need to demonstrate directly that your performance in every relevant metric exceeded the person who did get the promotion), it's virtually impossible to demonstrate how you were more qualified for the promotion than the person that did get it. That's an extremely difficult thing to prove when you often don't even know the exhaustive list of things that were considered to inform the promotion decision.

 

[clintar]

More Playstation Exclusives?

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

"those who are female and those who identify as female"
So they also discriminate men ? That's pretty even if you ask me.
These cases are more often than not, disgruntled workers who probably would end like this in every job... I know too many of these people

Don't be a piece of shit.

 

[squarealex]

Majo alleges that she was ignored by a manager who only responded to men, was passed over for promotions and was terminated this year after submitting a gender bias complaint to the company.

to a work culture predominated by men.

Video Game

Computer programmer

Developer

No shit sherlock

 

[StreetsofBeige]

My wife used to work for Sony Mobile. She was once dragged into a case where her work colleague (who was a bitch that everyone hated) was suing the company for racial discrimination, claiming that one of the bosses who wasn't even involved in the decision to fire her was nasty to her because she's black.

My wife, who is also black, was dragged into a room to defend this her colleague's case and accusations against this boss, and my wife simply sat there and told the truth that the guy was one of the nicest people she'd ever worked with and he'd never made my wife feel uncomfortable or marginalized because of her skin colour.

Essentially, disgruntled employees who are usually fired because they themselves are the problem, create lawsuits primarily for the purpose of retribution.

Similar to bad tenants who you cant get rid of, there's people who know what they are doing and are "professional tenants", or people on the firing line pulling strings to get pay offs with bogus claims before being axed.

It sucks, but it's one of those things companies (and landlords) got to put up with. Scummy people.

 

[Derktron]

Aaand this is why Jimbo, Phil and Bowser should stay quiet when talking about Activision.

This

 

[rofif]

Don't be a piece of shit.

yeah I know... I am just against constant cancel culture as soon as anyone says he was wronged.
It's not for us to prove.
For all I know, she might've been treated like shit even by her direct boss.
I work in a huge company and me or neither of my bosses have ever even seen the company ceo or board members lol.

 

[IntentionalPun]

it's virtually impossible to demonstrate how you were more qualified for the promotion than the person that did get it

Which is why there is such a big focus on coming up with "measurable" performance indicators, because it shouldn't be virtually impossible for a business to show data on why someone got a promotion over someone else.

In the end there will always be subjectivity and bias, but this is why companies spend so much time/effort/money coming up with better methodologies to "measure" performance. Because it helps remove bias. And it's not just a cover your ass routine at good companies; they want to remove bias, because... well... data driven personnel decisions also tend to be better decisions lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This whole issue of "being passed over for promotions" is so much utter creamy horseshit, because it denies the fundamental reality that we are not and absolutely can not be the ultimate evaluators of our own workplace performance... we're way too fucking biased.

Think about it... anyone evaluating their own performance in any context will rate themselves higher than they are actually performing. It's basic human psychology. We estimate our own performance higher than it is in reality because we tend to exaggerate where we are doing well and all but ignore where we're fucking up.

It's why self-appraisal systems are so common in companies because they try to force employees to confront their weaknesses and place focus on areas of growth.

So whenever, anyone is claiming to have been passed over for a promotion because of anything related to anything other than performance, I would always call BS, because, without direct proof (that is never available -- because you'd need to demonstrate directly that your performance in every relevant metric exceeded the person who did get the promotion), it's virtually impossible to demonstrate how you were more qualified for the promotion than the person that did get it. That's an extremely difficult thing to prove when you often don't even know the exhaustive list of things that were considered to inform the promotion decision.

The best IMO are a combo of self and peer evaluations, and of course your boss chiming in too with the most important feedback. Its one big combination of feedback which the boss and you chat about.

I've had companies where people rate you back. Some were you pick, some are your boss secretly picks. Its better if the boss picks random people you work with because at the other place people picked their best work buddies so it's pointless.

And unless you got scumbag backstabbers I've never worked at a place where peers are purposely trying to get you fired giving you 1 or 2 stars out of 5. People act professional enough not to be an asshole. And a good boss (like I've had even who tells you its directional and if you get one bad feedback out of 10 raters, it's not a big deal at all and its all taken in context).

 

[nemiroff]

The patriarchy is real. Why do we in 2021 still have discriminatory words like "menu"? I mean, just imagine if it was called "womenu" instead, how would it make you feel?

 

[Tripolygon]

And I read her allegations above, it is jumbled mess of IdPol and bullshit. Especially the part about CA of all places ... "treatment of women has been especially intense in California"

Yawn.

Live the by IdPol, die by the loonies and their IdPol. The beast shalt never be satiated. I said what I said, deal with it.

You still don't make sense. Who is living by identity politics and dying by identity politics? You are saying a lot of nothing. She was an IT specialist at Sony for 6 years and in that 6 years feels she experienced discrimination based on her gender and claimes she was fired because she complained about it to the higher-ups and she has a new job now. Again how is her experience bullshit? All places have all kinds of problems in terms of employment. I was passed over for promotion when my boss had pretty much guaranteed me that he was looking at me to take over his position as he was being moved to a regional management position. Someone I was just training for about a month was hired for the position.

 

[chonga]

“Majo alleges that she was ignored by a manager who only responded to men”

Oh give me a break

The fact the fullness of that says they won't be in a room alone with a female it reads more like someone who is scared as fuck that they'll have a HR complaint made against them and by having a the door open they know they won't get blackmailed with fake accusations...

 

[Bragr]

You still don't make sense. Who is living by identity politics and dying by identity politics? You are saying a lot of nothing. She was an IT specialist at Sony for 6 years and in that 6 years feels she experienced discrimination based on her gender and claimes she was fired because she complained about it to the higher-ups and she has a new job now. Again how is her experience bullshit? All places have all kinds of problems in terms of employment. I was passed over for promotion when my boss had pretty much guaranteed me that he was looking at me to take over his position as he was being moved to a regional management position. Someone I was just training for about a month was hired for the position.

Likely the trainee was better for the job, and seriously, If you are as confrontational and bitchy as this at your workplace, then no wonder you didn't get the job. Nobody wants to work with people who find problems where there are none.

 

[Kacho]

The fact the fullness of that says they won't be in a room alone with a female it reads more like someone who is scared as fuck that they'll have a HR complaint made against them and by having a the door open they know they won't get blackmailed with fake accusations...

Yeah I've dealt with this firsthand. We had a male supervisor who spoke with a female employee about her performance and she started spreading all sorts of rumors to other employees. After that we would have multiple people in the room until she was eventually let go.

 

[recursive]

Bobby Kotick and Activision are going to re-consider their relationships with Sony now

Not before double speak Phil.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Likely the trainee was better for the job, and seriously, If you are as confrontational and bitchy as this at your workplace, then no wonder you didn't get the job. Nobody wants to work with people who find problems where there are none.

It really is that simple.

Our culture is rapidly regressing into narcissism and feelings over facts and logic.

 

[Tripolygon]

Likely the trainee was better for the job, and seriously, If you are as confrontational and bitchy as this at your workplace, then no wonder you didn't get the job. Nobody wants to work with people who find problems where there are none.

Lol. I quite, they begged me to come back with higher pay, I came back parleyed that for a better job and position at a different company. So yea you are dead wrong. I was pretty good at my job and they knew that. Oh, and the company is defunct now. Nice try though.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The fact the fullness of that says they won't be in a room alone with a female it reads more like someone who is scared as fuck that they'll have a HR complaint made against them and by having a the door open they know they won't get blackmailed with fake accusations...

Ive never seen that kind of in person situation. But it shows that manager is on thin ice being watched by corporate. Or, he might purposely be asking for it as protection against asshole subordinates looking to cash in on bogus claims. What a fucked up situation.

It's kind of like when your boss suspects something fishy and wants to help you out (or you do it yourself) and copy him on emails to protect your ass.

I've seen it myself. You send out emails to others asking them to do shit and there's always some laggards who never do it until you bug the guy 3 times.

But then one day you say fuck it and the starting email Ill copy the VP on the email. And look at that. Every asshole responds back pronto.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Averages never tell the whole story, you need to look at hours worked, level of experience, and negotiation practices because averages are biased when many factors are taken into consideration when being paid.

