• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

David Jaffe to Phil Spencer: 'You suck...... get some therapy.'

Shmunter

Member
Not to mention what this means for Gamepass which isnt just their bread and butter, but also their main target for their exec bonuses. Didnt they say they missed target last year despite growing by 37% last year. So what was their target 50%? How do you increase Gamepass by 50% in 2022 without any day one exclusives? I mean they had flight sim on consoles, psychonauts, forza horizon and halo last year and failed to hit gamepass milestones. What happens in a year when they have no day one exclusives?
It’s going to be Netflix 2.0 ++

Media noticing…

 
Last edited:
Look here dude. Xbox had starfield and redfall locked down on 2022.
The game state didnt meet the release window for that year, so they delayed it. what more do you want?

Do you want to bash xbox for releasing starfield and redfall with those issues? Because I guarantee you kids would be screaming at xbox nonstop for releasing the game with that state.

There is no pleasing to you guys other than whining like todlers, whenever issues like this happens.

You guys were the same people who were bashing xbox for that halo infinite graphics.
If they were "locked down", then they'd be releasing this year.
You have been so wildly over-defensive about this topic since the delay was announced. Do you not see that you're the most upset person on the entire forum about this delay? The deflection is wild to watch.
 

kingfey

Banned
If they were "locked down", then they'd be releasing this year.
You have been so wildly over-defensive about this topic since the delay was announced. Do you not see that you're the most upset person on the entire forum about this delay? The deflection is wild to watch.
How do you see my post as being upset?

There is no wining for this matter in either scenario.

Scenario 1: xbox releases these 2 games, and there are game changing bugs. People will get outraged, and call for Phil spencer head.

Scenario 2: xbox/Bethesda delays these 2 games and people call for Phil Spencer's head. Because the game wasn't released this year, and they don't know how to manage their studio's.

There is no winning over people with either option.

That is the reality. But People here consider this as coping or over defensive.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
How do you see my post as being upset?

There is no wining for this matter in either scenario.

Scenario 1: xbox releases these 2 games, and there are game changing bugs. People will get outraged, and call for Phil spencer head.

Scenario 2: xbox/Bethesda delays these 2 games and people call for Phil Spencer's head. Because the game wasn't released this year, and they don't know how to manage their studio's.

There is no winning over people with either option.

That is the reality. But People here consider this as coping or over defensive.
There is winning, because those aren’t the only two options - why would you think that?
 

kingfey

Banned
There is winning, because those aren’t the only two options - why would you think that?
Those are the only option. Release those games, and make 2022 release games big. But in the process, you got criticised in the media by the quality of those 2 games.
Delay it, while suffering less release games for this year. In the process you save the quality for these 2 games. But you will get the perk of people still screaming at you.

That is how gamers behave.

Cdpr devs got death threats for delaying cyberpunk2077.
 

Jaybe

Member
Not to mention what this means for Gamepass which isnt just their bread and butter, but also their main target for their exec bonuses. Didnt they say they missed target last year despite growing by 37% last year. So what was their target 50%? How do you increase Gamepass by 50% in 2022 without any day one exclusives? I mean they had flight sim on consoles, psychonauts, forza horizon and halo last year and failed to hit gamepass milestones. What happens in a year when they have no day one exclusives?
Yes, a big hit to potential subscriber growth. I’m sure locking in the most anticipated release this gen to their platform via acquisition was done with the expectation of Starfield coming out by the end of this year. I thought come hell or high water they were going to release it. Not sure how they can plug that hole. Oh and the target growth last year was 48% :) I think it’s a slim chance but part of me thinks someone at MSFT has at least run the numbers on making Starfield exclusive to Game Pass to maximize subscription growth even at the expense of game sales.
 

kingfey

Banned
Another snoozer 343 campaign, lack of maps, laughable progression system, slow support from the dev... these are "terrible" things about Halo Infinite.
But hey, grappling hook mechanics are on point!
You are talking about the MP mode.

Maybe pay attention to the SP mode. People enjoyed that mode.

343i gets shit on for the MP mode. And people pretend that SP mode doesn't exist.
 

Shmunter

Member
Those are the only option. Release those games, and make 2022 release games big. But in the process, you got criticised in the media by the quality of those 2 games.
Delay it, while suffering less release games for this year. In the process you save the quality for these 2 games. But you will get the perk of people still screaming at you.

That is how gamers behave.

