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Comics Are Dead, Long Live Manga!

CAPSOL

Member
Seems like a lot of us are stuck in our little (comics or manga) bubbles with no desire to seek out the best graphic novels out there.
 

sol_bad

Member
It’s as if overwhelming a post with images and canned blurbs is considered persuasive.

Talk about hyperbole.
Someone asked my opinion and I gave it with images of the art style for each book. In saying that, do you read comics?
 

O-N-E

Member
The screenshots posted here don’t make me want to go back to traditional western comics.

It's funny seeing them being brought as an example of something on par or better than manga.

Laughable, really.

 

tsumake

Member
And your favorite books over the last 5-10 years?

A purity test, then? Ok. I haven’t been particularly enamored with current comics. I like Azzarello quite a bit - he’s a great writer. I liked his work on “Batman : Master Race.,”

The “Future’s End” series was also very well written. Ending was a bit meh though.

Tried reading through DCeased - some good writing but it got boring with the pronoun superheroes.

In terms of visuals, I find it all boilerplate these days. You don’t have anything as interesting as Miller or Mignola or Russo. I wouldn’t doubt the technical skill of current artists - it’s just my preference.

I think there was a post here describing the differences between manga and comics, and mostly agree. As much as I do like the written word having enormous text bubbles defeats the purpose of the medium.
 

sol_bad

Member
A purity test, then? Ok. I haven’t been particularly enamored with current comics. I like Azzarello quite a bit - he’s a great writer. I liked his work on “Batman : Master Race.,”

The “Future’s End” series was also very well written. Ending was a bit meh though.

Tried reading through DCeased - some good writing but it got boring with the pronoun superheroes.

In terms of visuals, I find it all boilerplate these days. You don’t have anything as interesting as Miller or Mignola or Russo. I wouldn’t doubt the technical skill of current artists - it’s just my preference.

I think there was a post here describing the differences between manga and comics, and mostly agree. As much as I do like the written word having enormous text bubbles defeats the purpose of the medium.

Purity test? I am just trying to spark a conversation about a hobby I love but you basically said it yourself, it's not a hobby for you.

Miller and Mignola certainly have a unique style. For Miller, Sin City and 300 IMO are his best books, although I haven't read his Daredevil yet. His art is an absolute disaster in Holy Terror though and it's also bad in Xerxes, that might be the colourists fault though. Mignola I've only read a few TPB's for Hellboy so I don't have much to say. I want to buy the hardcovers now but there is a lot to get. I don't know who Russo is.

I recently added Faithless to my Comixology wishlist which is written by Azarello so I'll get around to that some time.

I know art is subjective but apart from Sin City which uses white space in a very unique way, majority of art from Miller and Mignola feels simplistic compared to the art in the Image books I suggested in my post that you mocked. Matteo Scalera, Wes Craig and Dustin Nguyen are far better. I'm currently reading Low from Rick Remender in the oversized hardcover format and Greg Tocchino's are is absolutely phenomenal, I remember reading the first 3 issues years ago and the standard comic size didn't do the art justice at all.

Also, the person that that mentioned comics has too much text compared to manga doesn't read much manga either. Some manga is stacked with text. I'm currently reading Rosario + Vampire and some pages are bogged with text, some aren't.

Have you tried actively reading anything outside of DC? Are there any genres or themes that interest you when it comics to comics? Or any particular manga that you like?
 

tsumake

Member
Purity test? I am just trying to spark a conversation about a hobby I love but you basically said it yourself, it's not a hobby for you.

Miller and Mignola certainly have a unique style. For Miller, Sin City and 300 IMO are his best books, although I haven't read his Daredevil yet. His art is an absolute disaster in Holy Terror though and it's also bad in Xerxes, that might be the colourists fault though. Mignola I've only read a few TPB's for Hellboy so I don't have much to say. I want to buy the hardcovers now but there is a lot to get. I don't know who Russo is.

I recently added Faithless to my Comixology wishlist which is written by Azarello so I'll get around to that some time.

I know art is subjective but apart from Sin City which uses white space in a very unique way, majority of art from Miller and Mignola feels simplistic compared to the art in the Image books I suggested in my post that you mocked. Matteo Scalera, Wes Craig and Dustin Nguyen are far better. I'm currently reading Low from Rick Remender in the oversized hardcover format and Greg Tocchino's are is absolutely phenomenal, I remember reading the first 3 issues years ago and the standard comic size didn't do the art justice at all.

Also, the person that that mentioned comics has too much text compared to manga doesn't read much manga either. Some manga is stacked with text. I'm currently reading Rosario + Vampire and some pages are bogged with text, some aren't.

Have you tried actively reading anything outside of DC? Are there any genres or themes that interest you when it comics to comics? Or any particular manga that you like?

It’s quite presumptive of you to determine the weight of my opinion, as with anyone else on this thread. If you enjoy current comics by all means. I was merely commenting on the form of argument. But you knew that, right?

As I said before I am not interested in the current comic scene and I don’t feel obliged to find exceptions. I am happy to read older fare that I missed.
 

sol_bad

Member
It’s quite presumptive of you to determine the weight of my opinion, as with anyone else on this thread. If you enjoy current comics by all means. I was merely commenting on the form of argument. But you knew that, right?

As I said before I am not interested in the current comic scene and I don’t feel obliged to find exceptions. I am happy to read older fare that I missed.

No idea what you mean by presumptive. Your opinion is yours and my opinion is mine. Neither is right or wrong.
Cool conversation!

#EDIT*
Are you reading any older books that you enjoy?
 
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O-N-E

Member
I tried to look into this fairly thoroughly a little while ago, and by my estimate, the best offerings purely based on art in western comics are -
  • Miller
  • Mignola
  • Moebius
  • Buscema
  • Wrightson
This is not judged from a technical point of view, but from aesthetic interest. There's plenty that can draw anatomically correct figures and all that, and while those are good skills to have, the results are mostly a bore.

In manga, there's just a plethora of interesting, eye-catching choices. They make better use of the basics.
 

tsumake

Member
I tried to look into this fairly thoroughly a little while ago, and by my estimate, the best offerings purely based on art in western comics are -
  • Miller
  • Mignola
  • Moebius
  • Buscema
  • Wrightson
This is not judged from a technical point of view, but from aesthetic interest. There's plenty that can draw anatomically correct figures and all that, and while those are good skills to have, the results are mostly a bore.

In manga, there's just a plethora of interesting, eye-catching choices. They make better use of the basics.

What are the biggest Western comics in Japan, if any?
 

CAPSOL

Member
American comics are just stale as fuck, especially the oversaturation of superhero comics.

The cool thing about Manga and I think the greatest appeal is that there's literally something for everything and everyone.
The variety is insane.
Both for good and bad that is, there's some shady and questionable stuff but people tend to get hung up on that a lot.
But if you're really into cooking for example there's actual Manga and Anime for that, and that in turn might make you try something else I think it acts like a gateway into it.
There's a lot of variety in western comics if you look passed the Big 2. It's the same with anything, you have to look past the popular trends to find the real gems.
 
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Amiga Amiga

Image Comics.

Black Science - Written by Rick Remender and drawn by Matteo Scalera, quite frankly one of the best teams I've seen in comicdom. The basic premise is about Grant Mackay creating a device that opens the doorway to other realities. He, 5 of his co-workers and his 2 children are taken to a new reality and the device is sabotaged so they have no way home. The device randomly teleports them to new realities, sometimes they are in a reality for 5 minutes, sometimes for days or weeks. So it is about them trying to get back home to their reality.



Deadly Class - Also written by Rick Remender, drawn by Wes Craig and coloured by Lee Loughridge, I'm mentioning the colourist as he adds a real unique identity to the series. The story revolves around Marcus Lopez who is an orphan living on the streets, set in the 1980's. He ends up being enrolled into a school of assassins so it's about him, his life, his past, why he is an orphan and him getting to know his classmates, learning about love and dealing with the struggles within the school.



Decender - Writen by Jeff Lemire and drawn by Dustin Nguyen. Sci-fi setting in the far future where the universe basically hates robots and destroys almost all of them. Enter TIM-21, one of the last remaining robots who is wanted by the United Galactic Council. You'll need to read the book to find out why robots are hated. It has a sequel series called Ascender which I haven't read yet, it's final issue comes out within the net month or two.



East of West -Written by Jonathan Hickman, another God tier writer and drawn by Nick Dragotta. Another perfect paring in bring this future dystopian alternate reality world to life. A world where the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are real and instead of USA having 52 states it has 7 nations of America who all agreed to a truce due to a comet hitting Earth. Will the Horsemen accomplish their prophecies or is there more at play here?


Kill or be Killed - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Sean Phillips, this duo has actually done a lot of books together including Criminal, Fatale and The Fade Out. This book explores vigilantism and is about Dylan who is saved from suicide by a demon, the demon tells him that if he wants to continue living he needs to provide a soul at least once a month. This requires him to murder someone so he goes about his duty trying to work out who is deserving of dying.


Lazerus - Writen by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark. This book is unfortunately not completed 100% but it's really good. There are 28 standard issues, then there are 6 X+66 issues that focus on supporting characters, and finally there are the Lazerus Risen issues which is up to #6, I personally haven't caught up on the Risen issues yet. It's another dystopian future of soughts where there world is controlled by families instead of governments. Each government has a Lazerus which is like a protector of the family, some of them have cybernetic enhancements, some have enhanced abilities, some aren't enhanced at all. The narrative focuses on Forever Carlyle and her family secret.




Saga - Written by Brian K Vaugn and drawn by Fiona Staples, easily one of my favourite comics. I must warn you that this story is still not finished and has a cliffhanger that will drive you insane. The last issue released in February 2018 and it's unknown when Brian and Fiona will release more issues. Sci-fi setting with a Romeo and Juliet inspired narrative where we follow Marko and Alana as they try to survive and hide from bounty hunters who are after them. There are LGBTQ characters in the story so the sensitive people in the thread may want to stay away.


Sex Criminals - Written by Matt Fraction and drawn by Chip Zdarsky. Nice little comedic story about Jon and Suzie who end up sleeping together after a party and finding out that they share a special ability/power. They use this power to do all sorts of things and it gets them in all sorts of trouble. The less said about this story the better.
It's honestly hard to find images that don't spoil anything so I'm not going to post any except for some covers.



Tokyo Ghost - Writen by Rick Remender and drawn by Sean Phillips. Set in 2089, humanity is absolutely addicted to technology and the internet and are hooked directly into everything. Detectives Debbie Decay and Led Dent are given a case that leads them to the last technology free city on the planet, Tokyo. Great story and beautiful fucking art.



Velvet - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Steve Epting. Spy thriller set in the 70's, follow Velvet Templeton as she tries to clear her name for a murder she didn't commit. Nothing new or groundbreaking here if you have seen/read other spy thriller stories but it's still damn good.
Always wanted to read Descender.

Not a fan of Saga but the artstyle is good

Been reading Monstress. Great comic so far
 

sol_bad

Member
Always wanted to read Descender.

Not a fan of Saga but the artstyle is good

Been reading Monstress. Great comic so far

I've heard a lot of good things about Monstress and I'm tempted to get the hardcover. It's still ongoing from what I understand and just came out of hiatus.
Saga resumes in January which I'm very happy about as well as the last issue had a huge fucking cliffhanger.
Descender is a great sci-fi story, not entirely original but the art makes it feel unique. Keep in mind that it has a second series called Ascender as well.
 
I've heard a lot of good things about Monstress and I'm tempted to get the hardcover. It's still ongoing from what I understand and just came out of hiatus.
Saga resumes in January which I'm very happy about as well as the last issue had a huge fucking cliffhanger.
Descender is a great sci-fi story, not entirely original but the art makes it feel unique. Keep in mind that it has a second series called Ascender as well.
I'm all caught up on Monstress. The art is up there with Muira art for Berserk. The world building is phonemonal, the plot is complex and the characters are interesting.



Right now been reading ISOLA and next up after that is Gideon Falls.

I added Descender and Ascender to my read list
 

Amiga

Member
Tokyo Ghost - Writen by Rick Remender and drawn by Sean Phillips. Set in 2089, humanity is absolutely addicted to technology and the internet and are hooked directly into everything. Detectives Debbie Decay and Led Dent are given a case that leads them to the last technology free city on the planet, Tokyo. Great story and beautiful fucking art.

Rick Remender is trending with me right now. Got to Tokyo Ghost and find it amazing in all aspects, story, art and concept. stacks up well with the best in Manga. well paced and "to the point" chapters (a big issue with Manga is the drown out slow pacing).
 

sol_bad

Member
Rick Remender is trending with me right now. Got to Tokyo Ghost and find it amazing in all aspects, story, art and concept. stacks up well with the best in Manga. well paced and "to the point" chapters (a big issue with Manga is the drown out slow pacing).

I'm still annoyed that the oversized hardcover is out of print.
:(
 

CAPSOL

Member
Speaking of Rick Remender, I just per-ordered the deluxe HC of Seven To Eternity.

Super hyped to read it, especially in oversized format so i can drool over Jerome Opena's art!

 
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sol_bad

Member
Speaking of Rick Remender, I just per-ordered the deluxe HC of Seven To Eternity.

Super hyped to read it, especially in oversized format so i can drool over Jerome Opena's art!


And it's not just oversized, it's oversized oversized. I can't wait either.
 

Toons

Member
Jerome opena is an incredible artist. I dont know about this series but him on art makes me wanna go all in alone
 

sol_bad

Member
I'm in the mood for a new manga. I like fantasy adventure. Sci fi and adventure. Not too serious but not too goofy.

There are the classics Magic Knight Rayearth, Inuyasha, Fullmetal Alchemist, Ghost in the Shell, Akira and Battle Angel Alita if you haven't read any of them.
I enjoyed another older manga called Astra Lost in Space.
Space Brothers is also cool.

I haven't read it myself but I've heard That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime is a good manga.
I've also heard that Claymore, Spice and Wolf, Overlord and Mashle are good manga but haven't read them yet. Overlord and Claymore might be darker than what you want though.
 

Amiga

Member
I'm in the mood for a new manga. I like fantasy adventure. Sci fi and adventure. Not too serious but not too goofy.

Another vote for Claymore, great and complete, but dark. Fullmetal Alchemist is GOAT.

20th century boys is a great genre bender thriller.
 

Blackage

Member
I'd really like to read those IDW Sonic comics, it's kinda crazy how manga has become a lot more accessible to just chain read compared to comics.
 

sol_bad

Member
I'd really like to read those IDW Sonic comics, it's kinda crazy how manga has become a lot more accessible to just chain read compared to comics.

Manga has always been more accessible than comics since the 90's. The manga market thrived on collected editions.
 
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