It is a known fact that men fight harder to negotiate salary than women do and its part of the reason they get paid more.

The gender wage gap has been debunked a long time ago.

 

[Portugeezer]

"including those who are female and those who identify as female"

Soo... trans women aren't women?

 

[Bragr]

dang, I thought Sony already bends over backwards for identity politics.

It doesn't matter. You can give everyone as much equality as you want, but the problem is not identity politics or equality, the problem is that some people tie in identity and gender into every problem they have, because it's the most effective way to bring people down. This will always happen, even at the best companies.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The fact the fullness of that says they won't be in a room alone with a female it reads more like someone who is scared as fuck that they'll have a HR complaint made against them and by having a the door open they know they won't get blackmailed with fake accusations...

This is... 100% rational behavior, considering the current climate.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is... 100% rational behavior, considering the current climate.

I just checked Yu Sugita's linkedin for curiosity and looks like a lot of his career was overseas, but now in the US.

Perhaps the reason why guys like him want a man there to hear things is because his English language skills arent great and he's afraid he might say something stupid by accident. So if you got another employee there, that person can be the key as to whether he meant discriminatory remarks or not.

 

[Goalus]

She seems to be a strong, independent woman.

 

[Bragr]

Lol. I quite, they begged me to come back with higher pay, I came back parleyed that for a better job and position at a different company. So yea you are dead wrong. I was pretty good at my job and they knew that. Oh, and the company is defunct now. Nice try though.

So you quit because the trainee got the job? jesus christ

 

[Tripolygon]

So you quit because the trainee got the job? jesus christ

I quit because my time was worth more. Use your brain.

 

[Jennings]

I sincerely hope she gets everything that's owed to her.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Which is why there is such a big focus on coming up with "measurable" performance indicators, because it shouldn't be virtually impossible for a business to show data on why someone got a promotion over someone else.

In the end there will always be subjectivity and bias, but this is why companies spend so much time/effort/money coming up with better methodologies to "measure" performance. Because it helps remove bias. And it's not just a cover your ass routine at good companies; they want to remove bias, because... well... data driven personnel decisions also tend to be better decisions lol

I don't disagree at all, but most companies don't have this level of data collection and analysis on every employee, and practically a LOT of employees would feel extremely uncomfortable with their performance being purely assessed on this basis; despite the fact that it's largely the most meritocratic method for assessing performance.

 

[TGO]

 

[Interfectum]

 

[KingGhidorah]

"including those who are female and those who identify as female"

Soo... trans women aren't women?

they never are, and never will be

 

[Lognor]

So which is it Bernd Lauert ? Evil Sony hates women or stupid Sony is so woke and SJWs? You are speaking out for your hate against Sony from both sides of your mouth.

?
By posting a news article? You felt so triggered that you had to respond and question the op's motive for posting a news article? Wut

 

[HTK]

 

[Bragr]

I quit because my time was worth more. Use your brain.

Use my brain? I'm sorry, I can't use magic to figure why you quit.

 

[Tripolygon]

Use my brain? I'm sorry, I can't use magic to figure why you quit.

Using your brain to think before you type is not magic. I was due for a promotion to a higher position. Why would someone want a higher position if not for better pay and benefits? With your level of experience, companies will pay you as much as you know your time is worth. Think, it is not hard.

 

[Zarak]

This shit will never end until people start fighting back against it. There won't be any companies or men left standing by the time this is over.

 

[Captain Toad]

This shit will never end until people start fighting back against it.

Which shit? I feel like both sides think you're meaning them - "companies don't treat women fair" and "modern culture presumes men, white people and straight people are automatically in the wrong".

 

[{insert code here}]

 

[Butch_0451]

The lawsuit is 40 pages long so I’m assuming a lot of what we don’t know about the story is there. But there’s a number of questions that need to be addressed. How long has she been working there? What’s her seniority level? How conscientious and competent is she? Was she working the bare minimum or was she going above and beyond? What is the career structure like in that department? Was the former employer on a budget freeze due to COVID (my brother was due for a promotion before COVID and had to wait a good year and a half to get it because his employer froze their budgets ? How many other people got promoted during that time? Is she being honest with herself or is she being entitled? If she still feels discriminated against after answering these questions honestly then she had the right to send a complaint.

She states that her losing job has something to do with the closure of an internal department and claims that she is not affiliated with it. Something is strange about that statement.

 

[Bragr]

Using your brain to think before you type is not magic. I was due for a promotion to a higher position. Why would someone want a higher position if not for better pay and benefits? With your level of experience, companies will pay you as much as you know your time is worth. Think, it is not hard.

You just talked about how some guy got the job because they didn't want to you. And that you quit, but then they hired you again. How am I supposed to make sense of what you are saying?

You come across as the sort of person who would sue a brick for gender discrimination if you stubbed your toe on it.

 

[Boss Mog]

Stopped reading at "identfy".

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Bobby Kotick and Activision are going to re-consider their relationships with Sony now

v

 

[THEAP99]

I knew Jim Ryan's words last week would likely bite him. Who's next?

 

[Edgelord79]

I'm shocked... shocked I tell you.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Thus why I tell everyone to have union jobs where your pay can't be fucked over

True story.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

So which one of the big 3 do we think is going to get hit with the next round of sexual harassment allegations? I mean they've basically set themselves up for it at this point.

Not sexual harassment, but jeez, hasn't even been a day.

 

[K2D]

"Sony discriminates against female employees, including those who are female and those who identify as female, in compensation and promotion and subjects them to a work culture predominated by men."

"Sony discriminates against female employees, including those who are female and those who identify as female, in compensation and promotion and subjects them to a work culture predominated by men."

Ironically, this proves that Sony accepts transgender people as female since they treat them as badly as women.

So Sony is both a bigoted company as well as an inclusive one.

This is little more than a meme thread by now..?

 

[chonga]

The lawsuit is 40 pages long so I’m assuming a lot of what we don’t know about the story is there. But there’s a number of questions that need to be addressed. How long has she been working there? What’s her seniority level? How conscientious and competent is she? Was she working the bare minimum or was she going above and beyond? What is the career structure like in that department? Was the former employer on a budget freeze due to COVID (my brother was due for a promotion before COVID and had to wait a good year and a half to get it because his employer froze their budgets ? How many other people got promoted during that time? Is she being honest with herself or is she being entitled? If she still feels discriminated against after answering these questions honestly then she had the right to send a complaint.

She states that her losing job has something to do with the closure of an internal department and claims that she is not affiliated with it. Something is strange about that statement.

The document is about 39 pages of waffle and just 1 page of actual 'facts', but there's nothing really damning or evidential besides the naming of one individual who would not shut the door if they only had 1 women in their office. And that's irrelevant to the claims about unequal pay and missed promotions.

The only specific claim to that relates to anecdotal evidence that the only out-of-cycle promotions (meaning not following an annual review) seen by the person were male. But it does not give numbers and it does not give the make up departments in question. In other words if only 2 people were promoted out-of-cycle and those departments had 90% males you can't really draw the conclusion that promotions are only given to men.

The only claims specifically about herself are that she wasn't told how she could get a promotion and questions about it were brushed off and that she'd been working there 6 years and was never promoted. But linking that gender is going to be a tough ask. Just because you're female does not entitle you to a promotion. Lest we forget the employment world is a hierarchical pyramid. Not everyone can be a manager or in a senior position. Most people never will be. There simply isn't the numbers of roles around.

 

[Goalus]

they never are, and never will be

It's ma'am!

 

[nush]

I just checked Yu Sugita's linkedin for curiosity and looks like a lot of his career was overseas, but now in the US.

Fore sure, it's an inter personal work culture clash to the extreme rather than a specific systemic discrimination within Sony. Or maybe it is, Japanese company gonna Japanese company.

Following on from that.

How to get promoted, step one "Git Gud".

"Women more emotional and sharing problems"? No lies detected. Men tend to shut up and put up and internalize problems. But the quoted here "She has a lot going on at home" is the worst reading of that comment, it could equally mean they recognize she's having problems and are cutting her some slack.

StreetsofBeige and I know Linkedin is the place to go to see who you are dealing with.

so this manager took the time to endorse her, not so sexist looking now.

But when you see what posts she likes, it's textbook workplace feminist.

You get the point.