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Big DECK, finally taking handhelds out of the GHETTO

sunnysideup

Banned
I have owned almost every handheld in existence. Almost all of them ended up collecting dust after a while. I thought it was because i did not like the form factor. The small screen, often lesser controls. In the past that might have been so, but not today with switch, vita. I actually like lying in bed, or my hammock playing games. I have come to the conclusion it is the actual games that are the problem. The handheld games.

historically games on handheld systems can be summed up in a few categories.

*Time wasters, games made to be played in short burst, waiting on the bus. I never had a use for this. And i guess mobiles have taken this segment.

*Quirky weird games. Games with made for a weird controls schemes and what not. These used to be big on handhelds. But it think the appeal is lessened somewhat when there are so many games of these sort developed by indies and on mobile. I liked it as a novelty. These days there are so many games of this sort, i rather just go for quality.

* Compromised console/pc ports. I can play these, but i refuse to buy a severely compromised, lesser version of a game for 40, 50 euros. Especially if i own it on an other proper platform.

* Traditional games made bespoke for handheld systems, like god of war games, super mario 3d land. These games are often good. And worth playing. But at the same time, i rather be playing the games made for console/pc they are often made by better teams, bigger budgets etc.

Traditionally there have been very few genuinely great games on handhelds. There are a lot of games that are good enough. But true greatness. Few and far between. There is almost always a better game to be played on console or pc. The only reason to play the game on the handheld, is because its handheld.

Enter the switch which started this console/handheld hybrid. I thought this would change things. Botw was great. Probably the greatest handheld game ever made. But ultimately, the switch just ended up being your typical nintendo system. While i understand the appeal as a parent. As a gamer it does not offer a lot, and suffers the same issues all handhelds do. Nintendo games are often polished, but more of the same that i have played 100 times before. I dont need to play another mario kart game.

Generally speaking i don't have a lot of time for games. When i do i want to play the games i want to play, and not because they are on a handheld.

The steam deck solves all of this. It has an infinite steam library. I can play the games i want to play, i don't have to compromise on game quality. I only have to buy the game i want to play once on steam, and choose how i want to play it. I can start to play a game on my htpc with a big screen, and then i can continue to play with my deck in my bed. I can do the monotonous boring parts of a game like taking out bandit camps when others are watching tv.

Same games, quick resume and cloud saves changes everything in the handheld space. Steam deck and its successors are going to finally take the handheld out of the ghetto.

I think people underestimate the massive appeal here.
 
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I don't understand your reasoning...As a gamer, the Switch offers a lot. It has more games than the PS4, can be played on the TV and portable, and offers a different experience than PS/XBox, which I find rather redundant. I guess it's also cuz I like Nintendo games. Playing Skyward Sword now. I don't ever get sick of Mario Kart with friends. And playing that and other games on Switch with my nephew is far more enjoyable to me than watching him play Fortnite endlessly lol
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Same games, quick resume and cloud saves changes everything in the hand held space. Steam deck and its successors are going to finally take the handheld out of the ghetto.

See Nintendo fans, you were in ghetto all along!

aB3ngSI.gif
 
That's a lot of sensible (ish) looking text for a thread with a title that is ... Less sensible.

Also, haven't we had this topic ten times already?

On topic I guess: deck looks awesome, will probably sell a few but less than the switch due to branding and it being more niche. Whether it sells enough for Value to continue in the market is the real question.
 
I think people underestimate the massive appeal here.

I 100% understand your arguments and that this device has a massive appeal to you, but I don't know if it will have a mass appeal for the same reasons. But if I were to guess, you're in a minority and will belong to a group of niche users.

People seem to be perfectly fine playing lots and lots of games on handheld systems, for reasons you don't agree with, not least on the Nintendo Switch. You may not be very interested in it (I'm not either), but that thing sure has a truly massive appeal.
 

Fredrik

Member
It's truly a revolutionary product, people just don't get it, even outlets like DF are stuck in the console mindset and they don't understand and can't process how much better & different this is. Ah well, time reveals all.
Yeah, even John who’s a big handheld supporter started talking about PSVita as an example that people don’t actually want to play stationary games on a handheld.

The difference here is that PSVita, PSP, even Switch, got separate handheld versions, often made with a lower budget, instead of the stationary games people wanted.

With Steam Deck you don’t need to rebuy a game just to play it portable, you don’t have to start over a game you’ve already played 100 hours stationary, and the games aren’t made with a lower budget. It’s literally the same games you already own and play on PC, you just get another device to play them on. It’s Play Anywhere, for real.
 
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Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Yeah, even John who’s a big handheld supporter started talking about PSVita as an example that people don’t actually want to play stationary games on a handheld.

The difference here is that PSVita, PSP, even Switch, got separate handheld versions, often made with a lower budget, instead of the stationary games people wanted.

With Steam Deck you don’t need to rebuy a game just to play it portable, you don’t have to start over a game you’ve already played 100 hours stationary, and the games aren’t made with a lower budget. It’s literally the same games you already own and play on PC, you just get another device to play them on. It’s Play Anywhere, for real.

Don't most pc gamers stay mostly within 5 meters of their pc?
 

JumpMan1981

Banned
I have owned almost every handheld in existence. Almost all of them ended up collecting dust after a while. I thought it was because i did not like the form factor. The small screen, often lesser controls. In the past that might have been so, but not today with switch, vita. I actually like lying in bed, or my hammock playing games. I have come to the conclusion it is the actual games that are the problem. The handheld games.

historically games on handheld systems can be summed up in a few categories.

*Time wasters, games made to be played in short burst, waiting on the bus. I never had a use for this. And i guess mobiles have taken this segment.

*Quirky weird games. Games with made for a weird controls schemes and what not. These used to be big on handhelds. But it think the appeal is lessened somewhat when there are so many games of these sort developed by indies and on mobile. I liked it as a novelty. These days there are so many games of this sort, i rather just go for quality.

* Compromised console/pc ports. I can play these, but i refuse to buy a severely compromised, lesser version of a game for 40, 50 euros. Especially if i own it on an other proper platform.

* Traditional games made bespoke for handheld systems, like god of war games, super mario 3d land. These games are often good. And worth playing. But at the same time, i rather be playing the games made for console/pc they are often made by better teams, bigger budgets etc.

Traditionally there have been very few genuinely great games on handhelds. There are a lot of games that are good enough. But true greatness. Few and far between. There is almost always a better game to be played on console or pc. The only reason to play the game on the handheld, is because its handheld.

Enter the switch which started this console/handheld hybrid. I thought this would change things. Botw was great. Probably the greatest handheld game ever made. But ultimately, the switch just ended up being your typical nintendo system. While i understand the appeal as a parent. As a gamer it does not offer a lot, and suffers the same issues all handhelds do. Nintendo games are often polished, but more of the same that i have played 100 times before. I dont need to play another mario kart game.

Generally speaking i don't have a lot of time for games. When i do i want to play the games i want to play, and not because they are on a handheld.

The steam deck solves all of this. It has an infinite steam library. I can play the games i want to play, i don't have to compromise on game quality. I only have to buy the game i want to play once on steam, and choose how i want to play it. I can start to play a game on my htpc with a big screen, and then i can continue to play with my deck in my bed. I can do the monotonous boring parts of a game like taking out bandit camps when others are watching tv.

Same games, quick resume and cloud saves changes everything in the handheld space. Steam deck and its successors are going to finally take the handheld out of the ghetto.

I think people underestimate the massive appeal here.

I think I disagree.

For a handheld to really take off in terms of units sold etc what is needed is bespoke software that suits the platform.

I already see too many people make comparisons to current gen consoles and high end PCs.
So if you want to play the best version of a game then this isn't it.

This is the "trick" that Nintendo does. They have several high profile games that are only available on their platform.
For the everyday person who can't be bothered with emulation etc there is only one way to play Mario Kart, Zelda, etc.
I'm not going to play Witcher 3 on Switch. If I wanted to play Breath of the Wild though then I need to own a Switch.

The other thing is that Switch is in many ways marketed as a toy. Even for adults it's marketed as a quirky, stress relieving, playful experience (basically still a toy).

If someone is serious about playing big budget games in the best possible way then offering them a small screen with those big chunky controllers and saying "so you can clear bandit camps when others are watching TV" is not going to work very well.

Nintendo's secret seems to be a balance between marketing, exclusive games and walking a tightrope between casual players and Gamers.
 

Fredrik

Member
Don't most pc gamers stay mostly within 5 meters of their pc?
Huh? Maybe I’m missing a meme but most PC gamers stay within 1 meter from their PCs. But now you can turn off your PC and go play the same games wherever you want, same license, same save, same mods, then when you’re back at your sli 4090 rig you can just continue playing as you did before. It’s Steam Play Anywhere.
 

junguler

Banned
i almost think they knew SteamPal was the better name but decided steam deck for people to meme it to hell.
come to think of it almost all codenames were better than the final names when it comes to gaming hardware in recent years, scorpio, scarlet, neo, nx list goes on.
 

KAL2006

Banned
The biggest feature of Deck by far is access to 1000s of games on the Steam library. Basically it will have the biggest catalogue of games in comparison to other handhelds. To many that's nothing special as they only play new released games although new released games will still be playable on it (there will always be games getting released that don't require a powerful PC to run it even years from now).

As someone who has hacked a Switch and loved playing Retroarch on it. Or someone who enjoyed PS1 backwards compatibility on the PSP. Who someone who loved all the indie games releasing on Switch this device will be really appealing. However the problem lies in the fact that someone who already owns a Switch (so has access to many of these indie games that releases on PC) as well as a PS5 (have access to AAA games as well as indie games) the Deck may not be worth the amount of money. However I do feel there will be a future for the Deck maybe not right away maybe when prices come down in 2 or 3 years.
 
This is the "trick" that Nintendo does. They have several high profile games that are only available on their platform.
For the everyday person who can't be bothered with emulation etc there is only one way to play Mario Kart, Zelda, etc.
I'm not going to play Witcher 3 on Switch. If I wanted to play Breath of the Wild though then I need to own a Switch.
Steam, however, does not do "exclusive games". What it does do, is "exclusive features". The Deck may not have any "killer apps" in the form of games, but its featureset is plenty killer on its own. Remote Play and Remote Play Together, being able to invite someone else who doesn't even have a Steam account to play along with you, is pretty good. Suspend/Resume is a great feature, and the rumored "Cloud Suspend/Resume" would be extremely neat. Then there's stuff like using the Deck as a second screen while playing on an external monitor or TV. Hell you could plug the Deck directly into a TV that way - with the USB cable placement it'd be both the console and the controller, and any additional controllers could connect to it wirelessly for instant couch co-op.

There's many things it can do, really.
And you may say that a lot of those things aren't even specific to the Deck - a lot of them will just be in the SteamOS that the Deck runs, that any competitor will be able to copy and any user will be able to just install onto their PC.
To which I will say - that's the entire point.
 

brian0057

Banned
It's truly a revolutionary product
If you can call a PC that can only game and do nothing else "revolutionary", then I guess it is.
And don't give me the "Oh, you can install Windows and do everything a PC does" pablum. You're lying to yourself if you think you'll use this thing for anything other than gaming.
 
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If you can call a PC that can only game and do nothing else "revolutionary", then I guess it is.
And don't give me the "Oh, you can install Windows and do everything a PC does" pablum. You're lying to yourself if you think you'll use this thing for anything other than gaming.
You don't need to install Windows to do everything a PC does. I know if I got this thing (which is contingent on it becoming available in Russia), I'd definitely use it as a desktop at least most of the time, and relegate my current tablet hybrid to a portable art station and web browser.
 

DeceptiveAlarm

Gold Member
Not looking forward the size of the text on this thing, as absolutely nothing will be optimized for handheld display.
That's my issue with it. I have trouble with switch. Could you imagine trying to play WoW or something with this? I could see me doing dailies or something while I watch TV. I would need a magnifying glass to look in my bags or read txt.
 

cireza

Banned
I have trouble with switch.
Me too. This is really a big issue to me, to the point I have to the select my games depending on how big the text is. Not that I can't read it when it is small, but it requires more efforts and eventually causes eyestrain.

I played Brigandine on Switch Lite, and I love the game. But the text is sometime so small... I can't play it anymore this way.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think its a good device with relatively niche appeal; It kinda falls between two stools insofar as its not so kid-friendly as a console but less attractive than a notebook or tablet to the adult/lifestyle market.
 

zcaa0g

Banned
I don't understand your reasoning...As a gamer, the Switch offers a lot. It has more games than the PS4, can be played on the TV and portable, and offers a different experience than PS/XBox, which I find rather redundant. I guess it's also cuz I like Nintendo games. Playing Skyward Sword now. I don't ever get sick of Mario Kart with friends. And playing that and other games on Switch with my nephew is far more enjoyable to me than watching him play Fortnite endlessly lol

It doesn't have more "good" games than the PS4.
 
Wasn't this also said by a Sony exec about the Vita?

How did that work out?

Probably better than this will.
It was first said about PSP and delivered. The Vita is a shame, because it was awesome hardware with a great launch library, but was given up on extremely early. Those memory cards definitely did not help.

Just like PS5/Xbox exist completely seperate from Nintendo's consoles, so will this along with Switch. I doubt either is directly affected much by the other.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I think it depends on 2 things. I'm very inpressed with the Switch Deck but the two main points I'm concerned with are:

Marketing
I'm not a fan of the name, it's not very catchy but it's not insultingly bad.
This thing needs to be marketing as a very powerful handheld gaming device that can play every PC game. State what Steam is because the casual gamer may not know.
I hope they don't go with " A handheld device that can play Steam games" no go easier than that even.

functionality
Every game thats on this just needs to work iwthout the usual PC bullshit, well of course not every game but the current big hitters certainly need to work. They that casual market otherwise it WILL be a niche product.

I'm also not a big fan of the fact that the base unit is borderline useless especially for PC games due to its low storage space.
Unless you're playing the system for indie titles, you're gonna need an SD card.
Now in fairness you could argue the Switch is the same but the difference is games are optimised for the Switch. When the Witcher 3 was ported to the Switch it had a vast reduction of file-size and many other games are the same. You get far more bang for your buck on the Switch.
 

Coolwhhip

Neophyte
Huh? Maybe I’m missing a meme but most PC gamers stay within 1 meter from their PCs. But now you can turn off your PC and go play the same games wherever you want, same license, same save, same mods, then when you’re back at your sli 4090 rig you can just continue playing as you did before. It’s Steam Play Anywhere.

It was a joke about pc gamers never leaving their home.
 
Marketing
...
They really don't need more marketing at the moment. As it is, they'll be stuck manufacturing units to fulfill preorders for the next two years.
What they need, is to get enough units into the hands of enough people, to get proper real-world impressions that will sway potential 3rd-party manufacturing partners towards making their own copies of the thing. Then they can start marketing.
 

Fredrik

Member
It was a joke about pc gamers never leaving their home.
Missed that but it’s the same for any gamer in that case. Well Nintendo gamers might leave their home I guess, and soon PC gamers too, maybe even Xbox gamers depending on if MS realize that this thing could run their 1st party games. Sony is getting there too. Steam Deck might actually give all of us some much needed sunlight!
Hugh Jackman Reaction GIF
 

Astral Dog

Member
Naaah i always loved gaming on the go, Castlevania, Mega Man, Metroid, Zelda (specially Minish Cap and Oracles) , TWEWY simply awesome 🤟

Those games may not have played like their older brothers, but are outstanding on their own. Also so many amazing games not even been made without portables 😳
 

HTK

Banned
With cloud gaming maturing day by day and 5G continues to expand, every cell phone will turn into a handheld with a controller attachment. So I really don't see the need for dedicated handheld hardware. It might please some in the short term but it'll die like other attempts.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Cloud saves is not system wide. it has to be implemented per game and there are games that do not support it than I would like. "looking at you DS3"

Again I feel the settigns will have to be compromised too much for most core gamers but maybe it wiull be okay for the majority. but also I think for those people it will be too complicated to fiddle with lowering settings.. so Im not sold on it being a big deal...... yet.
 
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