Cdpr devs got death threats for delaying cyberpunk2077.
Heave you never heard of releasing “on time, on budget”. This combined with quality happens with proper management oversight.
 

kingfey

Banned
Heave you never heard of releasing “on time, on budget”. This combined with quality happens with proper management oversight.
Anything can happen in gaming world. Nothing is perfect.
You can have budget and on time release schedule, but 1 fuck up is enough to ruin your game.
 

Shmunter

Member
Anything can happen in gaming world. Nothing is perfect.
You can have budget and on time release schedule, but 1 fuck up is enough to ruin your game.
A pattern is the issue. You do not overlook these things, not now not ever - at some point questions need to be raised - why?

Not delivering for this year in particular after the money invested, it needs to come back on where the buck stops.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
A pattern is the issue. You do not overlook these things, not now not ever - at some point questions need to be raised - why?

Not delivering for this year in particular after the money invested, it needs to come back on where the buck stops.
A: Bethesda purchase was 2020. Sony made a deal for 2 timed exclusive. The impact of pandemic also affected their 2 games, which was slated for 2022.

B: MS other studio purchases had games released in 2019 or last year (Psyconauts 2 and FH5). There is nothing they could do, to make those studio work faster.

C: What you are suggesting is CRUNCH. If MS/Xbox do that, gamers and gaming journalists would crucify them for that.

2022 is just unfortunate year for them. They got the end stck by cross fire x. Stalker 2 was delayed, which messed up their april release. and the rest is history.

If you cant see it that way, then I cant help you see what you want. I am not gonna sugarcoat you on this matter.
 
Guy walks into a bakery because he wants cake. The store says they don't have cake because they haven't baked any. Guy gets angry.

Some other guy walks in and says didn't you want the bakery to have more ovens? we have so many ovens.

Guy says, not really I wanted cake.

Some other guy walks in and says but ovens make cake.

Life from the eyes of an xbox fan.
Then you can go on believing they'll never make 'cake' and maybe the bakery will go out of business. Wishful thinking of a Sony fan. Odd that that bakery created the best tasting 'cakes' last year though....
Michael Jordan Shrug GIF by NBA
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Overall the Xbox division is making big acquisition plays and bolstering GamePass into a competitive product. Delays are inevitable with ambitious game releases, even more so considering the past two years of Covid. I don't think shitting on Phil Spencer is warranted at all. However, 343 needs restructuring after the botched Halo Infinite dev cycle, if that hasn't happened already.
 
Delays to games like Starfield aren’t the issue, it’s that seemingly you go years in the Xbox ecosystem without significant releases on the promises being made without seeing substantive progress. We’ll be into year three of Xbox Series class consoles without a significant next gen title releasing

This year’s showcase in June will be critical to instilling confidence in the projects that are in work, even if they still remain a year or two off.

Phil has had plenty of time to mature the studios into something reliable. You shouldn’t have these years where almost nothing of note is released
 
Last edited:
Those are the only option. Release those games, and make 2022 release games big. But in the process, you got criticised in the media by the quality of those 2 games.
Delay it, while suffering less release games for this year. In the process you save the quality for these 2 games. But you will get the perk of people still screaming at you.

That is how gamers behave.

Cdpr devs got death threats for delaying cyberpunk2077.
Third option... don't give a release date at all until you KNOW that the game will be available to launch on that date, and then (gasp) not change/delay that date.
You're acting as though simply not falsely hyping up the player base is an unrealistic scenario.
 
Last edited:
Overall the Xbox division is making big acquisition plays and bolstering GamePass into a competitive product. Delays are inevitable with ambitious game releases, even more so considering the past two years of Covid. I don't think shitting on Phil Spencer is warranted at all. However, 343 needs restructuring after the botched Halo Infinite dev cycle, if that hasn't happened already.
XboxGAF confirmed:lollipop_sunglasses:
 
Then you can go on believing they'll never make 'cake' and maybe the bakery will go out of business. Wishful thinking of a Sony fan. Odd that that bakery created the best tasting 'cakes' last year though....
Michael Jordan Shrug GIF by NBA
When the subject for the last week has been directed explicitly towards the FUTURE of Xbox, it is quite ridiculous that the conversation keeps getting dragged back to 2021 (which btw was the worst gaming release year since 2014).
...And I would argue that I enjoyed my Returnal "cake" more than anything I played on Xbox in 2021.
 
Yet CP2077 has sold 18 million copies, so disaster only the minds of video game fanatics.
Smh when 13 million of those sales were pre-orders, and it was supposed to be the biggest game ever, yeah it was a disaster. Please don't try to rewrite history into thinking that Cyberpunk was anything less than a disaster, because it absolutely was.
 

Shmunter

Member
A: Bethesda purchase was 2020. Sony made a deal for 2 timed exclusive. The impact of pandemic also affected their 2 games, which was slated for 2022.

B: MS other studio purchases had games released in 2019 or last year (Psyconauts 2 and FH5). There is nothing they could do, to make those studio work faster.

C: What you are suggesting is CRUNCH. If MS/Xbox do that, gamers and gaming journalists would crucify them for that.

2022 is just unfortunate year for them. They got the end stck by cross fire x. Stalker 2 was delayed, which messed up their april release. and the rest is history.

If you cant see it that way, then I cant help you see what you want. I am not gonna sugarcoat you on this matter.
Where is 343 in your argument, initiative with 3rd party dev support, the state of decay guys, etc…I’m forgetting stuff to list here. If you’re going to present a point, be balanced.
 
You are talking about the MP mode.

Maybe pay attention to the SP mode. People enjoyed that mode.

343i gets shit on for the MP mode. And people pretend that SP mode doesn't exist.
Literally the first thing I mention is the SP lol. Keep spinning, dude. And the campaign is bad, sorry. I have yet to see a single person praising the campaign. The open world did nothing for Halo
 
Where is 343 in your argument, initiative with 3rd party dev support, the state of decay guys, etc…I’m forgetting stuff to list here. If you’re going to present a point, be balanced.
AAAA The Initiative:lollipop_anxious_sweat: for starters,
obvious mismanagement of the studio and Perfect Dark.

Mismanagement at Rare with Everwild.

Pretty evident that problems are systematic at the leadership of XBox.
 
Last edited:

Shmunter

Member
AAAA The Initiative:lollipop_anxious_sweat: for starters,
obvious mismanagement of the studio and Perfect Dark.

Mismanagement at Rare with Everwild.

Pretty evident that problems are systematic at the leadership of XBox.
The Ori studio imploded recently too, although I’m not sure if they are actually 1st party.
 

Fitzchiv

Member
It's funny to me that people think Spencer isn't judged critically at Microsoft far more harshly than on YouTube and internet forums. He's heading up a huge organisation within one of the largest brands in the world, shareholders don't like failure..

Delays are shit, and Jaffe is right in that Spencer had the power and resource to fix certain issues - if he doesn't he'll be removed. But judging him for acting as a lighting rod for the organisation is just fucking stupid...
 

kingfey

Banned
Literally the first thing I mention is the SP lol. Keep spinning, dude. And the campaign is bad, sorry. I have yet to see a single person praising the campaign. The open world did nothing for Halo
You must be blind for all the praise the fans had for the single player campaign.
 

kingfey

Banned
Where is 343 in your argument, initiative with 3rd party dev support, the state of decay guys, etc…I’m forgetting stuff to list here. If you’re going to present a point, be balanced.
343 is shit. We have been saying that for too long.

The Initiative is newly studio. It's bound to have issues and disagreement, when you collect all top teams, without any connection. Happens in every industry.

State of Decay guys are take over issues. When a new company takes over a company, there is different in direction.

While you are at it, why don't you talk about other studios? Where is the mismanagement for turn 10, the Coalition, and all other remaining studios?

Because if they really had bad management like people are screaming, then those studios would have the same issues as other studios.

The fact there isn't, shows there is no bad mismanagement like people here claim it to be.
 

kingfey

Banned
Third option... don't give a release date at all until you KNOW that the game will be available to launch on that date, and then (gasp) not change/delay that date.
You're acting as though simply not falsely hyping up the player base is an unrealistic scenario.
3rd option, you will still delay the game, even If you don't give out the date.

The date time was wrong on their part. I am already pissed about that.
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Third option... don't give a release date at all until you KNOW that the game will be available to launch on that date, and then (gasp) not change/delay that date.
You're acting as though simply not falsely hyping up the player base is an unrealistic scenario.
Unfortunately it's the new normal. Name me one major studio/publisher who has not delayed a game in the past 2 years?
 

oldergamer

Member
Does it suck that games get delayed? Sure it does. Does that mean we get nothing this year on xbox?

We dont know for certain until the june 12 showcase. Jaffe can give his opinion (his fanboy video was garbage imo), people can take it out of context, sony fans can make all sorts of claims about Spencer, but the fucking reality is we haven't yet seen if they had any other games planned for this year!

Wait until june 12, see if there is anything to announce for fall, then go back to being console warriors.

We still don't know what ms publishing has been working on. We still don't know what half the ms studios are working on (before Bethesda was purchased). We know games targeting last year were moved out. At least wait a few weeks and see what is going on.
 
Last edited:

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Heave you never heard of releasing “on time, on budget”. This combined with quality happens with proper management oversight.
Can you give me a list of games from big hitters that launched on their original mentioned release window and then ultimately on budget due to this?

I don't think there are many big first party exclusives that don't get delayed.

Especially big games from the world's leading exclusive developers.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
We still don't know what ms publishing has been working on. We still don't know what half the ms studios are working on (before Bethesda was purchased). We know games targeting last year were moved out. At least wait a few weeks and see what is going on.
That won't satisfy their outrage.

We are in May. June-december is not here, and we wrote of this year for xbox.

I wish these people could understand that maybe, there something that will be dropped this year. And that it's better for them to reserve their judgment after this showcase.

But if you say that, you will get tye typical respond of wait e3.
 
A lot of this has to do with a zero crunch culture. Crunch is how games get finished unfortunately.
Really? Crunch causes way more issues then not doing crunch, thats why half the games out at the moment are bugged to fuck, every rumour thats been out about about every ms first party studio has been about leadership, people who dont have a clue, rare, announced a new ip, director of the game left because they have no idea what there making, forza horizon dev csnt even programme an rpg game, perfect dark reboot in dev hell for slow development because of leadership problems, again 343 had the same until staten joined, i e3xpeft the coalition to be the same since fergusson left for blizzard, everyone else that was once third party are totally fine, phil needs to be a dick and crack on management, give them pressure so that something can actually be done
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Really? Crunch causes way more issues then not doing crunch, thats why half the games out at the moment are bugged to fuck, every rumour thats been out about about every ms first party studio has been about leadership, people who dont have a clue, rare, announced a new ip, director of the game left because they have no idea what there making, forza horizon dev csnt even programme an rpg game, perfect dark reboot in dev hell for slow development because of leadership problems, again 343 had the same until staten joined, i e3xpeft the coalition to be the same since fergusson left for blizzard, everyone else that was once third party are totally fine, phil needs to be a dick and crack on management, give them pressure so that something can actually be done
I'm not saying studio management isn't a problem (Hi Bonnie Ross), but as far as these particular delays and delays across the industry, I think it has had a bigger impact than Covid.
 

Shmunter

Member
Can you give me a list of games from big hitters that launched on their original mentioned release window and then ultimately on budget due to this?

I don't think there are many big first party exclusives that don't get delayed.

Especially big games from the world's leading exclusive developers.
You don’t need a list when majority of titles launch on a date once it has been publicised. The implication here you are making is that there is nothing to see here. For a publisher and more so a platform holder to have nothing new added to the portfolio for extended periods is the norm?

Can you imagine investor calls where the company reports to have missed 100% of the targets…repeatedly. This is the crux off it.
 
Last edited:

Blayzedblue

Neo Member
Phil is too nice a guy to manage the studios. Jaffe doesn’t have any class, but he’s correct. Theres been too many cancellations, delays and games in limbo the past decade with Phil in charge. Fans need to take off their rose tinted glasses, and Phil should be replaced.
 

Roberts

Member
Literally the first thing I mention is the SP lol. Keep spinning, dude. And the campaign is bad, sorry. I have yet to see a single person praising the campaign. The open world did nothing for Halo

Ehm, I will be the first one then (which is bullshit, because most people who actually played it, enjoyed the game). HI single player is great. Probably one of the more effective open world designs, because instead of rushing through the main story missions, the game motivated me to get lost in the world, explore. Not cluttered and well designed. It really felt like my actions matter.

And MP is great too. The game still has the best gunplay and that is all that matters.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Ehm, I will be the first one then (which is bullshit, because most people who actually played it, enjoyed the game). HI single player is great. Probably one of the more effective open world designs, because instead of rushing through the main story missions, the game motivated me to get lost in the world, explore. Not cluttered and well designed. It really felt like my actions matter.

And MP is great too. The game still has the best gunplay and that is all that matters.
Yeah the campaign’s issues were mostly in the corridor-style levels, the open world parts were fresh and gave more freedom to the player. Having to scout an enemy base and planning an approach, choosing which weapons/vehicle to request for that was a blast.

There’s just too much hyperbole about Halo’s campaign those days.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Guy walks into a bakery because he wants cake. The store says they don't have cake because they haven't baked any. Guy gets angry.

Some other guy walks in and says didn't you want the bakery to have more ovens? we have so many ovens.

Guy says, not really I wanted cake.

Some other guy walks in and says but ovens make cake.

Life from the eyes of an xbox fan.


Billy Madison Shut Up GIF
 

BeardGawd

Banned
Unfortunately it's the new normal. Name me one major studio/publisher who has not delayed a game in the past 2 years?
Honestly I feel like these dates are more for the studios than the public. It's a psychological thing but when you're working on something and it has a set public deadline it tends to make you work harder knowing the end is near. These games often get delayed but these same games would have taken even longer than the final release date if the initial release date hadn't been set to get a sense of urgency from developers.
 
Another snoozer 343 campaign, lack of maps, laughable progression system, slow support from the dev... these are "terrible" things about Halo Infinite.
But hey, grappling hook mechanics are on point!
The game was the best playing FPS I've tried in a long time. It felt really damn good to fling around the world and terrorize the covenant.

I don't like this revisionist history. The game was praised at launch, and knowing 343, it's only going to get better.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Phil is too nice a guy to manage the studios. Jaffe doesn’t have any class, but he’s correct. Theres been too many cancellations, delays and games in limbo the past decade with Phil in charge. Fans need to take off their rose tinted glasses, and Phil should be replaced.

But what can he do?

Bethesda is known to be a slow developer and their last games have been trash. They can't afford to deliver another Fallout 76. Phil can persuade them to release sooner, but then you likely get another broken product out in the wild. In which turn he will be shat on as well.

343 has always been shit. The studio clearly needs a shake up. They didn't release Infinite in time and when they did, its still far from feature complete. But I don't know if you can blame that on Phil Spencer. MS should've purchased Bungie way back, but Bungie didn't want to work on any more Halo since.. well, Destiny is so much different lol.

I do think Zenimax was a bargain, it was only twice what Sony paid for Bungie and with it you get ID, Tango, Bethesda, Machinegames etc and a goldmine of IP. If Phil is responsible for this acquisition, he did a good job.
 
When the subject for the last week has been directed explicitly towards the FUTURE of Xbox, it is quite ridiculous that the conversation keeps getting dragged back to 2021 (which btw was the worst gaming release year since 2014).
...And I would argue that I enjoyed my Returnal "cake" more than anything I played on Xbox in 2021.
Last year the same arguments were made about why Xbox had no games and when would MS drop out of the console business. By the end of the year the questions were answered. It was just LAST YEAR.

Now the cycle has repeated; so many complaints and the showcase is next month. Last year's showcase showed games for the first time that ended up being game of the year by some publications. I'm willing to at least see this year's showcase has and what is released before declaring MS finished.

Glad you liked Returnal. It's existence doesn't change the fact MS was publisher of year in 2021. Maybe Sony will win this year. We'll see.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Jaffe's comments are utterly tasteless and if anyone needs therapy it's him for anger management. Throwing a temper tantrum because games got delayed. I must have missed where screeched how Jim Ryan sucks and recommended therapy for him since HFW, GT7 and GoW:R were all delayed to this year.

I am super disappointed that Starfield isn't coming until next year. Bethesda's huge WRPGs and Halo are my very favorite games ever. I see a lot of the Green Rats pinning a lot of hope on the June 12th showcase. I would say don't set your expectations so high that you'll end up being disappointed a 2nd time. If you're a big fan of racing games Forza MS might salvage this year for you. I'm not vaguely interested in Forza MS so for me the only thing that will help somewhat is if they announce Halo Infinite to have a big campaign expansion.

We see the Blue Snakes are thrilled with this news. They're having a party; celebrating, concern trolling and condemning Phil and Xbox across numerous threads even though most of them don't have an Xbox, Game Pass or even play any Xbox games. We still don't have a release date for GoW. I predict the Green Rats returning the favor should it get pushed to next year.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom