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Cyberpunk 2077 disastrous launch allegedly in part due to outsource QA fraudulent conduct

Bartski

Gold Member



A 72 page document was sent by a whistleblower to YouTuber Upper Echelon Gamers, who has reported on Cyberpunk issues in the past. It focuses on Quantic Labs, a QA company who did a lot of testing work on Cyberpunk 2077. Among the allegations made:

  • Quantic Lab overexaggerated the size of the team working on Cyberpunk 2077 in order to keep the contract.
  • Quantic Lab said the team was made up of senior staff, but it was instead juniors with under six months experience in QA.
  • Quantic Lab had a daily quota of reported bugs, which led to CDPR getting thousands of relatively pointless bug reports from the testers which took up a lot of time, and caused gamebreaking issues to not be found or prioritized.
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
If you launched CP 2077 and played for just 1 hour, you knew it was a disaster.
And I'm sure the dev team played it, so don't tell me they needed that QA to know it was NOT ready (at all).

So yeah maybe they didn't do their job right, but this is a false excuse.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
If you launched CP 2077 and played for just 1 hour, you knew it was a disaster.
And I'm sure the dev team played it, so don't tell me they needed that QA to know it was NOT ready (at all).

So yeah maybe they didn't do their job right, but this is a false excuse.
Amen.

I'm sure Quantic Lab was responsible for launching it in December to hit the Christmas rush too. lol. Hell, the company only had almost 9 years to make the game since it was shown in an early 2012 trailer.

Lazy desperate CDPR is who launched it. Since then, the stock has taken a hammering. It was 400 PLN before launch (about $90 US). It dropped to around 250 after the disastrous launch, as everyone dumped it before it released.

The stock is now at 94 (about $20).
 
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Bragr

Banned
Fuck off, I got it on the PS4, and it crashed 3 times in 1 hour, had 2 other game-breaking bugs I had to restart the game for alongside numerous smaller bugs, it also had a fog filter that hurt the eyes to look at (they patched it out after a few hours after people got seizures from looking at it).

No way in hell they didn't know they launched a broken game.
 

Nezzeroth

Member
Gamebreaking bugs are the fault of the QA team because they reported minor stuff and not the important stuff? Bullshit. They didn’t even care to make the game perform decently on last gen consoles, despite knowing full well how bad it was and intentionally not showing a single video running the game on that hardware.

They knew the game was a disaster and didn’t care.
 

GHG

Member
You've got to be joking. The developers are the ones on the front line who know whether or not their code works. We weren't talking about multi-layered games systems bugs here that would only pop up if certain conditions were met, we are talking about a bunch of basic shit that just flat out didn't work.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
The fuck it was. The game need another year in development at least. Probably two years if we're totally honest.
Bad QA would be the least of that game's problems.
 

Pelta88

Member
The buck stops with CDPR.

They released CGI trailers and told gamers it was gameplay. All while refusing to show the game running on console. These were conscious and deliberate decisions made by CDPR. The narrative that it's somehow someone / some other studios fault is PR in its purest form. Plain and simple.

Me when ANY studio or Publisher tries to sell me a game WITHOUT showing me the actual game running on my platform of choice

giphy.gif
 
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I can see the Q/A company being shitty to keep a contract (many companies would do this to keep a it). Now this does not excuse the developers to release this mess of a game. I can see this as a way to place the blame on someone else (the lowest of the chain), instead of the real culprits "developers, management, bosses, etc" who knew the game needed more time.

I play my games from start to finish....are you telling me, they just do not test their own games?

angry monday night raw GIF by WWE
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
"whistleblower"

Some writers are running out of imaginative ways to define people running their mouth without a shred of evidence. 😂
 

reinking

Gold Member
I bought the PS4/5 version from BB for a total of $0 cash and a $10 BB credit. I just installed it this morning. Is it worth my time playing now on PS5?
 

op22

Member
I liked some of the bugs. I miss jump scares resulting from random cars falling from the sky. But I forgive them for taking that out. The remodeling on the best store chain in gaming makes up for it.
a5wATy6.jpg
 

ClosBSAS

Member
If you launched CP 2077 and played for just 1 hour, you knew it was a disaster.
And I'm sure the dev team played it, so don't tell me they needed that QA to know it was NOT ready (at all).

So yeah maybe they didn't do their job right, but this is a false excuse.
Not really on PC. It had bugs but nothing game breaking for me in my first playthrough. It's much better now yes. Last gen consoles though..that was a lie all along.

Also, upper echelon games...lmao. I used to like the guy but now he's just gone downhill
 
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KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
Not really on PC. It had bugs but nothing game breaking for me in my first playthrough. It's much better now yes. Last gen consoles though..that was a lie all along.

Also, upper echelon games...lmao. I used to like the guy but now he's just gone downhill

I disagree. You may not paid attention but the game was full of bugs. Rather it is on PC or consoles. But sure the console version was even worse.
Btw I played on PC too:

unknown.png


So please, this legend of the game being "ok" on PC needs to die. It was shit at launch, no mater on which support you played.
One example I can give you to explain how shitty this game is coded and still rigged with bugs:
Go into a street => aim with your weapon on the left => stop aim & look to the right => aim again for a few seconds then stop aim and look again on the left: every fuckin pedestrian has disappeared and is replaced by another model.

For real, I still have a few achievements I can't unlock because some quests are fuckin' bugged, 18 month after the release.
 

acm2000

Member
i mustve got lucky on pc, only had 1 full on crash in the entire playthrough, and no other serious bugs so go figure, loved it.
 

Killer8

Member
Like who, looks pretty spot on to me so far.

Here's what i'll say with 5+ years of experience in games QA: the story is absolutely believable. Gamers need a massive dose of reality when it comes to how QA really works.

Outsourced QA companies are routinely used in the industry. This is nothing new. Sometimes you will even have multiple outsource QA companies assisting, or even working in place of a game developer's internal QA. Just check the credits of most games released nowadays and you will frequently see names like KWS, Quantic Lab, PTW, QLOC etc. Cyberpunk looks like it used both QLOC and Quantic Lab.

These external QA companies often have more responsibility than you'd expect. Senior staff will formulate test plans themselves based on documentation sent over by the game developer. They may also be trusted to make the call on whether the game is in a good enough state to ship. If these people fuck up and miss something, it absolutely can reflect in the quality of the final product. In my own experience, these companies are frequently mismanaged and bleed talent due to shitty working conditions plus poor wages (but gamers are head in sand regarding that point too). So the line about how they had junior people with under 6 months experience working on the game is not surprising at all.

Neither is the revelation of the company lying to cover that up. One company I worked for would often shuttle people from its localization projects within the same office and dump them on the functionality projects, just to get asses on seats - despite it being a different branch of QA testing altogether. Bug quotas are an absolutely terrible practice, because they reinforce a culture of just reporting small shit to make it look like they are doing something, rather than focusing on important shit. You can have someone who you'd say is a 'great' tester on paper because they reported 100 art bugs, but then if they miss multiple major quest breaking bugs, you can't really same the same about them can you?

Gamers also seem to have this view that programmers magically know everything. Even on a project of CP2077's size, it's just a dozen or so people having to keep this spaghetti code together. You can have literally 100s of thousands of bug reports over the course of a project, so good luck keeping tabs on what still needs to be done without decent QA...

"How did they miss this!?" is also frequently uttered on forums when player's encounter bugs that made it into the final game. Truth is, they likely didn't miss that. If their QA was competent, you might even find the very bug report for that issue sitting as a priority 4 in their JIRA - there were just much more pressing issues for the strained programming team to deal with, like stopping the game from crashing every two minutes.

All of this doesn't exonerate CDPR at all, but it's seriously dumb to suggest it wasn't a major contributor. Outside the outsource issues, the project managers bear the most responsibility. The execs who wanted the game to release on time for Christmas probably even more responsibility. Sony and Microsoft also share responsibility for not gatekeeping like they should have (their TRC/TCR checklists absolutely should have denied this game to release in the state it did). It's just a failure on every level from top-to-bottom.
 
Here's what i'll say with 5+ years of experience in games QA: the story is absolutely believable. Gamers need a massive dose of reality when it comes to how QA really works.

Outsourced QA companies are routinely used in the industry. This is nothing new. Sometimes you will even have multiple outsource QA companies assisting, or even working in place of a game developer's internal QA. Just check the credits of most games released nowadays and you will frequently see names like KWS, Quantic Lab, PTW, QLOC etc. Cyberpunk looks like it used both QLOC and Quantic Lab.

These external QA companies often have more responsibility than you'd expect. Senior staff will formulate test plans themselves based on documentation sent over by the game developer. They may also be trusted to make the call on whether the game is in a good enough state to ship. If these people fuck up and miss something, it absolutely can reflect in the quality of the final product. In my own experience, these companies are frequently mismanaged and bleed talent due to shitty working conditions plus poor wages (but gamers are head in sand regarding that point too). So the line about how they had junior people with under 6 months experience working on the game is not surprising at all.

Neither is the revelation of the company lying to cover that up. One company I worked for would often shuttle people from its localization projects within the same office and dump them on the functionality projects, just to get asses on seats - despite it being a different branch of QA testing altogether. Bug quotas are an absolutely terrible practice, because they reinforce a culture of just reporting small shit to make it look like they are doing something, rather than focusing on important shit. You can have someone who you'd say is a 'great' tester on paper because they reported 100 art bugs, but then if they miss multiple major quest breaking bugs, you can't really same the same about them can you?

Gamers also seem to have this view that programmers magically know everything. Even on a project of CP2077's size, it's just a dozen or so people having to keep this spaghetti code together. You can have literally 100s of thousands of bug reports over the course of a project, so good luck keeping tabs on what still needs to be done without decent QA...

"How did they miss this!?" is also frequently uttered on forums when player's encounter bugs that made it into the final game. Truth is, they likely didn't miss that. If their QA was competent, you might even find the very bug report for that issue sitting as a priority 4 in their JIRA - there were just much more pressing issues for the strained programming team to deal with, like stopping the game from crashing every two minutes.

All of this doesn't exonerate CDPR at all, but it's seriously dumb to suggest it wasn't a major contributor. Outside the outsource issues, the project managers bear the most responsibility. The execs who wanted the game to release on time for Christmas probably even more responsibility. Sony and Microsoft also share responsibility for not gatekeeping like they should have (their TRC/TCR checklists absolutely should have denied this game to release in the state it did). It's just a failure on every level from top-to-bottom.
Now that you've got all that off your chest, that's not what i asked. I asked who are these armchair specialists that you're referring to in this thread, or was it just bait for the wall of text?

As for the wall of text itself, it's not exactly a revelation to anyone. And this would've all stopped at UAT if it was true. Speaking as a QA of 13 years at outsourcing companies in particular, if we're dropping numbers anyway.
 
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Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Here's what i'll say with 5+ years of experience in games QA: the story is absolutely believable. Gamers need a massive dose of reality when it comes to how QA really works.

Outsourced QA companies are routinely used in the industry. This is nothing new. Sometimes you will even have multiple outsource QA companies assisting, or even working in place of a game developer's internal QA. Just check the credits of most games released nowadays and you will frequently see names like KWS, Quantic Lab, PTW, QLOC etc. Cyberpunk looks like it used both QLOC and Quantic Lab.

These external QA companies often have more responsibility than you'd expect. Senior staff will formulate test plans themselves based on documentation sent over by the game developer. They may also be trusted to make the call on whether the game is in a good enough state to ship. If these people fuck up and miss something, it absolutely can reflect in the quality of the final product. In my own experience, these companies are frequently mismanaged and bleed talent due to shitty working conditions plus poor wages (but gamers are head in sand regarding that point too). So the line about how they had junior people with under 6 months experience working on the game is not surprising at all.

Neither is the revelation of the company lying to cover that up. One company I worked for would often shuttle people from its localization projects within the same office and dump them on the functionality projects, just to get asses on seats - despite it being a different branch of QA testing altogether. Bug quotas are an absolutely terrible practice, because they reinforce a culture of just reporting small shit to make it look like they are doing something, rather than focusing on important shit. You can have someone who you'd say is a 'great' tester on paper because they reported 100 art bugs, but then if they miss multiple major quest breaking bugs, you can't really same the same about them can you?

Gamers also seem to have this view that programmers magically know everything. Even on a project of CP2077's size, it's just a dozen or so people having to keep this spaghetti code together. You can have literally 100s of thousands of bug reports over the course of a project, so good luck keeping tabs on what still needs to be done without decent QA...

"How did they miss this!?" is also frequently uttered on forums when player's encounter bugs that made it into the final game. Truth is, they likely didn't miss that. If their QA was competent, you might even find the very bug report for that issue sitting as a priority 4 in their JIRA - there were just much more pressing issues for the strained programming team to deal with, like stopping the game from crashing every two minutes.

All of this doesn't exonerate CDPR at all, but it's seriously dumb to suggest it wasn't a major contributor. Outside the outsource issues, the project managers bear the most responsibility. The execs who wanted the game to release on time for Christmas probably even more responsibility. Sony and Microsoft also share responsibility for not gatekeeping like they should have (their TRC/TCR checklists absolutely should have denied this game to release in the state it did). It's just a failure on every level from top-to-bottom.
So if they used two external QA contractors in addition to their internal QA team how does one company lying lead to the giant mess that Cyberpunk was?
You're not very convincing.
 

TheGecko

Banned
You telling me those dick head so called "developers" and game "journalists" didn't actually play that trash?

Every single one of those devs and every single one of those journos can literally go fuck themselves until the end of time for what they did.
 
Lies lies lies.
You tell me that you had no one playtesting this piece of shit on last gen hardware??

Seriously you can turn on a framerate counter on development kits or not??

This shitshow was running sometime at what? 15fps??
Not 15FPS on my PS4 Pro but definitely below 30FPS for most of the time and on top of that crashing to blue screen every 20-30 minutes. I put like 50 hours into that game despite the crashes and must've submitted a thousand crash reports lol.
 

wvnative

Member
Here's what i'll say with 5+ years of experience in games QA: the story is absolutely believable. Gamers need a massive dose of reality when it comes to how QA really works.

Outsourced QA companies are routinely used in the industry. This is nothing new. Sometimes you will even have multiple outsource QA companies assisting, or even working in place of a game developer's internal QA. Just check the credits of most games released nowadays and you will frequently see names like KWS, Quantic Lab, PTW, QLOC etc. Cyberpunk looks like it used both QLOC and Quantic Lab.

These external QA companies often have more responsibility than you'd expect. Senior staff will formulate test plans themselves based on documentation sent over by the game developer. They may also be trusted to make the call on whether the game is in a good enough state to ship. If these people fuck up and miss something, it absolutely can reflect in the quality of the final product. In my own experience, these companies are frequently mismanaged and bleed talent due to shitty working conditions plus poor wages (but gamers are head in sand regarding that point too). So the line about how they had junior people with under 6 months experience working on the game is not surprising at all.

Neither is the revelation of the company lying to cover that up. One company I worked for would often shuttle people from its localization projects within the same office and dump them on the functionality projects, just to get asses on seats - despite it being a different branch of QA testing altogether. Bug quotas are an absolutely terrible practice, because they reinforce a culture of just reporting small shit to make it look like they are doing something, rather than focusing on important shit. You can have someone who you'd say is a 'great' tester on paper because they reported 100 art bugs, but then if they miss multiple major quest breaking bugs, you can't really same the same about them can you?

Gamers also seem to have this view that programmers magically know everything. Even on a project of CP2077's size, it's just a dozen or so people having to keep this spaghetti code together. You can have literally 100s of thousands of bug reports over the course of a project, so good luck keeping tabs on what still needs to be done without decent QA...

"How did they miss this!?" is also frequently uttered on forums when player's encounter bugs that made it into the final game. Truth is, they likely didn't miss that. If their QA was competent, you might even find the very bug report for that issue sitting as a priority 4 in their JIRA - there were just much more pressing issues for the strained programming team to deal with, like stopping the game from crashing every two minutes.

All of this doesn't exonerate CDPR at all, but it's seriously dumb to suggest it wasn't a major contributor. Outside the outsource issues, the project managers bear the most responsibility. The execs who wanted the game to release on time for Christmas probably even more responsibility. Sony and Microsoft also share responsibility for not gatekeeping like they should have (their TRC/TCR checklists absolutely should have denied this game to release in the state it did). It's just a failure on every level from top-to-bottom.
Thanks for the insight! Would you be able to share what exactly Sony and Microsoft look for during the certification process? Always wondered about that in regards to how a game like cyberpunk 2077 gets released
 
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