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[Lethal01]

This perfectly captures perhaps my biggest problem that RT solves - strange glow that doesn't match the lights actually present in the scene, and particularly strangely glowing human characters. For some reason I find human characters to suffer the worst from this issue.

However, the RT image also demonstrates some remaining glow. I'm wondering what would solve this. Additional secondary bounces? And/or is some aspect of the RT pipeline resolution-limited in a manner that produces this remaining glow, such that increasing resolution along some part of the pipeline would solve this?

Could you crop a specific area with the glow, There are still remnants of the built in GI in there but it's also possible that you are just forgetting about a light that is illuminating the character since it's offscreen. ALso don't forget about fresnel, it's normal for some objects to look like they are glowing at the rim compared to more diffuse objects around them(depending on the lighting set up)

 

[Marlenus]

It was the same for anisotropic filtering, then programmable shaders, then tesselation, then AA, now it’s RT.

There’s a big effort by YouTubers to discredit RT by selecting scenes in shadow/dark it seems. Is it because it generate clicks?

Nobody I have watched/read discredits it. What has been said is that the IQ increase comes with a large FPS hit which is often not worth it for most users.

In a gen or 2 that will change and I look forward to it.

 

[Dampf]

hI gUyS a SmAlL riDdLe FoR yOu

yOu'Ll nEvEr gUesS wHicH oNe iS RtX oN...

YoU WoN'T EvEr GuEsS WhIcH OnE Is WHiCh!

 

[Rikkori]

Some interesting comparisons here:

 

[sobaka770]

I wonder if I enable full RT shadows and reflections and lighting, should I then be able to disable some of the genetic shadow options like contact shadows, cascade shadows, AO, SSR? Cause surely those have to overlap...

Btw the game looks great with RT, wouldn't turn it off for FPS. It's not a twitch shooter.

 

[mr.dilya]

Yeah LOL I knew I wasn't bugging because my game didn't look anything like that pic and I don't play with RT.

 

[Reckheim]

Yeah LOL I knew I wasn't bugging because my game didn't look anything like that pic and I don't play with RT.

I think it depends on what time of day you do that particular mission.

 

[Lister]

RT will start to really shine when game worlds start being more reactive and physics based. And now that console CPU's aren't hot garbage, that might start to happen.

 

[Lethal01]

Yeah LOL I knew I wasn't bugging because my game didn't look anything like that pic and I don't play with RT.

This is exactly how it looks at max setting without RT, what's the point in lying about this?
That screenshot is just darker it has all the same issues

 

[RoboFu]

Okay i just did a comparison myself. same time of day ultra RT top ultra non RT bottom.

You can see there is a difference but hte original comparison image just seems too dark to be the same time of day or not edited in some way( lots of people up the contrast on images and videos).

 

[Sir_Impaler]

I wonder how many people actually use the gamma correction setting while they play the game.

As with most things involving brightness, contrast, gamma etc. it makes a world of difference whether you have RTX on or not.

I adjust mine almost every play session on any system because I don’t always play at the same time of day. Literally takes two minutes or less and I’m good.

 

[regawdless]

This is exactly how it looks at max setting without RT, what's the point in lying about this?

That's such a huge difference. RT lighting makes it look coherent and natural while the non RT lighting looks all kinds of wrong.

The RT in this game makes a bigger difference than any other visual setting. Depending on the scenes of course, but RT makes the game feel coherent and grounded.

 

[Mister Wolf]

This is exactly how it looks at max setting without RT, what's the point in lying about this?

They are desperate.

 

[Lethal01]

I wonder how many people actually use the gamma correction setting while they play the game.

As with most things involving brightness, contrast, gamma etc. it makes a world of difference whether you have RTX on or not.

I adjust mine almost every play session on any system because I don’t always play at the same time of day. Literally takes two minutes or less and I’m good.

I just calibrate my room so that I don't have to make my gamma wrong whenever the sun is out.

