can indies stop with the roguelite obsession already?

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Roguelikes are a unique and fun genre. Randomly generated terrain/loot/enemies promotes replayable, always fresh gameplay, with a new twist every time. The best examples (and pioneers) of the genre include Risk of Rain 1&2, Spelunky 1&2, Rogue Legacy 1&2, and The Binding of Issac.
That being said. Not every game is going to do it well. Not every game needs it.
Why the fuck does Cult of the Lamb need roguelite gameplay for example? is the game not a cult simulator? I honestly feel like they could have added a bit of town management in and replaced the roguelike sections with a 'gathering resources' feature, and expand and build upon the cult simulator gameplay more to make it a bit more like ActRaiser? It honestly serves to make an extremely unique game less unique.

Returnal is especially a big one, people LOVE this game but there are a few who wished it weren't a roguelite. which i can understand. the game has the perfect aesthetic, disgusting grungy look to it that makes it perfect for a Metroid successor with tightly designed, amazingly crafted worlds to explore. Instead you get a randomly generated world that you can't immerse yourself into as well, and doesn't convey visual storytelling as well as a handcrafted world.

There's dead cells too which is a personal one. A roguelike metroidvania just sounds like an idea that makes me want to blow chucks. Roguelikes work when it's in short, easy burts. not so much so when they're an entire world. There's a reason games like Super Metroid and Hollow Knight get so much praise, their handcrafted world makes it easy for them to tell amazing stories, have great and memorable characters, and memorable setpieces. You can't do that when the shit is generated. It just makes no sense!!

With the surge of them recently it feels less like an artistic decision and more like a fucking trend to capitalize on the success of the pioneers of the genre. There are some games that either don't work with roguelike design or would be better off without them. This kind of stuff is making indies less diverse and unique. It's not much different from the battle royale trend that invaded shooters throughout 2017-2021.. just that battle royales are an inherently flawed, shite concept so we gave them a lot of flack for it. That doesn't make the indie roguelite obssession okay though.
 
Yep. Back in the day action games were built to encounter new things all the time from beginning to end. Then you could replay at additional difficulty levels. Then maybe as a gag you could have a 1 credit mode on the side.

The whole game should not be the joke mode. Heavily dragged down Returnal and Sifu. DMC, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta - they're full adventures. Only a small indie team that can't make anything better should do this. There should never be a AAA roguelike.
 
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Fbh

Member
I doubt they are going anywhere as its an easy way to get way more gameplay hours out of a relatively low amount of content.

I mean I loved Hades but strictly speaking the entire game is 4 small areas and 4 bosses and yet it takes the average player over 20 hours to see the whole story.
Not to disregard their work as they did a fantastic job adding a ton of variety to the abilities and making each run feel unique. But it certainly would have taken more work to make 20 hours worth of unique areas, enemies and bosses
 

TexMex

Member
I guess if they started sucking but it seems like they crank one banger after another. Dead Cells, Hades, Returnal, Rogue Legacy 2, Enter the Gungeon - all some of my favorite games in recent years.
 

jaysius

Member
In certain rougelikes, I wish for a fixed mode...shouldn't even be hard to implement alongside the other modes like the rouge stuff and endless. Forced rouge gameplay can ruin otherwise great games
You see though if they did that, then level design would become something that's judged, these indies suck at making good levels and thats why they crutch on the procedural generation, because then they're given a pass on that aspect of the game.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Just don't play them? Oh stop making metroidvanias, oh stop making roguelites, everybody is angry at a different thing, showing they develop a bit of everything. Plenty indies don't do roguelikes/lites or metroidvanias or boomer shooters or pokemon-likes or animal crossing-likes or JRPG-likes or combat flight games or visual novels or horror games, adventures or survival horror, pure survival or puzzle or card or farming or arcade or strategy or retro games of all kinds. They make all of it and more... They've carried VR gaming with titles in every genre and they make every genre in flat too.
 
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fallingdove

Member
I do agree that rogue-likes are too common these days. That said, I wouldn’t change a thing about Returnal.

It’s unique arcade+rogue-like+3rd person shooter formula has created unbelievable replayability. Even after platinuming the game, I find myself redownloading it every few weeks to do a couple of runs. The random nature of it keeps the game fresh and engaging.

This isn’t true about every rogue-like however. There are plenty that would have benefit from a thoughtful, well-crafted world.
 

Filben

Member
I feel like most games (also with other hype genres like survival crafting battle royale etc) lack real unique features and I often find myself asking why should I be playing this instead of the best in class I already have?

A good copy is better than poorly made uniqueness, but I wish more games would still offer something that 90% of the other games haven't.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Stop bad roguelites*

FTFY. Rogue Legacy 2, Returnal, Hades, Dead Cells, and to a lesser extent games like Into the Breach, Inscryption and Slay the Spire are some of the best games to come out in the last 4 years.
 

Majukun

Member
because indie games have to increase their percepted value,and offering "potentially infinite" replayability is a plus, especially if your mechanics are solid

it's basically the equivalent of most games having a multiplayer component at one point during the 360/ps3 era
 

Mr Hyde

Gold Member
I wish. Super tired of the genre already. It's not that it's bad. I love Dead Cells, Binding of Isaac, Hades etc, but it seems with every gem there are 100 uninspired clones. It's oversaturated. Move the fuck on.
 

winjer

Gold Member
I don't like roguelites, for the most part. It mostly feels like wasting time for little to no progression.
There are a couple that I enjoyed, despite being roguelites. But they would be much better, if they were normal games.
This kind of genre just feels like a cheap easy way to pad game time. Repeating the same content, but shuffled around to pretend it's always something new.
Really wish it would go away, as some of these indie roguelites could be amazingly good normal games. Not just a repeat of filler, for the sake of pretending to have more game length.
 
Yes please! I stopped paying attention to indies because there are just too many that offer generated levels, it just feels lazy after a while (same reason I didn't get Returnal).
 

RavageX

Member
Most indies period are just hoping to get lucky by getting caught up in whatever craze is going on at the time. A few are actually trying to be creative and unique, but way too much trash out there for me.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
There are plenty of choices, there arent just those.
Just don't play them? Oh stop making metroidvanias, oh stop making roguelites, everybody is angry at a different thing, showing they develop a bit of everything. Plenty indies don't do roguelikes/lites or metroidvanias or boomer shooters or pokemon-likes or animal crossing-likes or JRPG-likes or combat flight games or visual novels or horror games, adventures or survival horror, pure survival or puzzle or card or farming or arcade or strategy or retro games of all kinds. They make all of it and more... They've carried VR gaming with titles in every genre and they make every genre in flat too.
never said i hated them but like there's 16 billion of them these days, look at the steam tag 'action roguelike' and there's like 30 of them there.
it's plain and simple oversaturation, even games that aren't all roguelike still have them shoehorned in

something like spelunky works because its tileset is designed to be randomly generated and randomly made, encouraging random bs and wacky encounters every playthrough, not to mention fun gameplay as well. it makes you make decisions on the fly too since you only have 3 hitpoints, and you can only gain one back every end of the level.

but then you get cult of the lamb advertising itself as a fun twisted animal crossing like cult simulator and- oh yeah you have to do some shoehorned roguelite gameplay as well. Cult of the Lamb's basic premise would work better if the roguelite gameplay was drastically cut back upon or better yet cancelled outright. Spelunky couldn't work without roguelike as its premise. And this goes for all of the games i listed as 'good roguelikes'
 
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darrylgorn

Member
For me it's not the quantity of roguelikes, but more so this experience of spotting a game that looks really good at first, only to find out it's much more limited in scope because it's a rogue-like-lite-type-whateverthefuckyouwanttocallit.
 
The few games I did actually like that were rogue-light was despite them being so. Hell, I'd rather them go back to milking metroidvanias than this.
 

BabyYoda

Member
I couldn't agree more, not liked one single RogueLite yet. Now saying that, I'm always happy to hear a game is going to be a SoulsLike, can't get enough of those tbh!
 
Being a dusty old man, I've grown along with randomized aspects of gaming and even enjoyed it at times. Randomized level design though? That shit can die in a fire.
 

cireza

Member
Please look forward to my new game.

It will be an open-world metroid-vania-souls-like-rogue-lite action-rpg with levelling, classes, farming, crafting, fetch quests, skill trees and online co-op.

The only true modern rogue like game is the Shiren series. Nothing else comes close.
 
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Spukc

Member
Roguelikes are a unique and fun genre. Randomly generated terrain/loot/enemies promotes replayable, always fresh gameplay, with a new twist every time. The best examples (and pioneers) of the genre include Risk of Rain 1&2, Spelunky 1&2, Rogue Legacy 1&2, and The Binding of Issac.
That being said. Not every game is going to do it well. Not every game needs it.
Why the fuck does Cult of the Lamb need roguelite gameplay for example? is the game not a cult simulator? I honestly feel like they could have added a bit of town management in and replaced the roguelike sections with a 'gathering resources' feature, and expand and build upon the cult simulator gameplay more to make it a bit more like ActRaiser? It honestly serves to make an extremely unique game less unique.

Returnal is especially a big one, people LOVE this game but there are a few who wished it weren't a roguelite. which i can understand. the game has the perfect aesthetic, disgusting grungy look to it that makes it perfect for a Metroid successor with tightly designed, amazingly crafted worlds to explore. Instead you get a randomly generated world that you can't immerse yourself into as well, and doesn't convey visual storytelling as well as a handcrafted world.

There's dead cells too which is a personal one. A roguelike metroidvania just sounds like an idea that makes me want to blow chucks. Roguelikes work when it's in short, easy burts. not so much so when they're an entire world. There's a reason games like Super Metroid and Hollow Knight get so much praise, their handcrafted world makes it easy for them to tell amazing stories, have great and memorable characters, and memorable setpieces. You can't do that when the shit is generated. It just makes no sense!!

With the surge of them recently it feels less like an artistic decision and more like a fucking trend to capitalize on the success of the pioneers of the genre. There are some games that either don't work with roguelike design or would be better off without them. This kind of stuff is making indies less diverse and unique. It's not much different from the battle royale trend that invaded shooters throughout 2017-2021.. just that battle royales are an inherently flawed, shite concept so we gave them a lot of flack for it. That doesn't make the indie roguelite obssession okay though.
No

Be ready for auto shooters like vampire savior
 
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Tg89

Member
No thanks.

Dead Cells, Hades, Isaac, Spelunky. Some of the absolute best indies we have.

Returnal is amazing too. More AA/AAA roguelites please.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
Yes, done with rougelites as well. It's at the point to where as soon I as hear or I read the word I'm out.

I get it's the perfect genre for like taking a dump or a short plane flight, but please, we need something different already.
 
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Kataploom

Member
Nah, I don't like them but let people get what they want... Also, there's a reason why they got too common in the indie scene: Even if a bit harder, once learned it's way quicker to make procedural levels with random seeds and make the player start over again for replayability considering their limited resources instead of fully designed levels and whatnot... But it's also a matter of people liking the genre, that's not me for sure.

I can say the same for surviving games, it got tiring seeing some game call my attention on a trailer just for it to show some "basement progress" animation later on, but people just like them 🤷‍♂️
 
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