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Analysis [DF] Elden Ring Beta: PS4 vs PS4 vs Xbox One/X Tested - What's The State of Last-Gen?

Roman Empire

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FromSoftware games were never the kings of peak performance, we should be used by now. At least I know the game will be good from my time with the network test, but I fear for blighttown all over again. I hate how we basically just have to brute force performance with power, at least on PC, in From games. Aside from some neat geometry in level design, and a lot of alpha transparency textures there isn't much to their game technically speaking (yes, and the buttload of animations).
 

Arioco

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4 is 25% more than 3.2. 6 is 43% more than 4.2. The X1X is underperforming (as is the base X1, it shouldn't need to have all those visual downgrades in addition to the lower resolution).


Again, why are taking into account the absolute minimum like One X version ran at fixed 1512p? In the worst case scenario (the dragon fight scene) One X is pushing "only" 25% more pixels, but in other scenes it can be up to 100% more pixels, and all the figures in between. And 100%, 80‰ or 50% are more that the 43% delta between 4.2 and 6.
 
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Bogroll

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For those who still think checkerboard solution is free/cheap, these slides are from Dark Souls remastered. PS4 PRO and X1X versions are 1800pCB and XboxOne X is 1800P native. Despite the very large difference in pixels compared to a native 1800P they only managed to save 27% (2.6 ms) of rendering time.

I'd rather have native 1440p than 1800p cb.
 

Panajev2001a

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i said from the start ...the only reason why series x perform worst is the famous technical incapability of the dev team
This results make some comments in the other thread obviously ridiculous
Glad to see we change our mind about the bulk of PS3 optimisation issues.

the simpsons adult GIF


Either we change the perception of PS3 architecture based on the ports or we admit PS5 SDK and tech made it easier for devs to help get optimisations done sooner and close the gap a bit… or somewhere in the middle ;).
 

Darsxx82

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Again, why are taking into account the absolute minimum like One X version ran at fixed 1512p? In the worst case scenario (the dragon fight scene) One X is pushing "only" 25% more pixels, but in other scenes it can be up to 100% more pixels, and all the figures in between. And 100%, 80‰ or 50% are more that the 43% delta between 4.2 and 6.
1512p is the lowest as 1800p only remains for when you look at the sky.

The reality in the end is that you have a clear degradation in the results in all XBOX versions compared to what was seen in Shekiro. Is that even the average framerate is worse despite the cut in resolution. While in all versions Playstation maintain the level and basic conditions. Even in loading times they are specially treated.
The case of XBO vs PS4 is already absurd and obscene compared to what was seen in Shekiro.
There is no reason to deny the evidence regarding what was seen in Shekiro.
 

Mr Moose

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1512p is the lowest as 1800p only remains for when you look at the sky.

The reality in the end is that you have a clear degradation in the results in all XBOX versions compared to what was seen in Shekiro. Is that even the average framerate is worse despite the cut in resolution. While in all versions Playstation maintain the level and basic conditions. Even in loading times they are specially treated.
The case of XBO vs PS4 is already absurd and obscene compared to what was seen in Shekiro.
There is no reason to deny the evidence regarding what was seen in Shekiro.
Sekiro isn't open world and runs like shit. This sometimes has 100% higher pixel count on One X, that's the reason. Both apparently have DRS with Pro being 1800p CB/DRS and One X being 1800p DRS.
Sekiro is also 1800p CB on Pro and 1800p on One X (100% pixel count higher again here, too), 1080p on PS4 and 900p on One, PS4 had higher quality shadows over Xbox One.

What evidence do you have about Sekiro? Are you thinking of a different game?
 

Lysandros

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Glad to see we change our mind about the bulk of PS3 optimisation issues.

the simpsons adult GIF


Either we change the perception of PS3 architecture based on the ports or we admit PS5 SDK and tech made it easier for devs to help get optimisations done sooner and close the gap a bit… or somewhere in the middle ;).
You mean 'gap' in a specific sense, as to difference in theoretical compute?
 
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Lysandros

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Sekiro isn't open world and runs like shit. This sometimes has 100% higher pixel count on One X, that's the reason. Both apparently have DRS with Pro being 1800p CB/DRS and One X being 1800p DRS.
Sekiro is also 1800p CB on Pro and 1800p on One X (100% pixel count higher again here, too), 1080p on PS4 and 900p on One, PS4 had higher quality shadows over Xbox One.

What evidence do you have about Sekiro? Are you thinking of a different game?
Right. But one must also take into account that rendering cost difference between 1800pCB and 1800P is generally around 25-30%.
 

Lysandros

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That 8.4 TF goodness!
That feature would be much more relevant with a higher bandwidth i think. I don't know what Sony were thinking in going with such an unbalanced compute/fillrate (64 ROPS!) to bandwidth ratio in PRO. I generally dislike it first for introducing mid-gen upgrade concept watering down Sony's own 'beloved belief in generations' second for its lack bandwidth and comically low clocks compared other systems using polaris as a base (partly due to lackluster cooling i guess). The machine should absolutely have 256 GB/s of bandwidth at least.

Edit: PS4 was so much superior/balanced in its design, one the reasons that it holds up so well even today, 8 years (!) later after its introduction.
 
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Darsxx82

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Sekiro isn't open world and runs like shit. This sometimes has 100% higher pixel count on One X, that's the reason. Both apparently have DRS with Pro being 1800p CB/DRS and One X being 1800p DRS.
Sekiro is also 1800p CB on Pro and 1800p on One X (100% pixel count higher again here, too), 1080p on PS4 and 900p on One, PS4 had higher quality shadows over Xbox One.

What evidence do you have about Sekiro? Are you thinking of a different game?
LOL.

Your argument of "it is an open world" falls by its own weight as that should also have affected in some visible way the performance of the Playstation versions compared to what was seen in Shekiro and it is the opposite ... It is no coincidence that it is only the Xbox versions that have seen performance degradation. XBO X which is more capable than PRo in all aspects. What's more, in any case it is PRo who would have suffered the most with the move to the open world.

Your argument is basically to make believe that suddenly the XBO X and XBO are less powerful than before or that PS4 and PRo are more powerful and therefore maintain the performance characteristics seen in Sekiro...🙃
The reality is that there is only one coherent explanation and it goes in the direction of inattention or lack of time to optimize. Maybe the Playstation versions are more advanced in the optimization process at this point? It is something that we will see in the final product but I doubt because Fromsoftware historial.

PS. In the analysis of DF no evidence of DRS cbr in Pro even in scenes where XBO X went down to 1512p. There is a long difference no matter how much it is denied. Not to mention that even with the cut in resolution that has not meant improving framerate compared to the PRo version, but the opposite.

PS2. It's funny because XBO X also had better shadows than PRO in Shekiro LOL. That is, the degradation is greater according to you?😅.
And without counting the issues of loading times that is a real indication of the difference in attention between versions.
 
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Mr Moose

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PS. In the analysis of DF no evidence of DRS cbr in Pro even in scenes where XBO X went down to 1512p. There is a long difference no matter how much it is denied. Not to mention that even with the cut in resolution that has not meant improving framerate compared to the PRo version, but the opposite.

PS2. It's funny because XBO X also had better shadows than PRO in Shekiro LOL. That is, the degradation is greater according to you?😅.
And without counting the issues of loading times that is a real indication of the difference in attention between versions.

Take it up with Tom.
And I said the PS4 version has better shadows than the One version, not the Pro shadows v One X...
 

Darsxx82

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Take it up with Tom.
And I said the PS4 version has better shadows than the One version, not the Pro shadows v One X...

LOL . There is no evidence of DRS in PRo at the most demanding moment where XBO X drops to 1512p. If you do not see meaning in that data, it is that you simply do not want to.

Then, correct, you only mentioned better shadows in PS4 version than XBO to support your argument. The funny thing is that you "" forget "" mention that XBO X also had better shadows than the PRO version, so you are adding another aspect to add to the clear and obvious performance degradation in XBO X compared to what was seen in Shekiro compared to PRo.😉
 

Mr Moose

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LOL . There is no evidence of DRS in PRo at the most demanding moment where XBO X drops to 1512p. If you do not see meaning in that data, it is that you simply do not want to.

Then, correct, you only mentioned better shadows in PS4 version than XBO to support your argument. The funny thing is that you "" forget "" mention that XBO X also had better shadows than the PRO version, so you are adding another aspect to add to the clear and obvious performance degradation in XBO X compared to what was seen in Shekiro compared to PRo.😉
Sekiro runs like shit, it also runs better on the Pro.
Anyway like I said before, we should wait for VGTech for the pixel counts.
 
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Md Ray

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That feature would be much more relevant with a higher bandwidth i think. I don't know what Sony were thinking in going with such an unbalanced compute/fillrate (64 ROPS!) to bandwidth ratio in PRO. I generally dislike it first for introducing mid-gen upgrade concept watering down Sony's own 'beloved belief in generations' second for its lack bandwidth and comically low clocks compared other systems using polaris as a base (partly due to lackluster cooling i guess). The machine should absolutely have 256 GB/s of bandwidth at least.
That and boosting the total RAM available to game devs by just 0.5 GB clearly wasn't enough as some games had lower texture quality on Pro than the X1X version. I'm sure they knew, Cerny certainly knew its limitations. In fact, he said this in a Japanese interview:
"If you're rendering natively in 4K, it's a personal estimate, but you'll need at least 8TFLOPS (FP32),"


But at the end of the day, they had to launch it at the same price as the base PS4's launch price, so compromises had to be made while introducing smart rendering techniques to achieve IQ close to 4K.
 
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Darsxx82

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Sekiro runs like shit, it also runs better on the Pro.
And???
How Shekiro run is secondary in the discussion. The important thing is how it performed on each platform and the comparison with Elder beta.
What it shows is that in the Playstation versions they have maintained all the performance characteristics while the XBOX versions have seen a clear and evident degradation ..... Unless you tell us that the XBOX consoles have lost power along the way while PRo and PS4 are more powerful (ridiculous thing), the coherent reason will point to the less attention or optimization time (in the beta at least) on Xbox platforms. ..
 

Mr Moose

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And???
How Shekiro run is secondary in the discussion. The important thing is how it performed on each platform and the comparison with Elder beta.
What it shows is that in the Playstation versions they have maintained all the performance characteristics while the XBOX versions have seen a clear and evident degradation ..... Unless you tell us that the XBOX consoles have lost power along the way while PRo and PS4 are more powerful (ridiculous thing), the coherent reason will point to the less attention or optimization time (in the beta at least) on Xbox platforms. ..
Let's just wait for the VGTech pixel counts, shall we? If the Pro has DRS lower bounds the same as the One X while using CB, that will explain everything here.
 

Darsxx82

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Let's just wait for the VGTech pixel counts, shall we? If the Pro has DRS lower bounds the same as the One X while using CB, that will explain everything here.
First. I doubt that VGtech is going to do analysis of the XBO X/S and PS4/Pro versions and more in the case of a beta network. Surely yes for XSeries-PS5.

Second, it is not necessary when you already have examples in the DF analysis where XBO X drops to 1512p while PRO maintains 1800p CBR ..... Unless now the argument has gone on to question and doubt DF 😉
 

Mr Moose

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First. I doubt that VGtech is going to do analysis of the XBO X/S and PS4/Pro versions and more in the case of a beta network. Surely yes for XSeries-PS5.

Second, it is not necessary when you already have examples in the DF analysis where XBO X drops to 1512p while PRO maintains 1800p CBR ..... Unless now the argument has gone on to question and doubt DF 😉
I've already said I don't trust Tom, the dude is blind and wrong a lot.*
Why wouldn't a demanding area drop on the Pro, too? Does Tom say it stays at 1800p CB on the Pro?

* https://www.neogaf.com/threads/df-e...ate-of-last-gen.1624635/page-2#post-265112759
 
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Lysandros

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It appears that i missed Tom's now iconic teraflops reference on first view. His broad knowledge on console hardware continues to impress.
 

Lysandros

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That and boosting the total RAM available to game devs by just 0.5 GB clearly wasn't enough as some games had lower texture quality on Pro than the X1X version. I'm sure they knew, Cerny certainly knew its limitations. In fact, he said this in a Japanese interview:



But at the end of the day, they had to launch it at the same price as the base PS4's launch price, so compromises had to be made while introducing smart rendering techniques to achieve IQ close to 4K.
Indeed. Personally i find the chase for 4K to be very detrimental to graphic complexity and advancement in the first place. This is the reason why i considered the machine somewhat unnecessary.
 
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Darsxx82

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I've already said I don't trust Tom, the dude is blind and wrong a lot.*
Why wouldn't a demanding area drop on the Pro, too? Does Tom say it stays at 1800p CB on the Pro?

* https://www.neogaf.com/threads/df-e...ate-of-last-gen.1624635/page-2#post-265112759
No more than some other and not for that reason we have to think that they are always wrong .....
If your base now is that "I don't believe in DF", I don't know what is already being discussed because it is the only reliable analysis we have and based on it we all argue and express our opinion regarding what might be happening.
That said, it may be the smartest and reasonable thing to wait for February as it is not a final product.
 

onQ123

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For those who still think checkerboard solution is free/cheap, these slides are from Dark Souls remastered. PS4 PRO and X1X versions are 1800pCB and XboxOne X is 1800P native. Despite the very large difference in pixels compared to a 'native' 1800P (%100) they only managed to save 27% (2.6 ms) of rendering time.


Edit: This is why i dislike statements like "is pushing twice the number of pixels" when one machine use 1800pCB and the other 1800P in a game. This is quite far from the truth on processing cost and IQ basis. If a game is 1600x1800 in one machine and 3200x1800 on the other using simple upscale now we could talk about 'twice number of pixels pushed' since performance cost and IQ difference would be much higher.

I blame Digital Foundry they tried so hard to downplay PS4 Pro for using CB that they mudded the water & had people thinking it's actually half the resolution.
 

Md Ray

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Indeed. Personally i find the chase for 4K to be very detrimental to graphic complexity and advancement in the first place. This is the reason why i considered the machine somewhat unnecessary.
Same here! I find Naughty Dog's approach to be so much better. They just straight up render at 1440p rather than wasting resources chasing 4K, their TAA is very good, so it doesn't look too bad on a 4K display. This means they're able to put the GPU to good use by increasing graphics complexity, run physics, AI and whatnot on the graphics hardware.
 
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Lysandros

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Same here! I find Naughty Dog's approach to be so much better. They just straight up render at 1440p instead of wasting resources chasing 4K, their TAA is very good, so it doesn't look too bad on a 4K display. This means they're able to put the GPU to good use by increasing graphics complexity, run physics, AI and whatnot on the graphics hardware.
That's certainly one way of doing it. Now imagine what they could do targeting 1080P on a native 1080P screen with no loss of crispness with substantially more resources available. Honestly 4K TVs dealt a heavy blow to graphic complexity in the sake of useless vanity mostly.
 
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3liteDragon

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Same here! I find Naughty Dog's approach to be so much better. They just straight up render at 1440p rather than wasting resources chasing 4K, their TAA is very good, so it doesn't look too bad on a 4K display. This means they're able to put the GPU to good use by increasing graphics complexity, run physics, AI and whatnot on the graphics hardware.
TLOU2 was native 1440p with TAA on PS4 Pro & native 1080p with TAA on the base PS4 & it had a crisp IQ imo.