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Opinion Drama Cringe David Jaffe sucks at Metroid

Bboy AJ

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I agree with him. He’s had a GAF account longer than most of you have been playing video games. Meanwhile, you bash him for being a noob or wanting his hand held because modern gaming? Nah. It’s just bad design. Give a visual indicator.
 

Wildebeest

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Nintendo would deliberately add things like this, which block progress, to give kids something to talk about in the playground. The idea that a game has to cleared in one sitting without any spoilers or hints is a cultural bias.
 

BlackTron

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Thanks for the warning, the early game gave me the impression all the breakable walls were identified and obvious. Now I can just start running around shooting everything in sight.
 
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RoboFu

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I agree with him. He’s had a GAF account longer than most of you have been playing video games. Meanwhile, you bash him for being a noob or wanting his hand held because modern gaming? Nah. It’s just bad design. Give a visual indicator.
The enemy is a visual indicator.
There is always an “ view “ to an area or a visible tunnel to get you to try the area.

If You want a stream of “ instant tiny gratification “ there are literally thousands of other games to choose from. doesn’t mean this is bad design.
 
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llOswaldll

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I'll agree with Jaffee for once here, I hate when there is random obscure shit you have to do for no reason other than to be obscure. If the game has made it clear it's design is that way than it's understandable and can be really cool in fact, but shoot a ceiling for no reason out of nowhere is silly.
 
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WitchHunter

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Seems like everyone in this thread who agrees with him haven't actually played the game.

If you need arrows constantly pointing at where you need to go then don't play games that are designed to be mazes.
It's good until people start to shoot every wall in the game like in old RPGs. If that's what meant to give you satisfaction, then it's fucked.
 

AEBrock

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There is always an “ view “ to an area or a visible tunnel to get you to try the area.

It does this throughout the game in like 5-10 areas that are completely inaccessible to the player until you get a later item. If you go back and replay the game and have forgotten the solution to this room, it you will actually take you longer to get through this point because the game will have untrained you to think a large, visible room is potentially passable.
 
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Atrus

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There was a view to another area on the same screen which is an obvious hint. These side-scrolling action adventures require you to build a mental map of the layout in order to progress and this is true from pretty much their gaming origins.

If this game has issues then this certainly wasn't it.

You shoot at everything, attempt to pass through anything in every form or state from every direction, and consider how every pickup or enemy might in fact allow access to new areas in old zones.
 

TrueLegend

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He is giving his opinion. You can agree and disagree with him but people calling stuff like handholding, and people comparing his complaint to souls game cryers are noobs who had problems defeating boss like Index gundyr for sure and are overcompensating their incompetence at video games, for them every game they like is flawless in design. I love Dark Souls, all three of them but even they have made horrible design choices at many places. He is simply saying this kind of inconsistency is unacceptable for a good-level design. And I partially agree with him.

Also, I will say gamers are not used to being handheld now, and you are not some elite. You are a pretentious buffoon. Infact presence of the internet has put you into this inaccurate line of thought that many people have high intuition. They dont, you don't, the inclusion of game help feature in PS5 UI is the proof of how most people nowadays play. If they face a hurdle they quickly google something about it. If there was no internet most people won't find out how to get on arch dragon peak because you won't know if it exists ffs. The difference is that when you play Dark Souls 'III' you know what kind of inconsistencies you are signing up for, with Metroid Dredd you don't.
 
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Porcile

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The visual clues are the enemy, the corridor and the map literally begging you to go that direction. It's not like it's one single block either, there's four of the damn things. Jaffe's brain is fried from too much coke in his younger days maybe.
 

Dr.D00p

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I've always found these Metroid games to be pretty inaccessible TBH. I've tried playing the early ones (via emulation) and find them rock hard and all the back tracking really tedious, but I can see why they appeal to the hardcore..you have to work for it. They're the 2D equivalent of the Souls games.
 
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Punished Miku

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The most painful part is that he doesn't use the 360 aiming well, so even trying to shoot that block above him was painful and labored. When I'm playing I have a finger over L1 at all times. I can easily 360 aim anywhere I want instantly and effortlessly. He's aiming like it's Mega Man 2.

Also, as you progress further in the game, you keep getting upgrades at a ridiculous rate. And many of the upgrades make finding hidden blocks 100x easier. It turns a trivial exploration issue into literally a complete non-issue.

Hidden blocks are old school, but I had literally zero issue with it. Never even really got lost honestly, which is saying a lot for me and a Metroidvainia. The pacing is so consistent it feels like Die Hard or Vanquish or something where the whole game takes place in real time in one day. I never stopped moving forward.
 

Punished Miku

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I just have to say it for people that think this game has bad design and you have to shoot every wall.

Ability spoiler:

You literally gain the ability to scan the entire room instantly and it highlights every hidden block. You also gain multiple weapons that makes shooting anything trivial.
 
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Aldric

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This reminds me of Jonathan Blow getting stuck in Hollow Knight because he didn't understand you could cut vines to make certain platforms drop and failing to use the cooking in BotW. Really bizarre seeing experienced developpers with zero understanding of basic systems and mechanics.
 

Ailynn

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I never realized we had so many people here at NeoGAF who've had zero previous experience with a Metroid game before. :lollipop_downcast_sweat:

The game is absolutely brilliant and everything I've hoped for in a sequel to Metroid Fusion for 19 years now. It has the best controls of any 2D game I've ever played (I used the Pro Controller), and there are new sequence breaking techniques already being found about every day. I just completed the game 100% with no guides, and had a blast the entire way through. It's my personal favorite game of 2021, as well as probably the past 5 years.


I love David Jaffe and I know he's an intelligent guy- Maybe he got so upset because he was live streaming when he got stuck?
 
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Dec 7, 2008
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Metroid was always about exploring the environment, including finding shootable blocks. This isn't nearly as cryptic as he makes it out to be.

I'd also like to mention how he keeps missing with the "jumping shot" and apparently never uses diagonal shooting.

sorry David, but you are starting getting to old for this shit. The only thing that fell apart is your career.
OP says it best.

The series has always had the aspect of shooting invisible blocks and it should've been expected this new game would have some of that as well.

Time to go play Super Mario Bros 1, that seems to be more his speed these days
 

HTK

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Metroid was always about exploring the environment, including finding shootable blocks. This isn't nearly as cryptic as he makes it out to be.

I'd also like to mention how he keeps missing with the "jumping shot" and apparently never uses diagonal shooting.

sorry David, but you are starting getting to old for this shit. The only thing that fell apart is your career.
He's actually right and you lost credibility with the personal attack, Congratulations you just played yourself.
 

Punished Miku

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Jaffe is the only one brave enough to criticize Nintendo. Everyone else worships whatever game critics like Greg Miller tell them to. Jaffes legend only grows with the creation of this thread.
Jaffe is a cool guy and I love that he streams and podcasts now. I don't mind people having an opinion different than my own. I'm not a fan of people trashing him personally, trashing him as some bad developer, etc.

But all that said, on this opinion he's wrong because he's clearly playing the game wrong. He isn't even 360 aiming at all. It looks cumbersome and painful because he is playing it in a cumbersome and painful way. I'm not even good at Metroid games and I've been flying through this game. Most Metroid fans are complaining that it's actually too linear, not too obtuse. Personally, I think it's the perfect balance of complex map and exploration with some secrets combined with near flawless pacing that limits excessive, wasteful backtracking. Even in the video I watched of him, he says there's zero indication on the map and it's bad design. The map actually shows a room directly above him that he can see with enemies walking around, and the map shows no entrances to it, so it obviously has to be a secret door.

It's just not that hard. The game wants you to move forward, not backtrack the entire map over and over wandering around. If you don't see where to go forward, just look around a bit and its usually right there.
 

ZywyPL

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I totally understand the complaint, I have a similar issue with Kena and F.I.S.T. right now, except the other way around - very often you clearly see there's a way to get somewhere, but you don't know if you have to figure it out now, or need to get back later with new set of skills, so all the time you end up wasting a lot of time desperately trying to figure out how to open the damn new path, for nothing.

This is the issue I find with non-linear games that allow for backtracking, actually are build around it, you're often "stuck" because you don't know if you should figure out either where to go next now or how to get to what seems to be within your reach.



He's actually right and you lost credibility with the personal attack, Congratulations you just played yourself.

You're both right to some degree, while the design is bad, watching Jaffe playing the game made me feel "damn Jaffe, you're getting too old for gaming, wonder when my time will come as well?".
 
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HTK

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I totally understand the complaint, I have a similar issue with Kena and F.I.S.T. right now, except the other way around - very often you clearly see there's a way o get somewhere, but you don't know if you have to figure it ot now, or need to get back later with new set of skills, so all the time you end up wasting a lot of time desperately trying to figure out how to open the damn new path, for nothing.

This is the issue I find with non-linear games that allow for backtracking, actually are build around it, you're often "stuck" because you don't know if you should figure out either where to go next now or how to get to what seems to be within your reach.





You're both right to some degree, while the design is bad, watching Jaffe playing the game made me feel "damn Jaffe, you're getting too old for gaming, wonder when my time will come as well?".
Games are for everyone at any age and to make fun of someone that creates them and plays them just sounds idiotic to me. Too old for gaming? Since when did we put that restriction on?
 

Jsisto

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Oct 11, 2019
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I mean….I agree in that there should have been a bit more of an indicator, in fact I think I got stuck at this point for a short period as well. But the way he’s using his blaster makes it seem like it’s a finite resource. Bad design? Perhaps. But for me this slight annoyance is more of a learning experience that you can take with you for the entire rest of the game. You just need to go in guns blazing, there’s no consequence.
 
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I'm the type who explores every inch of the map and always on the lookout for secrets so I never have these kind of issues but I can see it being a problem for others.
 
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AJUMP23

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Metroid Dread is the new git gud game.

After all the souls talk about the game, I found the first boss fine. You just need to learn the pattern.
I finally had an encounter last night with a boss, and didn't die on the first attempt. I beat him on the initial meeting, that felt good.
 

ZywyPL

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Games are for everyone at any age and to make fun of someone that creates them and plays them just sounds idiotic to me. Too old for gaming? Since when did we put that restriction on?

That's a bit of false narrative IMO. Sure, games can be picked up by anyone, but at the same time not everyone has the required reflex, reaction time, precision etc., it just fades out with age. Same applies the other way around BTW, few year old kids have hard time with even the simplest games, but as the grow up and their manual skills get better and better, so are they with video games.
 

Mess

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The funny thing is that he kept jumping and hitting his head on the ceiling to try to kill the mob there. While the shots kept passing under the mob. Because you're kinda supposed to shoot diagonally here. And if you do you're gonna shoot the fucking roof.

The enemy is the clue but it requires to use basic game mechanisms...
 

Punished Miku

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That's a bit of false narrative IMO. Sure, games can be picked up by anyone, but at the same time not everyone has the required reflex, reaction time, precision etc., it just fades out with age. Same applies the other way around BTW, few year old kids have hard time with even the simplest games, but as the grow up and their manual skills get better and better, so are they with video games.
Right. He's staked out a mutually exclusive position from the fans, which is part of the backlash. 1) Bad game design, so change it. 2) Good game design, keep it and improve how you play.

It's one or the other really and can't be both.
 

chixdiggit

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I never realized we had so many people here at NeoGAF who've had zero previous experience with a Metroid game before. :lollipop_downcast_sweat:
Just because a game did something 35 years ago doesn't mean it should continue the tradition.
The original Metroid also didn't have a map or save rooms, should this one be the same? Long gone are the days of 128Kb games with the limitations of 8 bit graphics and two button controls.
It's 2021 and I have an expectation of games evolving with the times. That means graphics, quality of life features, and game design.
 

Bodomism

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Literally just a minute at the start of the game lol.
 
x1

TurnOneYeti

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Love Metroid and Prime 1 is one of my favorite games of all time ... but I have to agree with Jaffe on this. If the wall/ceiling provided access to a secret room or power up, it would be one thing, but destroying the nondescript ceiling/wall is required to progress through the game. I can see his frustrations ... I think Nintendo planned on players to hit the wall while manually aiming and shooting at the ceiling monsters ... and despite Jaffe controlling Samus like she's Megaman ... it doesn't make him wrong, .
 

RoboFu

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Just because a game did something 35 years ago doesn't mean it should continue the tradition.
The original Metroid also didn't have a map or save rooms, should this one be the same? Long gone are the days of 128Kb games with the limitations of 8 bit graphics and two button controls.
It's 2021 and I have an expectation of games evolving with the times. That means graphics, quality of life features, and game design.

Yeah that has been great hasn't it.

 
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Spukc

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Uuuh this is a metroid thing. Been in the games for always.. This must be annoying to newcomers i guess.
Not sure what to say..
 
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Robb

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I got stuck at one point early on mainly because I didn’t understand which blocks to destroy, but I managed to figure it out fairly quickly. The game does a great job nudging you in the right direction imo. Haven’t had a similar problem since then and I’m close to finishing the game now.

I can understand where he’s coming from, but it’s hardly a big issue at all imo. If every breakable block in the game had cracks in it it’d make exploring kinda boring since it’d be super obvious exactly where everything is and how to get there. I think it ads a lot the the game and the exploration, you just have to get used to it.
 
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NoobleBear

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It would be helpful if there was some slight visual indication... like maybe crumbling rocks or something. This is definitely a nod to it's oldschool roots tho so I would argue that because it's metroid it DOES get a pass... weird shit like this is in it's DNA.
 

Batiman

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I’m not sure how I feel about this. I see both points. But man does he not know how to aim?