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[Team Andromeda]

Really Daytona USA and Ridge Racer never belonged in the same sentence. Daytona USA was always legions ahead of RR in single and multi-play. Ridge Racer never really matched up to Daytona. Had Daytona USA had a perfect port on Saturn we might be talking about Sega Consoles instead of Sony consoles. Daytona commanded that much respect back in the Arcades. Even the Dreamcast port of Daytona wasn't perfect. Sony however, was smart and got a almost perfect port of RR and Tekken and history was forever changed/made.

Tekken was running on PS hardware in the Arcade so it was also going to get a near-perfect port, the same went for ST-V Saturn ports. I agree with you over the rushed Daytona USA, but even when SEGA did deliver a port SEGA Rally that was even better than RR on the PS it made no diff. The issue for SEGA was the bone heads at SEGA America, messing up the 32Bit Sonic and putting all their eggs inthe 32X basket with the thinking price would beat the Saturn, PS and N64.

I always found it silly why SEGA looked to bring Rad Mobile to the Saturn early in and not OutRunners

 

[Alexios]

People trashing Saturn for not achieving Model 2 quality are just being stupid. Ridge Racer was about as downgraded as Sega Rally yet it was originally a much lower end arcade game. Sure, it played at a more stable 30fps vs Daytona's uneven framerate but the core games were leagues apart so that was natural, it didn't prove anything about the Saturn was substantially worse than the PlayStation (which only really proved itself more capable way later with AAA games Saturn didn't get to have much of, earlier on even multiplatform games not tuned to its strengths only performed a little worse on Saturn, often with some better aspects at that, from Tomb Raider to Resident Evil and the first couple of Wipeout games, not to mention its treasure trove of great 3D exclusives and 2D titles that whether exclusive or not were better on it) and it was still a faithful version of the hottest arcade game in your home which was mind blowing in reality (vs the fantasy of PlayStation being able to do Model 2 games as good as it did inferior games).

I'd say Ridge Racer is a port of similar quality to the also trashed Virtua Fighter (not Remix or 2, the former has subtantially better textures than the arcade, closer to 2 even, while the latter has downgrades - duh - but retains the 60fps that Ridge Racer only got with that RR Type 4 bonus disc tech demo, which still had other downgrades and only pit one car against you etc.) what with having halved fps, downgraded visuals but the same arcade gameplay (with less opponents for RR but oh well). You just traded some glitchy disappearing polygons of one for the PlayStation's trademark texture and polygon warping. Although I guess without counting the state of the original game but just the final results then RR resembles VF Remix more than the vanilla game due to using texture mapping etc. more. Still, vanilla VF is more faithful.

For actual racers then Drift King '97 is very close visually, with its own twists like only one rival but random traffic on top, three time of day changes triggering in one of the tracks every time you go through a certain tunnel, awesome and skill based drifting that's initiated by a button but then feels a bit like Sega Rally's sliding as it's easy to miscalculate, lose control and crash, etc.


Why does every Sega related thread or even random game threads like Tomb Raider LTTPs have to devolve to people trying to pass Saturn/DC bs as facts?

Even the Dreamcast port of Daytona wasn't perfect.

It's not a port and is basically perfect for what it is, brilliant visuals, draw distance, smooth framerate, etc. It just needs some subjective/personal tinkering for the gamepad controls to feel right and is not as popular (which 2 isn't either vs the 1st) as it was confined to DC.


The game looks nicer in 480p and proper colors, this looks washed out cos it's PAL 60 in S-Video or whatever causes capture issues (funnily enough similar to real Model 2 Daytona USA captures looking washed out), but it's rare good player full championship footage so will do.

 

[Wulfer]

Yeah, people trashing Saturn for not achieving Model 2 quality are just being silly given the gulf in capabilities. Ridge Racer was about as downgraded as Sega Rally yet it was originally a much lower end arcade game. Sure, it played at a more stable 30fps vs Daytona's uneven framerate but the core games were leagues apart so that was natural, it didn't prove anything about the Saturn was substantially worse than the PlayStation (which only really proved itself more capable way later with AAA games Saturn didn't get to have much of, earlier on even multiplatform games not tuned to its strengths only performed a little worse on Saturn, often with some better aspects at that, from Tomb Raider to Resident Evil and the first couple of Wipeout games, not to mention its treasure trove of great 3D exclusives and 2D titles that whether exclusive or not were better on it) and it was still a faithful version of the hottest arcade game in your home which was mind blowing in reality (vs the fantasy of PlayStation being able to do Model 2 games as good as it did the far inferior arcade games). I'd say Ridge Racer is a port of similar quality to the also trashed Virtua Fighter (not Remix or 2, the former has subtantially better textures than the arcade, closer to 2 even, while the latter has downgrades - duh - but retains the 60fps that Ridge Racer only got with that RR Type 4 bonus disc tech demo, which still had other downgrades and only pit one car against you etc.) what with having halved fps, downgraded visuals but the same arcade gameplay (with less opponents for RR but oh well). You just traded some glitchy disappearing polygons of one for the PlayStation's trademark texture and polygon warping. Although I guess without counting the state of the original game but just the final results then RR resembles VF Remix more than the vanilla game due to using texture mapping etc. more. Anyway, why does every Sega related thread or even random game threads like Tomb Raider LTTPs have to devolve to people trying to pass Saturn or Dreamcast bs as facts?

It's not a port and is basically perfect for what it is, brilliant visuals, draw distance, smooth framerate, etc. It just needs some subjective/personal tinkering for the gamepad controls to feel right and is not as popular (which 2 isn't either vs the 1st) since it was confined to this one home platform.


The game looks nicer in 480p and proper colors, this looks washed out cos it's PAL 60 in S-Video or whatever causes capture issues (funnily enough similar to some real Model 2 Daytona USA captures also being washed out), but it's rare good player full championship footage so it will have to do.

I don't need a lesson on a perfect port. I bought Daytona 4 times including importing versions from Japan. The game never got to a perfect port of the arcade even when you tinkered with the settings. Was Daytona a good game for the time sure, was it perfect no way. Sega had a hard time with perfect ports back then. I'd say they got Sega Rally and Virtua Cop right but, the hardware from home just couldn't do the job. Design choices is what killed Sega's arcade to home ports. Back then Sega thought the Arcades would live forever and they didn't want the home port to take away from the Arcade income (another poor choice from Sega). I even have the rare Sega link version of Daytona. Imported the Dreamcast version that came 8-12 months before the American release. None of them matched up to the arcade releases or feel of the original Saturn release. All of them required some handling changes inside the control settings to get closer to the original arcade release (poor choice).

 

[Alexios]

I don't need a lesson on a perfect port. I bought Daytona 4 times including importing versions from Japan. The game never got to a perfect port of the arcade even when you tinkered with the settings.

Seems you do need a lesson as, again, the Dreamcast game is not a port. It's a Daytona USA game. Neither 1, nor 2. Dreamcast could handle Model 2 just fine as Dynamite Cop! shows, that wasn't the point of the Daytona game. Maybe you'd like it more if it was, but it wasn't. An ancient game from even more ancient arcade hardware wouldn't have impressed anyone else (nor was it long enough after that to consider it a retro release like on PSN/XBLA). At least Dynamite Cop! was a 1998 game and probably the most advanced on Model 2 and VF3 while old was from far superior hardware so made more sense.

I didn't say anything about the Saturn versions in regards to your post, the differences are well known and documented. The first release plays faithfully but is worse technically (again, it makes sense as Model 2 was a beast beyond the capabilities of any home console of that era) and the others utilize the Sega Rally engine which results in somewhat nicer visuals and performance, still not comparable to the arcade game but comparable to other well regarded console games and ports though the amount of opponents makes it harder, but with very different gameplay no matter how they tried to tweak it.

None of that is Sega doing badly or the Saturn sucking, arcade faithful Daytona was impossible at home for any console of the era. Period. Refer back to my first comment if you think otherwise.

 

[Wulfer]

Seems you do need a lesson as, again, the Dreamcast game is not a port. It's a Daytona USA game. Neither 1, nor 2. Dreamcast could handle Model 2 just fine as Dynamite Cop! shows, that wasn't the point of the Daytona game. Maybe you'd like it more if it was, but it wasn't. An ancient game from even more ancient arcade hardware wouldn't have impressed anyone else (nor was it long enough after that to consider it a retro release like on PSN/XBLA). At least Dynamite Cop! was a 1998 game and probably the most advanced on Model 2 and VF3 while old was from far superior hardware.

Yes, but, even a modified release could have gotten the controls right at least once. The original Saturn ver. was a easy to control game but, the graphics killed it. The CCE ver. got the graphics right but, killed the controls. The Sega Link version fixed some of the control issues but, never got a real true release. The DC import release modified yes not a port messed up the controls again. The final release in the USA finally dialed the controls in where you could at least get close but, nothing was by default. These failures where the down fall of Daytona USA home release not the game. After these releases Sega didn't care anymore and by then DC was done. I'd say the best release of Daytona USA ended up on the XBox with online play but, by then no one cared anymore. So, I'm actually wrong I bought Daytona USA 5 times in 3 generations. Thank God the Xbox release was a 360 release and was made BC so, anyone can still enjoy even today. I still cue that version up on my Series X even today.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Speaking of Ridge Racer, how do you play it? Daytona's all about the power slide, but I could never figure out if I was supposed to be sliding in Ridge Racer or going for the apex. Would love some insight.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Seems you do need a lesson as, again, the Dreamcast game is not a port. It's a Daytona USA game. Neither 1, nor 2. Dreamcast could handle Model 2 just fine as Dynamite Cop! shows, that wasn't the point of the Daytona game. Maybe you'd like it more if it was, but it wasn't. An ancient game from even more ancient arcade hardware wouldn't have impressed anyone else (nor was it long enough after that to consider it a retro release like on PSN/XBLA). At least Dynamite Cop! was a 1998 game and probably the most advanced on Model 2 and VF3 while old was from far superior hardware.

The trouble was the Model 2 and Saturn's AM#2 Daytona had better AI. I was expecting the game to play like the Model 2 game exactly and it didn't the AI didn't feel right . I still enjoyed it for what it was and loved the online side of things. Though I could only join matches at like 2 AM Saturday mornings and not suffer lag playing the USA version over here in the UK

 

[VGEsoterica]

my problem here is i cant access it because the screen changes too fast , it blinks 2 times then shows cancelled network board not present , any other way to access it ?

Let me look into it

 

[Wulfer]

I have a question will Supermodel 3 emu work with Retroarch for Series X?

 

[U n i o n 0015]

you were right , i dint know we had to merge them , anyway i got it to work , it just weird that daytona 2 wont work it says network board not present

Assuming a vanilla install of Supermodel, you need to press the 8 key on your keyboard to enter the Service menu. Don't think it matters WHEN you press it, it should override and take you to the service menu. You use the 7 key to move up and down the service menu and 8 to make confirmations. You'll go the Game Assignments list item to change the cabinet type of the game.

(You can check what keys are assigned to the Service menu by going to /Supermodel/Config/supermodel.ini)

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I have a question will Supermodel 3 emu work with Retroarch for Series X?

No, Retroarch (libretro) needs to add that core to their library, which I don't think they have.

 

[VeganElduderino]

Assuming a vanilla install of Supermodel, you need to press the 8 key on your keyboard to enter the Service menu. Don't think it matters WHEN you press it, it should override and take you to the service menu. You use the 7 key to move up and down the service menu and 8 to make confirmations. You'll go the Game Assignments list item to change the cabinet type of the game.

(You can check what keys are assigned to the Service menu by going to /Supermodel/Config/supermodel.ini)

Thanks ! I'll try that out

 

[64bitmodels]

Not only that, but they messed up the rerelease on Saturn as well. According to wikipedia, there was a 32x port in development at one poin

The port never could have gone well not with the saturn being that bad at 3d

 

[Scotty W]

The port never could have gone well not with the saturn being that bad at 3d

If I understand your sentence properly:

From what I understand, the first port had the gameplay pretty close to the arcade but had botched graphics, while the second port has mostly fixed graphics but botched gameplay. If they had planned the Saturn to be 3D from the start and hadn’t rushed the system and game, perhaps everything could have been different.

I have the first version and honestly it is not that fun. I need to compare with the arcade, but the controls don’t quite feel right, which is strange bc Sega Rally has flawless controls.

 

[RetroAV]

Tekken was running on PS hardware in the Arcade so it was also going to get a near-perfect port, the same went for ST-V Saturn ports. I agree with you over the rushed Daytona USA, but even when SEGA did deliver a port SEGA Rally that was even better than RR on the PS it made no diff. The issue for SEGA was the bone heads at SEGA America, messing up the 32Bit Sonic and putting all their eggs inthe 32X basket with the thinking price would beat the Saturn, PS and N64.

I always found it silly why SEGA looked to bring Rad Mobile to the Saturn early in and not OutRunners

All of Sega made mistakes in those days! I can understand Sega of Japan wanting to move on to Saturn seeing how the Mega Drive was practically dead in the east, but I can also understand Sega of America NOT wanting to move on because the Genesis still had momentum in the west. Also, Sega of America was concerned with the pricing of Saturn which is why the 32X was born!

The 32X was sort of like a compromise between SoA & SoJ. I believe the hope was that the 32X would buy SoA enough time until they'd be able to release Saturn in America at a more market-friendly price with a better lineup of games. But then Sony changed all that with PS1 and 32X support was scrapped. And as far as Sega of America messing up 32-bit Sonic goes, they KNEW that Saturn needed Sonic, but Sega of Japan didn't want to make it so you can blame them as well.

 

[VGEsoterica]

All of Sega made mistakes in those days! I can understand Sega of Japan wanting to move on to Saturn seeing how the Mega Drive was practically dead in the east, but I can also understand Sega of America NOT wanting to move on because the Genesis still had momentum in the west. Also, Sega of America was concerned with the pricing of Saturn which is why the 32X was born!

The 32X was sort of like a compromise between SoA & SoJ. I believe the hope was that the 32X would buy SoA enough time until they'd be able to release Saturn in America at a more market-friendly price with a better lineup of games. But then Sony changed all that with PS1 and 32X support was scrapped. And as far as Sega of America messing up 32-bit Sonic goes, they KNEW that Saturn needed Sonic, but Sega of Japan didn't want to make it so you can blame them as well.

the problem is Sega STILL makes mistakes in 2023 lol

 

[RetroAV]

the problem is Sega STILL makes mistakes in 2023 lol

Yes, I was simply pushing back in terms of putting ALL the blame on Sega of America.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Yes, I was simply pushing back in terms of putting ALL the blame on Sega of America.

Ill still never understand why a company fought itself over all this. Sega of Japan and Sega of America basically treated each other as rivals ala Sony and Microsoft

 

[coffinbirth]

Let me look into it

Assuming a vanilla install of Supermodel, you need to press the 8 key on your keyboard to enter the Service menu. Don't think it matters WHEN you press it, it should override and take you to the service menu. You use the 7 key to move up and down the service menu and 8 to make confirmations. You'll go the Game Assignments list item to change the cabinet type of the game.

(You can check what keys are assigned to the Service menu by going to /Supermodel/Config/supermodel.ini)

I think the problem is that by default, 6 is the menu, and 5 changes the option. I didn't change these values at all, so what works for me ootb is HOLD the 6 key, then use 5 to navigate to the option you want and tap 6 again to select it. I tried to map this to the DualSense trackpad, but it wouldn't do both inputs. Also worth pointing out to those having issues mapping controls, for me anyways, you have to go through ALL the configs(you can skip any by hitting down arrow)and it closes itself. Hitting Q to save didn't work for me, personally, but that little trick did.

Also, for those having scaling issues with widescreen and higher resolutions, the ONLY thing that worked for me was;
Right click on supermodel.exe
go to properties/compatibility/change high DPI settings
check the box that overrides DPI scaling, select "application" and click ok.
This was for 3840x2160, but should work for 1080 as well.
I have Fullscreen and Widescreen boxes checked.


For me Daytona USA 2 is the standout of the Model 3 racers. I preferred Sega Rally on Saturn, but Sega Rally 2, while quite the looker, never FELT nearly as good as the original to me. The Model 3 version sadly doesn't change this opinion.

 

[VGEsoterica]

I think the problem is that by default, 6 is the menu, and 5 changes the option. I didn't change these values at all, so what works for me ootb is HOLD the 6 key, then use 5 to navigate to the option you want and tap 6 again to select it. I tried to map this to the DualSense trackpad, but it wouldn't do both inputs. Also worth pointing out to those having issues mapping controls, for me anyways, you have to go through ALL the configs(you can skip any by hitting down arrow)and it closes itself. Hitting Q to save didn't work for me, personally, but that little trick did.

Also, for those having scaling issues with widescreen and higher resolutions, the ONLY thing that worked for me was;
Right click on supermodel.exe
go to properties/compatibility/change high DPI settings
check the box that overrides DPI scaling, select "application" and click ok.
This was for 3840x2160, but should work for 1080 as well.
I have Fullscreen and Widescreen boxes checked.


For me Daytona USA 2 is the standout of the Model 3 racers. I preferred Sega Rally on Saturn, but Sega Rally 2, while quite the looker, never FELT nearly as good as the original to me. The Model 3 version sadly doesn't change this opinion.

It can be tricky to initially set up but once you get it locked down it’s click and play

 

[nkarafo]

Had Daytona USA had a perfect port on Saturn we might be talking about Sega Consoles instead of Sony consoles.

That would never happen though.

Even the 30fps improved championship edition didn't look as good as the Ridge Racer port the Playstation got.

In the arcades sure, Daytona looks better. But Ridge Racer looks better when it's downscaled for these consoles.

 

[UnNamed]

but even when SEGA did deliver a port SEGA Rally that was even better than RR on the PS.

Agree on Outrunners, but Sega Rally wasn't exceptional in terms of polygons and framerate, SEGA did a (way)better job with VF2. SR was an hit for its gameplay, certainly not for its graphics, that were well received at the time because of the Daytona debacle, not bacause their merits.

I'd say Ridge Racer is a port of similar quality to the also trashed Virtua Fighter

Sega had Virtua Fighter Remix basically ready for the launch of the Saturn in Japan, but they released the vanilla instead, it's not our fault if they were fucking stupid. A VFR vs RR would have given another tone to the console war and a better receiving on Sega.

Drift King has the same aesthetic of RR, but not the same amount of polygons.
Daytona 2001, loved... but I always hated they replaced the "real cars" from the original with the Hot Wheels.

 

[VeganElduderino]

Assuming a vanilla install of Supermodel, you need to press the 8 key on your keyboard to enter the Service menu. Don't think it matters WHEN you press it, it should override and take you to the service menu. You use the 7 key to move up and down the service menu and 8 to make confirmations. You'll go the Game Assignments list item to change the cabinet type of the game.

(You can check what keys are assigned to the Service menu by going to /Supermodel/Config/supermodel.ini)

i just tried it , i have 2 versions of Daytona 2 Jap and Australia , i switched it on both and it still doesn't work

 

[U n i o n 0015]

i just tried it , i have 2 versions of Daytona 2 Jap and Australia , i switched it on both and it still doesn't work

Japan will work, but make sure that the Link ID is set to Single. Screenshot of my setup:

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Ill still never understand why a company fought itself over all this. Sega of Japan and Sega of America basically treated each other as rivals ala Sony and Microsoft

The more stuff that comes out about the relationship between SoJ and SoA, the less sympathy I have for the company as whole. So many insane business decisions because the two organizations couldn't work together.

 

[coffinbirth]

It can be tricky to initially set up but once you get it locked down it’s click and play

It's not too bad, but it has it's quirks. That post was just to help others with some of the specifics. The scaling thing had me scratching my head for a good 15 minutes.

 

[VeganElduderino]

Japan will work, but make sure that the Link ID is set to Single. Screenshot of my setup:

awesome ! it works thanks

 

[Patrick S.]

Speaking of Ridge Racer, how do you play it? Daytona's all about the power slide, but I could never figure out if I was supposed to be sliding in Ridge Racer or going for the apex. Would love some insight.

There are cars that you need to drift, because they don’t turn, like the Testarossa clone, and cars that turn well and don’t need to be drifted, but are slower. That was actually a super nice quality of the game; the cars handled very differently and there are cars for every preference. Nothing like the white angel car in RR Revolution, though! Man, those were awesome games. And the music…… chef kiss

 

[VeganElduderino]

Japan will work, but make sure that the Link ID is set to Single. Screenshot of my setup:

do you use Launchbox with it ?

 

[Frayed Ends of Sanity]

Never got the chance to play Daytona 2. Was lucky that just until a few years ago. There was an arcade around me that had the original Daytona with 8 players. So sad when they replaced it with virtual bowling. At least they still have Outrun 2 machines.

 

[SaintALia]

I'm guessing there are no proper ports of these games to PC or consoles. But is there some kind of subscription arcade service to play them? Or maybe you buy packs of coins and play them if you don't want a subscription?

I guess I could always emulate, but if possible, I'd rather just pay for a sub and play a bunch of native arcade ports that add more titles over time or perhaps add new features.

Seems to be a bunch of arcade games out there just languishing and every once in a while someone throws them into a pack to sell, but I don't feel like I want to actually own arcade games, but maybe that's just me.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

do you use Launchbox with it ?

I use a launcher called Playnite. I basically create an action that launches the supermodel.exe with a bunch of command line parameters that set the resolution, input method and such. Pic:

There are cars that you need to drift, because they don’t turn, like the Testarossa clone, and cars that turn well and don’t need to be drifted, but are slower. That was actually a super nice quality of the game; the cars handled very differently and there are cars for every preference. Nothing like the white angel car in RR Revolution, though! Man, those were awesome games. And the music…… chef kiss

Oh, interesting! I'll have to fire Ridge Racer up again with this in mind.

 

[Mobilemofo]

I'd take ridge Racer over Daytona. 2 was, imo, bland.

 

[VeganElduderino]

I'd take ridge Racer over Daytona. 2 was, imo, bland.

any ways to play Ridge racer arcade edition ?

 

[VeganElduderino]

I use a launcher called Playnite. I basically create an action that launches the supermodel.exe with a bunch of command line parameters that set the resolution, input method and such. Pic:

Oh, interesting! I'll have to fire Ridge Racer up again with this in mind.

ah cool! because when i start it in launchbox the resolution sucks , maybe im doing something wrong

 

[Team Andromeda]

Agree on Outrunners, but Sega Rally wasn't exceptional in terms of polygons and framerate, SEGA did a (way)better job with VF2. SR was an hit for its gameplay, certainly not for its graphics, that were well received at the time because of the Daytona debacle, not bacause their merits.


Sega had Virtua Fighter Remix basically ready for the launch of the Saturn in Japan, but they released the vanilla instead, it's not our fault if they were fucking stupid. A VFR vs RR would have given another tone to the console war and a better receiving on Sega.

Drift King has the same aesthetic of RR, but not the same amount of polygons.
Daytona 2001, loved... but I always hated they replaced the "real cars" from the original with the Hot Wheels.

SEGA did not have VF remix ready for the ST-V board ready until 1995, so how you can say they had VF Remix ready for Saturn is beyond me.
Sega Rally looked amazing at the time, had the best physics one had ever seen used on a car and was a super close port of an even more powerful Model 2B board


The blame lies with SEGA America which was in a state of panic and looked to rush out the Saturn in the West. It thought the 32X was clean up and then when the 2nd wave of games and hardware sales were crap, it had nothing left. Far better if Sega America still went early, but looked for Aug 95 when games like VF Remix, Bug and Clockwork Knight 2 were also ready to come online

All in all if not the for 32X and SEGA America also screwing up Sonic Extreme. SEGA would have been in a far better position to take the fight more to Nintendo and should have beaten the N64

 

[Patrick S.]

any ways to play Ridge racer arcade edition ?

I remember playing Rave Racer on an emulator a few years ago. Think it was called Vivanonno or something like that?

 

[SkylineRKR]

I remember playing Rave Racer on an emulator a few years ago. Think it was called Vivanonno or something like that?

Yeah but its not the same. Its hardware accellerated I think.

I played Rave in the summer, actual cabinet. Its an awesome racing and probably my fave of the Ridge games. The drifting is inbetween classic Ridge and modern Ridge (which was too easy). It takes a bit of skill.

I think Ridge works on MAME? Rave perhaps too. They were never really glitch free but idk now. Ridge 2 was just Ridge with rear mirror and some adjustments I think.

 

[UnNamed]

SEGA did not have VF remix ready for the ST-V board ready until 1995, so how you can say they had VF Remix ready for Saturn is beyond me.

I misremembered this thing, they had VFR ready for the Saturn's launch in US.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Yeah VFR ready for US launch could be true, the game came out soon after launch and in Japan even in July already. There is basically no text in that game or anything. VFR would certainly help a bit, it was a good looking game at the time. And Japan wasn't really the problem for Saturn, the west needed a better showcase game than original VF1.

But ofcourse, they would also need a better Daytona USA, a lower price and generally a better everything to stand a chance. Sega Rally showed that Saturn was capable of more, rather soon after launch. VF2 too ofcourse. But they could release VF2 later. Probably because of Japan too but in the west there was almost no time between VF1 vanilla, Remix and VF2.

I liked Remix a ton. when I still collected Saturn stuff I played it more than VF2. Good times, you could purchase JP versions of these games for a buck on Ebay.

 

[Alexios]

SEGA did not have VF remix ready for the ST-V board ready until 1995, so how you can say they had VF Remix ready for Saturn is beyond me.
Sega Rally looked amazing at the time, had the best physics one had ever seen used on a car and was a super close port of an even more powerful Model 2B board

The blame lies with SEGA America which was in a state of panic and looked to rush out the Saturn in the West. It thought the 32X was clean up and then when the 2nd wave of games and hardware sales were crap, it had nothing left. Far better if Sega America still went early, but looked for Aug 95 when games like VF Remix, Bug and Clockwork Knight 2 were also ready to come online

All in all if not the for 32X and SEGA America also screwing up Sonic Extreme. SEGA would have been in a far better position to take the fight more to Nintendo and should have beaten the N64

And contrary to his post Sega Rally was exceptional with flawless 30fps, comparing it to VF2's 60fps is silly since they obviously couldn't cut all 3D scenery like VF2/Tekken 3 could...


Wanting Saturn to (or thinking PS can) match Model 2 is dumb and Sega Rally was #1 @ home in 1995/6 on its merits and not in comparison to Daytona's technically lesser port

 

[UnNamed]

Sega Rally, exceptional port. I would say SR is one of the few games really faithful to the original, every other games like VR (in its all ports), Daytona, STC, etc were always different in some way.

But Sega Rally was also a game simpler to port than Daytona or VF2, it wasn't exceptional even in the arcade. The proof is SR was good at the first try, with solid graphics and a larger horizon, but for example even Daytona CCE had issues with the draw distance, or VF2 lacks of lighting and shadows, or STC with a simpler geometry, etc.

 

[Alexios]

You literally claimed VF2 was a better port earlier in order to downplay the SR port for not being 60fps even though it was at the fps of any of the best home console racers. You weren't talking about the arcades here since SR fps was flawless 57.52 or whatever arcade monitors used just like VF2.

Sega Rally wasn't exceptional in terms of polygons and framerate, SEGA did a (way)better job with VF2. SR was an hit for its gameplay, certainly not for its graphics, that were well received at the time because of the Daytona debacle, not bacause their merits.

Now I cited the game differences and why SR couldn't be 60fps also you act like VF2 is not a better/as good port given other cuts they did to keep the 60fps on a far inferior console? All just to say this "they got it right the first time so it must have been easier" and have it only apply to SR by downplaying VF2 to not also be "right the first time"? What? They had to cut the fps to 30 and downgrade pretty much everything so no it wasn't easy. VF2 was able to do different cuts like you described, further than SR in other ways, to keep the 60 fps. As for Daytona not being as nice in Sega Rally's engine, well it does have more opponents but more importantly it was an engine made for Sega Rally, shit wasn't multipurpose like UE back then. It's a wonder it even worked out as well as it did. If you just wanna say Saturn sucks for not being able to do Model 2 games flawlessly so any bad port is its fault like Daytona and STCC are its fault and any good port is not because of its merits or even the merits of the development team but because the game wasn't such a big deal technically despite the gulf in hardware power, well, whatever, you win by default no matter what, lol. And of course no comment at all so far on how the Namco boards PS got its ports from didn't really hold a candle to Model 2 either so of course any necessary cuts were less to begin with, no, what was a lower end game to a degree worth discussing was Sega Rally with its ace physics of all games, lol.

PS: for all the cuts, imo the way the lighting/shading works (or isn't) in Saturn VF2 makes the polygons less apparent than on the arcade game where there are clearly more polygons but the lighting is almost flat shaded so you see individual squares etc. at all times, when on Saturn you just see the characters. It's not necessarily a negative change based on technical ability as keeping the same lighting or even lighting more like the vanilla VF on Saturn (vs Remix also doing away with it with similar benefits) may have made the even lower polycount models look far uglier than doing it this way.


Then you have games like Fighting Vipers or Fighters Megamix not looking nearly as nice or not being as high res on Saturn when theoretically you'd think it's possible since they're so similar games to VF2 or Last Bronx but everything has different cpu/gpu needs and stuff you can't know as a user.

 

[UnNamed]

I "litterally" didn't write any of the thing you say. Litterally.

 

[Fat Frog]

It's hard to believe that 2023 Sega (...)and the 90's Sega are the same company...the most dominant developer of arcade games.

For years, arcade racers fans asked Nagoshi (he had an important position at Sega Studios) to revive Daytona, he almost only pushed for more Yakuza games.
Was it Sega's fault ? Was it Nagoshi's decision to focus on story driven sand box games ?

Sega is currently developing (source: Bloomberg) Crazy Taxi and Jet Set Radio reboots.(Shuji Utsumi, Mister Dreamcast is back at Sega and now leading Sega Studio's projects)
Nagoshi left Sega to develop... story driven sand box games :

I think it's clear who didn't give a shit about racers and allowed such situation.

I'm glad Nagoshi left Sega. He'll do nice games at Nagoshi Studio (good for him, good for his fans) but he'll stop using Sega's studios to sculpt his own legacy

 

[nkarafo]

And contrary to his post Sega Rally was exceptional with flawless 30fps, comparing it to VF2's 60fps is silly since they obviously couldn't cut all 3D scenery like VF2/Tekken 3 could...


Wanting Saturn to (or thinking PS can) match Model 2 is dumb and Sega Rally was #1 @ home in 1995/6 on its merits and not in comparison to Daytona's technically lesser port

Saturn's Sega Rally issue isn't the frame rate or the draw distance. These are fine. IMO, it's the very low resolution combined with it's ultra sharp pixels, dithered transparencies and the environments that are mostly dirt, trees and rocks so their textures are grainy. The end result is what i call a "pixelated mess".

 

[Fat Frog]

Daytona 2's director Makoto Osaki(like most arcade developers from AM2, AM1) is now working on console games:

https://hrmos.co/pages/sega/jobs/258 (Division 2 is Osaki's Division)

(official visuals from Sega hiring pages)


Crazy Taxi, Jet Set Radio, Cosmic Smash (?).

Shuji Utsumi's direction for Sega upcoming projects is clearly different from Nagoshi's vision.

As hinted earlier by VF5US's producer, a new Virtua Fighter is almost locked.
Soul Hackers had a sequel lately... So (some of)the "past IP groups" mentioned as examples in this financial report must be taken veeeeery seriously as upcoming projects.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

ah cool! because when i start it in launchbox the resolution sucks , maybe im doing something wrong

If launchboox gives yu the ability to pass in parameters after the .exe, try that. You'll see in my screenshot above, I am passing in "--res=2560,1440 -fullscreen -throttle -input-system=xinput"

This tells Supermodel that I want 2560x1440 res, fullscreen, FPS throttled, and input system set to Xinput (so I can play with my Xbox Elite controller). Good luck!

 

[Fat Frog]

As for the lack of arcade racers lately at Sega and Namco, there are several factors:

-Gamers didn't buy jp arcade racers that much during the 7th gen (there were Ridge Racer 6,7, Sega Rally Online, Outrun Online, Daytona Arcade Perfect...) so Sega and Namco stopped porting them on the 8th gen.

- Medias outlets were snubish with the genre.(xbox official Magazine gave Outrun Online a...55% !!!)

- On the 8th gen, the Virtua Racing Port on Switch didn't perform that well either...

- Sega and Namco should give this genre another shot with massive Ridge Racer and Daytona collections on all consoles.(not just one port for only one console like Virtua Racing)
I think there is finally a thirst for the Arcade Racer genre.

 

[Crayon]

I'm all about suzuki but I felt those line of post-virtua racing racers were somewhat samey. I could stretch it and say they were kind of like expansions of the same game. Daytona's handling was fucking awesome, don't get me wrong. I found scud and daytona 2 to be similar though. Jumping into wither when they were new, I found that I already had the handling of the cars down and I was just learning these amazing new tracks. Compare to sega rally from am3 and that had a totally different feel. You really had to learn a new game coming from daytona.