• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Care for some Immortality, Inc. stocks?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chrono

Banned
The future's going to be crazy.

Los Angeles, California— you’re under age 30, it is likely that you will be able to live as long as you want. That is, barring accidents and wars, you have centuries of healthy life ahead of you. So the participants in the Longevity Summit convened in Manhattan Beach, California, contend. Over the weekend Maximum Life Foundation president David Kekich gathered a group of scientists, entrepreneurs, and visionaries to meet for three days with the goal of developing a scientific and business strategy to make extreme human life extension a real possibility within a couple of decades. Kekich dubbed the effort the Manhattan Beach Project.

Tech entrepreneur and futurist Ray Kurzweil opened the conference with a virtual presentation on exponential technology trends that are bringing the prospect of achieving longevity escape velocity ever closer. “We are very close to the tipping point in human longevity,” asserted Kurzweil to the conferees. “We are about 15 years away from adding more than one year of longevity per year to remaining life expectancy.” This has been labeled by summiteer and life-extension guru Aubrey de Grey as longevity escape velocity. Achieving escape velocity, according to Kekich, would mean that “your projected day of reckoning moves further away from you rather than closing in on you.”

Health and medicine will be a million times more powerful in 20 years,” Kurzweil declared. He predicted that the complexity of biology will yield to the exponential powers of applied information technology and take off. He cited Moore’s Law which predicts doubling of microchip functionality and halving their costs every two years. The decrease in cost and increase in speed of sequencing whole human genomes is outpacing even Moore’s Law. In 2000, the first genome was sequenced after 14 years and at a cost of $3 billion. Now various startups offer the potential to sequence an individual’s DNA for less than $100 in under an hour.

The goal of the summit was to devise scientific and business strategies with the goal of demonstrating the capability to reverse aging in an older human being by 2029. By then, Kurzweil argued, people will be beginning their intimate merger with information technologies, biotechnologies, and nanotechnologies. Kurzweil, age 61, emphasized, “Something I am personally interested in is not just designer babies, but designer baby boomers.”

Going Back to Move Forward

Anti-aging research is a rich and varied territory right now. Researchers are finally beginning to get a handle on the actual causes of aging. With this increased scientific understanding, some researchers now believe they are on the way to figuring out how to stop it, and—eventually—how to reverse it.

University of California, Riverside biochemist Stephen Spindler reported on his research seeking caloric restriction mimetics. It is well established that restricting many mammal species to about two-thirds of what they would ordinarily eat extends their healthy lifespans. For example, calorie restricted mice live up to 50 percent longer, and experience less heart disease and cancer than those who eat as much as they want. Spindler is now screening a variety of compounds including pharmaceuticals to see if they mimic the effects of calorie restriction in mice. He presented early results that show that some compounds, like cholesterol lowering statin drugs and the immune suppressant rapamycin, do seem to increase mouse lifespans. However, Spindler added that more is not necessarily better. Mice receiving combinations of compounds are not living any longer. “I personally would caution people taking large amounts of supplements in combination to be careful,” said Spindler. The good news is that several major pharmaceutical companies are working on calorie restriction mimetics known as sirtuins.

Michael Rose, a biologist at the University of California, Irvine, has been breeding long-lived fruit flies to one another for decades. Rose’s work is built on the premise that natural selection is the cause of aging. Specifically, natural selection works to keep organisms healthy and alive until after they have reproduced. Once they’ve reproduced, natural selection no longer works to prevent the accumulation of damage that leads to aging and death. Your body is no longer needed by your germ cells once their genes have moved on to the bodies of your children.

Using artificial selection for longevity, Rose has produced fruit flies that live four times longer than normal, the human equivalent of being healthy at age 300. The Methuselah flies are more fecund and better at handling environmental stresses than are normal flies. Since fruit flies and humans share many similar genes, insights garnered from the genomics of long-lived flies are being used by Genescient LLC to develop anti-aging supplements for people. The company plans to release its first product in 2010. “In my world biological immortality is possible,” said Rose.

William Andrews, head of Sierra Sciences (motto “Cure Aging or Die Trying”) talked about his company’s project to identify compounds that lengthen telomeres. Why do that? Telomeres are repeated sequences of DNA that cap the ends of chromosomes to keep them from unraveling and to keep them from binding to other chromosomes. At conception, telomeres are about 15,000 repeats long. Each time a cell divides it loses about 100 repeats, growing ever shorter. When the repeats get short enough, cells generally receive a signal that tells them to die. Andrews argues that telomeres control aging in cells and thus control aging in us. A new study this month reports that centenarians have longer telomeres than controls do.

According to Andrews, when an adult’s telomeres get down to about 5,000 repeats they die of old age. By looking at telomere length in a blood sample, Andrews claimed, “I can tell how old you are and how long you have before you die of old age.” (For the curious, Spectracell offers a commercial telomere length test.) The only cells in our bodies that do not suffer telomere shortening are reproductive cells because the enzyme telomerase keeps adding new repeats as they divide. The goal of Sierra Sciences is to develop compounds that will reactivate telomerase in somatic cells to stop telomere shortening. After screening more than 160,000 compounds, Sierra has come up with 33 that activate telomerase and lengthen telomeres. “This would be the biggest thing to hit the planet, if we can turn these into drugs,’ said Andrews. Also represented at the summit was TA Sciences which manufactures a telomerase activator as a supplement called TA 65, which is derived from the astragalus plant. Cost? A mere $8,000 for a six month supply.

Why do some people live to be over 100 years old? That’s the question that Stephen Coles, head of the Supercentenarian Research Foundation (SRF) is trying to answer. Supercentenarians are people who are over 110 years old. In the world there are 76 currently validated supercentenarians, 72 are female and 4 are male. The genetic underpinnings of their longer lives are still murky. However, Coles has performed a number of autopsies and he has found that most died of senile cardiac amyloidosis, the accumulation of amyloid fibers in their heart muscles.

John Furber, founder of Legendary Pharmaceuticals, discussed the problem of accumulating crosslinked proteins and sugars inside and outside of cells, e.g., fibers like those that killed Coles' supercentenarians. The digestive organelles inside cells called lysosomes slowly become clogged with advanced glycation end-products (AGEs). The promise of one product that aimed to break up damaging crosslinks, alagebrium, has faded with the financial prospects of the company that developed it. If old fibroblasts, the cells that produce connective fibers, could be rejuvenated, say by restoring their telomere lengths, then, perhaps drug interventions like alagebrium might not be needed. Interestingly, there is some evidence that periodic fasting upregulates autophagy, the process by which cells digest accumulating cellular and extracellular junk.

Anti-aging research is not for the faint-hearted. Biologist Michael West was one of the founders of the biotech stem cell company Geron. He later founded Advanced Cell Technology which worked on therapeutic cloning. Therapeutic cloning, a.k.a somatic cell nuclear transfer, involves inserting nuclei from specific patients into human eggs to produce stem cells that are immunologically matched to those patients. The goal would be to transform these stem cells into other cells—nerve, muscle, immune system cells—which could be used to repair damaged or old tissues and organs.

That’s the theory, but no one has been able to perfect the practice; no stem cell lines have been derived from cloned human embryos so far. West now heads up BioTime, which is increasingly focused on using induced pluripotent stem cells (IPS cells). IPS cells are created by dosing normal adult cells, say skin cells, taken from a patient with various embryonic factors that cause it to revert to an earlier stage of development. IPS cells can be transformed into other types of cells which can be used to repair damage or rejuvenate tissues and organs. For example, new hemangioblasts, the precursor cells of blood, could be used to reconstitute and rejuvenate the human immune system.

Former biotech company founder Robert Bradbury proposed that the accumulation of misrepaired double strand breaks in the DNA that makes up our genes as a significant cause of aging. If a single strand is broken, the second strand functions as a template for guiding the proper repair of the broken one. Misrepaired genes make distorted proteins which do not work as well or not at all. By age 70, each cell averages several thousand double strand breaks. However, some cells are unscathed by these breaks. Bradbury is developing techniques to identify these “pristine stem cells” which he believes may be used to grow new organs and tissues to replace damaged or old ones. He points out that there are some 2,600 stem cell therapy trials currently underway in the U.S.

Gregory Fahy, the chief scientific officer of 21st Century Medicine is working on the cryopreservation of tissues and organs. Fahy pointed out that about one-third of people die of organ failure, e.g., heart attacks, kidney failure, and the like. The problem is that the ice crystals that form during freezing damage organs a lot. His company has developed a number of low toxicity cryoprotectants which enable the vitrification of organs as they cool. Vitrification prevents the formation of ice crystals and thus limits freeze damage. Vitrified corneal cells transplanted into the eyes of vervet monkeys work. Fahy has successfully transplanted a dog kidney kept at 0 degrees Celsius for four days.

Theoretical biogerontologist, Aubrey de Grey, the founder of the SENS Foundation and the Methuselah Foundation, is the energizer bunny of anti-aging scientific research and advocacy. SENS stands for Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence, which De Grey defines as “an integrated set of medical techniques designed to restore youthful molecular and cellular structure to aged tissues and organs.” De Grey focused on one proposed anti-aging solution which is to install mitochondrial genes in the nuclei of cells. One theory of aging is that the cellular powerhouses, the mitochondria, produce highly reactive molecules called free radicals as a side effect of generating energy to run cells. These free radicals over time cause mutations in mitochondrial genes which become ever more damaged, producing even more free radicals in a downward death spiral. If these mitochondrial genes could be moved to the more protected nucleus this free radical death spiral could be greatly attenuated. Engineering this migration from mitochondria to nucleus has been successful for one gene so far.

De Grey also addressed the problem of eliminating the damaging crosslinked proteins and sugars that clog cells and damage the extracellular matrix. The SENS Foundation is funding research to find enzymes in bacteria that degrade these organic complexes with the goal of turning them into drugs.

Beyond Biology

One major barrier to cracking the problem of aging is a shortage of researchers. Computer scientist Peter Voss, the founder of Adaptive Artificial Intelligence, aims to solve that researcher shortage by creating the equivalent of thousands of researchers and research assistants by means of artificial general intelligence. “Imagine hundreds of thousands of Ph.D.-level machines chipping away at the aging problem,” mused Voss. Two years ago at the Singularity Summit, Voss declared, "In my opinion AIs will be developed almost certainly in less than 10 years and quite likely in less than five years." At the Longevity Summit, Voss predicted that his artificially intelligent researchers would be ready in six years.

Biology is nanotechnology that works. Robert Freitas and Ralph Merkle, from the Institute for Molecular Manufacturing, outlined their vision of how a robust medical non-biological nanotechnology would work in 20 years or so. Freitas won the 2009 Feynman Prize for Theory, in recognition of his pioneering work in molecular mechanosynthesis. Nanotechnology aims to control matter at the atomic and molecular scale. “The difference between good and bad health is how your atoms are arranged,” pronounced Merkle. The goal of medical nanotechnology is to unleash exceedingly tiny machines to patrol throughout the body and its cells repairing damage as it occurs. They envision respirocytes to carry oxygen more efficiently than red blood cells; microbivores to attack and digest pathogens; and even chromallocytes to repair and replace damaged chromosomes.

In his presentation Kurzweil envisioned constant nanotech monitoring of individual brain cells. Such nanotech devices would “ultimately capture our mind files and back them up,” suggested Kurzweil. “A thousand years from now, people will think it pretty daunting the people today went through life without backing up their mind files every day.”


But what if you don’t live long enough to take advantage of the new longevity treatments coming along in a couple of decades? For example, this life expectancy calculator suggests that there is a 50 percent chance that I will live only another 33 years. Kekich, who convened the summit, urged participants to take good care of their health—diet, exercise, supplements, stress management—because they are not gambling on just 15 years more of life, but perhaps 1,500 years of life.

But what if the grim reaper comes despite your best efforts to stave him off? Ralph Merkle, in his role as a board member of the Alcor Life Extension Foundation, explained the goal of cryonics.
Cryonics involves storing human bodies or brains at the temperature of liquid nitrogen (320 degrees below zero Fahrenheit). Alcor defines cryonics as “a speculative life support technology that seeks to preserve human life in a state that will be viable and treatable by future medicine.” Or as Merkle put it, “We want a second opinion from a future physician.” The idea is that if brain structure is preserved, nanomedical devices would be able to restore a person to life sometime in the future. Merkle acknowledges that cryonics is highly experimental (to say the least), but we do also know what happens to the control group. Merkle ended with his standard quip, “So you have to decide if you want to be in the experimental group or the control group.”

Immortality, Inc.

Some the brainstormers in the business strategy session of the Manhattan Beach Project were new media entrepreneur and Disney executive Oliver Luckett, 2008 Libertarian Party VP candidate Wayne Allyn Root, computer and biotech entrepreneur Richard Offerdahl, marketing expert John Lustyan, social media marketer Michael Terpin, Lifestar Institute COO Kevin Perrott, CEO of TA Sciences Noel Patton, filmmaker Michael Potter, marketer Joe Sugarman, computer entrepreneur Ken Weiss, and Bill Faloon, co-founder of the Life Extension Foundation.

Hanging over the entire event was a single question: Why are so many people unaware of the tantalizing possibility of soon achieving extreme human life extension? And why do so many reject it when they hear about it? Luckett put his finger exactly on the chief problem. Aspiring to live for hundreds of years sounds creepy to most people. And the longevity “space” is filled nearly to the brim with scammers and charlatans, peddling all manner of 21st century snake oils.

To illustrate the creep-out factor, Luckett told the story of offering the trailer to the documentary about Ray Kurzweil, Transcendent Man, to run on his father’s campaign website (his father is running for governor of Mississippi). The campaign handlers took one look at it and said, “Keep that trailer as far away as possible. We can’t have a trailer talking about transcending religion being shown at the local Baptist church.”

As someone who has leveraged social media into several businesses, Luckett urged summiteers to focus their efforts on spreading their message using those new communications technologies. People trust new ideas that come from their friends. Of course, social media “friends” now include stars and athletes. Being in Tinsel Town, the assembled marketers spent some time brainstorming about which film or TV stars might take up the cause of promoting longevity research. Apparently, Suzanne Summers is an enthusiast, but I sure hope that the summiteers can find some other celebrities.

The summiteers also puzzled over the frustrating fact that no billionaire evidently wants to live forever. Why else have none come forward to finance serious life extension research? Entrepreneur Offerdahl explained that rich people fear the ridicule of their friends. Longevity quackery is rife and rich folks don’t want to suffer embarrassment in front their friends who would accuse them of being dupes. Like all non-profit efforts, the summiteers longed to find one billionaire who would risk ridicule to support serious life extension research.

How much cash is needed to get a good start on the goal of stopping aging by 2024 and demonstrating that it can be reversed by 2029? Kekich crunched numbers to come with a figure of a mere $63 million to jump start a future of perpetual youth. Of course some avenues are already being explored by well-funded biotech and pharmaceutical companies, e.g. calorie restriction mimetics like sirtuins. After batting around a few ideas, the group finally focused on a proposal by Bill Faloon to create a public life extension research company. The goal of the corporation would be raise money to invest specifically in companies that research technologies aiming to stop and reverse aging, not just treat diseases. The Manhattan Beach Project participants would seek to raise an initial $5 million before bringing the company to the public. Faloon and another participant committed a million dollars to the project. One idea was to call it MaxLife Capital, but my favorite proposed corporate moniker was Immortality, Inc.

At the end of the summit, David Kekich’s poignant question still resonates: “Will you be part of the last generation to die from aging, or will you be part the first generation to enjoy open-ended youth and vitality?”


Ronald Bailey is Reason's science correspondent. His book Liberation Biology: The Scientific and Moral Case for the Biotech Revolution is available from Prometheus Books.

http://reason.com/archives/2009/11/17/the-methuselah-manifesto/singlepage
 

Chrono

Banned
Biological immortality not a big deal on GAF...? Think of seeing E3 a hundred years from now! :lol

Edit: dammit just noticed the typo in the title. =\
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Who the hell actually wants this? i dont mean fantasies about yourself living forever but the reality of billions of people that do not die. 1500 years of working your fingers to the bone? No thanks.
 

msv

Member
Number 2 said:
Who the hell actually wants this? i dont mean fantasies about yourself living forever but the reality of billions of people that do not die. 1500 years of working your fingers to the bone? No thanks.
Cool. I'll live on for 1500 years and go explore the galaxy and have sex with tons of hot alien chick, have some awesome space-battles and check out the galactic scenery, kthx.
 

Chrono

Banned
Number 2 said:
Who the hell actually wants this? i dont mean fantasies about yourself living forever but the reality of billions of people that do not die. 1500 years of working your fingers to the bone? No thanks.

Nobody's going to work in the future - AI/Robots will do everything. If you want to you probably could, you won't have to. Scarcity will end and resources will be abundant and standards of living will rise way beyond any imaginable level right now. How that will work with automation though, I don't know. Will there be a class of rich people, the ones that owned stocks in the companies that brought about the singularity, and poor ones that depend on them? There are different views, but I'm optimistic. Only scary thing is the power individuals will have to create advanced self-replicating weaponry like a super virus and whatever the hell nanotechnology will make possible.
 

