• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Crossplay really should be split down the middle between controller players and mouse players, mouse players shouldn't play with controller players.

NickFire

Member
i take it the tactical sprint hack isn’t giving you the edge?


I say that is a well deserved burn. Nothing against you OP, and I commend your passion for my current favorite game. But I agree with this fellow. Give the tactical sprint a rest before calling for more changes. This is not the same Duty as last year where bunny hopping and sliding was the meta. Tactical sprint should be used sparingly, mostly when running cover to cover.

Back on topic - I support segregating mouse and keyboard too. Although, I feel like this edition kind of does. The PC players usually seem to have controllers when I get matched up.
 

Js562

Member
No issue playing with people who use keyboard and mouse. Yeah there's times when they move quick as shit but if you dying all the time that's on you lol
Angry Jon Bernthal GIF by NETFLIX
 

Kagoshima_Luke

Gold Member
I used to be against KB/M playing with controller players, but after seeing the stats and just EXPERIENCING it in Halo and CoD, man... the aim assist... No longer have a problem with it.
 

0neAnd0nly

Gold Member
Oh boy let's have a look at some actual stats which where fortunately gathered from a public database thanks to Halo inifinite

x62u3fK.jpg


Hmm yes I see, very linear... I'm wondering if they turned it down a bit though if the stats would start to line up more, just saying.

Its game to game of course but getting salty at M+K on Modern Warfare and Halo Infinite is just looooooooooool. Certainly seems to be a recent trend on over compensating with the aim assist.
Nobody is talking about infinite. I specifically said mw2 and CW. Before that, 2019.

If you can’t see that there has been sheer dominance if you are KBM v. Controller you are simply in denial.

Just using common sense about how the inputs work = obvious why there is an advantage. If said advantage wasn’t real, you wouldn’t see gamers calling for separation and major titles beginning to separate them.
 
Only when it can’t fill a game with controller players. I’ve been playing with a controller on PC and it matches me with console players 95% of the time. If you’re saying it’s a mouse player because you see the steam logo next to their name they’re probably on controller. When you start the game on PC it makes you choose between m/k or controller and restart the game if you wanna switch.
Every single game I've had on Series X had at least 1 or more KB/M player active, sometimes more.
 
Like I f*cking said!!!! It doesn't matter if you play on Xbox or PC, if you use a mouse you should not be allowed to play with controller players!!!! PC players can use a controller too so this doesn't exclude PC players. No one gets excluded, it's just mouse players should not be playing against controller players period end of story.

That doesn't really answer my question but ok.
 

Chronicle

Member
STFU! everyone of you was crying for this feature two years ago. You get what you cry for. This is the problem with social media. Everyone crying for something they haven't even thought trough. Fucking idiots
 

Holammer

Member
The correct option is to get a M+KB and join them, if you want to operate a peak performance instead of being a glorified mook.

If this was a geniune matchmaking or balance problem, Activision would have implemented the changes already. They have no doubt gone over millions of play hours worth of data and consider the issue a nothing burger.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Whats it matter if the aim assist locks on? With the TTK being what it is in MWII the difference maker is how quickly you can initially target the enemy and KbM has the advantage there
Aim assist helps with recoil control too. You don't have any recoil control help with mouse.
Thats the shit I'm talking about.

It's stupid, whats the meaning of a mega aim-assist? Isn't the entire point of playing making you better? While they are on it, why don't they let the game play for yourself?
I am still trying to understand this since Golden Eye on N64.
 
Last edited:

Grildon Tundy

Gold Member
Aim assist helps with recoil control too. You don't have any recoil control help with mouse.
Fair point

I'd be curious if Infinity Ward has tuned KbM vs Controller settings to make it so that they're both equivalent in k/d over long-term. But I'd want them to confirm that publicly and for me to better understand HOW they did it.

