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funkygunther
Banned
still going to be rolled out per age cohort though, no idea how anyone under 40 is going to know booster jabs will be offered to them
Ionian
Member
lol @ all the people willing to become human pincushions and get boosters every 3-6 months in perpetuity for a disease with a .01% fatality rate for those under 50 years of age. Hysterical.
What part of spreading the disease don't you get?
Bloody hospitals are jammed with patients. Or are they not? It's costing governments a fortune. This is very, very simple.
funkygunther
Banned
lol @ all the people willing to become human pincushions and get boosters every 3-6 months in perpetuity for a disease with a .01% fatality rate for those under 50 years of age. Hysterical.
it's good to see we're at the just-laughing-at-people stage of your trolling, can't wait for the next mutation
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
This disease with a ".01% fatality rate for those under 50 years of age" killed over 300,000 people in 2020 and has already killed even more than that in 2021.lol @ all the people willing to become human pincushions and get boosters every 3-6 months in perpetuity for a disease with a .01% fatality rate for those under 50 years of age. Hysterical.
It should be taken seriously, and the vaccines are proven to be cheap, safe, and effective when used properly. If everyone were fully vaccinated, the death toll would have been cut by over 90%. It's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated for themselves and for their family/friends.
Ionian
Member
The fact he can't see hospitals are over-run and basically says LOL. They are, and nurses are quitting from stress.
It's very real. He needs to read up on it. It's no joke at all. Cases are exploding right now. What happens to serious cases like heart attacks or strokes. There simply isn't the beds.
Yes, let's condemn older people to die, because their lives aren't worth anything.lol @ all the people willing to become human pincushions and get boosters every 3-6 months in perpetuity for a disease with a .01% fatality rate for those under 50 years of age. Hysterical.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
To bad we all get old (hopefully) it’s good to know we will be thrown into a dumpster at the age of 55-60.
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prinz_valium
Member
Name me a single person who isn't advocating for people age 60+ getting vaccinated. Or overweight 50 years old who smoke and have diabetes.
Erebus
Member
lol @ all the people willing to become human pincushions and get boosters every 3-6 months in perpetuity for a disease with a .01% fatality rate for those under 50 years of age. Hysterical.
Meanwhile at Pfizer:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The bigger question for me is where are the new hospitals? Where are the new nurses, doctors and other healthcare professionals?
Its like global warming, all the talk is about constraints to slow what may be inevitable, as opposed to taking steps to actually deal with the issue if/when/as it arises.
The way I see it, unless our strategy changes this situation with Covid is just going to keep on repeating. Evolution isn't going to take a break; new strains and variants are going to continue to be found (there are what, 8 delta sub-variants?) and when one shows an unusual number of mutations the precautionary principle is going to kick-in and its going to get the "star" treatment like Omicron has.
Where despite there being no direct evidence that its more deadly or more transmissible, the assumption is made that it could be and therefore the stage is set to recreate the same situation that led to its evolution in the first place. i.e. a population with weakened general immunity due to stress and isolation, and enormous evolutionary pressure on the virus to "escape" the precise sorts of immunity afforded by heavily medicalized hosts.
Covid is essentially endemic at this point, we need to face that reality and learn to live with it. Vulnerable cohorts need special protection, but the constant amping up of fear and uncertainty (both directly trhrough deliberate fear-mongering, and indirectly by the transparency of it as a ploy to coerce) is not helping.
T8SC
Member
Reports in the UK that people are already cancelling holidays, Christmas parties & other "hospitality/travel" activities. The time when a lot of business is to be conducted, Christmas time, is potentially going to be lost for a second year running.
How much longer can (some) businesses stay afloat? I feel for those business owners, so many have already gone under and I doubt there will be a new furlough to help out this time around.
How much longer can (some) businesses stay afloat? I feel for those business owners, so many have already gone under and I doubt there will be a new furlough to help out this time around.
This kind of response makes no sense to me. If their lives are valuable, then we have reason to prevent them from getting infected, whether that happens through their own vaccination or through immunity in the wider population. The post I quoted was literally making fun of people who wanted to protect others from the virus by taking a booster.
The "lets just build a bunch of new hospitals" line of thought misses the point that when the virus is growing exponentially in the population, the amount of "currently infected" will continue to double at regular intervals until herd immunity is reached. So you just doubled capacity. Great. Oh, shit now we have 2X more infected, now 4X, now 8X...
The rate of spread of Omicron is already far in excess of Delta. But ignoring that, the precautionary principle makes sense, if we want to minimise the effects of a potential new wave that's already here. I find it funny how the same people decrying lockdowns somehow seem to be terrified of using a simple intervention that has proved enormously effective at preventing them. Our house is burning down and we have this fire extinguisher, but let's ignore that, because the real issue is that the house was not built correctly.
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T8SC
Member
46.3 million with double doses in the UK.
17.9 million with boosters on top in the UK.
67.22 million total people in the UK.
21% are under 18.
67.22 - 21% = 53.1 million adults.
53.1 adults - 46.3 double doses = 6.8 million unvaccinated adults.
How many do we need vaccinated before its classed as herd immunity? Not to mention some of those unvaccinated will no doubt have had a case and technically now have the antibodies also.
Curious...
Herd immunity is not achievable anymore, since Delta hit , even with a 90% vaccination rate , the actual number is 50% .. we need to accept and change how we life and work . Now with omnicron it looks like it will be even lower. It’s only buying time .. personally I am not looking forward to shots every 3 months .
as for corona viruses , you can get those multiple times a year and get sick, as the family of coronavirus has been there and gives you the common cold ..
only not COVID-19, that’s why it’s novel.
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There is also another one, that now tells the same ..
funkygunther
Banned
could have been asking this question for the past 50 years, and now because we should take a third dose of a vaccine you're wanting to expand capacity to cover the whole population in case they end up in ICU?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Evidence please. Everything I've read supports the contention that this strain has been in circulation for considerably longer than it was identified by the SA authorities and yet case numbers are relatively modest. That region offering the best current dataset for analysis is offset by the epidemiology of Covid in Africa proving significantly different to the rest of the world.
I'm sorry but there's very little actual information beyond presumption at this point. There is limited data on its lethality or infectiousness, beyond the spike variances suggesting an ability to evade response specific to that trained by vaccines.
Its the same thing with potential Vaccine side-effects, not enough time has passed since the discovery of the virus for proper longitudinal studies yet we're supposed to set any questions aside because of exigent circumstances. This is not good science.
I appreciate that applying the precautionary principle across all dimensions would be paralyzing, but the selective value placed on actual empirical observation versus projection and conjecture is maddening if you value actual information and disclosure.
T8SC
Member
Lets be honest here, its not just a third dose though is it. By February/March I'll have had 4, by June 5, by Sept 6 ...
funkygunther
Banned
don't think anything has been made about the interval between third and forth dose, here you are assuming it will be three-month intervals for that...I'm going to wait for the declaration between further boosters first, but if the answer is to not have boosters and just magic up hospitals and ICUs and staff instead then it's a non-starter
The way I am using the term refers to immunity through natural infection + vaccination. It's an event that occurs when the average number of people the virus infects at a given contact level (the reproductive number, Rt), falls below 1. Or in simple English, the pool of infected individuals will continue to grow until the virus runs out of new hosts. And you had better hope that happens before all that new hospital capacity you built gets used up.
The evidence is far from conclusive. But to say it doesn't exist is incorrect.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Exactly.
And I'm sorry but when the authorities are constantly bleating about fears about health services becoming overwhelmed, its seems pretty basic to try and increase capacity to compensate should the worst happen.
That this doesn't occur and that the emphasis becomes on reducing demand and not on improving service shows the calculation is based more on economics than altruism.
chromhound
Member
Moderna CEO Repeats That Vaccine Won't Work For Omicron; Antibody Cocktails Also Need Modification
He needs a bigger yacht
He needs a bigger yacht
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That graph is meaningless. Unless the contention is that this strain has a drastically truncated incubation period!
Sorry but that appears to simply double-down on misconception that the date of the strain being sequenced equals its emergence into the population. That there are cases internationally shows that it has been around for awhile and it just went undetected.
funkygunther
Banned
Zerohedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
from: https://www.ft.com/content/27def1b9-b9c8-47a5-8e06-72e432e0838f
where it then says:
Cockles & Whelks
Banned
EU health officials confirm 42 Omicron cases
European health chief Andrea AmmonImage caption: European health chief Andrea AmmonThe head of the EU's public health body says there have been 42 confirmed cases of the new Omicron variant across the bloc.
Andrea Ammon, who chairs the European Centre for Disease prevention and Control, told an online conference that authorities were analysing a further six "probable" cases.
However, she stressed that all confirmed cases to date have had either mild illness or been asymptomatic.
Cases are likely to continue rising across the bloc, as authorities in the Netherlands have dated the first confirmed Omicron infection in the country as happening between 19 and 23 November.
The evolution for any virus should be to be more transmittable, but less deadly.
But....FEAR! FEAR FEAR!
Where are the BBC headlines "EU confirms Omicron could be less problematic then first thought".
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Looks inline with how COVID graphs look when you let it lose .. now those match !
Alx
Member
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst". It is possible that the new variant is less dangerous than the previous ones, but there's not enough data to guarantee it yet. While there is some data that shows that it spreads much faster.
Right now governments and media are being cautious, they're not "spreading fear". Once we get more detailed results, either they'll confirm that the virus is less deadly and we can be relieved and lower the restrictions, or they'll confirm the opposite and we'll be glad we didn't jump to conclusions too soon.
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Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Pharma company full of scientists: We made the vaccine to target X, now that the virus mutated to Y, we need a vaccine to target Y
Internet: He needs a bigger yacht
Where is that scientist / educating myself on the toilet pic?
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T8SC
Member
Can I just add this, which I touched upon yesterday:
Global markets fall after Moderna Omicron warning - BBC News
I asked yesterday, why are we pushing ahead with boosters, which are now spaced 3 months apart, if they are not very effective against a new variant, which as the graph shows, is running rampant and spreading a lot faster?
I was greeted with varying answers from "its not conclusive that it's spreading fast", "We must jab jab jab" etc etc
Again, why are we still patching with less degrees of efficiency & wasting money in the process, as opposed to dealing with it like the flu whilst spending that money on further research & hospital capacity?
Here's an IT analogy:
I have a trojan on my PC. I run Norton AV and it detects it but doesn't remove it properly, parts of it remain and it comes back.
So I run it again. Same result.
I run it again. Same result.
I keep running it, 3 months apart to keep my computer afloat and remove small remnants of the trojan but it still lingers & comes back.
Or .. I do some research, spend some money to change my AV to Avast which removes it completely.
*Note - Other AV's are available*
Global markets fall after Moderna Omicron warning - BBC News
I asked yesterday, why are we pushing ahead with boosters, which are now spaced 3 months apart, if they are not very effective against a new variant, which as the graph shows, is running rampant and spreading a lot faster?
I was greeted with varying answers from "its not conclusive that it's spreading fast", "We must jab jab jab" etc etc
Again, why are we still patching with less degrees of efficiency & wasting money in the process, as opposed to dealing with it like the flu whilst spending that money on further research & hospital capacity?
Here's an IT analogy:
I have a trojan on my PC. I run Norton AV and it detects it but doesn't remove it properly, parts of it remain and it comes back.
So I run it again. Same result.
I run it again. Same result.
I keep running it, 3 months apart to keep my computer afloat and remove small remnants of the trojan but it still lingers & comes back.
Or .. I do some research, spend some money to change my AV to Avast which removes it completely.
*Note - Other AV's are available*
prinz_valium
Member
Their lives are valuable, but not more valuable to throw out core values and freedom that only make living worthwhile.
Forcing 10% of young adults to get a vaccination that won't prevent them getting infected and infect the valuable and give them a 0.1% to 5% increased chance of not getting infected and serious ill, is stupid.
Banning all immigration will give your daughter a 0.1% to 5% higher chance of not getting raped.
Forced sterilization of men would drop testosterone levels and violent crimes by a lot higher percentages.
It's just a train of thought and argument any sane person should not go down.
But majority is stupid. Majority also liked burning witches, having slaves and getting rid of *enter any unwanted group hit with genocide*
Anyone freely taking a booster can obviously do that. Just like you can reject it.
But you can't force someone to take a booster, otherwise you can also force someone to not take them and that would be fine, toom
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Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Jesus christ, I swear the longer it goes the more stupid this argument gets. Are you also for letting fascists and far-right demonstrate their views because of 'freedom'? Because I'm all for beating the shit out of them.
T8SC
Member
COVID-19: Don't socialise unless necessary to help slow Omicron variant spread, says UKHSA chief Dr Jenny Harries | UK News | Sky News
It's started.
COVID-19: Don't socialise unless necessary to help slow Omicron variant spread, says UKHSA chief Dr Jenny Harries
"And of course, our behaviours in winter and particularly around Christmas we tend to socialise more so I think all of those will need to be taken into account."It's started.
That's not what we're talking about though. The post I was quoting was making fun of people for being willing to take the booster.
Well, at no point are the Delta and Beta curves steeper, so I don't see how it's just a question of getting a head start. As John Burn-Murdoch says, it could be a "blip" caused by ramping up of testing capacity/focus, so we need to see whether it continues.
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Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Health officials: Virus spreads in close contact, in order to slow down the spread try to limit how often you socialize with others. Maybe plan to do it a bit less up to time leading before Christmas so we can somehow offset the increase number of infections at the beginning of January?
Internet: It's started
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Can I just add this, which I touched upon yesterday:
Global markets fall after Moderna Omicron warning - BBC News
I asked yesterday, why are we pushing ahead with boosters, which are now spaced 3 months apart, if they are not very effective against a new variant, which as the graph shows, is running rampant and spreading a lot faster?
I was greeted with varying answers from "its not conclusive that it's spreading fast", "We must jab jab jab" etc etc
Again, why are we still patching with less degrees of efficiency & wasting money in the process, as opposed to dealing with it like the flu whilst spending that money on further research & hospital capacity?
Here's an IT analogy:
I have a trojan on my PC. I run Norton AV and it detects it but doesn't remove it properly, parts of it remain and it comes back.
So I run it again. Same result.
I run it again. Same result.
I keep running it, 3 months apart to keep my computer afloat and remove small remnants of the trojan but it still lingers & comes back.
Or .. I do some research, spend some money to change my AV to Avast which removes it completely.
*Note - Other AV's are available*
Luckily we didn't follow this 'advice' when the immune resistant Mu variant appeared (remember that one?).
If Omicron is Delta on steroids then even the reduced amount of immunity we have from boosted vaccines might help prevent significant shutdowns.
If Omicron is Mu then shutting the whole vaccination program down to focus on a non-event would be stupid and counter-productive.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
47 000 cases in France, but we probably test like crazy. Still, hands off my Christmas vacation. Last year it was cancelled mid-November due to lockdown. Not fun with kids.
T8SC
Member
Health officials: Virus spreads in close contact, in order to slow down the spread try to limit how often you socialize with others. Maybe plan to do it a bit less up to time leading before Christmas so we can somehow offset the increase number of infections at the beginning of January?
Internet: It's started
Why do you find this acceptable?
Why don't you question the fact that 2 years on we're still being shovelled shit?
Maybe you're an introvert who hates mixing with 3 dimensional people but not everyone is like that.
I question the directors, i used to question management before I was that level and I expect people below me to question me too ... that is how we progress. Sheep don't, they just stand around on hills being "herd immunitied" to death.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
What is there to question? This is not a subject for a debate - you mingle, you spread the virus more. You spread the virus more, more people fall sick and if they are unvaccinated they end up in hospital or die. You are trying to be that one kid in class, that always goes 'but, but, but' for the sake of being edgy.
T8SC
Member
No I'm not trying to be edgy, but it's clear that you welcome this rinse & repeat approach for the foreseeable future with a vaccine that probably doesn't work for Omicron. Enjoy the booster & Merry Christmas, I hope your webcam is one of those 1080p Logitech's.
funkygunther
Banned
I question the directors, i used to question management before I was that level and I expect people below me to question me too ... that is how we progress. Sheep don't, they just stand around on hills being "herd immunitied" to death.
Yes you are very special wolf
T8SC
Member
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funkygunther
Banned
You've already ignored everything to do with time from between 3rd and 4th doses, you're not interested in discussion. It's all you deserve.
Edit: English not my first language mate, but I know that such boring gotchas are all you can do this late in the day
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