Chrono

Banned
agrajag said:
With all those fucking advancements, and they still can't find a cure for baldness. Grrr.

Growing hair will happen relatively soon, I think I've already seen progress in that on a blog I frequent but I can't remember the specific entry.

Other things will be grown too from a new heart to new teeth, this stuff is really going to happen.

I'm guessing penis-enlargement will then also follow, oh boy, the money that industry will make. :lol
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
Sounds nice on the face of it, but where are we going to put all those billions of people who would supposedly live 1,500 years? Seems like life on Earth would get pretty uncomfortable.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
kennah said:
But what are the long-term effects?
It will jumpstart space flight research as the rapid consumption of Earth's resources inevitably forces us to find a new home for the centuries old population.

Of course whoever discovers viable space flight first will try to hold a monopoly on it. Nations will begin to take military measures in an attempt to seize the technology by force, sparking World War III.

After Earth is decimated by the ensuing conflict, the survivors retreat to enclaves supported by advanced technology developed during the war. Population growth will be harshly restricted in these havens, and their reliance on technology will slowly erode their physical capabilities.

Countries that cannot afford this technology will revert to primitive societies where the average life expectancy is 30 years. After many subsequent generations living under a weak ozone-layer, they will become a subspecies altogether.

But that's all in the long term you understand.
 

Javaman

Member
I don't think it is going to be as simple as they are making it out to be. There is always going to be a weak link that will do us in. Fix one and another part becomes our weakness. Sure, maybe they could extend life out to 150 years, but the human body is so freaking complicated. They can't fix/prevent everything.
 

Dandy

Member
I will sign up to be a guinea pig for any experiments that have the potential to make me biologically immortal.
 

Chrono

Banned
Lost Fragment said:
Sounds nice on the face of it, but where are we going to put all those billions of people who would supposedly live 1,500 years? Seems like life on Earth would get pretty uncomfortable.

Plenty of room on earth, imagine buildings the size of small cities, that go up to heights engineers can only dream of right now. Just think of the coolest sci-fi cities. Maybe cities will expand into the seas/oceans like Dubai is doing, but on a much larger scale.

Also, the obvious answer here is SPACE! :D

Living for thousands of years or even more is going to be just one application of the technologies advancing rapidly right now. They'll open the door to space, and colonies the size of earth will practically build themselves with nanotechnology/robotics/AI. :D
 

agrajag

Banned
Javaman said:
I don't think it is going to be as simple as they are making it out to be. There is always going to be a weak link that will do us in. Fix one and another part becomes our weakness. Sure, maybe they could extend life out to 150 years, but the human body is so freaking complicated. They can't fix/prevent everything.

They need to research those crabs that don't age.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I think the problem is that they are not as close as they think they are (seems more wishful thinking than reality). Another problem is that the vast majority of people are more likely to outlive their wealth. No one wants to live forever if they are poor. A remedy for that maybe allowing people to live as a conscience in the ether of the internet. But that also poses a problem as people would want to experience life as regular humans do.

So, it no surprise that billionaires aren't knocking down their door. They didn't get mega wealthy by passing their money out to pie-in-the-sky ideas. I hope it happens in our lifetime, but I am skeptical.

In some sense we are living in the dark ages in regards to science and how it can make us a better organism. I think it's almost going to take a literal break from this planet (akin to people coming to the New World in the 1500's) for us to rethink what humanity is and foster and encourage changes made to it.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
The future is indeed an interesting prospect, almost makes me wish it was 20 years from now, almost.
 

Binabik15

Member
300 years old GAF, would you do a 90 year old?

No, what the fuck is wrong with you, pedo!

And most people under thirty shouldn´t be allowed to live any longer, to ypu want to spend eternity with people texting every ten seconds about twilight?
 

RevoDS

Junior Member
Binabik15 said:
300 years old GAF, would you do a 90 year old?

No, what the fuck is wrong with you, pedo!

And most people under thirty shouldn´t be allowed to live any longer, to ypu want to spend eternity with people texting every ten seconds about twilight?
300/2=150+7=157.

Nope.
 

Seth C

Member
I just turned 30. All I can say is please fucking hurry, guys. I want to live forever.

Javaman said:
I don't think it is going to be as simple as they are making it out to be. There is always going to be a weak link that will do us in. Fix one and another part becomes our weakness. Sure, maybe they could extend life out to 150 years, but the human body is so freaking complicated. They can't fix/prevent everything.

The way this is envisioned to work is that by extending the average life to 150, scientists live longer and build on their research. If you are alive when life gets extended to 150, before you die life can be extended further, and further. We don't go from death at 80 to immortality at once. But by continually adding to the expectancy everyone who was alive for the first extension is around for the final goal.
 

GodofWine

Member
Immortality would kill everyone.

also

Without death, life is meaningless.

I'd also think suicide would become the number one cause of death.
 

Chrono

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
I think the problem is that they are not as close as they think they are (seems more wishful thinking than reality). Another problem is that the vast majority of people are more likely to outlive their wealth. No one wants to live forever if they are poor. A remedy for that maybe allowing people to live as a conscience in the ether of the internet. But that also poses a problem as people would want to experience life as regular humans do.

So, it no surprise that billionaires aren't knocking down their door. They didn't get mega wealthy by passing their money out to pie-in-the-sky ideas. I hope it happens in our lifetime, but I am skeptical.

In some sense we are living in the dark ages in regards to science and how it can make us a better organism. I think it's almost going to take a literal break from this planet (akin to people coming to the New World in the 1500's) for us to rethink what humanity is and foster and encourage changes made to it.

Well, there are a lot of smart people who are saying it's happening soon.

But yeah, it could all be much further away.

In a way it's not too bad, I think I'm young enough to make it, and I'd like as many old people to die permanently and take with them as much ignorance/bigotry/tradition as possible. Sounds cruel but eh, I'll be living in a better world.

agrajag said:

Cool, I've seen that before. This stuff will eventually be as cheap (or even cheaper) to build as any 6 story building. The building would just grow, like a tree. :D

Edit: much faster than a tree though. :p
 
Lost Fragment said:
Sounds nice on the face of it, but where are we going to put all those billions of people who would supposedly live 1,500 years? Seems like life on Earth would get pretty uncomfortable.


I imagine they'll spend most of their time in more-real-than-life VR pods.

Shard said:
The future is indeed an interesting prospect, almost makes me wish it was 20 years from now, almost.

I'd enjoy it while it lasts to be honest.
 

John Dunbar

correct about everything
GodofWine said:
Immortality would kill everyone.

also

Without death, life is meaningless.

I'd also think suicide would become the number one cause of death.

Personally, I'd argue that death makes life meaningless.

And since suicide will always be an option, why would anyone have a problem with this? Of course everyone would still eventually die. Things that are unlikely to kill you now, like car crashes or falling pianos, would go from "unlikely" to "inevitable". Live forever and it's only a matter of time.
 

Binabik15

Member
ToxicAdam said:
What if she were a mature 90 year old?

OMG there need to be LAWS to keep sick fucks like you in check! She hasen´t even lived a full century yet, that´s like molesting a toddler!


And if I´m to get immortal, I want nano-material muscles, too, to punch boulders and jump miles!
 

Javaman

Member
Seth C said:
I just turned 30. All I can say is please fucking hurry, guys. I want to live forever.



The way this is envisioned to work is that by extending the average life to 150, scientists live longer and build on their research. If you are alive when life gets extended to 150, before you die life can be extended further, and further. We don't go from death at 80 to immortality at once. But by continually adding to the expectancy everyone who was alive for the first extension is around for the final goal.

That is a very good point. The sad thing is that we spend our whole lives learning and relearning what our parents and other have already done just to take most of it to the grave. The first 15 to 20 years of our lives is wasted just learning the same basics over and over again, every generation.
 
John Dunbar said:
Personally, I'd argue that death makes life meaningless.

And since suicide will always be an option, why would anyone have a problem with this? Of course everyone would still eventually die. Things that are unlikely to kill you now, like car crashes or falling pianos, would go from "unlikely" to "inevitable". Live forever and it's only a matter of time.

It wouldn't be crashes or falling pianos, it would probably be astronomical events. Ultimately, entropy. Simple deaths will be counteracted by the eventual possibility to create backup versions of our existences. It would take an event on a much larger scale, something that would wipe out all backups, to truly cause a death.

Something people don't understand is that reproduction in society is tied to the number of children people need to sustain themselves. It's the reason why, in developed nations, people have few children, whereas in third world nations, they have many. As the world became developed, reproduction would probably tail off. It's possible that in an immortal society reproduction would fall to the level where it only replaced those lost to accident or suicide. There are theories out there saying that human population will plateau at 9 Billion, and perhaps even fall after that point. I think that's a lowball estimate, personally, but after reading the reasoning it makes some sense.

I can't wait for immortality, personally. Especially when I get my cybernetic enhancements.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Why the fuck is a lot of people's future predictions so grim when it comes to humans living for a long time?

Relax people.
 

Chrono

Banned
Binabik15 said:
And if I´m to get immortal, I want nano-material muscles, too, to punch boulders and jump miles!

Imagine that you are aboard a space station, spun to simulate Earth's normal gravity. After instruction, you have been given a suit to try out: there it hangs on the wall, a gray, rubbery-looking thing with a transparent helmet. You take it down, heft its substantial weight, strip, and step in through the open seam on the front.

The suit feels softer than the softest rubber, but has a slick inner surface. It slips on easily and the seam seals at a touch. It provides a skintight covering like a thin leather glove around your fingers, thickening as it runs up your arm to become as thick as your hand in the region around your torso. Behind your shoulders, scarcely noticeable, is a small backpack. Around your head, almost invisible, is the helmet. Below your neck the suits inner surface hugs your skin with a light, uniform touch that soon becomes almost imperceptible.

You stand up and walk around, experimenting. You bounce on your toes and feel no extra weight from the suit. You bend and stretch and feel no restraint, no wrinkling, no pressure points. When you rub your fingers together they feel sensitive, as if bare - but somehow slightly thicker. As you breathe, the air tastes clean and fresh. In fact, you feel that you could forget that you are wearing a suit at all. What is more, you feel just as comfortable when you step out into the vacuum of space.

The suit manages to do all this and more by means of complex activity within a structure having a texture almost as intricate as that of living tissue. A glove finger a millimeter thick has room for a thousand micron-thick layers of active nanomachinery and nanoelectronics. A fingertip-sized patch has room for a billion mechanical nanocomputers, with 99.9 percent of the volume left over for other components.

In particular, this leaves room for an active structure. The middle layer of the suit material holds a three-dimensional weave of diamond-based fibers acting much like artificial muscle, but able to push as well as pull (as discussed in the Notes). These fibers take up much of the volume and make the suit material as strong as steel. Powered by microscopic electric motors and controlled by nanocomputers, they give the suit material its supple strength, making it stretch, contract, and bend as needed. When the suit felt soft earlier, this was because it had been programmed to act soft. The suit has no difficulty holding its shape in a vacuum; it has strength enough to avoid blowing up like a balloon. Likewise, it has no difficulty supporting its own weight and moving to match your motions, quickly, smoothly, and without resistance. This is one reason why it almost seems not to be there at all.

Your fingers feel almost bare because you feel the texture of what you touch. This happens because pressure sensors cover the suit's surface and active structure covers its lining: the glove feels the shape of whatever you touch - and the detailed pattern of pressure it exerts - and transmits the same texture pattern to your skin. It also reverses the process, transmitting to the outside the detailed pattern of forces exerted by your skin on the inside of the glove. Thus the glove pretends that it isn't there, and your skin feels almost bare.

The suit has the strength of steel and the flexibility of your own body. If you reset the suit's controls, the suit continues to match your motions, but with a difference. Instead of simply transmitting the forces you exert, it amplifies them by a factor of ten. Likewise, when something brushes against you, the suit now transmits only a tenth of the force to the inside. You are now ready for a wrestling match with a gorilla.

The fresh air you breathe may not seem surprising; the backpack includes a supply of air and other consumables. Yet after a few days outside in the sunlight, your air will not run out: like a plant, the suit absorbs sunlight and the carbon dioxide you exhale, producing fresh oxygen. Also like a plant (or a whole ecosystem), it breaks down other wastes into simple molecules and reassembles them into the molecular patterns of fresh, wholesome food. In fact, the suit will keep you comfortable, breathing, and well fed almost anywhere in the inner solar system.

What is more, the suit is durable. It can tolerate the failure of numerous nanomachines because it has so many others to take over the load. The space between the active fibers leaves room enough for assemblers and disassemblers to move about and repair damaged devices. The suit repairs itself as fast as it wears out.

