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Daily reminder, MS owns Orion, a tech which reduces latency and bandwidth, while streaming.

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kingfey

Banned
What is Orion?

Orion is a streaming tech, bethesda developed. Its used to reduce the latency and bandwidth, when you are streaming cloud games.

"Orion technology reduces latency and bandwidth while streaming a game, making streamed games accessible to more people, in more areas, at higher quality. ... Integrated within the game engine itself, Orion can achieve dramatic latency reductions of up to 20% per frame as well as up to a 40% reduction in required bandwidth."





At its 2019 E3 showcase, Bethesda revealed Orion, its patented cloud streaming SDK, which it says its easy to integrate into existing games. Bethesda claims Orion allows games to run at "max settings" with minimal bandwidth usage, even if you live far away from a data center. To demonstrate these claims, Bethesda and id Software who are leading development of this SDK, demonstrated DOOM 2016 at 4K 60 frames per second, running on a smartphone. We've uploaded the presentation clip so you can take a look below. (Clip is on the website)
 
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elliot5

Member
Its on use right now now.

Xcloud is much better now, than before. Before they bought bethesda, it was hot garbage.

We should see more stability as time goes on.
Gonna need a source for this. It's much better now because they upgraded to xsx blades which means better framerate, encoding, and speed.

If you look at Orion on id website it mentions needing to have the sdk integrated in the game engine. It needs to be adopted. It's not some magic backend. Maybe MS can find a way to integrate it into their pipeline somehow, but that work has yet to be proven out.

I know in recent interviews the chief architect said they have some tricks up their sleeves they're working on, and I have no doubt it'll continue to improve, but I haven't seen any confirmation of Orion being used.
 

kingfey

Banned
Would the microsoft corporation use this to improve the service of their best deal in gaming xbox gamepass?
They are working on it. Xcloud had improved tremendously lately.

Once the tech is fully integrated to the xcloud, expect stadia level of quality, or much better than it.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
I would much prefer to remind everyone that Microsoft is sitting on the Freelancer & Crimson skies IPs and are doing nothing about it.

Doctor Who Reaction GIF
 

kingfey

Banned
Gonna need a source for this. It's much better now because they upgraded to xsx blades which means better framerate, encoding, and speed.

If you look at Orion on id website it mentions needing to have the sdk integrated in the game engine. It needs to be adopted. It's not some magic backend. Maybe MS can find a way to integrate it into their pipeline somehow, but that work has yet to be proven out.

I know in recent interviews the chief architect said they have some tricks up their sleeves they're working on, and I have no doubt it'll continue to improve, but I haven't seen any confirmation of Orion being used.
Xsx doesn't improve the latency. Frame rate, graphics, and loading speed yes, but not latency.

Latency is a bigger deal, because of the amount of data that you are dealing with. You are dealing data from the client to the hardware. You will have delay response time, due to that. XsX in this case would cause a bigger delay time, since you are getting in to the 4k territory. The response time gets tricky.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
I would much prefer to remind everyone that Microsoft is sitting on the Freelancer & Crimson skies IPs and are doing nothing about it.

Doctor Who Reaction GIF

You had to remind me and now im in a less good mood than I was like a minute ago.
Arent they also holding the Mech Assault games license?
 

elliot5

Member
Xsx doesn't improve the latency. Frame rate, graphics, and loading speed yes, but not latency.

Latency is a bigger deal, because of the amount of data that you are dealing with. You are dealing data from the client to the hardware. You will have delay response time, due to that. XsX in this case would cause a bigger delay time, since you are getting in to the 4k territory. The response time gets tricky.
You're not outputting video at 4k or HDR like Stadia can though. It's still sdr 1080p. Doesn't matter what the game is running at.

Latency yes maybe it doesn't improve that, but the end user isn't counting latency they're checking for responsiveness. Higher framerate absolutely increases the responsiveness and perception of latency which improved significantly since the xsx upgrade.

There must be games optimized for xCloud already using whatever sdk Microsoft has because games like Sea of Thieves run way way way better than some other titles. Near native IQ and responsiveness. Plus robust touch interfaces. I hope to see more games like that
 

kingfey

Banned
You're not outputting video at 4k or HDR like Stadia can though. It's still sdr 1080p. Doesn't matter what the game is running at.

Latency yes maybe it doesn't improve that, but the end user isn't counting latency they're checking for responsiveness. Higher framerate absolutely increases the responsiveness and perception of latency which improved significantly since the xsx upgrade.

There must be games optimized for xCloud already using whatever sdk Microsoft has because games like Sea of Thieves run way way way better than some other titles. Near native IQ and responsiveness. Plus robust touch interfaces. I hope to see more games like that
They do it. They usually let us know, which game is using xcloud. Its has cloud on it. As more games gets optimized for XSX, we would see better frame rates, and fast load time.
 

kingfey

Banned
Why do you think this site needs a daily reminder of this fandom fact?

Are you employed by MS or something?

Or did you mistake NeoGaf for the official XCloud forums?
People keep screaming about latency, and how cloud games have problems with latency.

Since MS owns this tech, I would like to put that latency argument to rest.
 
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People keep screaming about latency, and how cloud games have problems with latency.

Since MS owns this tech, I would like to put that latency argument to rest.

Why make a new thread about it instead of just answering those individuals in the specific threads where cloud service latency is being discussed?

That said, XCloud does add latency... It's impossible for it not too. Example of a test of the Beta:



Even if Orion tech has been improved since then and the latency added by XCloud has been reduced, it can't be completely eliminated due to the nature of physics.

So I'm not sure what exactly you think you're putting to rest with this thread.
 

kingfey

Banned
Even if Orion tech has been improved since then and the latency added by XCloud has been reduced, it can't be completely eliminated due to the nature of physics.
Like you said here, it won't make it disappear due to physics. But it would make xcloud smooth to play, than the current one we have.

As of now, they are still in the process of bethesda transition. It will take time, but we will get there.

This tech, and MS resources would make xcloud the best cloud gaming, and might rival the consoles in the future, once Orion is fully integrated to the xcloud.
 

John Wick

Member
What is Orion?

Orion is a streaming tech, bethesda developed. Its used to reduce the latency and bandwidth, when you are streaming cloud games.


Is this that magic tech that will allow MS to surpass the limitations of the actual Internet? So someone with a shitty connection will have better than Stadia at high resolution?
Also will this tech use the power of the cloud this time?
 
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Buggy Loop

Member
You had to remind me and now im in a less good mood than I was like a minute ago.
Arent they also holding the Mech Assault games license?

Yup, Mech Assault too. Microsoft back then had the mentality that if it did not sell X amount, that was it for the franchise. While nowadays they want to make you think that all these studios they bought have money raining down on them to do whatever they want.. we shall see I guess..
 

kingfey

Banned
Is this that magic tech that will allow MS to surpass the limitations of the actual Internet? So someone with a shitty connection will have better than Stadia at high resolution?
Also will this tech use the power of the cloud this time?

At 3:43

"Orion technology reduces latency and bandwidth while streaming a game, making streamed games accessible to more people, in more areas, at higher quality. ... Integrated within the game engine itself, Orion can achieve dramatic latency reductions of up to 20% per frame as well as up to a 40% reduction in required bandwidth."


At its 2019 E3 showcase, Bethesda revealed Orion, its patented cloud streaming SDK, which it says its easy to integrate into existing games. Bethesda claims Orion allows games to run at "max settings" with minimal bandwidth usage, even if you live far away from a data center. To demonstrate these claims, Bethesda and id Software who are leading development of this SDK, demonstrated DOOM 2016 at 4K 60 frames per second, running on a smartphone. We've uploaded the presentation clip so you can take a look below. (Clip is on the website)

a "cutting-edge game-engine based technology [they] developed specifically for game streaming"
"a tremendous breakthrough in streaming technology...a group of patented technologies that optimize game engines for performance in a cloud environment... [that] can work with any game engine and will improve player experiences no matter which game you're playing or whether you're streaming on Stadia, on xCloud, or another streaming technology"

As for stadia, it has advantage over xcloud, which is browser integration, and built in app. These actually enhances the experience of Stadia, not to mention, its a pc model.
 

kingfey

Banned
Why make a new thread about it instead of just answering those individuals in the specific threads where cloud service latency is being discussed?

That said, XCloud does add latency... It's impossible for it not too. Example of a test of the Beta:



Even if Orion tech has been improved since then and the latency added by XCloud has been reduced, it can't be completely eliminated due to the nature of physics.

So I'm not sure what exactly you think you're putting to rest with this thread.
"Integrated within the game engine itself, Orion can achieve dramatic latency reductions of up to 20% per frame as well as up to a 40% reduction in required bandwidth."

That is what Orion can do. Fully integrated Orion will reduce it even more than what it can now. Especially when paired with Microsoft resources.
 
So that's why I can actually use xcloud now
I wish I could. It doesn't work well for me at all. If I use RemotePlay to play my Series X, it usually works well enough, but if I try streaming with XCloud it's a pretty rough experience.

I was hoping once I got fiber optic Internet, it would be better, but so far, it's not.
 

elliot5

Member
Does Hades use this? I was quite surprised by the latency on xcloud.
Don't think so, but it runs very well. Fully custom touch controls, too! Unsure if it's just a byproduct of the kind of game it is running at 60 fps, or if they put in the extra work to make the Cloud aspect shine (aside from the custom controls). I feel like they must have made it robust if they went through with the UI for touch. Can't imagine the rest of the Cloud optimization was that much more effort.
 
Always find it weird how critics are like "But not everyone has high speed internet!"

Not everyone has $1,000+ dollars to spend on a TV, which is why Walmart exist.

Not everyone can afford a 2021 GMC Yukon which is why Toyota Carollas exist.

Streaming isn't for gamers with shoddy internet and that's OK.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
I wish I could. It doesn't work well for me at all. If I use RemotePlay to play my Series X, it usually works well enough, but if I try streaming with XCloud it's a pretty rough experience.

I was hoping once I got fiber optic Internet, it would be better, but so far, it's not.
It always depends on server proximity, I can feel the difference on every cloud service (I haven't tried luma though) between me and my brother's place at something like 10km distance.We are both using 1Gb/s fiber connection.
 
It always depends on server proximity, I can feel the difference on every cloud service (I haven't tried luma though) between me and my brother's place at something like 10km distance.We are both using 1Gb/s fiber connection.
Where are the servers? I'm in Oklahoma, right in the center of the US.
 
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MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Higher frame rate definitely improves latency. On Oculus Quest 2 going from 60fps to 120fps reduces latency from 56ms to 31ms.

Yes it's why you can feel the difference between 30FPs and 60FPs. I always noticed the improved latency.

My main issue with streaming games is latency. That's something I always notice no matter the streaming platform. I agree that for some games it's fine but for really fast paced games it ruins the experience.
 
Light travels 186 miles in one milisecond. So If your computer is in LA and the server is in New York thats 2780 miles/186=14 miliseconds of lag across the country you could half that by putting the servers in Houston or OK city.
7 Miliseconds.
Is my napkin math correct?
 
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