Can people please understand that Switch 2 COULD be more powerful than Steam Deck?!

Tams

Member
Battery life isn't a given though is it? Increased power means more power draw.

That depends on what the platform holder wants. You can use decreases in resistor size to increase clock speeds etc. for an increase in performance, or use it to increase power draw. Or any mix in-between.
 

Resenge

Member
That depends on what the platform holder wants. You can use decreases in resistor size to increase clock speeds etc. for an increase in performance, or use it to increase power draw. Or any mix in-between.
So, just like the Steam Deck? Got ya.
 
If it comes with the Power Glove 2 than I’m all in!
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
No, brother. It WILL be more powerful than the steam deck.

Nintendo needs to stop making fisher-price hardware and come out with the most powerful handheld that is technically possible. I want at least Xbox series S levels of power at a bare minimum.
 

Miles708

Member
Nintendo started printing money when they stopped going after powerful hardware. They have their niche and it makes them billions.
There is no reason why they should change strategy now.
 

Exede

Member
We.... simply don't know. Nintendo has a new CEO maybe things change and we have Game Cube era Nintendo back where they had the most powerful console of the gen. I mean i have absolutly no doubt that the Switch successor has at least double the power of the Switch. They learned their lesson with Wii U!
 

MrA

Member
Nintendo started printing money when they stopped going after powerful hardware. They have their niche and it makes them billions.
There is no reason why they should change strategy now.
Funny that ms forgoing cutting edge with the s also seems a winning strategy, and chasing power required bank rolling losses no matter what
Though really Nintendo didn't abandon power Sony just went off the rails with power usage before with the ps3 and ms didn't understand consoles ever original xbox included, no console hit near 100 watts until those 2 blew past it
Really the switch just uses historic console power levels
 

I Master l

Member
No, brother. It WILL be more powerful than the steam deck.

Nintendo needs to stop making fisher-price hardware and come out with the most powerful handheld that is technically possible. I want at least Xbox series S levels of power at a bare minimum.

Its technically impossible to have the series s power level in a portable, Not even the Xbox One power is possible with the Switch from factor
 
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This is a ridiculous claim. Unlike Nintendo, Valve isn't restricted to Generational designs. If there is demand for it, they can always opt for the latest in-spec. Steam deck is obviously a trojan for Linux gaming. And I am all for it.
 

Zannegan

Member
Its technically impossible to have the series s power level in a portable, Not even the Xbox One power is possible with the Switch from factor
I'm not saying Nintendo WILL put out something more powerful than an Xbox One, but it should certainly be technically possible. The Switch itself is something like 1/3 Xbox One levels while docked, and the original launched almost six years ago.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Series S is 4 TF, so it's several times the One. The full Tegra Orin btw is 5+ TF albeit at 60 W.

I looked up Xbox One because the post I replied to said Xbox One power level was not possible in a handheld.

So Tegra Odin suggests XSS is already possible in handheld, but the battery life would suck, correct?
 
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I looked up Xbox One because the post I replied to said Xbox One power level was not possible in a handheld.

So Tegra Odin suggests XSS is already possible in handheld, but the battery life would suck, correct?

60 W is far too much for a handheld. The deck is like 15-20.
 

Topher

Gold Member
60 W is far too much for a handheld. The deck is like 15-20.

Makes sense. So one of the less powerful varieties of Orin would be more likely. Orin NX is 3.76 TF and power draw of 10-25. Orin Nano would be more likely for Nintendo though. 2.56 TF and 7-15 pd which would allow for a smaller form factor I would think.
 

Woopah

Member
Completely unrealistic. What's realistic is (best case) ~Base PS4 in docked mode and Steam Deck like performance in handheld mode. This is assuming it is some custom version of the Tegra Orin.
Base PS4 power + DLSS would take it above PS4 Pro in terms of actual output right?
 

Tams

Member
FFS, now that USB 4 is rated up to 120Gbps, I just want the next Nintendo console to have an eGPU in it.

You need at least 60Gbps for it not be an utter waste of the eGPU, but even Nintendo should be able to manage half of the top of the spec.
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
Its technically impossible to have the series s power level in a portable, Not even the Xbox One power is possible with the Switch from factor

Disagree. We can put a 3070 in a laptop and the Steam Deck already isn't that far away from the Series S.

If Nintendo wanted to, they could make the Switch 2 more powerful than the Steam Deck and very, very close to the Series S.
 

SScorpio

Member
60 W is far too much for a handheld. The deck is like 15-20.
The chip doesn't need to be run at 60W. As the power usage increases, you get very large diminishing returns on performance. People are undervolting RX 4090 cards and a 1-3% performance drop, results in a 25-30% power usage drop. People have also found limiting the Steam Deck's power draw can give you better performance since there is less heat generated so the clocks stay higher longer rather than boosting high, heating up, and then throttling back down to maintain temperature.

The Steam Deck is also already somewhere between the Xbox One S and base Playstation 4 when gaming at 800p. That means while it doesn't have the same raw power, if you run console-equivalent graphics settings at 800p, the frame rate will match what the Xbox One S hits.

The Steam Deck also uses Zen 2 CPU cores and RDNA 2 GPU cores. This is the same configuration as the PS5/Xbox Series, though the Deck has few cores at lower speeds. There are already other handhelds getting Zen 3 with RDNA 2. And I wouldn't be surprised to see Zen 3 with RDNA 3 if not Zen 4 with RDNA 3 in a year or so.
 
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01011001

Gold Member
I looked up Xbox One because the post I replied to said Xbox One power level was not possible in a handheld.

So Tegra Odin suggests XSS is already possible in handheld, but the battery life would suck, correct?

a portable Series S is absolutely possible, but it won't be financially viable until like 3 years down the line I think.
the Steam Deck itself is a better indicator tho than the Tegra chipsets by Nvidia.

the Deck is already 1.6TF peak and uses the exact same architecture as the Series S.
if we assume a steady increase in performance with the same power draw as the Deck then 3 years should be when a mobile RDNA and Ryzen SoC as powerful as the Series S should be possible.

the real question is if Microsoft wants to do that, but I think they absolutely could.


I think if Nintendo uses the SoC that has been leaked a few months backl, the system in Handheld mode will be more like 2TF, which is absolutely enough for a handheld. i just hope that they don't underclock the Docked mode again like they did with the Switch 1... because that was entirely unnecessary as we now due to modded systems playing games just fine at max clock speeds of the original X1 (the Mariko revision could run even faster tho)
 
Makes sense. So one of the less powerful varieties of Orin would be more likely. Orin NX is 3.76 TF and power draw of 10-25. Orin Nano would be more likely for Nintendo though. 2.56 TF and 7-15 pd which would allow for a smaller form factor I would think.

The 3.76 number is for FP16 and not FP32. FP32 is half that, so 1.88 TF FP32, which is comparable to the Base PS4. Bandwidth is likely going to be worse tho.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I said "Switch form factor" do you think the Switch and the Deck have the same dimensions?

You also said "in a portable". The dimensions are not exactly the same but they both have portable form factors. And since we are talking about the next Switch, the dimensions are not necessarily going to be the same in any case. Either way, you are not explaining why any of this is "impossible".
 
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I Master l

Member
You also said "in a portable". The dimensions are not exactly the same but they both have portable form factors. And since we are talking about the next Switch, the dimensions are not necessarily going to be the same in any case. Either way, you are not explaining why any of this is "impossible".

Series S is performance is not possible in portable even in a Deck sized one, Xbox 1 performance is not possible in
Switch sized portable, and i dont think Nintendo is stupid enough to make Switch 2 as big as the the Deck, its a
portable but doesn't provide pleasant portable experience
 

Topher

Gold Member
Series S is performance is not possible in portable even in a Deck sized one, Xbox 1 performance is not possible in
Switch sized portable, and i dont think Nintendo is stupid enough to make Switch 2 as big as the the Deck, its a
portable but doesn't provide pleasant portable experience

So there will never ever be a handheld with the power of the Series S? That's what it seems that you are implying by saying it is "impossible". Or do you mean not possible with today's tech?

Edit: And what about the Avaneo Air Pro? Has a Vega 8 GPU which is more powerful than Xbox One. CPU is much more powerful.



 
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I Master l

Member
So there will never ever be a handheld with the power of the Series S? That's what it seems that you are implying by saying it is "impossible". Or do you mean not possible with today's tech?

Edit: And what about the Avaneo Air Pro? Has a Vega 8 GPU which is more powerful than Xbox One. CPU is much more powerful.

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DF says Steam deck is about 50-70% faster than the Air Pro and the Steam Deck itself can barely keep up with the PS4 so its not as
fast as the Xbox 1 add to that Air Pro will have about an hour to 90min battery life when playing demanding games which is
abysmal number, but you do have a point 2 years from now it could be possible to have Xbox 1 performance in a Switch sized
portable with good battery life
 

marquimvfs

Member
I'm the only one that thinks that Nintendo will drop retrocompatibility with switch and will go full mobile arm? My bet is that they will made some Apple like custom solution, put on some foundry and it will be basically like any high end smartphone from today, with an hdmi output and detachable controllers. Even switching to AMD is more plausible than any future Nvidia solution.
 

mrmeh

Member
I read docked switch uses just under 10w when playing games undocked and just over 10w when docked.

It is this figure that limits how powerful the next switch will be.

The series S uses 74 watts when playing games, and is built on TSMC's 7 nm process node, the current most efficient chips Apple M2 are made using TSMC’s second-generation 5nm process (N5P).

Currently and I believe for the next couple of years it is unlikely that chip manufacturing will improve enough to produce a chip as powerful as Series S that runs in a 10watt envelope required for a mass consumer handheld of switch size.

Cutting edge chip manufacturing processes are currently turning out to be very expensive so it is also unlikely that price/profit conscious Nintendo would use a cutting edge design/manufacturing process.

So there you go that's why we can't have nice things.
 

Topher

Gold Member
DF says Steam deck is about 50-70% faster than the Air Pro and the Steam Deck itself can barely keep up with the PS4 so its not as
fast as the Xbox 1 add to that Air Pro will have about an hour to 90min battery life when playing demanding games which is
abysmal number, but you do have a point 2 years from now it could be possible to have Xbox 1 performance in a Switch sized
portable with good battery life

Ah....ok. I was only going by teraflops, but not one to one obviously with different architectures.
 

Klosshufvud

Member
I read docked switch uses just under 10w when playing games undocked and just over 10w when docked.

It is this figure that limits how powerful the next switch will be.

The series S uses 74 watts when playing games, and is built on TSMC's 7 nm process node, the current most efficient chips Apple M2 are made using TSMC’s second-generation 5nm process (N5P).

Currently and I believe for the next couple of years it is unlikely that chip manufacturing will improve enough to produce a chip as powerful as Series S that runs in a 10watt envelope required for a mass consumer handheld of switch size.

Cutting edge chip manufacturing processes are currently turning out to be very expensive so it is also unlikely that price/profit conscious Nintendo would use a cutting edge design/manufacturing process.

So there you go that's why we can't have nice things.
Good points. Nintendo opts for really low power draws. The Nvidia Shield SoC of Switch was also severely downclocked due to low power budget.

It's not in Nintendo's interest to beat Steam Deck on power. Their interest is to deliver just enough power to make the leap from Switch noticeable while also pushing for small form factor (Nintendo prioritizes kids/teens) and longer battery life. The things Nintendo users prioritize isn't just power. It's ease of use and novelty. Valve had to perform miracles to create a handheld with that performance for that price. Compromises had to be made on battery life but its more hardcore userbase can with ease adjust Deck performance to one's needs. Nintendo isn't gonna do that. They will absolutely dial back performance aggressively to hit their other goals mentioned already.
 

Woopah

Member
I'm the only one that thinks that Nintendo will drop retrocompatibility with switch and will go full mobile arm? My bet is that they will made some Apple like custom solution, put on some foundry and it will be basically like any high end smartphone from today, with an hdmi output and detachable controllers. Even switching to AMD is more plausible than any future Nvidia solution.
We already know that Nvidia is working on a new SoC for Nintendo. Their DLSS solution makes perfect sense for Nintendo to use.
 

ProLogY

Member
I’m sure it will be more powerful. The difference though is Valve seems more willing to do incremental updates, so if a switch 2 does have a power advantage, I don’t suspect that will last very long.. I mean look how long the Switch has been out currently? Essentially ancient in tech years.
 

Silver Wattle

Gold Member
It will likely only be around the steamdeck in GPU performance, maybe slightly under or over.

People talking about Nintendo using 3nm are having a laugh.
Nintendo will use 6nm.
 
It will likely only be around the steamdeck in GPU performance, maybe slightly under or over.

People talking about Nintendo using 3nm are having a laugh.
Nintendo will use 6nm.

Haha no.

That's the other thing. It's likely to use the same Samsung 8 nm that Ampere uses. That's what Orin uses too.
 
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No, Nintendo always likes to cut corners with otherwise straight hardware, and it may seem like potential on paper but it'll likely end up like the Switch 1 were you are limited to what you can do with it docked and then undocked will decline by default.

I don't see Nintendo putting in the expense to be notably better than the Steam Deck which would head toward the GPD/Aya territory when Nintendo wants to sell at a profit and has no interest in taking any loss. I don't think they will go higher than $299 again, at most they may do $399 if they are not able to drop the price of the current Switches but I think they will go for a $100 discount on current Switch and Oled and do $299 for the Switch 2 imo.
 
I’d laugh my ass off if Nintendo just release the 4DS as the successor to the Switch after all this.

If it has 4D I'd buy it.

That said if Nintendo could get NVidia to ensure it could do DLSS 2.0 it may run better, at least for the games that use the feature. I don't really care though as I don't bother playing Switch stuff on my Deck.
 
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Woopah

Member
No, Nintendo always likes to cut corners with otherwise straight hardware, and it may seem like potential on paper but it'll likely end up like the Switch 1 were you are limited to what you can do with it docked and then undocked will decline by default.

I don't see Nintendo putting in the expense to be notably better than the Steam Deck which would head toward the GPD/Aya territory when Nintendo wants to sell at a profit and has no interest in taking any loss. I don't think they will go higher than $299 again, at most they may do $399 if they are not able to drop the price of the current Switches but I think they will go for a $100 discount on current Switch and Oled and do $299 for the Switch 2 imo.
Given how Nintendo has done no price drops so far, I can't see them go to a $100 price drop with either models. Especially when they already gave the Lite as their entry model at $199.

OLED is selling very very well. The lowest the next Switch model will launch at is $349 (and it will probably be higher). I reck Switch 4k comes in at $399, while OLED drops to $299 and the regular model gets discontinued.
 

Dreamin

Member
Is there even a rough release window, even within a year, for Switch 2? Doesn't seem necessary to point out it could be more powerful unless it's coming out very soon, in which case from nintendo's last few consoles it'd likely lag behind hardware wise.
 
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Supple

Member
Given Nintendo's history with hardware, I really doubt it. They continue still struggle with 1080p @ 60fps gaming. Steam Deck 2 will probably be out before Switch 2/Pro.
 
Is there even a rough release window, even within a year, for Switch 2? Doesn't seem necessary to point out it could be more powerful unless it's coming out very soon, in which case from nintendo's last few consoles it'd likely lag behind hardware wise.

2024 most likely.
 
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