Within the bounds of the possible, the suit could have many other features. A speck of material smaller than a pinhead could hold the text of every book ever published, for display on a fold-out screen. Another speck could be a "seed" containing the blueprints for a range of devices greater than the total the human race has yet built, along with replicating assemblers able to make any or all of them.

What is more, fast technical AI systems like those described in the last chapter could design the suit in a morning and have it built by afternoon.

http://e-drexler.com/d/06/00/EOC/EOC_Chapter_6.html

:D :D :D :D :D
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Bit-Bit said:
Why the fuck is a lot of people's future predictions so grim when it comes to humans living for a long time?

Relax people.

Because a large amount of people believe in an apocalypse of some kind. Even those that don't believe in god. It's almost like a manifest destiny for them. I don't know if it is just a byproduct of anxiety and lots of free time, or something from our evolutionary past that helped us survive.
 
bug_jackbarron.jpg


I think if we find a way to become immortal, before we can fix all the issues we already have with the limited, or unfairly distributed, resources, it won't spell much good for the Earth.
 

Chrono

Banned
Binabik15 said:
Np, no, no! I don´t want to see fat people in skin tight suits!

There will be no fat people in the future! :lol

Unless somebody chooses to be fat though, for character or something.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Powdered Toastman said:
bug_jackbarron.jpg


I think if we find a way to become immortal, before we can fix all the issues we already have with the limited, or unfairly distributed, resources, it won't spell much good for the Earth.

Smart people doing the research. They will be able to continue their research and finish it at a much faster pace while more people join them.

There will be a point where there will be enough smart minds working, solving every problem we can come up with.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Chrono said:
There will be no fat people in the future! :lol

Unless somebody chooses to be fat though, for character or something.

Yeah, new stem cell research can take your fat out while making your boobs bigger. The future is going to be sexy.
 

Binabik15

Member
Chrono said:
There will be no fat people in the future! :lol

Unless somebody chooses to be fat though, for character or something.

Nobody today has an excuse to be fat, either*. Doesn´t stop people from getting so fat that healtcare costs explode.

*Except those people that are really only fat because of some rare diseases, but how many are that? Five?

Anyway I want those muscles inside me, instead of deadlifting 185 kg and aiming for 200 I could start aiming for 20 tons :D Oh, and of course I want my bones coated with something that makes them super durable.
 

Seth C

Member
Javaman said:
That is a very good point. The sad thing is that we spend our whole lives learning and relearning what our parents and other have already done just to take most of it to the grave. The first 15 to 20 years of our lives is wasted just learning the same basics over and over again, every generation.


Exactly.

Just as an example, if we had a 150 year life expectancy Albert Einstein would still be with us for another 20 years or so. Just imagine what that could have meant for scientific development.
 

Chrono

Banned
Binabik15 said:
Nobody today has an excuse to be fat, either*. Doesn´t stop people from getting so fat that healtcare costs explode.

*Except those people that are really only fat because of some rare diseases, but how many are that? Five?

Anyway I want those muscles inside me, instead of deadlifting 185 kg and aiming for 200 I could start aiming for 20 tons :D Oh, and of course I want my bones coated with something that makes them super durable.

Losing fat will be incredibly easy, unlike now, nobody will have an excuse when it's just taking a pill a day or when you're eating that stake or getting some gene therapy or nanotech enhancement at a clinic.

And if you don't want that suit and instead prefer to directly enhance your muscles and bones, that will be possible too. Check out Radical Evolution, excellent book. The beginning talks about a DARPA program for super soldiers. Awesome stuff. It's not just strength but also intelligence and other cool stuff, imagine just needing to sleep 4-6 hours... a week.
 

mclem

Member
Los Angeles, California— you’re under age 30, it is likely that you will be able to live as long as you want. That is, barring accidents and wars, you have centuries of healthy life ahead of you. So the participants in the Longevity Summit convened in Manhattan Beach, California, contend.

I turned 30 two days ago.

Damn.
 

RedShift

Member
If combined with colonizing the rest of the solar system, awesome. Time to start terraforming already.

I'm 17, suck on it old guys
 

thefro

Member
There wouldn't be many drawbacks to aging when you have nanotech, stem cells, biotech, and cyborg-type robotics all working in concert. You should be able to maintain an excellent quality of life.

What would be scary is you'd know the only thing you could die of would be of a apocalypse (i.e. comet/asteroid hits the earth, supervolcano, massive earthquake buries you and it's too late after they recover your body), etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom