• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Denuvo launches new technology to prevent Switch emulation

TintoConCasera

Gold Member
They will need it. Denuvo is really tough to beat. It takes months for games to be cracked... or 0 days if devs release wrong exe lol
Are those cracking delays really because of that? I thought modern day crackers only cracked games if they find enough money to motivate themselves on their Patreons.

Legit asking, I've been away from the scene for many years.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Notice how piracy for PS5 and Xbox Series X/S are basically nonexistent as of now, while it's only switch getting piracy problems. Nintendo didn't have piracy this severe with the gamecube did they? Or N64? Or SNES?
Gee, its almost like.when your console is up to modern hardware standards, emulation and piracy are exclusive to the top 1% of people who can afford the cutting edge. WHO WOULDA THUNK IT?!?
Maybe you're as young as your avatar looks, but piracy and emulation were absolutely rampant on both the Gamecube and the SNES. The N64 was the exception - mostly because it was much more difficult than PlayStation 1 piracy/emulation, and the two systems got a lot of the same games. Don't get me wrong, N64 emulation existed from as far back as 96 - it was just terrible and didn't run games nearly as good as the actual hardware.

Even when the SNES was still in its heyday, the Professor SF / Game Doctor (and it's clones) were a thing that existed and were popular on the black market circles. These would let you dump your SNES games to a 3.5-inch floppy drive. Those dumped files could also be played on your PC on programs like esnes and eventually stuff like snes9x or zsnes. The games could be comfortably emulated on a Pentium Pro 100, and once the Pentium II came out in '97, emulating SNES games was far superior to playing on actual hardware.

Gamecube piracy emulation was interesting in its own right - the games came on those whopping 1.6GB mini-discs, and one method involved burning discs a certain way then physically cutting them down to fit. Some people physically modified their Gamecubes to hold full size CDs. Another method involved the broadband network adapter (Ethernet) and connecting your Gamecube to software running on your PC that would stream an ISO to the console directly. If memory serves right, it was done through an exploit with the first printing of Phantasy Star Online - and copies of that game shot up in price overnight when that was found out.

Sony and Microsoft aren't immune to this either. The original Xbox was marred with tons of different types of mod chips that let people install tons of games to their consoles internal hard drive. Same thing happened to the Xbox 360, even the first model before the red ring. PS1 emulation was so powerful on PC that there were a few commercial offerings, like Bleem!, that Sony tried to sue and lost. The PS2 was laughable, you could pirate games by sticking a thin piece of plastic in the slot to block the eject sensor and just switch out a disk with a fake one. Sony PS4s are widely hackable at this very moment to play every game (and PC emulators are coming a long way in that regard as well, even in the past couple of weeks). There are a few known exploits in the wild for the PS5 that hackers are actively developing that will enable PS5 piracy probably by the end of the year.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that people will always figure out ways around this kind of crap. Sometimes (like in the case of the Switch and a lot of Nintendo's past consoles) this can happen even when the console is the current "best" on the market.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Maybe you're as young as your avatar looks, but piracy and emulation were absolutely rampant on both the Gamecube and the SNES. The N64 was the exception - mostly because it was much more difficult than PlayStation 1 piracy/emulation, and the two systems got a lot of the same games. Don't get me wrong, N64 emulation existed from as far back as 96 - it was just terrible and didn't run games nearly as good as the actual hardware.

Even when the SNES was still in its heyday, the Professor SF / Game Doctor (and it's clones) were a thing that existed and were popular on the black market circles. These would let you dump your SNES games to a 3.5-inch floppy drive. Those dumped files could also be played on your PC on programs like esnes and eventually stuff like snes9x or zsnes. The games could be comfortably emulated on a Pentium Pro 100, and once the Pentium II came out in '97, emulating SNES games was far superior to playing on actual hardware.

Gamecube piracy emulation was interesting in its own right - the games came on those whopping 1.6GB mini-discs, and one method involved burning discs a certain way then physically cutting them down to fit. Some people physically modified their Gamecubes to hold full size CDs. Another method involved the broadband network adapter (Ethernet) and connecting your Gamecube to software running on your PC that would stream an ISO to the console directly. If memory serves right, it was done through an exploit with the first printing of Phantasy Star Online - and copies of that game shot up in price overnight when that was found out.

Sony and Microsoft aren't immune to this either. The original Xbox was marred with tons of different types of mod chips that let people install tons of games to their consoles internal hard drive. Same thing happened to the Xbox 360, even the first model before the red ring. PS1 emulation was so powerful on PC that there were a few commercial offerings, like Bleem!, that Sony tried to sue and lost. The PS2 was laughable, you could pirate games by sticking a thin piece of plastic in the slot to block the eject sensor and just switch out a disk with a fake one. Sony PS4s are widely hackable at this very moment to play every game (and PC emulators are coming a long way in that regard as well, even in the past couple of weeks). There are a few known exploits in the wild for the PS5 that hackers are actively developing that will enable PS5 piracy probably by the end of the year.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that people will always figure out ways around this kind of crap. Sometimes (like in the case of the Switch and a lot of Nintendo's past consoles) this can happen even when the console is the current "best" on the market.
I stand corrected
Though the pentium pro came out in 95, so people had to wait 4 years to comfortably play snes games on their PC
By then the N64 was out
Compare that to now where Yuzu came out just 1 year after release and had great performance even in 2019
 
Last edited:

rofif

Member
Are those cracking delays really because of that? I thought modern day crackers only cracked games if they find enough money to motivate themselves on their Patreons.

Legit asking, I've been away from the scene for many years.
No idea. I don't pirate.
I just see it takes ages for some games to appear or never
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
it was just terrible and didn't run games nearly as good as the actual hardware.
Even today that's still somewhat the case- at this point people find it easier to reverse engineer the N64 exclusives and port them to other platforms than make a bad attempt of emulating the complex console
 
Last edited:

chromhound

Gold Member
Popcorn GIF by WWE
 

keefged4

Member
Ripping games to play on PC is just as petty.
Wait wut?

I have a switch. I have a physical copy of Xenoblade Chronicles 3. I have finished the game from start to finish using Yuzu at 2x resolution along with other graphical improvement mods. I tried playing it on switch but couldn't settle for the extremely low resolution when docked on my 4k TV. So why would I choose to play in an inferior way and who is hurt by this? Nintendo/Monilith still have my money, and I get to enjoy the product in a massivly improved way. In what universe is this petty or wrong?
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I stand corrected
Though the pentium pro came out in 95, so people had to wait 4 years to comfortably play snes games on their PC
By then the N64 was out
Compare that to now where Yuzu came out just 1 year after release and had great performance even in 2019
The Switch is a bit different from almost anything else I've seen since being interested in this stuff since the 80s.

The difference here is twofold - one is that modern PCs can typically run circles around modern game consoles. This is thanks in no small measure to crypto miners somewhat artificially pushing the boundaries of modern graphics card design / production that's happened to have a positive effect on gamers.

Secondly, Nintendo fucked up bad by using the off-the-shelf Tegra X1, which ending up giving hackers and emulation developers the "keys to the kingdom" (so to speak). Instead of having to reverse engineer solutions from scratch like previous game consoles, the emulated system calls and such can be tested on actual production hardware quickly and easily.
 

Holammer

Member
Wait wut?

I have a switch. I have a physical copy of Xenoblade Chronicles 3. I have finished the game from start to finish using Yuzu at 2x resolution along with other graphical improvement mods. I tried playing it on switch but couldn't settle for the extremely low resolution when docked on my 4k TV. So why would I choose to play in an inferior way and who is hurt by this? Nintendo/Monilith still have my money, and I get to enjoy the product in a massivly improved way. In what universe is this petty or wrong?
 

ACESHIGH

Member
Nintendo doesn't understand that PC gaming is inevitable. Sooner or later all games will be assimilated. The Galactus of gaming.

Switch user base is mainly japanese folk that don't want anything to do with PC gaming and western fanboys that buy Nintendo anyway. Not sure how it would hurt to put their games on PC and have an additional revenue stream. Just look at MS and Sony.
 
Last edited:

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Nintendo makes the best games in the industry and sells them for cheaper than their competition, so if you pirate them you’re a cheap PoS in my opinion.

If you somehow buy them and emulate them using your own means (which I find difficult to believe) then it’s fine.

That’s what Denuvo’s trying to block. Sure you’re going to get a few bad apples, but that’s with anything. Blocking Switch owners that want to experience their games at high resolutions and frame rates sucks.

If anything it’s just going to hurt regular Switch users. Meanwhile pirates will have a better playing game, once it’s cracked. Pirates win. Resident Evil Village is a great example of paying customers getting the shittier version thanks to Denuvo.
 
Last edited:

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
I pirate the games i buy on switch because playing on pc actually gives me a better version. How is nintendo so fucking backwards in 2022? Playing metroid dread on pc is better.. this is just fucking stupid.. port the fucking games to pc 2 years later like sony does..
print money

Or release a switch pro... the oled model deserved that.
 

Chukhopops

Member
That’s what Denuvo’s trying to block. Sure you’re going to get a few bad apples, but that’s with anything. Blocking Switch owners that want to experience their games at high resolutions and frame rates sucks.
The intent is to block both or to at least prevent it from happening before the game is even released commercially like it happened recently.

It sucks for legitimate users but it’s easy to imagine why Nintendo would want that.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Ehh.. I mean their games hardly get discounted so that’s not true.
If you go on Amazon.fr you will see PS5 games are €79 while Nintendo games are €45.

So a Sony game would need to be over 40% off to match the Nintendo price, how long does that take usually, a year? If you check the price history on good games like Demon’s Souls the lowest ever price was €49 and the game is almost two years old. Stuff like Returnal never went below €59.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Scenario 1: cracked game - Pirate has the option between buying game and pirating.
Scenario 2: uncracked game - Pirate has the option of waiting for the game to be cracked or buying the game.

The longer the game stays uncracked the more likely it is for the pirate to just give up and buy the game instead.
This is the truth. I see it all the time among friends. Goes for movies as well. Some are just tuned that way, if they can pirate it then they never buy it. But if it’s too much hassle or takes too long to find a decent copy then they will buy it as cheap as possible, and will boast about how little they payed.
Used to be the same thing for music but Spotify has converted pretty much everyone since it’s so easy and started out being free.
 

Bragr

Member
Wait wut?

I have a switch. I have a physical copy of Xenoblade Chronicles 3. I have finished the game from start to finish using Yuzu at 2x resolution along with other graphical improvement mods. I tried playing it on switch but couldn't settle for the extremely low resolution when docked on my 4k TV. So why would I choose to play in an inferior way and who is hurt by this? Nintendo/Monilith still have my money, and I get to enjoy the product in a massivly improved way. In what universe is this petty or wrong?
Because it's petty to not be able to play games at anything but 4K to the point where you have to rip things.

And it builds up a community of people who rip, cheat, and steal to play videogames.
 

IFireflyl

Member
Ripping games to play on PC is just as petty.

How is that petty? My PC can usually play the game with better performance than my Switch. But even for the occasional game that has emulation issues I can still fall back to my Switch, and even then I rip the games to an external SSD. This gives me more storage space, meaning I don't have to delete and re-download games due to storage issues.

Do you not know what "petty" means? It means that you're being spiteful about something small. Go ahead: do some mental gymnastics to explain how my playing my Switch games (which I bought) on my PC is petty. This should be good.
 

Knightime_X

Member
If nintendo would make a decent console to begin with and have some of their games officially on PC they wouldn't have to go through any of this.
smh
 
Last edited:

Bragr

Member
How is that petty? My PC can usually play the game with better performance than my Switch. But even for the occasional game that has emulation issues I can still fall back to my Switch, and even then I rip the games to an external SSD. This gives me more storage space, meaning I don't have to delete and re-download games due to storage issues.

Do you not know what "petty" means? It means that you're being spiteful about something small. Go ahead: do some mental gymnastics to explain how my playing my Switch games (which I bought) on my PC is petty. This should be good.
Its like bringing a chair to the cinema because you refuse to sit in cinema peasant chairs.
 
LOL

Again, a technology which will only waste everyone's time, thus, money.

See you in the news "New anti-emulation protection has been defeated"

DENUVO is like poo poo below your shoes, always trying to stay on your shoes with a warm stinkness.

That's it.
 
Last edited:

keefged4

Member
Because it's petty to not be able to play games at anything but 4K to the point where you have to rip things.

And it builds up a community of people who rip, cheat, and steal to play videogames.
Haha are you for real? ..have you tried Yuzu? Go on, give it a go. Come back here after trying some of the games you've ripped (oh no!) legally and played at a higher resolution and tell me if you'd rather play the switch version.
 
This is the truth. I see it all the time among friends. Goes for movies as well. Some are just tuned that way, if they can pirate it then they never buy it. But if it’s too much hassle or takes too long to find a decent copy then they will buy it as cheap as possible, and will boast about how little they payed.
Used to be the same thing for music but Spotify has converted pretty much everyone since it’s so easy and started out being free.
Finally someone that gets it.
 

Pejo

Member
Well it's a good thing the Switch has all that horsepower to spare.

I too like poisoning the well to make sure we kill the mice.
 

Ezquimacore

Banned
Nintendo doesn't understand that PC gaming is inevitable. Sooner or later all games will be assimilated. The Galactus of gaming.

Switch user base is mainly japanese folk that don't want anything to do with PC gaming and western fanboys that buy Nintendo anyway. Not sure how it would hurt to put their games on PC and have an additional revenue stream. Just look at MS and Sony.
Some people here don't understand this is not Nintendo doing this, this is Denuvo selling their trash drm tech to third party publishers. Just like valve is not doing it themselves.
 

ACESHIGH

Member
Some people here don't understand this is not Nintendo doing this, this is Denuvo selling their trash drm tech to third party publishers. Just like valve is not doing it themselves.

But this seems something Nintendo would love to do, they are the most backward thinking console provider. If it were for Nintendo they would send hitmen to any house with a pirated console.
 
Top Bottom