Can people please understand that Switch 2 COULD be more powerful than Steam Deck?!

jigglet

Member
This thread reminds me of the last few Nintendo generations:

Wii: the next Wii could be every bit as powerful as the 360 / PS3!

Wii U: the next console could rival the PS4??!!!

how does targeting a generation-old platform (which the Steam deck will be by the time the next Nintendo console comes out) anything to gloat about?

I thought Wii U was a piece of trash but Wii and Switch are amongst my favourite consoles ever so I'm not being a fanboy here. Comparing yourself to a generation-old platform is fucking pathetic. It's setting the bar looooooow.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
It's on samsung's 8nm... and it also has 12 cpu cores.

They could print the chips at 3nm, trimming some arm cores... and get into a power envelope that's acceptable.
I do not see Nintendo springing for that advanced a solution, more likely taking an existing SoC again, turning down the clock speed, and shutting down some cores to further reduce power consumption. Like they did with Switch: since the base SoC was not too big and on a cheap enough manufacturing process, their R&D was all spent on the software and tooling, the joycons, the dock, and the games.
 
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Toots

Member
I understand that in a world of hypotheticals, the switch 2 could very well be the most powerful console, handheld or not, ever created. It could harness the power of a billion suns and cast C-beams through Tannhäuser Gate.
But I know it will not because Nintendo are scrooges :/
 

Kupfer

Member
"Can people please understand that" nobody cares ?!

The devices are aimed at two different target groups.

Just because some here on the forum, a minority with a far larger percentage of enthusiasts than average, know all the available hardware inside out and have to have and compare everything, doesn't mean anyone "out there" cares.

The Switch is a simple out-of-the-box experience that a 5 year old, a tech-illiterate 25 year old, as well as a 65 year old can easily handle. Unpack it, turn it on, get started. Everything is optimized and customized for it, there is very little room for the user to make mistakes.

NO PC gamer has ever had or will ever have the luxury of such a playful and hassle-free experience with a gaming PC - the Steam Deck makes a lot of things easier on the surface, but at its core it is still a PC - just with an integrated controller, screen and speakers. It already starts with the fact that you have to switch to the Linux desktop interface for certain application purposes, deal with a terminal and take resulting detours to the desired application.
Even some PC-affine Windows users throw their hands up in horror.

It is amateurish to compare the two devices again and again merely on the basis of the form factor, although they are not in competition with each other at all.
And even more so, the difference in performance does not really matter. One is a device for enthusiasts, the other is a toy for everyone.

In my opinion, both groups get an excellent device for the respective applications and anyone who complains because one device can't do what the other can and vice versa has missed the point of the respective device.
 
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rodrigolfp

Member
NO PC gamer has ever had or will ever have the luxury of such a playful and hassle-free experience with a gaming PC
And no console gamer too, even more on Switch as every kind of worse hassle is there. Shit IQ, framerate, input lag, graphics, paid online, overpriced games...
 

Kupfer

Member
And no console gamer too, even more on Switch as every kind of worse hassle is there. Shit IQ, framerate, input lag, graphics, paid online, overpriced games...
Give Up Omg GIF by Jasmine Star
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
I do not see Nintendo springing for that advanced a solution, more likely taking an existing SoC again, turning down the clock speed, and shutting down some cores to further reduce power consumption. Like they did with Switch: since the base SoC was not too big and on a cheap enough manufacturing process, their R&D was all spent on the software and tooling, the joycons, the dock, and the games.

I see your reasoning, but if they opt for the conservative solution (switch2) they've got most of that work done already. Maybe i'm too fixated on the idea, but I see shipping a 4tf machine as a very attractive target since that means it's essentially a xbox S (barring cpu differences ofc) and that means they can get curren gen ports.
 
For Nintendo to be able to sell it at or below $399 and not take a significant loss as PS and Xbox do? Naw.....

They barely made money on the Switch at launch at $299 with the Tegra chip, which is why they chose not to pack in any games.
 

ultrazilla

Member
With this cycle and how long it's taken Nintendo to give us a more powerful iteration of the Switch(They haven't btw and OLED doesn't count) more eyes
will be on them than normal once they decide to join the "current" gen.

I think the vast majority of fans would be happy to see PS4/Pro/Xbox One X type performance on the Switch 2 especially if it keeps it's hybrid form factor. I'd still love to see
them embrace 2k/60fps gaming. I just hope whatever they end up using for their DLSS "solution" is decent enough.
 
I see your reasoning, but if they opt for the conservative solution (switch2) they've got most of that work done already. Maybe i'm too fixated on the idea, but I see shipping a 4tf machine as a very attractive target since that means it's essentially a xbox S (barring cpu differences ofc) and that means they can get curren gen ports.

If by "current gen" you mean PS4/One S games, yes.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
If by "current gen" you mean PS4/One S games, yes.
I see Switch 2 targeting lower resolution than PS4 (dynamic res and fancy reconstruction) and slightly less complexity but fancier features. Think optimised to run UE 5.1++ at 60 FPS (maybe running it with those settings at 30 FPS).
 

SaintALia

Member
This thread reminds me of the last few Nintendo generations:

Wii: the next Wii could be every bit as powerful as the 360 / PS3!

Wii U: the next console could rival the PS4??!!!

how does targeting a generation-old platform (which the Steam deck will be by the time the next Nintendo console comes out) anything to gloat about?

I thought Wii U was a piece of trash but Wii and Switch are amongst my favourite consoles ever so I'm not being a fanboy here. Comparing yourself to a generation-old platform is fucking pathetic. It's setting the bar looooooow.
@bolded

What?? Steam Deck launched early 2022, Switch 2 might come next year or the year after, that's not a 'gen old'. We don't even know iterative Steam Deck plans to be as well. I'm not sure what sort of black magic you all hope Nintendo will work in the portable space as well. Last I check they couldn't defy laws of physics, didn't develop revolutionary new battery tech, nor were they low-key engineering chips to double the power of the Apple's M2 or something, and doing all that, to give you 3-5 hours of battery life while costing below $400. Unless all those patents to those things spill out next year, expectations should be kept in check.

And all that is assuming Nintendo sticks to a barebones Switch 2 and NO GIMMICKS, which I doubt they will. They'll likely throw in some new stuff in there, and who knows what form that'll take and how the specs will conform to that. They do have a ton of patents and looking for 'new ways to innovate in the gaming space' all the time. I'll be legit surprised if we just get a more powerful Switch.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Switch 2 will be around as/more powerful than the steam deck... but by then the deck 2 will be out so what's the big idea
 
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Topher

Gold Member
How so? I can't imagine BOM being significantly different between the two companies because of a closed ecosystem.

Same reason consoles are often sold at cost or at a loss. Software sales subsidize the hardware. With closed ecosystems, the platform owner is the sole source for games. With open systems like Steam Deck, there are other options. I've playing games from my GOG and Epic libraries on my Steam Deck. Valve doesn't get any of that revenue.
 
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SaintALia

Member
Same reason consoles are often sold at cost or at a loss. Software sales subsidize the hardware. With closed ecosystems, the platform owner is the sole source for games. With open systems like Steam Deck, there are other options. I've playing games from my GOG and Epic libraries on my Steam Deck. Valve doesn't get any of that revenue.
I mean, that doesn't seem entirely correct to me. I understand the 'Software sales subsidize the hardware' bit, but:
The BOM for each would be a set amount at the end of the day, and both companies would decide to take hit when it comes to sales for hardware. Software claws back revenue later.
Steam is 'open'-ish. It still ships with Steam OS, and the majority of users do buy from the Steam store and the device is optimised for Steam OS. I assume many users are buying the platform to dump bucket loads of roms and emulators on them and a few are putting Windows and various Linux OS on them to eventually run games or tinker or whatever, but the majority are likely buying from and using the Steam store.

Steam isn't the sole source of games for Steamdeck users, but it should be the majority.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Same reason consoles are often sold at cost or at a loss. Software sales subsidize the hardware. With closed ecosystems, the platform owner is the sole source for games. With open systems like Steam Deck, there are other options. I've playing games from my GOG and Epic libraries on my Steam Deck. Valve doesn't get any of that revenue.

you're right but the vast majority of people are just gonna play steam games. of course valve has a vested interest in selling steam games. gabe more or less said they're taking a loss on hardware.

 

Topher

Gold Member
I mean, that doesn't seem entirely correct to me. I understand the 'Software sales subsidize the hardware' bit, but:
The BOM for each would be a set amount at the end of the day, and both companies would decide to take hit when it comes to sales for hardware. Software claws back revenue later.
Steam is 'open'-ish. It still ships with Steam OS, and the majority of users do buy from the Steam store and the device is optimised for Steam OS. I assume many users are buying the platform to dump bucket loads of roms and emulators on them and a few are putting Windows and various Linux OS on them to eventually run games or tinker or whatever, but the majority are likely buying from and using the Steam store.

Steam isn't the sole source of games for Steamdeck users, but it should be the majority.

Yes, it should but Nintendo doesn't have any such doubts so obviously they can afford deeper cuts especially considering the vast majority of the software sold on Switch is first party and the vast majority of software sold on Steam Deck is third party. And Steam Deck is open, not "open-ish". Completely open. I can remove SteamOS and run Windows. Can't get more open than that.

you're right but the vast majority of people are just gonna play steam games. of course valve has a vested interest in selling steam games. gabe more or less said they're taking a loss on hardware.


Yeah, I read that article before and if Valve is indeed taking a loss then I'd say it probably more "painful" for them than it is for Nintendo because of the open nature of the device. Valve is betting more will buy Steam games, but there is a risk. It isn't that much different than PlayStation Portable where it was constantly being hacked to run other software which made it very popular at the time, but much less profitable for Sony.
 

Woopah

Member
Oh, really? I didn't knew that. My mistake. Care to share a source? It's a done deal or still a rumour?
It was not announced publicly, but files stolen from Nvidia made reference to it https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3_sH0nG_4yxuqAgBINrHAT
I do not see Nintendo springing for that advanced a solution, more likely taking an existing SoC again, turning down the clock speed, and shutting down some cores to further reduce power consumption. Like they did with Switch: since the base SoC was not too big and on a cheap enough manufacturing process, their R&D was all spent on the software and tooling, the joycons, the dock, and the games.
See above, we know Nvidia is developing a new thing specifically for Nintendo.
Yes, it should but Nintendo doesn't have any such doubts so obviously they can afford deeper cuts especially considering the vast majority of the software sold on Switch is first party and the vast majority of software sold on Steam Deck is third party. And Steam Deck is open, not "open-ish". Completely open. I can remove SteamOS and run Windows. Can't get more open than that.



Yeah, I read that article before and if Valve is indeed taking a loss then I'd say it probably more "painful" for them than it is for Nintendo because of the open nature of the device. Valve is betting more will buy Steam games, but there is a risk. It isn't that much different than PlayStation Portable where it was constantly being hacked to run other software which made it very popular at the time, but much less profitable for Sony.
On the bolded, the split between third party and first party sales on Switch is 50/50.
 

SaintALia

Member
Yes, it should but Nintendo doesn't have any such doubts so obviously they can afford deeper cuts especially considering the vast majority of the software sold on Switch is first party and the vast majority of software sold on Steam Deck is third party. And Steam Deck is open, not "open-ish". Completely open. I can remove SteamOS and run Windows. Can't get more open than that.



Yeah, I read that article before and if Valve is indeed taking a loss then I'd say it probably more "painful" for them than it is for Nintendo because of the open nature of the device. Valve is betting more will buy Steam games, but there is a risk. It isn't that much different than PlayStation Portable where it was constantly being hacked to run other software which made it very popular at the time, but much less profitable for Sony.
By 'open-ish' I meant that the main platform it ships with is Steam OS and that's what the majority of users will interact with, I wasn't referring to a walled garden type of atmosphere, I should have been clearer, apologies for that.

I still contend however that both will face a BOM issues hardware wise, which software will have to factor in later. Nintendo can afford to take deeper cuts, but they always try to avoid this, 'lateral thinking with withered technology' and all that. SD has the convenience of targeting a more 'hardcore' base of users who will likely pay more of a premium for their hardware, Nintendo has a much wider demographic target and thus will try to squeeze into that Goldilocks price for a blue ocean demographic. SD doesn't really have that problem. For now anyway, I expect Valve will eventually try to cater to wider demographics with tiered hardware, or just keep targeting their current demographics. Who knows where and how Valve plans to expand the platform and who knows how and where Nintendo will expand theirs as well.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius

Topher

Gold Member
On the bolded, the split between third party and first party sales on Switch is 50/50.

Really? What is the source of that info?

By 'open-ish' I meant that the main platform it ships with is Steam OS and that's what the majority of users will interact with, I wasn't referring to a walled garden type of atmosphere, I should have been clearer, apologies for that.

I still contend however that both will face a BOM issues hardware wise, which software will have to factor in later. Nintendo can afford to take deeper cuts, but they always try to avoid this, 'lateral thinking with withered technology' and all that. SD has the convenience of targeting a more 'hardcore' base of users who will likely pay more of a premium for their hardware, Nintendo has a much wider demographic target and thus will try to squeeze into that Goldilocks price for a blue ocean demographic. SD doesn't really have that problem. For now anyway, I expect Valve will eventually try to cater to wider demographics with tiered hardware, or just keep targeting their current demographics. Who knows where and how Valve plans to expand the platform and who knows how and where Nintendo will expand theirs as well.

Don't necessarily disagree with anything you said. The broader demographics definitely works to Nintendo's benefit as does the strength of their first party, something Valve lacks.
 

Woopah

Member
Really? What is the source of that info?
Just went back and checked and I'd got that ratio mixed up with a different one. Ratio of first party sales to third party sales last quarter was 73/37 so your original statement was correct.
 
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