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[Woopah]

Leaks are leaks but obviously if there is information that shows I was wrong on this occasion I would accept that. But who leaked it? Is it even real?

Nvidia got hacked and the hackers released some of the information they found (part of which refers to a future Switch model).

This article explains things mostly well https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...YQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3_sH0nG_4yxuqAgBINrHAT

 

[jshaver488]

No I said the Switch 2 would be. I said the 360 is more like the OG Switch at a major push.

…… you think the switch 2 will be ps3 ballpark? Lmfao

 

[Shut0wen]

I'm in the Switch thread and Gaffers seem to be convinced that somehow the Switch 2 will be more powerful than a Steam Deck! Some people are saying it'll be like a PS5 in power!

THE HELL IS ACTUALLY GOING ON AT GAF!

Why don't people REMEMBER that Nintendo do not chase the graphics race? Why was it only one person in that thread who literally spoke some sense about this?

Nintendo tried to do that game with the GC. It failed. Done. They no longer do it. Gaf needs to remember this and STOP DRINKING THE NINTENDO COOL AID WTFFF!

Look just LOOK at the history of Nintendo! IT'S EASY TO SEE!

We will get something MAYBE at a little under PS4 level MAYBE.

CAN GAF PLEASE SEE SENSE!

THANK YOU!

Nintendo dont purposely not chase graphics for there consoles, ever since the gamecube they have started to make consoles into products that can sell and make a profit while sony and xbox dont do that anymore but of switch 2 were to come out in 3 or 4 years time from now then technically it wont be far off from having near identical graphics as the ps5 while selling at a price far less then the ps5 but more then series s, but honestly i think nintendo will stick with nividia and chase DLSS since its technology thats right up there own street

 

[playsaves3]

Atlan would likely be heavily thermally limited.
Being Ada based doesnt seem lke a good move looking at the increased TDPs across Ada.
Orin is Ampere based and weve seen Ampere enjoy being undervolted.
I could see a switch 2 being Orin based, it would have the advantage of DLSS and a pretty mature architecture going for it.
That would place it at or about the PS4Pro....which in a handheld device would be some tough shit.

I’m hoping for slightly less than series s docked

 

[Black_Stride]

I’m hoping for slightly less than series s docked

PS4Pro and Series S have practically the same TFLOP count.
Being Ampere based an Orin based Super Switch would outdo both consoles easy work.
The CPU would be up in the air though, it would almost certainly be ARM based.

 

[playsaves3]

PS4Pro and Series S have practically the same TFLOP count.
Being Ampere based an Orin based Super Switch would outdo both consoles easy work.
The CPU would be up in the air though, it would almost certainly be ARM based.

Is hope the cpu is series s level especially if it’s coming 2025 or later

 

[Black_Stride]

Is hope the cpu is series s level especially if it’s coming 2025 or later

What ARM CPU do you think could match the Series S and fit the form factor?

 

[playsaves3]

Nobody was saying that in the other thread...

CPU is actually worse... All of the 8th gen consoles CPUs are worse than the 7th gen consoles CPUs, weird, I know. But Nintendo put all their efforts on GPU power instead, that even counting Wii U, all they had was better GPU + shitload of RAM compared to PS360.

I must be wrong on this, but isn't that what Nintendo normally do? Don't they tend to spend more on GPU in their systems given a "good enough" CPU?

If that's the case they need to "switch" (pun intended) their mindset since 9th gen consoles have a way better CPU this time and that can make scalability very difficult.

Uh the cpu is easily the worst part about the 9th Gen consoles

 

[playsaves3]

What ARM CPU do you think could match the Series S and fit the form factor?

I mean docked I don’t expect it portable obviously and it will likely be unnecessary for portable

 

[Black_Stride]

I mean docked I don’t expect it portable obviously and it will likely be unnecessary for portable

What ARM CPU do you think could match the Series S and fit the form factor?

 

[Zannegan]

I mean docked I don’t expect it portable obviously and it will likely be unnecessary for portable

Doesn't the CPU have to be fairly similar between docked and portable modes? Visuals can change, but gameplay beeds to be consistent.

 

[supernova8]

Doesn't the CPU have to be fairly similar between docked and portable modes? Visuals can change, but gameplay beeds to be consistent.

I'll take some gameplay beeds

 

[Boy bawang]

I’m hoping for slightly less than series s docked

In raw power, that's not realistic. With what we know from the hack, and assuming conservative clocks, you're looking at a device with 1.6-2TF and a modern architecture, which can help a lot but is hard to quantify. If you add DLSS on top of that, and it's a huge equalizer, I guess that you can hope for visuals approaching those of a series S. Also, we know from the hack that some form of ray tracing should be there, and Nvidia is much more efficient than AMD in that regard.
What we still don't know is the CPU, memory etc, and those will surely gimp the system to some extent. However, I'm not convinced that the CPUs of the home consoles will be maxed out, so the new switch could maybe get lucky in that regard.

Overall, I expect the new switch to be to the PS5 what the current switch is to the PS4; but diminishing returns in graphics and the existence of the Series S will help Nintendo greatly I believe.

 

[jshaver488]

Uh the cpu is easily the worst part about the 9th Gen consoles

This is inaccurate

 

[winjer]

PS4Pro and Series S have practically the same TFLOP count.
Being Ampere based an Orin based Super Switch would outdo both consoles easy work.
The CPU would be up in the air though, it would almost certainly be ARM based.

The Orin SoC, uses an Arm Cortex-A78AE. AE refers to some special instructions for Automotive Enhanced.
But for a console SoC, it would probably be a normal A78 CPU.

 

[StateofMajora]

Doesn't the CPU have to be fairly similar between docked and portable modes? Visuals can change, but gameplay beeds to be consistent.

They could just halve the frame rate for portable mode. Wouldn't bother me, I only play docked.

Hey, Nintendo does this already ; Bowser's fury is 30fps on handheld mode.

 

[StateofMajora]

The Orin SoC, uses an Arm Cortex-A78AE. AE refers to some special instructions for Automotive Enhanced.
But for a console SoC, it would probably be a normal A78 CPU.

If the A78 comes in CPU clusters of 4, Nintendo would pretty much have to go for 2 clusters unless they want to be at an even bigger CPU deficit vs. current gen than switch had vs. PS4.

4 cores might mean 1 core for os again, so 3 cores might not cut it for multiplats of next gen only games.

Orin can have up to 2000+ cuda cores, so Nintendo would probably use half that at best, or worst case, 512 cuda cores.

So worst case in my estimation is 512 ampere cores, 8 A78 cores but Nintendo may prove me wrong and use 4 cores -_- Maybe it'd be OK if they had a separate os chip but might as well add more cores in that case?

Either way for Nintendo's own games, the worst case orin chip is a huge leap over current switch.

 

[playsaves3]

This is inaccurate

It isn’t considering the cpu I think the gpu is overspeced if anything. The main issues with the consoles are the cpu, memory bandwidth, and lack of ml capabilities everything else is literally perfect

 

[playsaves3]

What ARM CPU do you think could match the Series S and fit the form factor?

I don’t know we will see in 2025

 

[playsaves3]

In raw power, that's not realistic. With what we know from the hack, and assuming conservative clocks, you're looking at a device with 1.6-2TF and a modern architecture, which can help a lot but is hard to quantify. If you add DLSS on top of that, and it's a huge equalizer, I guess that you can hope for visuals approaching those of a series S. Also, we know from the hack that some form of ray tracing should be there, and Nvidia is much more efficient than AMD in that regard.
What we still don't know is the CPU, memory etc, and those will surely gimp the system to some extent. However, I'm not convinced that the CPUs of the home consoles will be maxed out, so the new switch could maybe get lucky in that regard.

Overall, I expect the new switch to be to the PS5 what the current switch is to the PS4; but diminishing returns in graphics and the existence of the Series S will help Nintendo greatly I believe.

The whole reason I expect this from the cpu is I actually think the cpus are kind of poor for the new consoles. I don’t care if the gpu is a lot worse it’s the cpu where things become really bad if the switch 2 falls behind

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Why do Nintendo fans constantly do this to themselves?

Bruh, some of them are convinced that people lie about Nintendo online being bad. I'm not even joking, I've seen them type this unironically in between dry humping their Pokemon plushies and crying about people not praising Skyward Sword enough.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Exactly and Nintendo would never release a handheld that big. I have to say tho I much prefer the ergonomics of steam deck to the switch now that I’ve had it a while.

Yeah. My Switch was gathering dust for two months but then got Live a Live and compared to the Steam Deck the original Switch seems sooooo small in comparison.

 

[playsaves3]

Doesn't the CPU have to be fairly similar between docked and portable modes? Visuals can change, but gameplay beeds to be consistent.

Besides drastically higher clocks they maybe could enable more cores while docked

They could just halve the frame rate for portable mode. Wouldn't bother me, I only play docked.

Hey, Nintendo does this already ; Bowser's fury is 30fps on handheld mode.

couldn’t they also bump the clocks in docked and add more cores for docked play? I was never talking about playing with different architectures

 

[StateofMajora]

Besides drastically higher clocks they maybe could enable more cores while docked

couldn’t they also bump the clocks in docked and add more cores for docked play? I was never talking about playing with different architectures

They wouldn't enable more cores in docked mode, just increase the clocks if they wanted to.

I mean there was that patent detailing supplemental computing aka more chips in the dock but I don't think that is practical. At that point, might as well make a tv only switch, which I also don't see happening.

 

[jufonuk]

Who cares I just want to play games.

 

[ResilientBanana]

OP, if you look up the latest Tegra information the Switch 2 could be around 1.4 TFLOPS (Tegra Xavier created in 2016) or better in comparison to the Steam Deck which sits at 1.6. The Tegra X1 was designed in 2015 and used in the Switch which released in 2017. The latest Tegra Chipset is pushing 4TFLOPS (Tegra Orin) so.. it might be possible to trump the Steam Deck in power. Only if Nintendo wants to go that route. There is also an Orin configuration that sits at 2TFLOPS which seems more likely when you think about battery life and size.

Tegra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[winjer]

If the A78 comes in CPU clusters of 4, Nintendo would pretty much have to go for 2 clusters unless they want to be at an even bigger CPU deficit vs. current gen than switch had vs. PS4.

4 cores might mean 1 core for os again, so 3 cores might not cut it for multiplats of next gen only games.

Orin can have up to 2000+ cuda cores, so Nintendo would probably use half that at best, or worst case, 512 cuda cores.

So worst case in my estimation is 512 ampere cores, 8 A78 cores but Nintendo may prove me wrong and use 4 cores -_- Maybe it'd be OK if they had a separate os chip but might as well add more cores in that case?

Either way for Nintendo's own games, the worst case orin chip is a huge leap over current switch.

Nintendo is very unlikely to be aiming at matching the performance of a current gen console, not in a portable device.
I would guess they would go for a Little.Big configuration. With 2 or 4 A78 cores. And a couple of A510 cores for the OS and background tasks.

The Orin SoC, is specifically made for the automotive industry. So it has many things that can be cut, to make a console SoC.
But it's a big chip, with 17B transistors, it's as big as the chip of a 3070 Ti , the full GA-104. And measures 392mm2.

Several things could be cut down, that are not needed on a portable console.
For example, Oring has 12 CPU cores A78AE. These could be cut to just 4. And be just A78, without the automotive instructions.
It also has a lot of tensor units for driving, resulting in 200 TOPs. This is more than a 3070, that only has 163 TOPs. Nintendo could choose to cut this figure to 80 TOPs, like a 3050.
Also has 4x 10 Gigabit Ethernet chips. The console would only need 1X 1 Gigabit Ethernet chip.

N5 is 1.84x improvement in logic density. So 17B transistors would be a bit bigger than 200mm2.
But with all that driving, AI, ethernet, etc, removed, it would go well under 200 mm2. Maybe close to 150mm2.
The Switch has an SoC that is 118mm2. If Nintendo would aim to a similar size chip, they would not need to remove many shader units.

 

[StateofMajora]

Nintendo is very unlikely to be aiming at matching the performance of a current gen console, not in a portable device.
I would guess they would go for a Little.Big configuration. With 2 or 4 A78 cores. And a couple of A510 cores for the OS and background tasks.

The Orin SoC, is specifically made for the automotive industry. So it has many things that can be cut, to make a console SoC.
But it's a big chip, with 17B transistors, it's as big as the chip of a 3070 Ti , the full GA-104. And measures 392mm2.

Several things could be cut down, that are not needed on a portable console.
For example, Oring has 12 CPU cores A78AE. These could be cut to just 4. And be just A78, without the automotive instructions.
It also has a lot of tensor units for driving, resulting in 200 TOPs. This is more than a 3070, that only has 163 TOPs. Nintendo could choose to cut this figure to 80 TOPs, like a 3050.
Also has 4x 10 Gigabit Ethernet chips. The console would only need 1X 1 Gigabit Ethernet chip.

N5 is 1.84x improvement in logic density. So 17B transistors would be a bit bigger than 200mm2.
But with all that driving, AI, ethernet, etc, removed, it would go well under 200 mm2. Maybe close to 150mm2.
The Switch has an SoC that is 118mm2. If Nintendo would aim to a similar size chip, they would not need to remove many shader units.

Well 8 78 cores wouldn't match the PS5 and series processor would it? I mean they are zen 2 mobile, but still.

Thinking more on it, 4 cores is most likely, but yeah I would hope they have a separate core(s) for OS. No way would they use just 2 A78 cores as a cluster, ccd whatever they call it is 4.

One thing I wouldn't expect is for them to be on the latest node. They only go to a newer node when the older node becomes more cost prohibitive as hardly any companies still use it. 20nm on original switch became antiquated faster than usual, it was an odd process.

Imo, 512 cuda, then a small batch of tensor cores is what we will get. Probably more than 8gb ram, maybe 10 or 12?

 

[winjer]

Well 8 78 cores wouldn't match the PS5 and series processor would it? I mean they are zen 2 mobile, but still.

Thinking more on it, 4 cores is most likely, but yeah I would hope they have a separate core(s) for OS. No way would they use just 2 A78 cores as a cluster, ccd whatever they call it is 4.

One thing I wouldn't expect is for them to be on the latest node. They only go to a newer node when the older node becomes more cost prohibitive as hardly any companies still use it. 20nm on original switch became antiquated faster than usual, it was an odd process.

Imo, 512 cuda, then a small batch of tensor cores is what we will get. Probably more than 8gb ram, maybe 10 or 12?

The thing is, we don't know when the Switch 2 is going to launch.
But in the second half of 2022, the N5 process node is not going to be the most advanced.
And in 2024-2025, the N3 is probably going to be old tech.

 

[StateofMajora]

The thing is, we don't know when the Switch 2 is going to launch.
But in the second half of 2022, the N5 process node is not going to be the most advanced.
And in 2024-2025, the N3 is probably going to be old tech.

True but to be honest I hope we get it spring of next year.

I say it again and again but I don't want prime 4 on this dinosaur hardware, Samus deserves the best xD

 

[cyberheater]

Nintendo dont purposely not chase graphics for there consoles,

That is exactly the case. They stopped chasing performance a long time ago and Nintendo fans have proven that they are not interested in high performance machines.

 

[Griffon]

Thinking about it... As a Steam deck owner, I wouldn't underestimate the fact that the switch is ARM based. It'll likely have a much more efficient power draw, paired with a good nvidia GPU and DLSS enabled at all time, it might end up much better than people think. It could be on par.

 

[playsaves3]

They wouldn't enable more cores in docked mode, just increase the clocks if they wanted to.

I mean there was that patent detailing supplemental computing aka more chips in the dock but I don't think that is practical. At that point, might as well make a tv only switch, which I also don't see happening.

what i mean is in handheld mode have some cpu cores disabled that become enabled when docked

 

[BadBurger]

just follow whatever Nvidia is doing w/ their mobile chips. theres your answer

This. Take whatever Nvidia was using in their SoC two or three years prior to the Switch 2's announcement, and odds are it will be a slightly customized version of it.

 

[Marvel14]

I don't give a shit about your drive by shit posting. Go bitch else where.

Dark angel dark angel won't you be mindless?
You're clickbaiting dear, don't love it at no time
I'm not your fool, but fools respond to you..

 

[tassletine]

"Why don't people REMEMBER that Nintendo do not chase the graphics race? "

Neither do Valve. They're even in that respect.

 

[Shut0wen]

That is exactly the case. They stopped chasing performance a long time ago and Nintendo fans have proven that they are not interested in high performance machines.

If performance was cheaper in anyway nintendo would go for it, after the gamecube they want every console to make a profit, rn there making a killing off machines and online services, i dont necessarily mind nintendo machines being under powered but the switch has ran its course imo, need a new machine thats atleast on par with xbox one x with dlss and afew ram to hit frames at stable 60

 

[soulbait]

Why do you care so much about people's speculations, no matter how unlikely they are?

 

[darkangel-212559]

The fact that the thread made to rival this one is even popular is ridiculous. It just goes to show how people pretend Nintendo cares about power. It'll never happen. That failed with the Gamecube.

Switch 2 will never be more powerful than the Steamdeck let alone coming close to PS4 power.

Stop believing in that rival thread. It's a delusion.

 

[MasterCornholio]

People need to stop posting in this thread. It was made to be my rival. The fact is Nintendo stopped with the power race with the Gamecube. That dream is dead.

It's time to accept reality and side with me in this thread WAR.

The fact that the thread made to rival this one is even popular is ridiculous. It just goes to show how people pretend Nintendo cares about power. It'll never happen. That failed with the Gamecube.

Switch 2 will never be more powerful than the Steamdeck let alone coming close to PS4 power.

Stop believing in that rival thread. It's a delusion.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I think that the switch 2 will be more powerful than the series S and not as powerful as the series X.

But it will have DLSS build in, so all games will run at 4k 60 with RT everything.

 

[MrA]

The fact that the thread made to rival this one is even popular is ridiculous. It just goes to show how people pretend Nintendo cares about power. It'll never happen. That failed with the Gamecube.

Switch 2 will never be more powerful than the Steamdeck let alone coming close to PS4 power.

Stop believing in that rival thread. It's a delusion.

You're the one that had the crazy switch is weaker than the 360 fantasy and got all salty when people pointed out nearly every ps360 to switch port ran at a better framerate and higher resolution then ran off crying about people claiming the switch 2 would rival the ps5 when nobody said that. And you seem extra salty when you whine people are posting in a thread dunking on yours

 

[blacktout]

The fact that the thread made to rival this one is even popular is ridiculous. It just goes to show how people pretend Nintendo cares about power. It'll never happen. That failed with the Gamecube.

Switch 2 will never be more powerful than the Steamdeck let alone coming close to PS4 power.

You do realize that Nintendo can not care about power and still release a device in 2023 that's more powerful than a device released in 2013, right?

I know the Switch 2 would have to be able to function as a handheld, but we're talking about *ten years* here. I dare you to find a handheld that's weaker than a console released ten years prior.

 

[darkangel-212559]

You're the one that had the crazy switch is weaker than the 360 fantasy and got all salty when people pointed out nearly every ps360 to switch port ran at a better framerate and higher resolution then ran off crying about people claiming the switch 2 would rival the ps5 when nobody said that. And you seem extra salty when you whine people are posting in a thread dunking on yours

I stand corrected. Xenoblade Chronicle 2 res on handheld is far worse than any 360 game.

 

[darkangel-212559]

but of switch 2 were to come out in 3 or 4 years time from now then technically it wont be far off from having near identical graphics as the ps5 while selling at a price far less then the ps5 but more then series s,.

That will never happen.

 

[darkangel-212559]

You do realize that Nintendo can not care about power and still release a device in 2023 that's more powerful than a device released in 2013, right?

I know the Switch 2 would have to be able to function as a handheld, but we're talking about *ten years* here. I dare you to find a handheld that's weaker than a console released ten years prior.

If we weren't talking about Nintendo I'd agree. Look I'm not saying the Switch 2 won't be more powerful, of course it will be. But on par with a Steam Deck or PS5? Sorry but that's just madness.

 

[Woopah]

If we weren't talking about Nintendo I'd agree. Look I'm not saying the Switch 2 won't be more powerful, of course it will be. But on par with a Steam Deck or PS5? Sorry but that's just madness.

Why couldn't it be more powerful than the Steam Deck? Especially once you take DLSS into account.

Few people expect PS5 level, but a generational leap in power would make it PS4 level.

 

[blacktout]

If we weren't talking about Nintendo I'd agree. Look I'm not saying the Switch 2 won't be more powerful, of course it will be. But on par with a Steam Deck or PS5? Sorry but that's just madness.

In the post I quoted, you said it would be less powerful than the PS4. Obviously it won't be more powerful than the PS5. No one (or almost no one) is saying it'll be more powerful than the PS5.

If it comes out in the next couple of years, it'll probably be comparable to the Steam Deck, but different enough in its abilities to make direct comparison difficult.

 

[Shut0wen]

That will never happen.

How not? Once compent shortage has been sorted there with be a huge influx because whenever there is shortages there will be to many of made of said shortages, making it incredibly cheap, it wont be far off a ps5 , 100% be in between an xbox one x and a ps5 but i doubt it would have 4k support

 

[STARSBarry]

I think the issue here is that Nintendo understand they need to prioritise battery life alongside the power of the machine, the steam deck priorities maximising power at reduced portability (its chunky) and limited time not connected to a mains when gaming.

You can't have both, not without a dramatic increase in battery size. So no I doubt what ever is next from Nintendo will be a steam deck because I can't see them keeping the portability and battery life if they do, which are key selling points for alot of people.