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Books Jihadist read after deciding to fight in Syria

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RiZ III

Member
Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/jihadist-radicalisation-islam-for-dummies_b_5697160.html
Can you guess which books the wannabe jihadists Yusuf Sarwar and Mohammed Ahmed ordered online from Amazon before they set out from Birmingham to fight in Syria last May? A copy of Milestones by the Egyptian Islamist Sayyid Qutb? No. How about Messages to the World: the Statements of Osama Bin Laden? Guess again. Wait, The Anarchist Cookbook, right? Wrong.

Sarwar and Ahmed, both of whom pleaded guilty to terrorism offenses last month, purchased Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies. You could not ask for better evidence to bolster the argument that the 1,400-year-old Islamic faith has little to do with the modern jihadist movement. The swivel-eyed young men who take sadistic pleasure in bombings and beheadings may try to justify their violence with recourse to religious rhetoric - think the killers of Lee Rigby screaming "Allahu Akbar" at their trial; think of Islamic State beheading the photojournalist James Foley as part of its "holy war" - but religious fervour isn't what motivates most of them.

In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5's behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, "far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could . . . be regarded as religious novices." The analysts concluded that "a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation", the newspaper said.

For more evidence, read the books of the forensic psychiatrist and former CIA officer Marc Sageman; the political scientist Robert Pape; the international relations scholar Rik Coolsaet; the Islamism expert Olivier Roy; the anthropologist Scott Atran. They have all studied the lives and backgrounds of hundreds of gun-toting, bomb-throwing jihadists and they all agree that Islam isn't to blame for the behaviour of such men (and, yes, they usually are men).

Instead they point to other drivers of radicalisation: moral outrage, disaffection, peer pressure, the search for a new identity, for a sense of belonging and purpose. As Atran pointed out in testimony to the US Senate in March 2010: ". . . what inspires the most lethal terrorists in the world today is not so much the Quran or religious teachings as a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends, and through friends, eternal respect and remembrance in the wider world". He described wannabe jihadists as "bored, under­employed, overqualified and underwhelmed" young men for whom "jihad is an egalitarian, equal-opportunity employer . . . thrilling, glorious and cool".

Or, as Chris Morris, the writer and director of the 2010 black comedy Four Lions - which satirised the ignorance, incompetence and sheer banality of British Muslim jihadists - once put it: "Terrorism is about ideology, but it's also about berks."

Berks, not martyrs. "Pathetic figures", to quote the former MI6 chief Richard Dearlove, not holy warriors. If we want to tackle jihadism, we need to stop exaggerating the threat these young men pose and giving them the oxygen of publicity they crave, and start highlighting how so many of them lead decidedly un-Islamic lives.

When he lived in the Philippines in the 1990s, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, described as "the principal architect" of the 11 September attacks by the 9/11 Commission, once flew a helicopter past a girlfriend's office building with a banner saying "I love you". His nephew Ramzi Yousef, sentenced to life in prison for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, also had a girlfriend and, like his uncle, was often spotted in Manila's red-light district. The FBI agent who hunted Yousef said that he "hid behind a cloak of Islam". Eyewitness accounts suggest the 9/11 hijackers were visiting bars and strip clubs in Florida and Las Vegas in the run-up to the attacks. The Spanish neighbours of Hamid Ahmidan, convicted for his role in the Madrid train bombings of 2004, remember him "zooming by on a motorcycle with his long-haired girlfriend, a Spanish woman with a taste for revealing outfits", according to press reports.

Religion does, of course, play a role: in particular, a perverted and politicised form of Islam acts as an "emotional vehicle" (to quote Atran), as a means of articulating anger and mobilising masses in the Muslim-majority world. But to pretend that the danger comes only from the devout could cost lives. Whatever the Daily Mail or Michael Gove might have you believe, long beards and flowing robes aren't indicators of radicalisation; ultra-conservative or reactionary views don't automatically lead to violent acts. Muslims aren't all Islamists, Islamists aren't all jihadists and jihadists aren't all devout. To claim otherwise isn't only factually inaccurate; it could be fatal.

Consider Four Lions. Omar is the nice, clean-shaven, thoroughly modern ringleader of a gang of wannabe suicide bombers; he reads Disney stories to his son, sings Toploader's "Dancing in the Moonlight" with his mates and is pretty uninterested in Muslim beliefs or practices. Meanwhile, his brother Ahmed is a religious fundamentalist, a big-bearded Salafist who can't bear to make eye contact with women and thinks laughter is un-Islamic but who, crucially, has no time for violence or jihad. The police raid the home of peaceful Ahmed, rather than Omar, allowing Omar to escape and launch an attack on . . . a branch of Boots.

Back in the real world, as would-be jihadists buy books such as Islam for Dummies, ministers and security chiefs should venture online and order DVDs of Four Lions. They might learn a thing or two.

Basically pointing out what mainline Muslims have been saying for years, these jihadists don't seem to know much anything of their own faith. Interesting to see it quoted from terrorism experts themselves. The fact that so many of these guys are driven by lack of opportunity, boredom, and anger seems to be recognized by Saudi Arabia as pointed by Robert Lacey in his book "Inside the Kingdom" (great book btw). Over there they have rehabilitation programs for these guys after they are arrested where they teach them actual Islam, educate them, and try to get them reintegrated into society. The head of the program says in the book "Everyone has a good thing inside him. These young people have been sick. We view their problem as a virus in the brain." Now, I don't think we can really do that here or in the UK, but the point is that the real problem seems to be recognized by everyone who has looked into the cause of this phenomenon.
 
but this doesn't make any sense, why would i kill myself in a suicide attack even though i do not even believing in what they believe? hanging in strip clubs? fucking beautiful spanish girlfirends like WTF is going on? yeah these are the ones who attacked on 9/11.
 
Great article. Reminds me to rewatch Four Lions again.

At the end of the day, everyone wants to feel like they have some purpose and be a part of something greater. Its a shame they had to choose this awful path.

Also didnt know about that rehab program in Saudi. Pretty cool.
 
but this doesn't make any sense, why would i kill myself in a suicide attack even though i do not even believing in what they believe? hanging in strip clubs? fucking beautiful spanish girlfirends like WTF is going on? yeah these are the ones who attacked on 9/11.

Clearly the religion is still involved to a degree, but the people involved are generally ignorant of the religion. The ideas they believe in are different from the ideas actually promoted by much of the religion's texts, but they believe the ideas are supported by those texts, and find them generally attractive.

Vice did a good doc on this as well, titled Terrorist University, that demonstrated how many small children are manipulated into being suicide bombers by being told that 1. the blast shoots outward, and thus won't hurt them, and 2. if it somehow did hurt them, they'd be handsomely rewarded in the afterlife.

Neither claim is true, but the children couldn't possibly know that.
 
but this doesn't make any sense, why would i kill myself in a suicide attack even though i do not even believing in what they believe? hanging in strip clubs? fucking beautiful spanish girlfirends like WTF is going on? yeah these are the ones who attacked on 9/11.

Because the men are fucked up before they become muslims or brainwashed by 'hitler level inspiring' clerics who are even more fucked up if they were lost and found their perceived faith
 

PJV3

Member
It's meant to be a good earner joining ISIS, ransoms and looting etc.
Spout a little nonsense about Islam and fill your boots.
 
Clearly the religion is still involved to a degree, but the people involved are generally ignorant of the religion. The ideas they believe in are different from the ideas actually promoted by much of the religion's texts, but they believe the ideas are supported by those texts, and find them generally attractive.

Vice did a good doc on this as well, titled Terrorist University, that demonstrated how many small children are manipulated into being suicide bombers by being told that 1. the blast shoots outward, and thus won't hurt them, and 2. if it somehow did hurt them, they'd be handsomely rewarded in the afterlife.

Neither claim is true, but the children couldn't possibly know that.

this still doesn't convince me, if i am giving my life away i need a pretty god damn reason. being told to do it because "blah blah blah" and so forth is not a reason. i will atleast research a little bit into what i am throwing my life away for. i think its more of a brain sickness and delusion of some sort, maybe thats why i can't understand it.


i was raised in a muslim family and i know the majority of the islamic teaching but i have yet in encounter anything about killing innocent civilian by suicide bombing or mass murdering of people because they don't believe in what i believe, you can easily find documentaries of the prophet Moh'd life and how he dealt with people. its in the Quran that religion should never be forced upon someone let alone be killed because of it.
 

Gotchaye

Member
but this doesn't make any sense, why would i kill myself in a suicide attack even though i do not even believing in what they believe? hanging in strip clubs? fucking beautiful spanish girlfirends like WTF is going on? yeah these are the ones who attacked on 9/11.

You're misunderstanding. They do believe in something, but their beliefs don't look like what you'd expect them to be if they were derived from careful study of the Koran. They fixate on particular interpretations of a small number of passages, often even receiving all of this information secondhand, because they're after a sense of purpose, and they're not inclined to critically examine these attitudes that they find psychologically very satisfying. The religion is boiled down to a couple all-important principles, and everything else is seen as fine as long as someone is sufficiently zealous in defense of whatever the religion is supposedly all about. You see this kind of thing all the time, although obviously it usually doesn't lead to murder.
 
this still doesn't convince me, if i am giving my life away i need a pretty god damn reason. being told to do it because "blah blah blah" and so forth is not a reason. i will atleast research a little bit into what i am throwing my life away for. i think its more of a brain sickness and delusion of some sort, maybe thats why i can't understand it.


i was raised in a muslim family and i know the majority of the islamic teaching but i have yet in encounter anything about killing innocent civilian by suicide bombing or mass murdering of people because they don't believe in what i believe, you can easily find documentaries of the prophet Moh'd life and how he dealt with people. its in the Quran that religion should never be forced upon someone let alone be killed because of it.

If a person is frustrated enough, he would do whatever he wants to vent.

Why do people commit other acts that jeopardize their lives, even if there is no rationalizing their action? A bored person, living a cushy life, feels that he or his group is being oppressed so instead of taking the slow, less violent approach of organizing peaceful protests, running for government to improve the lives of his people, etc., decides to join a violent group and carry out carnage. It is the classic example of a child, screaming and crying that they want what they want and they want it now, rather than later. A kid throwing a tantrum in the market because his mom doesn't want to buy him a toy.
 
Completely anecdotally I have noticed that most people from my neighborhood who have joined jihad groups or become radicalized has been either gang members or otherwise people who has violent tendencies.

They trade one setting for another at face level but still has the same tendencies of violence but just in another context.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5697744
The East London Mosque's Salman Farsi said that many of those who were drawn to extreme Islam were "thugs" who wanted to give their love of violence and intimidation a higher purpose. "In my experience of coming into contact with these troubled individuals, who have come to Islam while they were in prison or through unsavoury characters, they have always held on to part of their previous identity, their ignorance, their predisposition for violence," Farsi said. "They haven't let go.

"They use the religion to legitimise that anger and violence into hatred for individuals who are not now conforming with their new way of thinking, their new ideology."

This quote describes it well.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
I've always thought this, most terrorists are just ego-centric "thrill-seekers" seeking some sort of higher purpose to what was originally a "boring" life wrought with failure and possibly an inability to fit in to western society.
 
If a person is frustrated enough, he would do whatever he wants to vent.

Why do people commit other acts that jeopardize their lives, even if there is no rationalizing their action? A bored person, living a cushy life, feels that he or his group is being oppressed so instead of taking the slow, less violent approach of organizing peaceful protests, running for government to improve the lives of his people, etc., decides to join a violent group and carry out carnage. It is the classic example of a child, screaming and crying that they want what they want and they want it now, rather than later. A kid throwing a tantrum in the market because his mom doesn't want to buy him a toy.

but we, the people who hold the name of islam get the consequences, i went recently to the US embassy and the security checks are simply insane. getting checked at least two times very thoroughly. they don't even let a sim card in! a sim card! waited for hours upon hours. and don't get me started on how my sister was treated there when she went to the US in 2007(for education purposes), some people will run the opposite way when they see her in public places because she is wearing a hijab.
 
These two guys were not serious Islamists therefore none of ISIS are really serious Islamists. Great logic.

Please, that's hardly what this article is saying. It's specifically about Western transplants to ISIS, not the 'locally sourced'. For them, the religious jihad is an outlet for even more powerful urges/motivations. Just as how some people join the Army out of more perverse motivations than public service or economic dead end.
 

alekth

Member
This is really hardly a surprise, moral vehicle + lack of literacy seems like a much more fruitful bed for radicalization than analyzing text by religiously literate people.
When religious wars were all the rage in Europe, most people couldn't even read and for some the stuff was in Latin, which they couldn't understand anyway.
 
Rubber dinghy rapids, bro.
As funny is this movie is (its really funny) though the ending is even with their incompetence they end up killing innocent people.

It doesn't matter these guys aren't straight a students, idiots can commit murder

Also why do jihadists put on that English accent. They're not all English but they are forming this really weird accent and cadence that's distinctly English.
 
but this doesn't make any sense, why would i kill myself in a suicide attack even though i do not even believing in what they believe? hanging in strip clubs? fucking beautiful spanish girlfirends like WTF is going on? yeah these are the ones who attacked on 9/11.

They're basically the Muslim equivalent of Christian Young Earth Creationists and similar fundamentalist groups, many of whom believe it's OK to eat shellfish and wear clothing of blended fabrics, but being homosexual is a big no no. Basically they have a bare bones grasp of their religion, but they haven't really taken the time to really read the book for themselves or study what it says beyond the echo chamber of their fellow believers and those who manipulate them. I mean, Westboro Baptist Church consider themselves the only true Christians and do what they do.
 

Mariolee

Member
but this doesn't make any sense, why would i kill myself in a suicide attack even though i do not even believing in what they believe? hanging in strip clubs? fucking beautiful spanish girlfirends like WTF is going on? yeah these are the ones who attacked on 9/11.

Based on the article, it's because it makes you feel like you're in some amazing action movie where you'll go down as a legend after you die. They most likely do it for the thrill, not whatever they believe in.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
There is nothing surprising here. You'd find the same with American right-wingers and the likes; they probably don't have a very deep understand of laws and the constitutions, just some talking points. But you could expect that as soon as they would join some of the extremists groups, they would read "X book for dummies", because they want a basic understanding, and they are dummies.

People don't join cults after reaching Xenu LV 9, they join with almost no knowledge of whatever the cult preaches. Why it should be any different in this case, or in any way surprising to such highly educated officials working for intelligence services is a bit puzzling/scary.

As funny is this movie is (its really funny) though the ending is even with their incompetence they end up killing innocent people.

It doesn't matter these guys aren't straight a students, idiots can commit murder

Also why do jihadists put on that English accent. They're not all English but they are forming this really weird accent and cadence that's distinctly English.

Because most are in contact with British folks and material, not Americans. Pakistanis have British-like accent.
 
Based on the article, it's because it makes you feel like you're in some amazing action movie where you'll go down as a legend after you die. They most likely do it for the thrill, not whatever they believe in.

Strengthening that feeling is also the massive propaganda the machine that these groups (mainly IS) have.

Former suicide bombers are revered in their circles and some strive for that 'prestige' and that name in the community. Going from being an unemployed loser to having respect and feeling part of something can move alot of people.
 

Paskil

Member
You see the same thing from violent, ultra conservative Christians. They latch onto a few phrases and use it as justification to bomb abortion clinics or to kill doctors. Even many of the non violent ultra conservatives latch onto a few things and use it as justification to try to ban things counter to "Christian" beliefs.
 
I've always thought this, most terrorists are just ego-centric "thrill-seekers" seeking some sort of higher purpose to what was originally a "boring" life wrought with failure and possibly an inability to fit in to western society.

Yup. This sounds just like the profile of American mass shooters; young, dumb men looking for infamy.
 
Instead they point to other drivers of radicalisation: moral outrage, disaffection, peer pressure, the search for a new identity, for a sense of belonging and purpose. As Atran pointed out in testimony to the US Senate in March 2010: ". . . what inspires the most lethal terrorists in the world today is not so much the Quran or religious teachings as a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends, and through friends, eternal respect and remembrance in the wider world". He described wannabe jihadists as "bored, under­employed, overqualified and underwhelmed" young men for whom "jihad is an egalitarian, equal-opportunity employer . . . thrilling, glorious and cool".

I have a hard time thinking these two were overqualified for anything...
 
Strengthening that feeling is also the massive propaganda the machine that these groups (mainly IS) have.

Former suicide bombers are revered in their circles and some strive for that 'prestige' and that name in the community. Going from being an unemployed loser to having respect and feeling part of something can move alot of people.
And this is why Neonazi groups, cults, Anarchists, and even gangs are able to still recruit people who may not fully agree with their ethics or beliefs. A sense of belonging and brotherhood can mess some people up enough to do just about anything.
 
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