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[DF] Forza Horizon 5 Tech Analysis: An Xbox Series X Masterpiece

Kilau

Member
Plays great on my laptop so far, 4k with ultra quality scaling. It turned on ray tracing to high but I turned that crap off lol.
 
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.

surely mods have seen...

the rock wtf GIF
 
Xbox One X needs a performance mode.
Make it 40fps, 45fps, or just completely unlocked. Why bother putting VRR in your console if you're not going to let owners make use of it.
For One X gamers, FH5 is a giant step backwards from FH4.
as a sad one x owner i wont be going back to 30fps just to play fh5 now....ill definately wait till i get a series x...after the glorious 60fps of fh4 i aint going back.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
While I think FH5 looks stunning, I agree with you on principle. He is gonna do the same thing for Horizon FW, get swept up in the hype and praise it to high heaven making it sound like a true next gen showpiece when we all know the game will look outdated the moment next gen only games like Avatar drop.
There is no conspiracy, FH5 + forbidden west are next gen showcases, which is why John is saying they are.

I will say I do wonder about johns and alex's expetise on what "next gen" visuals will be.

I remember from the PS5 launch event, Alex was praising oddworlds physics destruction as something "next gen" when it turned out that game and its destruction was the same on the PS4 version.
Somtimes they dont realise that new techniques will be created, which will enable things which just are not possible on old techniques.
 
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this needs a 1440p mode with 60fps target and max settings.

I just played it on PC (Ryzen 5600X, 3060ti) at 1440p, 4x MSAA and everything else to the absolute max... it runs between 63 and 105 fps so far
I've been shouting this in every Forza thread. Makes ZERO sense that they didn't include a 1440/ultra-ish/60 fps mode!

Everyone's jumping down the guy who made the Death Stranding comparison comment but you all are conveniently ignoring his first paragraph:

How is this a Series X "masterpiece" when its simply scaling very linearly over the One X version? Just like almost every other game this generation, devs are simply increasing frames and resolution over the last gen versions and calling it a day. Death Stranding is one of the few games to get a next gen version that went above and beyond and actually increased other settings outside of just resolution and fps.

If FH5 Series X version in performance mode is basically the same as the One X just at 60 fps how is that not disappointing? We are on rdna 2, massively boosted terraflops, cpu, memory etc yet games are just not showing it on these consoles. Whatever happened to the days of consoles punching above their weight? PC is kicking our ass. Your telling me devs couldn't implement some similar settings as PC like 4x msaa? We're not even getting 16x AF in most games still.
 

sinnergy

Member
I've been shouting this in every Forza thread. Makes ZERO sense that they didn't include a 1440/ultra-ish/60 fps mode!

Everyone's jumping down the guy who made the Death Stranding comparison comment but you all are conveniently ignoring his first paragraph:

How is this a Series X "masterpiece" when its simply scaling very linearly over the One X version? Just like almost every other game this generation, devs are simply increasing frames and resolution over the last gen versions and calling it a day. Death Stranding is one of the few games to get a next gen version that went above and beyond and actually increased other settings outside of just resolution and fps.

If FH5 Series X version in performance mode is basically the same as the One X just at 60 fps how is that not disappointing? We are on rdna 2, massively boosted terraflops, cpu, memory etc yet games are just not showing it on these consoles. Whatever happened to the days of consoles punching above their weight? PC is kicking our ass. Your telling me devs couldn't implement some similar settings as PC like 4x msaa? We're not even getting 16x AF in most games still.
Man you are salty …
 

Kagey K

Member
I've been shouting this in every Forza thread. Makes ZERO sense that they didn't include a 1440/ultra-ish/60 fps mode!

Everyone's jumping down the guy who made the Death Stranding comparison comment but you all are conveniently ignoring his first paragraph:

How is this a Series X "masterpiece" when its simply scaling very linearly over the One X version? Just like almost every other game this generation, devs are simply increasing frames and resolution over the last gen versions and calling it a day. Death Stranding is one of the few games to get a next gen version that went above and beyond and actually increased other settings outside of just resolution and fps.

If FH5 Series X version in performance mode is basically the same as the One X just at 60 fps how is that not disappointing? We are on rdna 2, massively boosted terraflops, cpu, memory etc yet games are just not showing it on these consoles. Whatever happened to the days of consoles punching above their weight? PC is kicking our ass. Your telling me devs couldn't implement some similar settings as PC like 4x msaa? We're not even getting 16x AF in most games still.

 

DaGwaphics

Member
FH5 looks very good on the 1X. it compares quite well to the next gen versions, you are getting better image quality then the seriesS which is nice.

Most are saying that the environment is far more detailed in quality mode on Series S than what is offered on 1X.
 

SlimySnake

Member
If FH5 Series X version in performance mode is basically the same as the One X just at 60 fps how is that not disappointing? We are on rdna 2, massively boosted terraflops, cpu, memory etc yet games are just not showing it on these consoles. Whatever happened to the days of consoles punching above their weight? PC is kicking our ass. Your telling me devs couldn't implement some similar settings as PC like 4x msaa? We're not even getting 16x AF in most games still.
So the jump in IPC gains from the x1x to xsx is only 25%. That means the 12 tflops XSX is roughly around 15 Polaris tflops. We have seen in other games that going to 60 fps requires more than 2x the tflops. Hell, you mentioned Death stranding and it really struggles during some cutscenes and boss fights and sits around 50 fps at native 4k. By your logic, the 13 polaris tflops PS5 should be able to do native 4k 60 fps when the 4.2 tflops PS4 Pro was doing 4kcb at 30 fps. Thats a 3x boost in tflops but a less than 2x increase in performance.

Also, the x1x had 360 GBps of bandwidth. The xsx has 560 but its more of a 1.5x boost in bandwidth. Maybe when doubling the framerate at 4k, you need more than just 2x the tflops?

And equivalent PCs are not outperforming consoles. We have seen this in Death Stranding. We have seen this in other games. Console GPUs are roughly on par with their PC counterparts.
 
Okay, I just finished watching this. What in the hell are they putting in the water over at Playground Games? That environmental and atmospheric detail in this game is downright psycho in the best way imaginable. How in the hell are they getting it all to look that good on such a massive scale? Whoever hasn't watched this video, just go look at those environments on your 4KTV.
 
The game looks stunning, no doubt about it. It's very probably the best looking racer currently on consoles.

But I am getting tired about DF explaining any stunning Xbox game as a astonishing hardware achievement and any stunning Playstation game because the developers are talented.
 

JLB

Member
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.
If You Say So Eye Roll GIF by Women's History Month
 

Gediminas

Banned
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.
:messenger_ok:
 

G-DannY

Member
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.
keep fighting hard, soldier

we salute you
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.
TLW ....

Is that you....
 

Thebonehead

Gold Member
Playing the Porsche Jungle section in the intro took me back to playing Outrun for the first time ( With Magical sound shower ).

It was a real kickback to that time of arcade pleasure - Great gameplay, graphics and sound
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I'm just going to leave this video here for those embarrassing themselves with 1X comparisons. LOL

The first 30 seconds should do the trick.


Short version, the 1X is not running 1:1 with XSX FPS mode, it's in the ballpark but not there in some noticable ways. Makes all the contortion kind of pointless.
 
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01011001

Member
Death Stranding is one of the few games to get a next gen version that went above and beyond and actually increased other settings outside of just resolution and fps.

I am almost 100% certain that Death Stranding literally is just PS4 Pro settings running at native 4K [quality] / 1800p [performance] (although Digital Foundry thinks it is not native res but uses some form of reconstruction that is different than PS4 Pro's checkerboarding tho, due to the softness of the final image)

edit: ok googled it, they sliiiightly increased LOD detail at a distance... that's all they changed in terms of graphics, everything else is 1 to 1 PS4 Pro settings apparently
 
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01011001

Member
Is it the same engine as FH3 and FH4? As, can I expect the same perfs on my 1070?

the 1070 is the recommended card I think. so 1080p at around ultra should be doable, and at 1440p maybe turn down some settings and you will be good I bet.
It runs extremely well on my RTX3060ti at max settings, 1440p, 4x MSAA. haven't dropped below 60 yet and often hang around 80fps with occasional dips to the mid 60s and spikes to the high 90s or even slightly above 100fps when nothing is around

CPU should not be an issue either, my Ryzen 5600X is at around 34% CPU usage during a race.
 
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elliot5

Member
the 1070 is the recommended card I think. so 1080p at around ultra should be doable, and at 1440p maybe turn down some settings and you will be good I bet.
It runs extremely well on my RTX3060ti at max settings, 1440p, 4x MSAA. haven't dropped below 60 yet and often hang around 80fps with occasional dips to the mid 60s and spikes to the high 90s or even slightly above 100fps when nothing is around

CPU should not be an issue either, my Ryzen 5600X is at around 34% CPU usage during a race.
Nice you have the same build as I do and I might dl it on my PC too too get high frames at max settings
 

01011001

Member
Nice you have the same build as I do and I might dl it on my PC too too get high frames at max settings

yeah, and the raytracing in Forza Vista is surprisingly light weight. I am literally at 100+fps whenever I am modifying my car (during which Raytracing is active)... that is surprising given how extremely high quality they made it.
the reflections have at least 2 bounces, maybe even 3... you can see the reflection of the side mirror in the window of the car, and on that reflection of the side mirror you will see the reflection of the room, all at full resolution and zero ghosting.

I wonder if GTX10 series cards can activate raytracing in this game... because I would love to see how it would run on the GTX1070 or 1080. sadly many games block the GTX10 series cards from RT features even tho they support it driver side.
would be interesting if someone here has a GTX10 series card and can test this, just for the hell of it.

edit: just looked it up, sadly they lock it out for 10 series cards... sad... I was really curious
 
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elliot5

Member
yeah, and the raytracing in Forza Vista is surprisingly light weight. I am literally at 100+fps whenever I am modifying my car (during which Raytracing is active)... that is surprising given how extremely high quality they made it.
the reflections have at least 2 bounces, maybe even 3... you can see the reflection of the side mirror in the window of the car, and on that reflection of the side mirror you will see the reflection of the room, all at full resolution and zero ghosting.

I wonder if GTX10 series cards can activate raytracing in this game... because I would love to see how it would run on the GTX1070 or 1080. sadly many games block the GTX10 series cards from RT features even tho they support it driver side.
would be interesting if someone here has a GTX10 series card and can test this, just for the hell of it.

edit: just looked it up, sadly they lock it out for 10 series cards... sad... I was really curious
Nice. I haven't played Forza on my PC because I like it on the TV with HDR and all that but I guess I'll see how I feel about max settings at... 30 fps lols
 
Man seeing the start of that video two things came to mind -
  • RIDGE RACCCEEEEERRRR!
  • I miss Kudos and PGR, only to realise FH series is the evolution of what PGR started.
 

01011001

Member
Nice. I haven't played Forza on my PC because I like it on the TV with HDR and all that but I guess I'll see how I feel about max settings at... 30 fps lols

the game has a dynamic resolution setting (which is brand new for Forza) so you can set it to that and see how it goes I guess.
 

Mr Moose

Member
I am almost 100% certain that Death Stranding literally is just PS4 Pro settings running at native 4K [quality] / 1800p [performance] (although Digital Foundry thinks it is not native res but uses some form of reconstruction that is different than PS4 Pro's checkerboarding tho, due to the softness of the final image)

edit: ok googled it, they sliiiightly increased LOD detail at a distance... that's all they changed in terms of graphics, everything else is 1 to 1 PS4 Pro settings apparently
They updated the water.
I'm just going to leave this video here for those embarrassing themselves with 1X comparisons. LOL

The first 30 seconds should do the trick.


Short version, the 1X is not running 1:1 with XSX FPS mode, it's in the ballpark but not there in some noticable ways. Makes all the contortion kind of pointless.
Forza Horizon has been one of the best looking racers since as far as I remember (since at least 2013). Very talented studio, they make the Motorsport team look like a B-team studio (graphics-wise).
 
I'm just going to leave this video here for those embarrassing themselves with 1X comparisons. LOL

The first 30 seconds should do the trick.


Short version, the 1X is not running 1:1 with XSX FPS mode, it's in the ballpark but not there in some noticable ways. Makes all the contortion kind of pointless.
Where are those noticeable differences? I just compared a few of those Xbox One X 30fps vs XSX 60fps comparisons and I can't see any noticeable differences between both. Like DF stated they seem to be very similar.

Are you sure you are not mistaking the versions (as there are so much)?
 

poodaddy

Gold Member
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.
Ultimate Warrior Wrestling GIF by WWE
 

Banjo64

Gold Member
I am sorry but this game is not a "XSX masterpiece" as they put it here (meaning masterpiece only on XSX / XSS). Let me explain:

According to John XSX (1600p-4k 60fps) gives you basically the X1X (1600p-4k 30fps) game at double framerate.



So there is actually no improvement from newer RDNA2 technology, only linear improvement 1x from GCN to RDNA2. XSX is equivalent to 12 GCN Tflops.

I say it's disappointing because when we look at for instance Death Stranding on PS5 (exclusive console / PC, like FH5), the game on PS5 at native 4K 60fps (10.2tf) pushes 4x more stuff than Pro 4K CBR 30fps (4.2tf), for about the same performance according to the analysis that was done in the NXGamer thread. So PS5 would be the equivalent of 16.8 GCN tflops. There is a 1.6x improvement from GCN Tflops to PS5 RDNA2 Tflops. We find about the same 1.6x improvement if we use PS4 (1080p 30fps) as a baseline.

Now how does John describe this game related to the Xbox Series X hardware?

So basically according to him the game is what it is mainly because of XSX hardware. I am sorry but that's objectively false. FH5 is absolutely not a XSX masterpiece (if because of XSX). You can say it is a Xbox masterpiece and the XSX simply inherited about the game state of technology.

How did John describe Death Stranding performance on PS5 compared to the hardware?

You see the difference? No superlatives adjectives "astonishing showcase" here. "The version is excellent...improved over PS4" and they are not suprised about the big (almost odd) performance improvement compared to PS4 family of hardware. But we could say however that Death Stranding is a PS5 masterpiece in that it shows the true power of the PS5 RDNA2 hardware compared to PS4 family of hardware.
This has got to be a new pasta :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

RPS37

Member
I must be in a minority but I really don’t think I care about another Horizon game, regardless of how pretty everyone claims it is.
I own like three of them and never really got that far in any of them.
 
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