Support NeoGAF

[Darsxx82]

Because their VRS software solution is better than RDNA2 VRS. They did a paper showing performance and quality were both better (notably quality) than using hardware VRS. Basically the advantage of their software VRS was that they could customize much more. We had a thread about it. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/soft...ading-in-call-of-duty-modern-warfare.1591769/

VRS COD software is even compatible with VRS tier 2 hardware. The difference is that in COD it is the studio that has to optimize for the game and its circumstances while VRS tier 2 hardware is independent of the graphics engine and games and does not require extra work from the developer. Apart from that thread is compared with VRS tier 1 that has / had worse results both in IQ and performance gain.

Well drops are drops whatever the cause. We'll see if they patch those but some of us already predicted games reliant of I/O performance would logically run better on PS5.

LOL
Some of you also predicted the same thing in other cases with the same situation and that were later solved. Example of Control....

 

[onQ123]

Interesting, seems Sony cutting the silicone and putting the budget elsewhere instead of a box checking exercise was the boss move after all.

But everyone isn't able to come up with a software solution so we will have some Xbox Series games using VRR while it's not in use on PS5.

 

[Physiognomonics]

The video has not included the parts where PS5 drops to 0fps. This is indicated by VGtech itself. Including them would be nonsense first because the origin is clear, and second because then it would totally distort the results and would have to include a 0fps in the PS5 minimums in the stats and he dont do it.

VGTech has also removed from his data the big ~20fps stutters seen on Xbox. It was probably the right thing to do as those will probably be patched.

 

[Shmunter]

But everyone isn't able to come up with a software solution so we will have some Xbox Series games using VRR while it's not in use on PS5.

Haven’t seen too many use it even now. The IQ loss vs the performance gain may be undesirable to most?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Interesting, seems Sony cutting the silicone and putting the budget elsewhere instead of a box checking exercise was the boss move after all.

The Doom Eternal implementation at least was simply terrible.

That thread compares software VRS with hardware VRS1 (not 2) and doesn't even compare performance. Also please tell how Doom Eternal has a bad implementation (without zooming 400% into specific parts of cherry picked screenshots).

 

[onQ123]

Haven’t seen too many use it even now. The IQ loss vs the performance gain may be undesirable to most?

It will get better over time I guess.

 

[Shmunter]

That thread compares software VRS with hardware VRS1 (not 2) and doesn't even compare performance. Also please tell how Doom Eternal has a bad implementation (without zooming 400% into specific parts of cherry picked screenshots).

There were non zoomed shots displaying a disparity. Let’s not go down that path here.

The iq hit was there, pretending otherwise is pointless.

 

[Md Ray]

Series S clearly needs some more compromise on the visuals or the resolution side in 120Hz mode. Those dips into 70-80fps would be quite noticeable even on a variable refresh rate/FreeSync display.

 

[Riky]

Because their VRS software solution is better than RDNA2 VRS. They did a paper showing performance and quality were both better (notably quality) than using hardware VRS. Basically the advantage of their software VRS was that they could customize much more. We had a thread about it. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/soft...ading-in-call-of-duty-modern-warfare.1591769/

Look at the date of the paper, Tier 2 RDNA2 VRS didn't exist then.
They are comparing to Tier 1 and The Coalition did a massive article on how Tier 2 is far superior.

Moving Gears to Tier 2 Variable Rate Shading - DirectX Developer Blog

The team at The Coalition haven’t stopped innovating since bringing Tier 1 VRS to Gears Tactics, and have brought Tier 2 VRS support to both Gears 5 and Gears Tactics. The team saw similarly large perf gains from VRS Tier 2 –

devblogs.microsoft.com

 

[Riky]

There were non zoomed shots displaying a disparity. Let’s not go down that path here.

The iq hit was there, pretending otherwise is pointless.

Not according to Digital Foundry who said it was imperceptible during gameplay.

 

[Shmunter]

Look at the date of the paper, Tier 2 RDNA2 VRS didn't exist then.
They are comparing to Tier 1 and The Coalition did a massive article on how Tier 2 is far superior.

Moving Gears to Tier 2 Variable Rate Shading - DirectX Developer Blog

The team at The Coalition haven’t stopped innovating since bringing Tier 1 VRS to Gears Tactics, and have brought Tier 2 VRS support to both Gears 5 and Gears Tactics. The team saw similarly large perf gains from VRS Tier 2 –

devblogs.microsoft.com

That’s just marketing fluff surely.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

They didn't drop the resolution on PS5 either so where is the extra optimization on PS5?

Ps5 was locked 60 for the most part. It isn't extra optimization, it's more optimized.

 

[Riky]

That’s just marketing fluff surely.

Try reading it.

 

[Shmunter]

Not according to Digital Foundry who said it was imperceptible during gameplay.

Neogaf perceived it

 

[Riky]

Neogaf perceived it

I'll take their word over yours thanks.

 

[Lysandros]

As usual fps average don't tell the whole story. Look at the frame-time data (posted just above) and screen-tearing data, here (PS5 vs XSX vs XSS). Perfectly synced frames (without screen tearing or drop): 99.41% vs 96.88%

8.33ms

47702 (99.41%)

46266 (96.88%)

19163 (52.64%)

And well the 120hz mode is there on XSS for the sake of it. It's reaching 120hz only half of the time.

I agree on it being the more relevant metric, especially for the perception of smoothness.

 

[onQ123]

Ps5 was locked 60 for the most part. It isn't extra optimization, it's more optimized.

There is nothing that points to more optimization on PS5 other than people not willing to accept that the game runs better on PS5.

 

[DenchDeckard]

We can only speculate, but one reason could be that PS4 was the lead platform last gen so cross gen games might run relatively better on PS.

This also means that cross gen games are built for a 18 CU system, which means games scale better with the profile of the PS5.

this could be true. It wouldn't surprise me if these 120Hz modes favored the PS5 due to its clock speed as well.

 

[Riky]

The video has not included the parts where PS5 drops to 0fps. This is indicated by VGtech itself. Including them would be nonsense first because the origin is clear, and second because then it would totally distort the results and would have to include a 0fps in the PS5 minimums in the stats and he dont do it.

He should have just left everything in as that would then reflect what performance people are actually going to get.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

It doesn’t look very good on Series X, just about everything looks low res/quality. The fog on the second level was really ass. Not sure this texture streaming tech is working.

 

[Md Ray]

Nice win for the PS5 on this one, Sonys marketing money putting in work for the Playstation versions. Joke!

Jokes aside, PS5 takes this one. Better performance overall.

Still don't understand how the xbox isnt favoring these last gen engines like it was stated it would. :/

Depends. Not all last-gen engines are the same, and not every next-gen engine is going to be the same, as in, favor one system over the other. We will still see cases where Series X will be slower in some and PS5 slower in others.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Not according to Digital Foundry who said it was imperceptible during gameplay.

imperceptible is a subjective adjective and indeed during gameplay even a big resolution difference wouldn't be noticeable by many.

But there is a sharpness cost for RDNA2 VRS because it is a trade-off between sharpness and performance. Hardware VRS used by MS is not a smart reconstruction tech. It is "I give you a slight framerate increase against a big texture resolution loss"
Here is an example taken from Doom Eternal, with VRS Tiers 2 on XSX:

 

[Riky]

imperceptible is a subjective adjective and indeed during gameplay even a big resolution difference wouldn't be noticeable by many.

But there is a sharpness cost for RDNA2 VRS because it is a trade-off between sharpness and performance. Hardware VRS used by MS is not a smart reconstruction tech. It is "I give you a slight framerate increase against a big texture resolution loss"
Here is an example taken from Doom Eternal, with VRS Tiers 2 on XSX:

Zoomed in, as I said imperceptible during gameplay and worth the resolution increase. Developer said themselves they wish every machine had it and they would know.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Zoomed in, as I said imperceptible during gameplay and worth the resolution increase. Developer said themselves they wish every machine had it and they would know.

It is not zoomed in here. This is at native resolution (if seen on a native resolution on your end).

 

[Riky]

It is not zoomed in here. This is at native resolution.

You've had to find a tiny piece of floor, but due to the nature of VRS if you walked up to that area it would be fully shaded as it changes frame by frame. So it's imperceptible during gameplay as DF said, the whole point is to save performance on areas the player isn't looking at.

 

[Darsxx82]

imperceptible is a subjective adjective and indeed during gameplay even a big resolution difference wouldn't be noticeable by many.

But there is a sharpness cost for RDNA2 VRS because it is a trade-off between sharpness and performance. Hardware VRS used by MS is not a smart reconstruction tech. It is "I give you a slight framerate increase against a big texture resolution loss"
Here is an example taken from Doom Eternal, with VRS Tiers 2 on XSX:

Doom Eternal is VRS tier1 and and yet it was hardly noticeable even at 400% zoom.

Then, NO, VRS does not affect all texturing, that is uncertain. VRS affects those textures and elements that tend to stay out of the user's attention in darker backgrounds and side areas. This is how it works and its objective to save by reducing detail \ pixels of areas where the player does not focus their attention.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

There were non zoomed shots displaying a disparity. Let’s not go down that path here.

The iq hit was there, pretending otherwise is pointless.

Prove it.

 

[Shmunter]

Prove it.

Why? Don’t you believe me or something?!??

 

[Physiognomonics]

Doom Eternal is VRS tier1 and and yet it was hardly noticeable even at 400% zoom.

Then, NO, VRS does not affect all texturing, that is uncertain. VRS affects those textures and elements that tend to stay out of the user's attention in darker backgrounds and side areas. This is how it works and its objective to save by reducing detail \ pixels of areas where the player does not focus their attention.

It's VRS Tier 2 on Xbox Series according to Digital Foundry

It's also interesting to note that Xbox Series consoles use the hardware-based tier two VRS feature of the RDNA2 hardware

 

[Cherrypepsi]

if mulitplayer has the same performance, series x players have a competitive advantage over series s players

 

[ParaSeoul]

Did you misunderstand my post? I really think Vgtech is very meticulous and good at his job. I was reffering to Tom's earlier similar mistake when he missed PS5 version's bug.

Sorry it came across as sarcastic in text and I didn't see the DF video

 

[Mr Moose]

Prove it.

On the ground/walls it's noticeable, but we're going off-topic. All versions have VRS in this game so it's irrelevant.

 

[Md Ray]

It is not zoomed in here. This is at native resolution (if seen on a native resolution on your end).

Prove it.

Don't want to go off-topic any further, but you asked for proof. Here's the timestamped vid:




Not zoomed in.

In gif form, if you don't want to give a click (it's pretty noticeable):

 

[Shmunter]

You've had to find a tiny piece of floor, but due to the nature of VRS if you walked up to that area it would be fully shaded as it changes frame by frame. So it's imperceptible during gameplay as DF said, the whole point is to save performance on areas the player isn't looking at.

Is this zoomed in?

As shitty as this Google image is, there is one piece of it that is the shittiest…look at the hand on Xbox compared to PS5 and PC either side. Now let’s not derail this thread any further, the point is; the software vrs in COD Vanguard is superb….

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Is this zoomed in?

As shitty as this Google image is, there is one piece of it that is the shittiest…look at the hand on Xbox compared to PS5 and PC either side. Now let’s not derail this thread any further, the point is; the software vrs in COD Vanguard is superb….

That's due to false contrast from the guy who captured the video (I assume incompetence, not malice). Has been debunked before.

 

[Shmunter]

That's due to false contrast from the guy who captured the video (I assume incompetence, not malice). Has been debunked before.

Prove it

 

[Riky]

Is this zoomed in?

As shitty as this Google image is, there is one piece of it that is the shittiest…look at the hand on Xbox compared to PS5 and PC either side. Now let’s not derail this thread any further, the point is; the software vrs in COD Vanguard is superb….

Where is the source, pretty sure that was debunked as some fanboy account.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Prove it

Watch the video (if you can find it, dude has literally 10 subscribers). The entire Xbox footage has washed out colors.

 

[Riky]

Watch the video (if you can find it, dude has literally 10 subscribers). The entire Xbox footage has washed out colors.

I think the last person who used that shot was banned.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Pretty impressive performance on all consoles. They just need to address the frame rate drops mentioned in DF article on Series X and Series S versions as well as address the issue on PS5 version where specific instances shows the game coming to a complete halt for 2-3 seconds(0 FPS)

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

 

[Shmunter]

Watch the video (if you can find it, dude has literally 10 subscribers). The entire Xbox footage has washed out colors.

Colours and contrast look just like the pc version. Think your nose is growing

 

[DenchDeckard]

Oh what's going on in here then!

ahhhh, ok!

 

[shenmue mugen]

The premium current gen consoles are so close in performance that how could anyone be disappointed?

 

[Matsuchezz]

Is the game any good? i mean the SP it has been a while since i played cod.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

There is nothing that points to more optimization on PS5 other than people not willing to accept that the game runs better on PS5.

It's quite literally the definition of more optimized. It's not arguable. Don't be silly.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Colours and contrast look just like the pc version. Think your nose is growing

PC has higher contrast. Look at the parts in Shadow, and yes contrast gives you sharpness

 

[onQ123]

It's quite literally the definition of more optimized. It's not arguable. Don't be silly.

SMH

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

SMH

You said it runs better on ps5. That's more optimized. You can't argue different. They could of spent 5 minutes on ps5 and 6 months on Xbox but the results show ps5 is more optimized. You just have some war garbage in your head so you can't see straight.

 

[onQ123]

You said it runs better on ps5. That's more optimized. You can't argue different. They could of spent 5 minutes on ps5 and 6 months on Xbox but the results show ps5 is more optimized. You just have some war garbage in your head so you can't see straight.

SMH