I'm thinking KbM has the advantage on being able to scan 100 degrees across FOV onto someone's head quicker than a controller ever can, but then powered-up aim assist after that initial line-up makes up for that initial advantage. So it's "fair" overall in k/d but not equivalent, if that makes sense. I don't know how you'd make them equivalent in both "sections" of engagement (initial line up vs sustained fire), so I'd still prefer segregated KbM vs Controller options
 
Last edited:

REDRZA MWS

Member
STFU! everyone of you was crying for this feature two years ago. You get what you cry for. This is the problem with social media. Everyone crying for something they haven't even thought trough. Fucking idiots
Why you mad? It’s a simple fix by matchmaking via input method. Also for competitive balance purposes. As many here can attest if you play CoD, you in know dame well pc m&kb nerds have a distinct advantage. Also, I’m tired of hearing about aim assist. It slows your sim down as you get close to the target so it’s not the Godsend people here make it out to be.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Modern gaming is depressing.
Modern? It's like this and worse on some games (cof cof Halo and Destiny cof cof) since always on controllers. Good thing there is m+kb and/or at least option to turn assists off in some games.
 

Saber

Gold Member
I am still trying to understand this since Golden Eye on N64.

Goldeneye 64 is like an oldass game with clanky controls for fps and bad frame rate. Dude, this game is more than 2 decades old, not sure why even put as comparison.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Glad cross play is a thing, the one hacker keyboard mouse player out of 100 doesn’t ruin it. Played battlefield v with m/kb and it was incredible but I like controllers especially with Sony’s leaps and upgrades (haptic feedback).
 

svbarnard

Banned
Yeah its unfair to M/KB players.
The AimAssist in MW2 is insanely powerful.
Hell on PC I play with on controller cuz with a Canted Laser the game basically plays itself.



P.S
Wait arent you that guy who is against celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month?

Edit: Yup its that guy who wants to celebrate White People Month.
[/URL][/URL]

0304whitejpg-e7c05acfbec6f758.jpg

I am against racism and racial segregation. Look Microsoft Gamepass has a section just for hispanics and latinos, isn't that racial segregation? Also can you imagine if it said "Curated by White and Caucasian communities" instead? People would be protesting in the streets screaming THAT'S WHITE SUPREMACY and THAT'S RACIST!!!!! Oh the hypocrisy.
7PG7o2L.jpg
CZVL6Na.jpg
 
Last edited:

TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
Why do PC players (KBM specifically) think they should dominate every match? Aim Assist should be high to equal the field.
Why do I keep losing matches in AoE when I'm only using my mouse and no hotkeys?
Why do I keep losing in Tekken when I'm only using the left side of the controller and R1?

I should be given an advantage to make up for the fact I'm gimping myself!
 
Last edited:

Tygeezy

Member
What you guys fail to realize is that we are finally putting up CLOSE to equal stats.

Why do PC players (KBM specifically) think they should dominate every match? Aim Assist should be high to equal the field.

I play with a group of 4. 2 PC KBM, 2 Console Controller. The 1 KBM before the match starts in Cold War is able to move his mouse so fast his players moves at such a speed it looks like a glitch. If I max sensitivity and hold the stick all the way, we can’t even get close.

I agree with OP 100%. Separate KBM and controller.

Btw, as someone who played the MW2 beta on console and the full game routinely now on console, IMO they did nerf the AA somewhere in a hot patch a week after launch. I noticed the locking has fallen off for sure at least to some degree.

Could be just my mind, but I don’t think so as the other console player in my group said the same thing.
Controller has been stronger the entire team and we just never knew it. Aim assist has always been strong. Heck on the old halo you didn't even need to be using left stick for rotational aim assist to kick in. You don't even need aim assists with gyroscope but console players seemingly don't want to use it because they're use to how strong aim assist is.
 
Last edited:

0neAnd0nly

Gold Member
Why do I keep losing matches in AoE when I'm only using my mouse and no hotkeys?
Why do I keep losing in Tekken when I'm only using the left side of the controller and R1?

I should be given an advantage to make up for the fact I'm gimping myself!

Respectfully man, I think you are seeing it the wrong way. It may be gimped competitively (as in e-sports), but 99% of players on CoD just want to have fun with a bit of competition at night. My preference of controller shouldn’t be an issue, as a large part of the user base (likely the majority) play via console.

I am not asking (nor is anybody) that KBM players should not be allowed to play, there simply should be options to play only with controller or KBM or both. Period. Again, you didn’t answer why some games are beginning to do this.

Controller has been stronger the entire team and we just never knew it. Aim assist has always been strong. Heck on the old halo you didn't even need to be using left stick for rotational aim assist to kick in. You don't even need aim assists with gyroscope but console players seemingly don't want to use it because they're use to how strong aim assist is.

I am referring solely to CoD historically since crossplay. I can’t answer Halo, I don’t play it. Maybe that is the case.

Again though, dedicated options for both would fix this for you guys too. Don’t like AA console players? If you are KBM only, no issues.
 

Knightime_X

Member
aim assist in something like mwII isn't the same type of assist like in Serious Sam,
not even remotely close

aiming just slows down when near opponent
 

BlackTron

Member
I always used to wish that consoles would allow mouse and keyboard, so I could play FPS games on my platform of choice, with cheaper hardware, in an environment without cheating.

I wish I hadn't. Now, the tables have turned and controllers get aim assist that allows an average player with a controller to keep up with a really good one using a mouse. I wish it was 2005 again.
 

Tygeezy

Member
Respectfully man, I think you are seeing it the wrong way. It may be gimped competitively (as in e-sports), but 99% of players on CoD just want to have fun with a bit of competition at night. My preference of controller shouldn’t be an issue, as a large part of the user base (likely the majority) play via console.

I am not asking (nor is anybody) that KBM players should not be allowed to play, there simply should be options to play only with controller or KBM or both. Period. Again, you didn’t answer why some games are beginning to do this.



I am referring solely to CoD historically since crossplay. I can’t answer Halo, I don’t play it. Maybe that is the case.

Again though, dedicated options for both would fix this for you guys too. Don’t like AA console players? If you are KBM only, no issues.
Cod historically has had very strong rotational aim assist. It’s always been better for short to medium engagements because humans can’t track as fast and accurately as the rotational aim assist.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA

Playing with a controller requires skills, unlike a mouse where you just point and aim.
Theres a reason the majority of the best players uses controller.
But let's block cross play because I can't stand players who uses aimbot.
 

Tygeezy

Member
Playing with a controller requires skills, unlike a mouse where you just point and aim.
Theres a reason the majority of the best players uses controller.
But let's block cross play because I can't stand players who uses aimbot.
They use controller because the aim assist is better than human tracking. It requires much less skill to make sure the left analog stick is registering movement than it does to actually point and click on moving objects.
 

TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
Respectfully man, I think you are seeing it the wrong way. It may be gimped competitively (as in e-sports), but 99% of players on CoD just want to have fun with a bit of competition at night. My preference of controller shouldn’t be an issue, as a large part of the user base (likely the majority) play via console.
In casual play, sure. At least players should be able to set some kind of "join mixed controls" option.

But in competitive play? No way.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
They use controller because the aim assist is better than human tracking. It requires much less skill to make sure the left analog stick is registering movement than it does to actually point and click on moving objects.
I'm away of that.
I was just poking at the people in here who actually believes in that nonsense
 

Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
With aim assist I’m able to hold my own in destiny pvp on pc with a controller. Sure I’m not great but I hate pvp so hardly play it. Don’t blame my controller though.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Or you can get good:



Or use gyro assist.

Or change your input method for another older input method that don't suck for shooters.

PS: Aim assists are not there because of crossplay with PC/mouse, they exist since always for controllers.

I am fine with using either so I am good enough, thanks though
 

01011001

Banned
So explain shooting and missing by a few pixels?
Where's the assist in that regard?

the aim assist isn't aiming for you, it is helping you in every way it can. that includes slowing down close to the target and following the target to a degree.

if you are dogshit in shooters you will of course still miss.

but now you explain to me why 80% of all Apex pro players switched to Controller within the last few months after controller players started absolutely dominating the top 25 rankings.

But mouse is the ultimate aim assist.
It's practically auto aim.

are you high? have you ever played with a mouse in a competitive shooter?


and then we come to games like Halo and Dsstiny that have such crazy aim assist that the devs gave some of those aim assost feazures to Mouse players as well because Controller would be basically cheating if they didn't.
 
Last edited:

Knightime_X

Member
the aim assist isn't aiming for you, it is helping you in every way it can. that includes slowing down close to the target and following the target to a degree.

if you are dogshit in shooters you will of course still miss.

but now you explain to me why 80% of all Apex pro players switched to Controller within the last few months after controller players started absolutely dominating the top 25 rankings.



are you high? have you ever played with a mouse in a competitive shooter?


and then we come to games like Halo and Dsstiny that have such crazy aim assist that the devs gave some of those aim assost feazures to Mouse players as well because Controller would be basically cheating if they didn't.
Controller is better because moving with analog and button arrangement makes more sense than keyboard
Analog aiming takes a bit more finesse, as it's much more difficult to use vs mouse.
Even grandma can use a mouse easily.
 
Last edited:

01011001

Banned
Controller is better because moving with analog and button arrangement makes more sense than ASWD

in Apex Legends you have way better and more advanced movement possibilities on keyboard and mouse... and it's not even remotely close either.

the single most critical thing is that on Mouse and Keyboard you can loot death boxes while moving the character, basically being able to dodge bullets while looting.
this is completely impossible on controller due to the way Respawn programmed the inventory controls on controller.

then there's tap-strafing which is more situational but also something that keyboard gives you an advantage at.

so no, you are wrong :) keyboard and mouse in these games, especially Apex, gives you a massive movement advantage over controller simply due to the layout.

noone at high levels plays on controller because of the left analog stick, that is in fact one of the biggest downsides in switching to controller for these players.
and the players that did switch to controller from what I heard in streams etc. unanimously dislike moving with a stick compared to WASD because 8 directional inputs that are always identical is preferable to analog inputs that are always a little different.
 
Last edited:
So this doesn't exclude PC players because you can play with controller on PC. But I was playing the new COD MW 2 and it dawned on me that mouse players really shouldn't be playing against controller players. Again this doesn't exclude PC players, but crossplay should be divided up into two groups, one group for controller players only and the other for mouse players. It's just here I am playing on a controller and I'm fighting against dudes playing with a mouse and keyboard, this is hardly fair. Mouse players should play against other mouse players and controller players against other controller players, this is how crossplay should be set up.
But there is matchmaking. If matchmaking is good then that means that I am being matched with players who have proven to be similar skill level to me. Why do I care if he's using a mouse, a controller, a power glove, or a fucking potato? If we have similar skill then we have similar skill so that's the definition of a fair fight. Not an "equal" fight but a fair fight.

Don't worry, you aren't being matched with crazy skilled mouse players or crazy skilled controller players bc your elo isn't high enough so that wouldn't be fair regardless of what device they are using. You are probably an average controller player so you're currently beating and not being matched with trash mouse players. I don't understand the problem unless you're just someone who complains when things aren't perfectly equal. You are being put in fair fights dude. Go focus on trying to win them and stop worrying about what other ppl are doing. You can realistically win just about any match you are in. What more do you need to just chill and enjoy?
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
Man if you ask Dr. Disrespect, you'd think controller players were hacking.

I did see a video once about the settings you could use in Apex on controller that basically gives you aimbot-esque aiming. I know people are using it. There's no way that kid hit EVERY SHOT.

Should have won that game.

I don't think MW2 has similar auto-aim settings but I do feel that in close range battles I am at a disadvantage playing against controller players. Mouse and Keyboard players have to have much more muscle control to keep themselves on target, especially if that target is moving. In close quarters on controller, once you have your crosshairs on an enemy, the game actively resists any error in your thumbs movements. In Apex it could be downright forcing you to stay on target.

I guess all this is to say...well I kinda agree with you OP, buuuuut it would probably kill off any game not as popular as COD. Though there are some games who offer M+KB support on console, splitting crossplay the way you're suggesting basically means you are eliminating PC players from playing with consoles players. I'd prefer to just try to get better at dealing with controller players.
 

01011001

Banned
I did see a video once about the settings you could use in Apex on controller that basically gives you aimbot-esque aiming. I know people are using it. There's no way that kid hit EVERY SHOT.

Should have won that game.

I don't think MW2 has similar auto-aim settings but I do feel that in close range battles I am at a disadvantage playing against controller players.

aim assist in CoD is ridiculous compared to Apex.

the rotational assist is higher, you can customize your aim assist to almost act like like an emergency break as soon as your reticle is on the enemy and CoD has aim assist in sniper scopes, which Apex doesn't have.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom