Support NeoGAF

[Celcius]

Oled TVs are very popular nowadays and I admit they look fantastic, but I hear that they aren’t great for 30 fps gaming due to stutter and judder at lower frame rates.

Therefore, is there a general consensus on the best TV these days if the majority of your time will be spent playing 30 fps games and watching anime? I’m assuming it would be lcd based?

 

[Ulysses 31]

You can still go with OLED if you're willing to use (low) motion interpolation during gaming.

Otherwise modern Samsung TVs have game motion plus to reduce 30 fps stutter a lot.

 

[RoboFu]

 

[UnsanctionedBuffoonery]

Have some dignity man, boycot 30 fps games instead of trying to cope with a TV that reduces the eye sore that is 30 fps.

 

[ViolentP]

Let me go check

 

[The Cockatrice]

jesus christ...

 

[Shh]

You get "stutter and judder" because you are playing at 30 fps.

 

[lh032]

probably the one with lowest ms? im no TV expert though

 

[01011001]

You get "stutter and judder" because you are playing at 30 fps.

exactly.

running a 30FPS game on a 60HZ TV/Signal leads to the so called Double Image effect

that can look stuttery. also 30fps just sucks in general and will always either look blurry or stuttery depending on the game

on a 120hz TV you can run an Xbox at 120hz and force 30fps into that 120hz output, which will smooth over frames (see the 1/4 Hz image above) but that will of course look blurred out in motion.
on PS4/5 you can't force 120hz, so on those consoles you would need to deal with the 1/2 Hz look, or you find a TV that can force its panel to run at 120hz even if the input is 60Hz... I would assume that could lead to artifacts tho... but I never tried that

 

[Jibran#one]

exactly.

running a 30FPS game on a 60HZ TV/Signal leads to the so called Double Image effect

that can look stuttery. also 30fps just sucks in general and will always either look blurry or stuttery depending on the game

on a 120hz TV you can run an Xbox at 120hz and force 30fps into that 120hz output, which will smooth over frames (see the 1/4 Hz image above) but that will of course look blurred out in motion.
on PS4/5 you can't force 120hz, so on those consoles you would need to deal with the 1/2 Hz look, or you find a TV that can force its panel to run at 120hz even if the input is 60Hz... I would assume that could lead to artifacts tho... but I never tried that

So if I have a series x and I get an oled and force it to 120 hz ill get reduced stutter and judder ??

 

[Shh]

So if I have a series x and I get an oled and force it to 120 hz ill get reduced stutter and judder ??

You can't force a game to 120 Hz that doesn't support it. There are features on newer gaming TVs to reduce the appearance of stuttering and whatnot. Low response time is also important for games in general, especially FPS games.

 

[01011001]

So if I have a series x and I get an oled and force it to 120 hz ill get reduced stutter and judder ??

it will look marginally smoother. it's like a hint of motion blur added to the image.
30fps will always look somewhat juddery tho no matter what.

 

[01011001]

You can't force a game to 120 Hz that doesn't support it.

you can force 120hz on Xbox in every game, not on PS5.

 

[Shh]

you can force 120hz on Xbox in every game, not on PS5.

Well that's nifty.

 

[01011001]

Well that's nifty.

it is indeed. helped smooth out Elden Ring completely thanks to low framerate compensation at 120hz with VRR.

it also reduces input lag, not as much as running a game actually at 120fps of course but the higher output reduces the TV's latency

 

[8BiTw0LF]

 

[Celcius]

You guys, 30 fps is very common for console gaming. I’m not crazy!

 

[Shh]

it is indeed. helped smooth out Elden Ring completely thanks to low framerate compensation at 120hz with VRR.

it also reduces input lag, not as much as running a game actually at 120fps of course but the higher output reduces the TV's latency

My TV does to games what it does to movies and shows with that motion blur type effect and it helps a lot. That sounds very cool, though. I have a 4K 120 Hz TV. It's going to be cool trying out this 120 Hz mode. Might pick up an Xbox for that forced Hz feature too.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

You guys, 30 fps is very common for console gaming. I’m not crazy!

I would not know that I have a ps5

 

[jaysius]

To also add to what everyone is saying, if you turn on things to reduce stutter/judder you're going to add input delay/input lag by adding extra image processing.

 

[Celcius]

^^yep that makes sense. I’d like to avoid stuff like black frame insertion too

 

[Xeaker]

Oled TVs are very popular nowadays and I admit they look fantastic, but I hear that they aren’t great for 30 fps gaming due to stutter and judder at lower frame rates.

Therefore, is there a general consensus on the best TV these days if the majority of your time will be spent playing 30 fps games and watching anime? I’m assuming it would be lcd based?

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[skit_data]

I have actually noticed 30fps and 24fps content feeling noticably more juddery since I got an OLED compared to my old LCD screen. Never heard of it before but there may be something to it.

 

[Fredrik]

probably the one with lowest ms? im no TV expert though

Isn’t it the opposite? As in OLEDs are so fast that they show how shit 30fps really is. My LCD is kinda slow, 30fps looks bad but I don’t have to add some motion blur thing to cope if the game is slow.

 

[I Master l]

Sony X90K

 

[The_Mike]

So many posts in and people can't see OP is trolling.

you can force 120hz on Xbox in every game, not on PS5.

You sure about that? I keep reading mixed stuff like this, and when I read about it the games needs to have some Microsoft tweaks like BC games.

Nice if true, and why the hell does no one talk about it.

 

[anthony2690]

 

[KormaChameleon]

Ditch the 30fps. Come over to the master race and play at 100+!

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Oled TVs are very popular nowadays and I admit they look fantastic, but I hear that they aren’t great for 30 fps gaming due to stutter and judder at lower frame rates.

Therefore, is there a general consensus on the best TV these days if the majority of your time will be spent playing 30 fps games and watching anime? I’m assuming it would be lcd based?

Joke post? Get a damn OLED and stop reading pointless metrics used to make YouTube clickbait videos.

LG C1 is very good.

 

[rofif]

Oled TVs are very popular nowadays and I admit they look fantastic, but I hear that they aren’t great for 30 fps gaming due to stutter and judder at lower frame rates.

Therefore, is there a general consensus on the best TV these days if the majority of your time will be spent playing 30 fps games and watching anime? I’m assuming it would be lcd based?

It's amazing. OK for 30fps.
24 can be troublesome with some panning shots in movies but there are modes to help wit that

 

[Kuranghi]

Not something you can buy new, my 2016 Sony ZD9 makes 24fps (for films/TV) and 30fps look as good as it can but even then there will be some stutter past a certain speed of movement. That's with a crazy high response time that causes the pixels to blur together more than most VA-panel LCD TVs.

My flatmates 2018 Sony XF90 is a nice middle ground between my TV and an OLED so 60fps looks bit clearer. The X90K, the 2022 equivalent is better in some ways but worse in others than the 2018 version.

Personally I wouldn't touch many modern LCDs for gaming except that Sony I mentioned above. LG LCDs all have low contrast panels regardless of other spec and Samsung have been rubbish for gaming since 2020, for different reasons. Almost every set that's good for gaming in 2022 is an OLED and thus subpar for 30fps gaming compared to LCD.

If you don't mind 2nd hand then PM me and I can suggest select models from 2016-2019, but would be a miracle if you can get new boxed stock of any of them. It's not many TVs, like maybe 6 in total and all Sony except for 1 or 2 Samsungsfrom 2018 & 2019.

 

[Kuranghi]

You can always motion interpolate a bit to make movies and TV less stuttery on an OLED but you don't have that option for gaming due to lag. 24hz stutter is 1000% something most consumers hate, I sell TVs for a living and if I turned motion interpolation off I wouldn't sell any OLEDs ever.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

My TV does to games what it does to movies and shows with that motion blur type effect and it helps a lot. That sounds very cool, though. I have a 4K 120 Hz TV. It's going to be cool trying out this 120 Hz mode. Might pick up an Xbox for that forced Hz feature too.

You sure about that? I keep reading mixed stuff like this, and when I read about it the games needs to have some Microsoft tweaks like BC games.

Nice if true, and why the hell does no one talk about it.

Just so you guys don't misunderstand, it doesn't change the framerate to 120 fps, it's just literally the same as setting your refresh rate in windows; your tv will be in 120hz mode system wide, if the game has an fps cap it will still be capped at that fps, be it 30, 40 or 60.
Having the tv at its native hz massively improves input lag though.

 

[Ulysses 31]

^^yep that makes sense. I’d like to avoid stuff like black frame insertion too

I'd say even with the added latency, it's still very responsive on OLEDs.

 

[tommib]

You can always motion interpolate a bit to make movies and TV less stuttery on an OLED but you don't have that option for gaming due to lag. 24hz stutter is 1000% something most consumers hate, I sell TVs for a living and if I turned motion interpolation off I wouldn't sell any OLEDs ever.

So you’re telling me that an overwhelming amount of people prefer to watch Casablanca with motionflow on? We live in a nightmare.

 

[dotnotbot]

Nothing to recommend honestly. I wouldn't give up OLED for LCD just because the latter will be a bit more tolerable due to slower reponse time. On the other hand none of the OLEDs offer 120 Hz BFI anymore (newest LG Display panels were "downgraded" to 60 Hz BFI for some reason and QD-OLED doesn't offer 120 Hz BFI either, maybe it will change next year) and BFI would darken up the image too much to be useful with HDR, so that was only a viable solution if you're willing to give up HDR. And by solution I mean 30 FPS seemed to be slightly better, 120 Hz BFI wasn't a miracle, just a little help.
You could try Samsung S95B (QD-OLED) which lets you turn on motion interpolation in game mode with low enough input lag, but I'm not sure if this interpolation is any good (I doubt it has no visible artifacts).

 

[Shh]

So you’re telling me that an overwhelming amount of people prefer to watch Casablanca with motionflow on? We live in a nightmare.

24 fps is a nightmare. It’s an old standard that won’t die. Being an elitist about it doesn’t make it not outdated. Perhaps we never should have gone past 480p. Or VHS. All this new clarity and sharpness just takes away from the original experience. Might as well only watch it on an old black and white tube TV.

 

[dotnotbot]

So you’re telling me that an overwhelming amount of people prefer to watch Casablanca with motionflow on?

Yes

We live in a nightmare.

Yes

 

[TheGecko]

Top of the line plasma that has low input lag is your god tier of 30 fps modern titles. A plague tale running on Series S on my 48 inch panasonic plasma is a littler softer but matches and has superior 30fps motion than my series X on my C7 OLED

I'd say the colors are in fact richer and better on the plasma.

 

[Beer Baelly]

 

[Celcius]

To address a few points mentioned, I’m not trolling or joking lol. I always prefer maximum eye candy and native 4K when possible over 60 fps so I always choose high fidelity mode in games, like FF7R or GT7 for example.

I’d like to avoid having to use one set of settings for gaming and then another set of settings for movies if possible… basically just set it and forget it.

Sounds like basically oled has become the standard though (for example my switch and phone are oled) and I guess it just exposes more flaws in the source material than lcd’s did. I don’t notice stutter on my phone or switch at all but I hear it’s more noticeable on TVs due to the larger size.

For those of you that watch a lot of anime, do you also just use oled now?

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I have actually noticed 30fps and 24fps content feeling noticably more juddery since I got an OLED compared to my old LCD screen. Never heard of it before but there may be something to it.

You can always motion interpolate a bit to make movies and TV less stuttery on an OLED but you don't have that option for gaming due to lag. 24hz stutter is 1000% something most consumers hate, I sell TVs for a living and if I turned motion interpolation off I wouldn't sell any OLEDs ever.

Eeeeeyup.

Seeing people hail OLED as the end-all, be-all of screens is a doozy.
It’s fantastic for movies… IF you turn on some slight motion interpolation, let’s say, 2-3 on your average LG.
Problem is, even that slight motion interpolation is terrible for B&W films and for almost any kind of 2D animation. For that kind of content your best bet is to turn off everything and suffer some stutter. It’s acceptable most of the time, but panning shots will be pure torture. The high contrast of OLED with old B&W content isn’t a match made in heaven, let’s leave it at that. Try watching a documentary showing reels from the first half of the 20th century on an OLED and tell me if you can even tell what you’re looking at.

But LED has been relentlessly chasing that low latency since OLED became affordable to the plebs, so while inherently less bad, stutter on midrange LED and above is not far from OLED’s. It’s a bit better for 30fps games, at least.

There are exactly zero OLEDs, and maybe zero TVs altogether, on display in stores running anything that isn’t highly curated demo images with motion interpolation clearly on. Stores stopped running actual movies and cable channels on their display TVs years ago. And you all know why. Hint: it’s not out of fear of burn-in.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Obviously:

Amazon.com: Portable Projector Screen Tripod Stand - Mobile Projection Screen , Lightweight Carry & Durable Easy Pull Assemble System for Schools Meeting Conference Indoor Outdoor Use, 50 Inch - Pyle PRJTP52 : Electronics

Amazon.com: Portable Projector Screen Tripod Stand - Mobile Projection Screen , Lightweight Carry & Durable Easy Pull Assemble System for Schools Meeting Conference Indoor Outdoor Use, 50 Inch - Pyle PRJTP52 : Electronics

www.amazon.com

Let's get this slideshow started.

 

[tommib]

Eeeeeyup.

Seeing people hail OLED as the end-all, be-all of screens is a doozy.
It’s fantastic for movies… IF you turn on some slight motion interpolation, let’s say, 2-3 on your average LG.
Problem is, even that slight motion interpolation is terrible for B&W films and for almost any kind of 2D animation. For that kind of content your best bet is to turn off everything and suffer some stutter. It’s acceptable most of the time, but panning shots will be pure torture. The high contrast of OLED with old B&W content isn’t a match made in heaven, let’s leave it at that. Try watching a documentary showing reels from the first half of the 20th century on an OLED and tell me if you can even tell what you’re looking at.

But LED has been relentlessly chasing that low latency since OLED became affordable to the plebs, so while inherently less bad, stutter on midrange LED and above is not far from OLED’s. It’s a bit better for 30fps games, at least.

There are exactly zero OLEDs, and maybe zero TVs altogether, on display in stores running anything that isn’t highly curated demo images with motion interpolation clearly on. Stores stopped running actual movies and cable channels on their display TVs years ago. And you all know why. Hint: it’s not out of fear of burn-in.

It’s precisely because of this I’m keeping my Sony KD-55xg8505. More than half of my blu-ray collection are films from the 30s, 40s and 50s. I’m dreading investing on an OLED and hating the look of these films in it. Panning shots look normal and natural without any processing. The idea of having to tweak motion settings to get closer to the original look puts me off.

 

[SlimySnake]

Don’t buy a bad TV just because if this issue. 30 fps is something you will get used to in 15 minutes max and the picture quality of OLED is simply unmatched.

Good oled TVs like the LGCX have other features that the mid end TV’s simply either skimp on or phone in. 4 full hdmi 2.1 slots vs 1-2. Vrr, gsync, freesync support. Amazing input lag compared to LCDs that is even better than advertised.

I’ve played Horizon, miles, ratchet, guardians, matrix, cyberpunk pc at 30 fps. They feel fine after an initial adjustment period. The 40 fps vrr modes are amazing and are quickly becoming a standard so stick to oled and move away from trashy lcd TVs. Please.

 

[intbal]

So many posts in and people can't see OP is trolling.


You sure about that? I keep reading mixed stuff like this, and when I read about it the games needs to have some Microsoft tweaks like BC games.

Nice if true, and why the hell does no one talk about it.

If you've never watched this video, it does a decent job of explaining it.



I have a 120hz monitor. I always use 120hz mode on my Xbox consoles.
The biggest benefits, actually, are for the Xbox One S (although I never play on that any more). One S had very few games that ran over 30fps, but plenty that fell in the 20s. With screen updates occuring more quickly after a long frame, the visual stuttering is reduced. It's also beneficial for Cryengine games (as the video points out, but also later titles like Kingdom Come: Delieverance with the 31fps cap), as well as oddball examples like Max Payne 3 (33fps cap when played through backwards compatibility) and Condemned: Criminal Origins (45fps).

 

[Celcius]

Don’t buy a bad TV just because if this issue. 30 fps is something you will get used to in 15 minutes max and the picture quality of OLED is simply unmatched.

Good oled TVs like the LGCX have other features that the mid end TV’s simply either skimp on or phone in. 4 full hdmi 2.1 slots vs 1-2. Vrr, gsync, freesync support. Amazing input lag compared to LCDs that is even better than advertised.

I’ve played Horizon, miles, ratchet, guardians, matrix, cyberpunk pc at 30 fps. They feel fine after an initial adjustment period. The 40 fps vrr modes are amazing and are quickly becoming a standard so stick to oled and move away from trashy lcd TVs. Please.

How bad is the auto-dimming?

 

[SlimySnake]

How bad is the auto-dimming?

I don’t notice it in games or movies. House of dragon beach scene was really bad in hdr but i had auto dimming turned off anyway.

 

[Kuranghi]

There are exactly zero OLEDs, and maybe zero TVs altogether, on display in stores running anything that isn’t highly curated demo images with motion interpolation clearly on. Stores stopped running actual movies and cable channels on their display TVs years ago. And you all know why. Hint: it’s not out of fear of burn-in.

Here's some insider knowledge for you: Most TV demos are 60fps these days to avoid having to use motion interpolation all together, then even if they are lower fps it will be 30 and they'll apply just enough MCFI to smooth it out and remove most stutter. Some of the really old LG OLED demos are quite stuttery, or if you look at Sony OLED demos they have really slow camera pans or none at all and hardly much motion or are 60fps in the first place.