 

[BuffNTuff]

There’s no doubt Ray Tracing is fantastic in terms of quality. The outstanding question is whether the quality is worth the performance trade off. I don’t think so. I think the AO in this game is half assed and RT still isn’t leaps better.

I find it hilarious to see all these PC gamers say RT is a “next generation” leap in fidelity and act like they’ve never seen HBAO+ before, which literally does 90% of the things RT does that DF raves about in the video.

 

[regawdless]

There’s no doubt Ray Tracing is fantastic in terms of quality. The outstanding question is whether the quality is worth the performance trade off. I don’t think so. I think the AO in this game is half assed and RT still isn’t leaps better.

I find it hilarious to see all these PC gamers say RT is a “next generation” leap in fidelity and act like they’ve never seen HBAO+ before, which literally does 90% of the things RT does that DF raves about in the video.

Doesn't compute. HBAO+ doesn't do reflections or GI with convincing realistic lighting. Good contact shadows on certain objects, yes. And HBAO+ does it well.
But RT does so much more than just shadows in this game.

So I don't really get your point here, could you elaborate?

 

[Barakov]

The raytracing is transformative in certain areas, times of day in this game if you have the hardware for it. As good as the RT is I'll take the higher FPS over it.

 

[Lethal01]

Like they’ve never seen HBAO+ before, which literally does 90% of the things RT does that DF raves about in the video.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

This is like saying a tricycle does 90% of the things a boat does.

 

[BuffNTuff]

You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

This is like saying a tricycle does 90% of the things a boat does.

I didn’t say HBAO+ can do 80% of what Ray tracing can do, I specifically said 80% of what Alex goes on about in his video which is mostly around shadows and outlines around objects that look floating etc. Shit that HBAO+ can easily fake.

 

[regawdless]

The raytracing is transformative in certain areas, times of day in this game if you have the hardware for it. As good as the RT is I'll take the higher FPS over it.

Just out of curiosity because I read that point often:
What fps are you targeting and what fps would be acceptable for you with RT on?

 

[Barakov]

Just out of curiosity because I read that point often:
What fps are you targeting and what fps would be acceptable for you with RT on?

I playing at 60fps. With RT, I want 60fps as well. I know it's crazy to want that but I'll take 60fps over RT when push comes to shove.

 

[thuGG_pl]

I playing at 60fps. With RT, I want 60fps as well. I know it's crazy to want that but I'll take 60fps over RT when push comes to shove.

You can do that with todays hardware.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

This game with Reshade and maxxed out on PC...christ on a bike, it looks crazy good.

Why am I nowadays thinking of building a PC instead in the new year

 

[Lethal01]

I didn’t say HBAO+ can do 80% of what Ray tracing can do, I specifically said 80% of what Alex goes on about in his video which is mostly around shadows and outlines around objects that look floating etc. Shit that HBAO+ can easily fake.

When HBAO fakes it, it looks fake. compared to Raytracing it's a huge downgrade. That aside, they talk about a lot more than ambient occlusion Ambient Occlusion doesn't add in lighting which they talk about more.

It's been a whole decade of having the shortcomings of super inaccurate AO solutions like HBAO slammed in my face, if you didn't notice the issues with it good for you... VXAO did look promising but at that point you might as well go to full on RTAO.

 

[ShigeruMiyamoto]

Which one has RTX ?

bottom?

The one on top?

 

[regawdless]

I playing at 60fps. With RT, I want 60fps as well. I know it's crazy to want that but I'll take 60fps over RT when push comes to shove.

With a 3080, you can do that if you have a 1440p display. I'm playing Cyberpunk at ~60fps, 1440p DLSS quality, with RT maxed.
But I needed some well adjusted reshade sharpening. After that, it does look really good and not perceptibly worse than native.

 

[Karppuuna]

If you have about 2000€ PC then yes. First thinks i personally cut when i optimise my games in PC are shadows and reflections.

 

[scalman]

So its fine for devs that they ambient oclussion setting does nothing in game? All games i tried before had very visiable differences with that option. Must be engine that works that way or its optimized for consoles thats why it doesnt work who knows, but they could make some patch maybe that would adress those.

And people with rt on does have same probs with too dark rooms where you cant see nothing?

And most times its one room after another where tou go in and see just black nothing more. I tried to change calibration but even on max slider to left i cant see nothing in room like this.

 

[Lethal01]

So its fine for devs that they ambient oclussion setting does nothing in game? All games i tried before had very visiable differences with that option. Must be engine that works that way or its optimized for consoles thats why it doesnt work who knows, but they could make some patch maybe that would adress those.

And people with rt on does have same probs with too dark rooms where you cant see nothing?

And most times its one room after another where tou go in and see just black nothing more. I tried to change calibration but even on max slider to left i cant see nothing in room like this.

On my screen it's nowhere near the level where I can't see what's in the room.
It just seems like a regular dark room to me, not a glitch or anything.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

So its fine for devs that they ambient oclussion setting does nothing in game? All games i tried before had very visiable differences with that option. Must be engine that works that way or its optimized for consoles thats why it doesnt work who knows, but they could make some patch maybe that would adress those.

And people with rt on does have same probs with too dark rooms where you cant see nothing?

And most times its one room after another where tou go in and see just black nothing more. I tried to change calibration but even on max slider to left i cant see nothing in room like this.

I mean. That's not a problem with RT. There are like zero lights in that room lol

 

[scalman]

I mean. That's not a problem with RT. There are like zero lights in that room lol

Never had problem before even in darkest video games to see but in this i cant see anything where i go where door is like nothing at all.
Found similar problem sometimes in car cockpit when you look just more up and its becomes too bright just white picture then you look more down and its normalizes again but some cars like those large army trucks have that angle in cockpit that it was making too bright picture .

 

[sinnergy]

Never had problem before even in darkest video games to see but in this i cant see anything where i go where door is like nothing at all.
Found similar problem sometimes in car cockpit when you look just more up and its becomes too bright just white picture then you look more down and its normalizes again but some cars like those large army trucks have that angle in cockpit that it was making too bright picture .

Just like real life ... but I get your point , for gameplay reasons they could have cheated a bit and brighten the room.

 

[Shmunter]

Just like real life ... but I get your point , for gameplay reasons they could have cheated a bit and brighten the room.

Games are a visual medium and scenes need to be lit no different to movies. More often than not, to express a mood or setting. Nothing to do with reality and as long as there is no disconnect in the brain, fake lighting makes a scene more attractive.

 

[scalman]

Just like real life ... but I get your point , for gameplay reasons they could have cheated a bit and brighten the room.

Or at least put settings for brightness contrast as i dont want to change my tv settings for just one game. Nights outside are fine not too dark but inside buildings its too much.
If other dark games dont have problem with that i think its some wrong in game when its chaning from outside to inside if that inside area doesnt have any light. I tried to play at night in pitch black room and couldnt see anything still. In some cases i couldnt even find door to exit from room
there would be easy solution for all that - flashlight or some gun light or cloth light.

 

[Rikkori]

There’s no doubt Ray Tracing is fantastic in terms of quality. The outstanding question is whether the quality is worth the performance trade off.

Exactly. This is what all these people who compare screen-space effects in scenarios where they don't work (eg looking at a puddle straight on) are missing. The whole point is that SS effects strike the optimal balance between visuals & costs. Because GPU time isn't infinite there's trade-offs that can occur and there's always something you can better use that extra time on rather than pay 3-4x the cost for the accurate RT version instead. SSR works fantastic in 90% of gameplay scenarios, which is why it's used, same as for every other effect.

And that's why you see that game companies are not focusing on RT at all but instead are seeking the optimised rasterised versions (eg Unreal with Lumen). RT, just like 4K (which also isn't "figured out" - a 3090 does 40-50 fps with no RT in CP2077, hardly something to write home about for a >$1500 GPU), remains a bonus for ultra high-end PCs, or as an optional mode to help market games on consoles (to a much more limited extent). This is still an early adopter period overall, the real switch will be in 7-8 years with the next next-gen.

 

[FireFly]

Exactly. This is what all these people who compare screen-space effects in scenarios where they don't work (eg looking at a puddle straight on) are missing. The whole point is that SS effects strike the optimal balance between visuals & costs. Because GPU time isn't infinite there's trade-offs that can occur and there's always something you can better use that extra time on rather than pay 3-4x the cost for the accurate RT version instead. SSR works fantastic in 90% of gameplay scenarios, which is why it's used, same as for every other effect.

Sure, but those situations where SS effects don't work, is precisely where ray tracing may represent a better tradeoff, if hardware acceleration is available. If you're hanging against a building in Spider Man, none of the reflected objects are in the camera, and the screen budget is spent rendering a flat surface. In that situation, turning on some kind of, appropriately optimised, ray traced reflection can make a huge visual difference.

If you look at AMD's own ray tracing demo, they combine ray traced reflections *with* SSR, to cover both cases.

 

[Rikkori]

Sure, but those situations where SS effects don't work, is precisely where ray tracing may represent a better tradeoff, if hardware acceleration is available. If you're hanging against a building in Spider Man, none of the reflected objects are in the camera, and the screen budget is spent rendering a flat surface. In that situation, turning on some kind of, appropriately optimised, ray traced reflection can make a huge visual difference.

If you look at AMD's own ray tracing demo, they combine ray traced reflections *with* SSR, to cover both cases.

Right, emphasis on the 'may'. Let's see if a Spider-man built from the ground up for next-gen would use that rendering time for RT instead of something else. And maybe it will, modern city environments are perfect for RT Refs, but there's a reason why it made no sense to include at all in something like Demon's Souls Remake. So the problem I see is that people are thinking in terms of SSR vs RT-R, when in reality it's SSR + (options made available by the extra render time) vs RT R.

Everyone's combining SSR with RT in games that aren't path-traced, it's not just the AMD demo. SSR will ofc not go anywhere even as we get better RT hardware, because the real RT costs are sky high.

 

[BuffNTuff]

Playing gears 5 on series x ... no Ray tracing, but screen space reflections and screen space global illumination. It looks absolutely incredible. The new gears 5 hive busters dlc is probably the most impressive game I’ve seen - even superior to cyberpunk, control, and demons souls.

RT is perfection but there’s lower hanging fruit with more impactful visual gains where we can allocate gpu resources for now. It just makes more sense to use things like SSR and SSGI until we get there (I’d say ps6). I’d say this is “in general” as I think there’s going to be unique situations where RT provides the better trade off, such as with spider man - but that will not generally be the case.

 

[regawdless]

Playing gears 5 on series x ... no Ray tracing, but screen space reflections and screen space global illumination. It looks absolutely incredible. The new gears 5 hive busters dlc is probably the most game I’ve seen - even superior to cyberpunk, control, and demons souls.

RT is perfection but there’s lower hanging fruit with more impactful visual gains where we can allocate gpu resources for now. It just makes more sense to use things like SSR and SSGI until we get there (I’d say ps6). I’d say this is “in general” as I think there’s going to be unique situations where RT provides the better trade off, such as with spider man - but that will not generally be the case.

It always depends on the game. Games with static time of day and prebaked lighting won't benefit as much from RT GI as something dynamic like Cyberpunk for example.

It's about balancing the benefits and trade offs. The more options the devs have the better though.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

How ridiculous those who post photos where the RT is not seen to prove that the RT is useless, like in the first post

It's a groundbreaking, unripe, feature. I willingly exchange some frame rate for some good RT

And RT is not only just reflections, in Cyberpunk also change how lights propagate in the scene...

 

[ArtHands]

I'd rather take 60fps honestly. Ray tracing on consoles adds a little bit, but nothing groundbreaking. People need to chill with all that hyperbole

Of course it does nothing on consoles, considering there's no DLSS to compensate for the dip of performance when ray-tracing is used, not to mention that console is using ray-tracing from AMD, not Nvidia.

 

[scalman]

But could game use like all other nvidia special stuff from previous years as well? We all remember them, they looked very cool but then in couple years all stopped use them, but why? Welk all mostly means ubi games. Will rt will be forgotten same way as well? If not why we cant have rt together with its own HBAO+ , sofy shadows texh, tesselation and some other. Why those others where just dropped after one year or so?
i mean next gen game engines could have all that allready in engine maybe like later games. Though i think devs can make amazing looking games without it as well if they want

 

[thelurkinghorror]

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But could game use like all other nvidia special stuff from previous years as well? We all remember them, they looked very cool but then in couple years all stopped use them, but why? Welk all mostly means ubi games. Will rt will be forgotten same way as well? If not why we cant have rt together with its own HBAO+ , sofy shadows texh, tesselation and some other. Why those others where just dropped after one year or so?

Comparing things like nvidia hairworks for example with ray tracing, it's like comparing 3D with VR or worse because 3D is at least part of the VR.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Raytracing is a luxury like leather or heated seats in your car. Metro Exodus had other luxuries besides raytracing like Hairworks for monsters and tessellation. I turned that on too. I'm sure its someone somewhere saying how you can barely even notice that as well. Well I notice the "leather seats".

 

[ozz ex machina]

What exactly is it with the beef of RTX some people have? It's clearly not a gimmick. It's clearly impressive when done right and is the future. It's just a case of whether you prefer better fps or not right now.

I assume there is some kind of agenda from people who can't afford RTX cards that can run cyber fine and have it on? If so - get saving and shut up.

 

[regawdless]

What exactly is it with the beef of RTX some people have? It's clearly not a gimmick. It's clearly impressive when done right and is the future. It's just a case of whether you prefer better fps or not right now.

I assume there is some kind of agenda from people who can't afford RTX cards that can run cyber fine and have it on? If so - get saving and shut up.

It's baffling. Feels like downplaying it to not feel too bad for not having it.

It's anyone's choice if it's worth the fps hit, depending of the hardware at hand. That decision is subjective.

But the amount of negative posts here is weird, as it obviously enhances the game in a big way.

I guess people don't like progression now?

 

[BuffNTuff]

But the amount of negative posts here is weird, as it obviously enhances the game in a big way.

I guess people don't like progression now?

Lol what’s weird about not wanting to tank performance by 50-75% for a feature that typically adds subtle improvements?

I’ve noticed your position in this thread is unwavering. What exactly is hard to understand that some people dont think the massive performance impact is worth it?

 

[GaviotaGrande]

So its fine for devs that they ambient oclussion setting does nothing in game? All games i tried before had very visiable differences with that option. Must be engine that works that way or its optimized for consoles thats why it doesnt work who knows, but they could make some patch maybe that would adress those.

And people with rt on does have same probs with too dark rooms where you cant see nothing?

And most times its one room after another where tou go in and see just black nothing more. I tried to change calibration but even on max slider to left i cant see nothing in room like this.

Calibrate your screen. This image is not even that dark.

 

[scalman]

Calibrate your screen. This image is not even that dark.

I cant see nothing on that pic on any screen phone amoled or laptop or tv, you see there anything? Objects, doors? I tried calibrate in game setting i dont need gray color instead of black sorry. Again all other games are fine on same tv or same laptop screen.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

Lol what’s weird about not wanting to tank performance by 50-75% for a feature that typically adds subtle improvements?

I’ve noticed your position in this thread is unwavering. What exactly is hard to understand that some people dont think the massive performance impact is worth it?

It's not weird, it's false thanks to DLSS.

Btw, of course you are free to turn off ray tracing from your games, but saying that RT is useless is joke, an unfunny joke