• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Could the Ps5 do quick resume if Sony desired it to?

Flutta

My tears. Exclusive to gamepass. Forever.
Dec 6, 2020
624
1,315
420
It doesn't work with quick resume. I know that much ;)


Rat Queens Twitch GIF by Hyper RPG
 

DrAspirino

Member
Nov 19, 2018
749
1,034
550
Chile
Sony has been Linux based forever. Linux can do virtualization via KVM. But as people who understand what virtualization is in this thread have already brought up, it would require a complete overhaul of both the console OS and how games are made and run on it.
Nope. That's where you're wrong. All Sony OSs from PS3 up to PS5 are based on FreeBSD, which is not Linux.
 
Last edited:

Corndog

Member
Apr 17, 2020
1,041
1,042
335
Sharing his opinion on it isn't really downplaying it. If he's talking negatively towards it then sure, you both have a point but if he's saying he's fine without it for example (on the PS5, the thing this topic centers on, you are without it) due to other features or other things he might care more for, shouldn't be an issue for ANYONE. Specially for Xbox only gamers who don't even play on the
No, it is pure software. It is really not a problem to "backup" the memory state of a game and safe it anywhere if the game makes no problems (e.g. like open network connections). As almost all games support the "instant-on" feature, I really don't see a problem there for single player games.
BUT (and this is really a problem) the PS5 has a really low write speed. I guess sony didn't really care about write speeds as they are fast enough to install games from the network or disc. So write speed wasn't needed. And that is the problem with quick-resume on PS5. It would just be to slow. It is much easier to just load the game up and run it.
I would really prefer if they implement a software-solution in games. E.g. make a savegame with the current state and that's all that needed to get you to the point were you were. That "savegame" would be much smaller and much more efficient. Quick resume right now is a "brute force" method.
Do you have a source for the slow write speed? I have never heard that. Thanks.
 

Genx3

Member
Jun 23, 2019
968
1,391
400
no, you misundertand.

Quick resume is not dumping ram. It actually stores the state of the virtual machine and ONLY works because games run in a virtual machine using hyper-v on Xbox

Quick resume multiple games is only possible because of virtualization. It is not possible on PC and PS5 (where games do not run in its own virtual machine, instead the run directly on the main OS)
I was wondering if Xbox' virtual machines was the reason Xbox Series could do this.

Thanks for the answer.
 

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
13,500
4,938
1,240
SC USA
Linux is Unix based not clone.
FreeBSD is BSD based, that is a fork from Unix not a clone.
Linux is Unix-like. It is not Unix-based. It is derived from the Unix design but the Linux kernel was written from scratch and did not include Unix source. BSD is Unix-based and by extension so is FreeBSD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ethomaz

Utherellus

Member
Feb 11, 2020
103
293
335
That is not true... you don't nee virtualization at all.

I posted an App that does that on Linux.
It only freezes the part of the memory used by the App... it doesn't need to freeze the whole OS.

"It can freeze a running container (or an individual application) and checkpoint its state to disk."


BTW some uses of CRIU.

"Save" ability in apps (games), that don't have such​

Some arcades require you to complete next level to "fixup" the progress. With criu it can be done at any point.

Snapshots of apps​

With CRIU one can save a series of app's states (all but first incremental) and revert later to any of them. The "apply-images" item from TODO list should help to revert the state faster, especially if the memory changes tracker state is with us.

One of examples when this snapshot might be useful is debugging. One might need to bring an application into a "desired" state fast, and having dump at that state would speed things up.

More here: https://www.criu.org/Usage_scenarios
It says "arcade games" ...

Do we have working examples of it save stating modern AAA games? AA? Anything at all?

I searched and could find only this:





I dont think it's working on games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoloKingRobert

Corndog

Member
Apr 17, 2020
1,041
1,042
335
Linux is Unix-like. It is not Unix-based. It is derived from the Unix design but the Linux kernel was written from scratch and did not include Unix source. BSD is Unix-based and by extension so is FreeBSD.
Sorry but this is just semantics. Linux is an unlicensed clone of Unix. Going into how they came about is useless for the context of this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
12,037
18,122
1,070
Sydney
no, you misundertand.

Quick resume is not dumping ram. It actually stores the state of the virtual machine and ONLY works because games run in a virtual machine using hyper-v on Xbox

Quick resume multiple games is only possible because of virtualization. It is not possible on PC and PS5 (where games do not run in its own virtual machine, instead the run directly on the main OS)
Oh? I did not know that. But isn't running games in a virtual machine taxing on the CPU and ram?
 
  • LOL
Reactions: MrFunSocks

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,924
4,485
410
quick resume is amazing probably the first next gen thing you "feel" on the console.

Sony could ...but it would need to rewrite part of the os and use 100gb of ssd for this .... that is, it will never happen
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gameplaylover

Gameplaylover

Member
Jul 26, 2021
1,124
2,097
365
quick resume is amazing probably the first next gen thing you "feel" on the console
Yeah, it's that type of luxury you don't want to miss anymore. Just like i couldn't go back to non SSD consoles anymore. Played My Friend Pedro and had to leave. So i simply power shut down my console mid game (no suspend mode) and the day after i was in 2 secons at the exact same position wehn i shut the Xbox down. No main menu, no save point. It's just great.
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Jan 25, 2018
2,043
1,856
555
England
Am I imagining it but could you select games you wanted to stay on the quick resume menu ?
And if you could has that option now gone?
I ask this as I had Assetto Corsa on my QR and its been on there since I last played it which I last played around March and it never came off. I clicked on it the other day and there I was right in the middle of a lap in 5-6 seconds. Amazing. I have then since clicked on the QR icon and removed Assetto Corsa from my QR list.
 
Last edited:

vdopey

Gold Member
Jun 13, 2019
179
308
410
THIS

Can someone just close this thread and mark it as answered with this post

This here is the actual answer.

It is pointless to argue about FACTS.
You might THINK the Sun could spin around the Earth. In reality it CANT.

PS5 does not use virtualization and therefore cannot do what quick resume does.
This is how things ACTUALLY WORK people.


Now. Sony COULD make major changes to their OS and begin to run ther games in a virtual machine (like Xbox does).. but they need virtualziation software like Hyper V och VMWare - which they do not own and is quite expensive

So can you explain what the save state of Returnal does on PS5 ? Its basically quick-resume. There is nothing stopping other games from building similar save-states and making them available as cards to quick resume the game.

There are many many ways of doing this, you don't need to use a vm to save state, vm makes it an os level function but you can also do the same thing from a game level function.

The fact that xbox uses hyper-v and sticks games into a vm means it actually has a performance penalty per game - something like 2-10%, this is actually very interesting.

Finally if PS5 was using Linux it would have kvm, xen, containerd, lxd, docker, raw cgroups at its disposal since its using FreeBSD it has bsd jails & bhyve at its disposal both very capable virtualisation techniques.
The container methods would have practically no performance penalty other than restricting resources afaik PS3 also used virtualisation that is how otheros or linux was able to be installed into the ps3 - so obviously Sony have done some work with virtualisation in the past, I'm not sure if they still do.

Finally the real elephant in the room which no one is willing to address is the fact that quick-resume does not work for any multiplayer game as you lose connection to the server you were connected to, which makes quick-resume pretty pointless unless all you play are single player games.
 
Last edited:

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,431
19,418
720
Finally the real elephant in the room which no one is willing to address is the fact that quick-resume does not work for any multiplayer game as you lose connection to the server you were connected on, which makes quick-resume pretty pointless unless all you play are single player games.
Works for FH5. Also in most multiplayer games you don't need it because all you do is play quick rounds anyway.
 

vdopey

Gold Member
Jun 13, 2019
179
308
410
Works for FH5. Also in most multiplayer games you don't need it because all you do is play quick rounds anyway.

Works how ? so your in a party playing with your friends - you quick resume play something else come back a few hours later (half of your friends have logged off or are playing other stuff) what state can it save for multiplayer ? I'm guessing it may transparently dump you into another online instance, but it cant save the exact same state in a completely dynamic moving multiplayer environment that is fact.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
It says "arcade games" ...

Do we have working examples of it save stating modern AAA games? AA? Anything at all?

I searched and could find only this:

If are you talking about GPU memory yes the App can’t dump the GPU memory part yet (I don’t think it will even do that because it is not their goal).

But PC has dedicated GPU memory that you need to pass via driver to access it… consoles not… all the memory is threaded as a single pool.

I dont think it's working on games.
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
how, how in a world would quick resume work in multiplayer? Anytime I hear this question, it totally blows my mind? How do you picture it?

the whole world would be paused? Any other human being would be put in hibernation?
It doesn't work... you will get disconnected.
How the game threads that depended of the game by game... some games will show the disconnected mensagem and back you to menus selection... others will only tell you were disconnected (think of Souls games online unless you invaded a world so you got back to your own world) and you will be in the same place.
So depends how the developer worked with the disconnected state.

But you really are disconnected like when you get offline.
 
Last edited:

SpokkX

Member
Nov 18, 2004
3,882
699
1,575
Sweden
So can you explain what the save state of Returnal does on PS5 ? Its basically quick-resume. There is nothing stopping other games from building similar save-states and making them available as cards to quick resume the game.

There are many many ways of doing this, you don't need to use a vm to save state, vm makes it an os level function but you can also do the same thing from a game level function.

The fact that xbox uses hyper-v and sticks games into a vm means it actually has a performance penalty per game - something like 2-10%, this is actually very interesting.

Finally if PS5 was using Linux it would have kvm, xen, containerd, lxd, docker, raw cgroups at its disposal since its using FreeBSD it has bsd jails & bhyve at its disposal both very capable virtualisation techniques.
The container methods would have practically no performance penalty other than restricting resources afaik PS3 also used virtualisation that is how otheros or linux was able to be installed into the ps3 - so obviously Sony have done some work with virtualisation in the past, I'm not sure if they still do.

Finally the real elephant in the room which no one is willing to address is the fact that quick-resume does not work for any multiplayer game as you lose connection to the server you were connected to, which makes quick-resume pretty pointless unless all you play are single player games.
1. There does not need to be a performance penalty when running games in VM if you expose the actual hardware to the vm. This isnt you daddys virtualization tech from the 1990-ies anymore.
2. Modern online games actually take quick resume into account. Forza Horizon 5 has a async connection model that just puts you back to begin playing immediately and just reconnects to online in the background
Older games like Destiny or Dark Souls - yes they boot you back to the menu. This cannot be helped for older online games sadly. I full expect modern online games to follow the model set out for horzon 5 (if possble - you obviously cannot resume to an online match in CoD or Halo after a day or two)
3. And yes for the 1000:nd time. it would be POSSIBLE to do the same on PS5 if THEY COMPLETELY REBUILT HOW GAMES RUN. But come on - that is not REALISTIC.
And no nothing is stopping developers from creating very advanced cards - still. IT IS NOT THE SAME thing. Cards just quick load a save. Unless the game allows saving during a cutscene or bossfight of course (that could require massive changes to how many games are build today)
 
Last edited:

FrankWza

Member
Feb 14, 2013
5,035
5,529
830
Someone do a
but that also brings up a HUGE issue with Quick Resume at the moment... any game can only be suspended ONCE per console.
meaning if you have 2 or 3 people using the same console and you play the same game. only 1 Quick Resume state can be saved PER GAME.

as soon as Profile 1 has Forza Horizon 5 in QR, and Profile 2 tries to start the game, it will tell you that you will have to erase Profil 1's Quick Resume state

and it honestly makes no sense to me... like why? why not have 2 separate suspended instances?
Is this accurate? Because I see a lot of people mentioning more than one person in the household and how qr benefits that scenario.It only took 10 pages for this to get a mention.
yes last time I used Quick Resume (I already mentioned I actively do not use it because I have had bugs in the past and it's honestly not worth the risk to me so I'm not even trying to use it anymore) it was exactly like that... it could have been patched maybe by now, but I certainly have not heard any news about it being patched to allow multiple resume states per game/profile
Sorry to keep quoting you 01011001 01011001 but there’s been no confirmation on whether or not this issue was fixed.
 

Allandor

Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,394
1,100
435
Germany
Do you have a source for the slow write speed? I have never heard that. Thanks.
Just search for the "copy" to a m.2 SSD and from a m.2 SSD. You will see that the read speed is really great, but the write speed (for the internal ssd) is somewhere around 200MB/s (as far as I remember). Not really bad but also not great. Normally a console doesn't need higher write speeds. But if you want a brute-force feature like quick resume, write speed is essential.
 
Last edited:

vdopey

Gold Member
Jun 13, 2019
179
308
410
1. There does not need to be a performance penalty when running games in VM if you expose the actual hardware to the vm. This isnt you daddys virtualization tech from the 1990-ies anymore.
2. Modern online games actually take quick resume into account. Forza Horizon 5 has a async connection model that just puts you back to begin playing immediately and just reconnects to online in the background
Older games like Destiny or Dark Souls - yes they boot you back to the menu. This cannot be helped for older online games sadly. I full expect modern online games to follow the model set out for horzon 5 (if possble - you obviously cannot resume to an online match in CoD or Halo after a day or two)
3. And yes for the 1000:nd time. it would be POSSIBLE to do the same on PS5 if THEY COMPLETELY REBUILT HOW GAMES RUN. But come on - that is not REALISTIC.
And no nothing is stopping developers from creating very advanced cards - still. IT IS NOT THE SAME thing. Cards just quick load a save. Unless the game allows saving during a cutscene or bossfight of course (that could require massive changes to how many games are build today)

1. Linux is about 5 - 10 Years ahead in virtualization tech compared to Windows (Look up kubernetes and come back to me) - Linux typically suffers 2 - 10% performance degradation with hardware pass-through. This is my field - you have no idea about my expertise. Para-virtualisation was invented on Linux by the author of Xen (vmware also claim it, but meh bollocks even then they use Linux)

2. what is an async connection model ? Please do explain is that like the power of the cloud powering xbox graphics like what was claimed for Crackdown 3 last gen ? Does an async connection model magically freeze everyone online playing that specific game and bring them all back online the moment you resume said game does it also do the same for the server based connection ?

3. Completely Rebuilt how games run - its fine to completely rebuild the network stack / multiplayer elements of a game including the whole client-server model that is simple its how "modern online games" supposedly work along with this magical "async connection" which defies the laws of physics and freezes people in the physical world - but retrofitting a save state file mechanism which Returnal managed to do without "COMPLETELY REBUILDING HOW THE GAME RUNS" was not realistic of them ?

Read what I write to you carefully so that hopefully you understand. Returnal has a save state mechanism which drops you back into the same game world much like how quick-resume works, it saves your state and pops you back in to where you left off. This same method can be used by any other game, Sony have probably already included it in their latest SDK. This can then be linked to an activity card which states Resume your last game session - and as if by magic PS5 has the same space wasting quick resume option available to any game that bothers to implement it.

We are at a generation where games written for the respective platforms boot up in less than 10 seconds, some less than 5 seconds, Its a feature most games on PS5 currently don't support, however there is 1 game that does. So to answer the question asked by the poster of this Thread - Yes Sony can support it, no it wouldn't be too difficult for new games to implement it, but will they make it a feature and get all of their marketing shills to shout about it from the roof tops ? Probably not, they just engineer excellence and don't hire a bunch of astro-turfers to flood forums spouting shit.
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,187
4,890
425
Returnal has a save state mechanism which drops you back into the same game world much like how quick-resume works, it saves your state and pops you back in to where you left off.

Can you do this mid battle and does it remember where all the incoming projectiles are?

Trying to find out what it is saving. I haven't played the game. I will get a ps5 when Altus releases a game.
 
Last edited:

Allandor

Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,394
1,100
435
Germany
Can you do this mid battle and does it remember where all the incoming projectiles are?

Trying to find out what it is saving. I haven't played the game. I will get a ps5 when Altus releases a game.
A save-system like this is not really a problem (I don't know if returnal does that). Basically you just save your world-data needed to reproduce what is currently happening. Most of your memory (that is also saved with quick-resume) is just textures and other GPU-related data. Even "cached" stuff will be saved with quick-resume. That is why I call this stuff "brute force". It just saves the whole memory used by the game to the SSD. Not very efficient but works with most titles without the need that developers must implement something.
A much more efficient way would be the world-savegame thing, where even random created NPCs and their current position etc is saved. Such savegames would be a little bit bigger than the "normal" saves, but much, much smaller than anything else. Everything else can be loaded by the game engine thanks to the ssd without a problem in a few seconds. But something like that must be done by the developer and might lead to numerous bugs.
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
Can you do this mid battle and does it remember where all the incoming projectiles are?

Trying to find out what it is saving. I haven't played the game. I will get a ps5 when Altus releases a game.
It is a save state feature so yes it records the exactly moment you choose it with everything happening.

And yes you can turn off your console.

“ The structure of the game remains unchanged, so this functionality is not a traditional mid-game “Save Game” option: by suspending the cycle, Returnal will simply create a single use suspend point, and once you resume playing the suspend point is deleted and cannot be used again. Your game will continue directly from the moment you left it, and if you want to suspend the cycle again, your progress will be captured from that new point onwards”

It is very similar to the Suspend/Resume feature but instead to left the dump in the RAM it saves in a file on SSD.

I said before that Returnal already does what QuicResume does but people keep saying uselessnesses.

You don’t need Virtual Machine / Hyper-V to dumb the part of the memory to the disc.
 
Last edited:

DrAspirino

Member
Nov 19, 2018
749
1,034
550
Chile
Sorry but this is just semantics. Linux is an unlicensed clone of Unix. Going into how they came about is useless for the context of this thread.


Linux IS NOT UNIX. It MAY be POSIX standard compliant (which is why you see the same commands and similar API calls), but that's where similarities end. Linux kernel and drivers differ so much from UNIX systems that most APIs and drivers have to be rewritten from scratch to work in Unix.

Now, going to the issue at hand, KVM virtualization is possible in FreeBSD (it has been ported as a loadable module), which in turn could be compiled to work with Orbis OS kernel. That's not a problem at all, since it's just a kernel module. The problem comes around the entire system design, not just the OS.

For Quick Resume to work on PS5, the system (not just the OS) would have to have a structure like this:

  • A very, VERY stripped-down version of Orbis OS with just the kernel and virtualization module running as a Hypervisor at a really low level.
  • An Orbis OS VM running the actual PS5 operating system with calls and integration to the Orbis Hypervisor.
  • A "gaming space" used by games virtual machines. Every game would need to have their own Orbis kernel inside to communicate with the hypervisor for low-level hardware access, which in turn means every game would use more disk space.

Also, for that to be implemented in a future system update (if Sony chooses to do so), they'd have to issue an update that converts the games' self-contained partitions into their own VMs (with a copy of the barebones Orbis OS).

Also, they'd have to issue a new SDK update with guidelines for developers to distribute their games as VMs instead as how they're doing it now.

Buuuut...that would create an incompatibility between players that do not connect their consoles to the internet and players that have their consoles up-to-date, since the differences between the systems would be down to the kernel level (literally).

In short, it's not feasable, since Sony fucked up from the very beginning and they didn't think forward in time. Virtualization has been a thing since ages, even at the consumer level. Heck, macOS has had transparent virtualization for decades (when they transitioned from OS9 to OSX, from PPC to x86, and now from x86 to ARM) and Windows has had it as a transparent security feature for consumers since Windows 10.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Ezekiel_666x
Jan 29, 2019
6,837
7,625
520
I don't think so. Quick Resume is effectively hitting 'pause' on a virtual machine and PS games don't run in a VM as far as I know.

It's a very common feature of virtualization software. But enabling it on a host machine is whole different ballgame.
I have an Android smart phone and an iPad. They all do "quick resume", no VM, no BS. I have not used a desktop Mac in a while, but if I remember well applications that are designed for it keep their states as well, same for applications like Notepad++ on windows, it just stores the relevant data in some temporary file.

It's not a hardware based feature, it could be implemented... the question is more if Sony find it worthwhile (I certainly would not say no to it, but I honestly don't care that much)... not only that, but games already do it individually.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: ErRor88

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,187
4,890
425
It is a save state feature so yes it records the exactly moment you choose it with everything happening.
That's pretty cool then if it's remembered all the projectiles. I just haven't seen it in action. This does seem like a great middle ground for 90% of games


A much more efficient way would be the world-savegame thing, where even random created NPCs and their current position etc is saved. Such savegames would be a little bit bigger than the "normal" saves, but much, much smaller than anything else. Everything else can be loaded by the game engine thanks to the ssd without a problem in a few seconds.
Definitely would be interested to see more 'detailed' save files that contains more of the data about the world at the time that you save it. I wonder what the Returnal save files are in terms of size respective to more normal saves.
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
Definitely would be interested to see more 'detailed' save files that contains more of the data about the world at the time that you save it. I wonder what the Returnal save files are in terms of size respective to more normal saves.
Depends of how Returnal is doing it.

- Easy way: If it is dumping the memory the save state file should be around the whole memory the game is using (max 13GB in PS5?).
- Complex: if they are doing a smart file with all the info needed to recover the state then the file is several ways smaller than just dump the RAM.

Just to remember some points the feature is disabled in Bosses, Cutscenes and some intense battles… seems like Devs wants you to play the bosses in a single go.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: vdopey

vdopey

Gold Member
Jun 13, 2019
179
308
410
Can you do this mid battle and does it remember where all the incoming projectiles are?

Trying to find out what it is saving. I haven't played the game. I will get a ps5 when Altus releases a game.

You mean the ability to jump back into a big battle cold and die instantly and have to start your run all over again ? I think they said they intentionally blocked this from happening, it might be a technical limitation of what they are doing or could indeed be an intentional block, but the bigger question really is why would you want this to be done? Its one of the reasons I think saving complete state is a bad idea - it will literally mean you will jump in die and end up back at the save point, which you could have booted from anyway.

I really don't get the hype around this, especially when you can load a save state in 5 - 10 seconds now anyway - if they did this on xbox 1 / xbox 1x and it instantly resumed in 5 seconds yeah that would have been an engineering feat and a half - when your already using a storage medium which loads save states uber fast kind of makes this whole thing redundant and as already mentioned by others games can use this faster storage mediums to record more stateful information directly into a normal save file practically the same difference just different implementations to get to the same result, except using a save state file would be dramatically smaller than a complete memory dump to disk.
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,837
7,625
520
In short, it's not feasable, since Sony fucked up from the very beginning and they didn't think forward in time. Virtualization has been a thing since ages, even at the consumer level. Heck, macOS has had transparent virtualization for decades (when they transitioned from OS9 to OSX, from PPC to x86, and now from x86 to ARM) and Windows has had it as a transparent security feature for consumers since Windows 10.
You assume that the way MS did it the only way that applications can "quick resume", or that it's the best possible implementation for games.

obviously Sony won't have the MS version of the feature (if they ever do have a version of it that works on more than 1 game at a time).

Use your phone, reboot and re-open your apps... this is like magic or something, no VMs or containers.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Jan 12, 2014
10,029
2,896
780
I have an Android smart phone and an iPad. They all do "quick resume", no VM, no BS.
That's entirely different though, the android apps are simply paused and kept in memory, if you start opening more apps than the memory can handle, it will start closing apps by itself; it's also lost if you reboot your phone or if your battery dies.

So no, not quick resume.
 

reksveks

Member
Jun 4, 2020
5,187
4,890
425
Just to remember some points the feature is disabled in Bosses… seems like Devs wants you to play the bosses in a single go.

Yeah, that's fine for me. Saw a clip where the save was remembering the position of something like a laser so that was pretty cool. I wonder if devs are going to try and do something similar, I hope so. It will make my life of playing between xcloud, pc and console better I think.

mean the ability to jump back into a big battle cold and die instantly and have to start your run all over again ? I think they said they intentionally blocked this from happening, it might be a technical limitation of what they are doing or could indeed be an intentional block, but the bigger question really is why would you want this to be done? Its one of the reasons I think saving complete state is a bad idea - it will literally mean you will jump in die and end up back at the save point, which you could have booted from anyway.
No, I haven't seen it but I just wasn't sure if it was available during a point of time where you aren't in any combat. It's not really about save scumming for me, I was just curious about what the limitations were. The clip I saw was quite impressive relative to most games and would like more games to store more dynamic elements of the world state in save files. I switch between devices alot as mentioned above and doing this sounds like it would massive improve that experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vdopey

SpokkX

Member
Nov 18, 2004
3,882
699
1,575
Sweden
1. Linux is about 5 - 10 Years ahead in virtualization tech compared to Windows (Look up kubernetes and come back to me) - Linux typically suffers 2 - 10% performance degradation with hardware pass-through. This is my field - you have no idea about my expertise. Para-virtualisation was invented on Linux by the author of Xen (vmware also claim it, but meh bollocks even then they use Linux)

2. what is an async connection model ? Please do explain is that like the power of the cloud powering xbox graphics like what was claimed for Crackdown 3 last gen ? Does an async connection model magically freeze everyone online playing that specific game and bring them all back online the moment you resume said game does it also do the same for the server based connection ?

3. Completely Rebuilt how games run - its fine to completely rebuild the network stack / multiplayer elements of a game including the whole client-server model that is simple its how "modern online games" supposedly work along with this magical "async connection" which defies the laws of physics and freezes people in the physical world - but retrofitting a save state file mechanism which Returnal managed to do without "COMPLETELY REBUILDING HOW THE GAME RUNS" was not realistic of them ?

Read what I write to you carefully so that hopefully you understand. Returnal has a save state mechanism which drops you back into the same game world much like how quick-resume works, it saves your state and pops you back in to where you left off. This same method can be used by any other game, Sony have probably already included it in their latest SDK. This can then be linked to an activity card which states Resume your last game session - and as if by magic PS5 has the same space wasting quick resume option available to any game that bothers to implement it.

We are at a generation where games written for the respective platforms boot up in less than 10 seconds, some less than 5 seconds, Its a feature most games on PS5 currently don't support, however there is 1 game that does. So to answer the question asked by the poster of this Thread - Yes Sony can support it, no it wouldn't be too difficult for new games to implement it, but will they make it a feature and get all of their marketing shills to shout about it from the roof tops ? Probably not, they just engineer excellence and don't hire a bunch of astro-turfers to flood forums spouting shit.
I have two comments

1. you obviously dont work in tech (not even recoqnizing what is meant by async connection model even with examples… and posting stuff from wikis to show your ”knowledge”)
2. You sure love your favorite company

i cant or wont argue with any of 1 or 2
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
That's entirely different though, the android apps are simply paused and kept in memory, if you start opening more apps than the memory can handle, it will start closing apps by itself; it's also lost if you reboot your phone or if your battery dies.

So no, not quick resume.
In iOS you don't lose anything even if the App is closed or you reboot the phone (battery dies).
When you reboot the App it back to where it was before you closed it.

For example...
Open Whatsapp... open a discussion.
Close the app... reboot the phone.
Open the App again and it back to that discussion.

I'm pretty sure Apple saves that info in the file system and not RAM.
I don't use Android so I can't say it is the same.

Edit - You can read here how it works on iOS Apps:

Preserving your app’s user interface helps maintain the illusion that your app is always running. Interruptions can occur frequently on iOS devices, and a prolonged interruption might cause the system to terminate your app to free up resources. However, users do not know that your app has been terminated and will not expect the state of your app to change. Instead, they expect your app to be in the same state as when they left it. State preservation and restoration ensures that your app returns to its previous state when it launches again.

At appropriate times, UIKit preserves the state of your app’s views and view controllers to an encrypted file on disk. When your app is terminated and relaunched later, UIKit reconstructs your views and view controllers from the preserved data. The preservation and restoration processes are initiated automatically, but you must also do some specific work to support those processes"


PS. Games that doesn't require internet connection on iOS saves states like normal apps but the ones that rely on internet the devs forces you to back to the login screen so it is useless for these games.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SoloKingRobert

khakimzhan

Neo Member
Jan 8, 2018
25
26
170
It is a save state feature so yes it records the exactly moment you choose it with everything happening.

And yes you can turn off your console.

“ The structure of the game remains unchanged, so this functionality is not a traditional mid-game “Save Game” option: by suspending the cycle, Returnal will simply create a single use suspend point, and once you resume playing the suspend point is deleted and cannot be used again. Your game will continue directly from the moment you left it, and if you want to suspend the cycle again, your progress will be captured from that new point onwards”

It is very similar to the Suspend/Resume feature but instead to left the dump in the RAM it saves in a file on SSD.

I said before that Returnal already does what QuicResume does but people keep saying uselessnesses.

You don’t need Virtual Machine / Hyper-V to dumb the part of the memory to the disc.
That is simply not true
 
  • LOL
Reactions: ethomaz

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
That is simply not true
What I described is what happens in the game so it is indeed true.

You can try yourself... go close to an enemy and wait he shot you... save your state... turn off the console... back and you will receiving the same shoot like you paused.
 
Last edited:

Tripolygon

Member
May 6, 2012
4,839
7,523
1,160
NYC
This reminds me, PSP Go had a savestate feature though it was limited to one game. But the hacking community created a save state plugin called PSPStates that did the same thing but for multiple games.
It is a save state feature so yes it records the exactly moment you choose it with everything happening.

And yes you can turn off your console.

“ The structure of the game remains unchanged, so this functionality is not a traditional mid-game “Save Game” option: by suspending the cycle, Returnal will simply create a single use suspend point, and once you resume playing the suspend point is deleted and cannot be used again. Your game will continue directly from the moment you left it, and if you want to suspend the cycle again, your progress will be captured from that new point onwards”

It is very similar to the Suspend/Resume feature but instead to left the dump in the RAM it saves in a file on SSD.

I said before that Returnal already does what QuicResume does but people keep saying uselessnesses.

You don’t need Virtual Machine / Hyper-V to dumb the part of the memory to the disc.
Technically they are achieving the same result but It is not really the same thing. Returnal is saving the state of the game like a souped-up checkpoint that freezes the game and takes a snapshot of every stat in the game. Quick resume is saving the state of the RAM on a system level. I don't think Sony would allow developers to save 13GB worth of RAM into system storage, as far as I can check returnal saves are like 10MB. It is a security risk that they are not willing to take.
 
Last edited:

vdopey

Gold Member
Jun 13, 2019
179
308
410
I have two comments

1. you obviously dont work in tech
2. You sure love your favorite company

i cant or wont argue with any of 1 or 2

1. I'll show you my cv if you show me yours, hows that ? (Ill happily jump onto a zoom / google meet call with you anytime you want and we can discuss tech if you like)

2. I sure do love great tech and absolutely loathe Marketing PR bullshit.

I hope my posts at least enlightened you in some way and helped dispel some of your misunderstandings / ignorance around the subject.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
1. I'll show you my cv if you show me yours, hows that ? (Ill happily jump onto a zoom / google meet call with you anytime you want and we can discuss tech if you like)

2. I sure do love great tech and absolutely loathe Marketing PR bullshit.

I hope my posts at least enlightened you in some way and helped dispel some of your misunderstandings / ignorance around the subject.
Just to point out.

All types of virtualization (including hardware virtualization) has overhead and minor loss of performance compared with running direct in the hardware without any virtualization layer.

MS already designed Xbox One and now Series consoles with that minor loss of performance in mind.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Jan 12, 2014
10,029
2,896
780
In iOS you don't lose anything even if the App is closed
Note how I didn't mention iOS.
What I do know about iOS app save states, is that it requires app developer implementation because it's a reconstruction, it's not enabled by the OS/Apple itself; Quick resume works via a VM, and it and other things like xcloud touch controls, are enabled by MS themselves and handled by the OS, but I digress, I didn't mention iOS in the first place.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
Note how I didn't mention iOS.
What I do know about iOS app save states, is that it requires app developer implementation because it's a reconstruction, it's not enabled by the OS/Apple itself; Quick resume works via a VM, and it and other things like xcloud touch controls, are enabled by MS themselves and handled by the OS, but I digress, I didn't mention iOS in the first place.
It works automatically by default (there is a time for each new auto restoration point) since the dev enable that feature.
The developer can set custom save/restoration points.
The developer can choose to custom to things when a restore point is restored.

BTW you replied to a guy saying the feature exists in iPad/Phones.
 
Last edited:

Jaysen

Member
Mar 19, 2021
1,480
2,780
430
how, how in a world would quick resume work in multiplayer? Anytime I hear this question, it totally blows my mind? How do you picture it?

the whole world would be paused? Any other human being would be put in hibernation?
It reconnects to the online server when you rejoin. Works perfectly in Forza. It has to be coded for though, so most online games probably won’t do it yet.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,152
44,909
1,310
39
Brazil
It reconnects to the online server when you rejoin. Works perfectly in Forza. It has to be coded for though, so most online games probably won’t do it yet.
That is passive online... it is like Death Stranding or others similar online features... you are not in an active online.
What happens is that when you get Disconnected you only lose the data in your world related to online feature... and when you connect again new data from the new server is shows in your side (it is not the same data from when you lose the connection).
That is how the passive online works and it is not related to QuickResume or even to developers working to make it works with QuickResume... it is by design the type of online feature the developer choose to the game have.

It is difference from active online that is used in P2P matches... when you get disconnected you lose everything and back to Menu or to the passive online world (if the game has one)... most games uses a Hibrid of passive for the world or main features and avtive to the P2P matches.

There is the fully active online like Destiny... no matter what if you lose internet you are back to the game launch screen... the game won't work without internet.

You can use passive online only in content that works offline.
Content that doesn't work offline needs to coded in active online and should never lose internet to work.
 
Last edited: