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[Shmunter]

Ironically regarding Series S, gamers should be thankful at each instance when it is missing features that are being delivered on X.

It means the devs spent the time to actually do some extra work on the full console as opposed to just building for S and treating X like a pro console leaving it to brute force the game without any extra effort.

Not all devs will follow this path, especially if S continues to become the dominant sku. The caveat being combined with the single PS5 target means 3rd party still have the high watermark install base to gun for more so than not.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[DarkMage619]

 

[Ristifer]

I don’t wanna read all this annoying shit, so just play GotG because it’s a good game.

 

[Kerotan]

what a terrible comparisson out of 15min he managed to show XSX version only 2 times while PS5 takes majority of time.
i don't know maybe it's me.. but it seems DF doesn't like to show or compare XSX for some reason while it's considered most powerful console it should be main reference point for comparissons such like these.

Probably the console with the most sales is the reference point as it's most relevant to the viewer. Ps5 is top dog.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Were are the "plays best on XSX"?

In most cases? Especially with a VRR TV. Overall it's not a huge difference though, normal people literally can't see it.

or "True 4K"?

That was a lie on both consoles. Although Xbox has way more true 4K games due to BC alone.

, what about the 12TF of power of the worlds "most powerful" console?

What about it?

Were is the 30% gab between the 2 consoles?

Why 30%? Your math is off.

So far in all new games, it's the XSX that didn't showed anything mightblowing over the PS5.

Why would it? There's a theoretical 18% power gap between the two. We're still in the cross-gen phase where games are built for an 18 CU PS4 as the lead hardware. Unless you're traumatized from FUD, you wouldn't expect any mindblowing differences.

In fact the PS5 showed that it is outperforming the XSX in more areas then only "resolution".

Nope.

Imo, PS fans have the right to laugh hard at you guys, after all that shit from last year.

I get it, you're traumatized. Grow up and get over it.

 

[Snake29]

In most cases? Especially with a VRR TV. Overall it's not a huge difference though, normal people literally can't see it.

That was a lie on both consoles. Although Xbox has way more true 4K games due to BC alone.

What about it?

Why 30%? Your math is off.

Why would it? There's a theoretical 18% power gap between the two. We're still in the cross-gen phase where games are built for an 18 CU PS4 as the lead hardware. Unless you're traumatized from FUD, you wouldn't expect any mindblowing differences.

Nope.

I get it, you're traumatized. Grow up and get over it.

Nop, you guys keep lying about everything as if it never happened last year. We can easily show these threads again, and how arrogant and hyperbolic most xbox fans were of the year before launch about the power narrative in general.

The only thing i see you guys doing is trying to ignore if it never happened. Traumatised? No i see xbox fanboys trying to search for these "answers".

In most cases? Especially with a VRR TV. Overall it's not a huge difference though, normal people literally can't see it.

It shows that the Xbox console itself isn't capable at all. It needs help of a external device to mask these imperfections. People without VRR tv's won't have the same experience.

That was a lie on both consoles. Although Xbox has way more true 4K games due to BC alone.

These BC titles are based on previous gen consoles. And if BC is an indication, then you're really stupid. Almost all next-gen console games have dynamic res...nothing "true 4K" about the XSX.

what about the 12TF of power of the worlds "most powerful" console?

The console would show big differences from the start based on what some GAF members said back then and their insiders. Do we need to wait another year for it?

It's not showing anything...

I can react on every part of your post, but you and others know it, But all you guys are doing is shifting the narrative and especially continuing to justify it.

Clearly, the xbox community did not expect the PS5 to do so well with next-gen titles.

 

[Bogroll]

Nop, you guys keep lying about everything as if it never happened last year. We can easily show these threads again, and how arrogant and hyperbolic most xbox fans were of the year before launch about the power narrative in general.

The only thing i see you guys doing is trying to ignore if it never happened. Traumatised? No i see xbox fanboys trying to search for these "answers".



It shows that the Xbox console itself isn't capable at all. It needs help of a external device to mask these imperfections. People without VRR tv's won't have the same experience.



These BC titles are based on previous gen consoles. And if BC is an indication, then you're really stupid. Almost all next-gen console games have dynamic res...nothing "true 4K" about the XSX.



The console would show big differences from the start based on what some GAF members said back then and their insiders. Do we need to wait another year for it?

It's not showing anything...

I can react on every part of your post, but you and others know it, But all you guys are doing is shifting the narrative and especially continuing to justify it.

Clearly, the xbox community did not expect the PS5 to do so well with next-gen titles.

Even one of your leaders said they expect the XSX to be ahead (not by much though)as the gen moves on.

Not my opinion btw. I'll wait and see.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Nop, you guys keep lying about everything as if it never happened last year. We can easily show these threads again, and how arrogant and hyperbolic most xbox fans were of the year before launch about the power narrative in general.

The only thing i see you guys doing is trying to ignore if it never happened. Traumatised? No i see xbox fanboys trying to search for these "answers".



It shows that the Xbox console itself isn't capable at all. It needs help of a external device to mask these imperfections. People without VRR tv's won't have the same experience.



These BC titles are based on previous gen consoles. And if BC is an indication, then you're really stupid. Almost all next-gen console games have dynamic res...nothing "true 4K" about the XSX.



The console would show big differences from the start based on what some GAF members said back then and their insiders. Do we need to wait another year for it?

It's not showing anything...

I can react on every part of your post, but you and others know it, But all you guys are doing is shifting the narrative and especially continuing to justify it.

Clearly, the xbox community did not expect the PS5 to do so well with next-gen titles.

I see you're still hurting from the FUD. Take your time to recover.

Just for the record, I expected the PS5 to do almost exactly as it is doing now. I underestimated the cross-gen impact a bit, so PS5 is punching very slightly above its weight compared to what I expected, but that's about it.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Clearly, the xbox community did not expect the PS5 to do so well with next-gen titles.

What next gen titles? Pretty much everything has been cross gen.

 

[tommib]

 

[xHunter]

I get it, you're traumatized. Grow up and get over it.

Strong words coming for them guy that got so triggered by all the craig memes, that he had to change his avatar 3 times to troll playstation games.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Strong words coming for them guy that got so triggered by all the craig memes, that he had to change his avatar 3 times to troll playstation games.

No need to feel shame if you like them chubby.

 

[PropellerEar]

No need to feel shame if you like them chubby.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yes please.

Women don't have to suffer from acute anorexia to look good. Aloy is fine the way she is.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

 

[xHunter]

 

[Bernd Lauert]

 

[FrankWza]

Either there is some really weak trolling and antagonising going on or someone can't read.

I let it go because it’s not even fair at this point. But it’s really unfair to the developers that have to work harder to deliver games and to us that purchased the lead consoles. This is further proof that the s takes a lot more work than just sliding, switching, scaling and 2 button presses or whatever else people imagined in order for games to be delivered. Coupled with the halo feature being left out, it’s obvious that even extra time and funding doesn’t make it easy since that’s a first party game.

 

[Dodkrake]

Also all the RDNA2 features haven't been used yet, two of them not once.

Please define RDNA 2 features.

 

[Riky]

Please define RDNA 2 features.

A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture - Xbox Wire

We here at Team Xbox would like to congratulate and celebrate our amazing partners at AMD on today’s announcement of the Radeon RX 6000 Series of RDNA 2 GPUs. It was incredible to see AMD demonstrate the power and potential that the new AMD RDNA 2 architecture can deliver to gamers around the...

news.xbox.com

 

[FrankWza]

Please define RDNA 2 features.

You’re falling for an old ruse. You’re being distracted from the subject of Ray tracing and how it performs on all 3 next gen consoles.

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

This thread is a shit show.

Since it's so far off topic I will add that unlike FF7 Remake this Square Enix game is actually really great on PC (on Nvidia cards at least - no clue about AMD).

As well as the RT running better even just playing 1080p on a 2070s, no DLSS, no RT but without the lower settings of the console 60fps mode the lowest I could get the level that dropped as low as 45fps on PS5 (in the first DF video) to go was 63fps and it averaged 97fps over the level. It doesn't look like much has changed so if you have something with DLSS I think it will perform better than the consoles as long as your CPU isn't ancient.

If you're ok with 30fps the console RT mode looks decent.

 

[Dodkrake]

A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture - Xbox Wire

We here at Team Xbox would like to congratulate and celebrate our amazing partners at AMD on today’s announcement of the Radeon RX 6000 Series of RDNA 2 GPUs. It was incredible to see AMD demonstrate the power and potential that the new AMD RDNA 2 architecture can deliver to gamers around the...

news.xbox.com

Mesh Shaders (Microsoft patented tech)

• As this is a Microsoft Patented tech (Nvidia has similarly named tech), it wouldn't be in use by Sony. Sony features their own tech stack in the form of Primitive Shaders (which are not the same as AMD's own tech for Primitive shaders)
• Further mention of Shader patents by Sony, which may very well and are likely included in the PS5 itself. Another
• AMD RDNA2 paper on Instruction Set Architecture mentioning Primitives. No mention on Meshes.

Sampler Feedback (Microsoft patented tech)

• You are again under the assumption that Sony would be using a Microsoft patented tech, while assuming they don't have any replacement themselves. Also, Unity 5 achieves this in engine, for example, which indicates game engines can govern this type of granularity without the requirement for a piece of hardware.

Variable Rate Shading

• Microsoft has a patent on the subject
• Mark Cery has a patent on the subject
• The main benefit of "tier 2" VRS (hardware) is granularity

Your problem is you assume "X tech is not in use" therefore "results are schewed". This is not an accurate assumption, as one company works with a more broad API (Direct X) while the other works with a proprietary API (Playstation API). AMD partnered with Microsoft both on a Hardware and Software level to ensure that their GPUs are Direct X friendly (and even share some architecture similarities). The XBox APU uses more readily available tech, while the PS5 APU uses more custom tech.

If you had read your own article, you could have figured out that Sony could have NEVER had a "Full RDNA 2" APU simply because of patented tech (unless they want to pay MS). I'll emphasize a key sentence.

Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today.

AMD themselves describes the Xbox and PS5 as RDNA 2.

Finally, because this conversation is stale, if your assumption (which you have yet to prove) is that "game doesn't use certain RNDA 2 technologies", then you can equally assume that the same game doesn't use certain Sony custom technologies that have been designed to replace / compete with / surpass other available techs.

The likelyhood is that both APIs are not being fully explored by third party devs yet simply because it takes time + effort to optimize for multiple systems using different targeted versions of the same APIs. And this doesn't detract from the fact that the Series S version of the game is poor.

/off topic

You’re falling for an old ruse. You’re being distracted from the subject of Ray tracing and how it performs on all 3 next gen consoles.

I'm aware. I'm also aware that Riky said, 1 year ago, that the Series S would be competing with the PS5. I'm still waiting for that competition when the former can't even Ray Trace on this game.

 

[Riky]

Mesh Shaders (Microsoft patented tech)

• As this is a Microsoft Patented tech (Nvidia has similarly named tech), it wouldn't be in use by Sony. Sony features their own tech stack in the form of Primitive Shaders (which are not the same as AMD's own tech for Primitive shaders)
• Further mention of Shader patents by Sony, which may very well and are likely included in the PS5 itself. Another
• AMD RDNA2 paper on Instruction Set Architecture mentioning Primitives. No mention on Meshes.

Sampler Feedback (Microsoft patented tech)

• You are again under the assumption that Sony would be using a Microsoft patented tech, while assuming they don't have any replacement themselves. Also, Unity 5 achieves this in engine, for example, which indicates game engines can govern this type of granularity without the requirement for a piece of hardware.

Variable Rate Shading

• Microsoft has a patent on the subject
• Mark Cery has a patent on the subject
• The main benefit of "tier 2" VRS (hardware) is granularity

Your problem is you assume "X tech is not in use" therefore "results are schewed". This is not an accurate assumption, as one company works with a more broad API (Direct X) while the other works with a proprietary API (Playstation API). AMD partnered with Microsoft both on a Hardware and Software level to ensure that their GPUs are Direct X friendly (and even share some architecture similarities). The XBox APU uses more readily available tech, while the PS5 APU uses more custom tech.

If you had read your own article, you could have figured out that Sony could have NEVER had a "Full RDNA 2" APU simply because of patented tech (unless they want to pay MS). I'll emphasize a key sentence.



AMD themselves describes the Xbox and PS5 as RDNA 2.

Finally, because this conversation is stale, if your assumption (which you have yet to prove) is that "game doesn't use certain RNDA 2 technologies", then you can equally assume that the same game doesn't use certain Sony custom technologies that have been designed to replace / compete with / surpass other available techs.

The likelyhood is that both APIs are not being fully explored by third party devs yet simply because it takes time + effort to optimize for multiple systems using different targeted versions of the same APIs. And this doesn't detract from the fact that the Series S version of the game is poor.

/off topic



I'm aware. I'm also aware that Riky said, 1 year ago, that the Series S would be competing with the PS5. I'm still waiting for that competition when the former can't even Ray Trace on this game.

Mesh Shaders, VRS and SFS are not exclusive to Microsoft, they have Vulkan support on Nvidia and AMD hardware.
What the joint statement says, notice the AMD logo at the top is that Series consoles are the only ones with AMDs hardware support for these, this would have had to go through legal and no denial from Sony.
Proof has been no Tier 2 VRS support on PS5 at all for any game, even Doom Eternal where the developer stated it wasn't present. Also confirmed by Digital Foundry.
Jason Ronald clearly stated that no games use SFS yet and he wouldn't expect to see any until 2022, it was only put into the GDK last summer.
As for Mesh Shaders Sony has their own version with Primitive Shaders in the Geometry Engine, if they are as performant or not is to be seen but we know that that term means less granular control in the pipeline.
Basically if it wasn't mentioned by Cerny in the road to PS5 which was pretty in depth it isn't there.
Also MS customized on top with filters for SFS and the cores for ML, so both are custom versions of RDNA2.

 

[Dodkrake]

Mesh Shaders, VRS and SFS are not exclusive to Microsoft, they have Vulkan support on Nvidia and AMD hardware.

Of course they are not, but the techs I mentioned are being used by AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft. Sony is using their own version. This is not hard, keep up.

What the joint statement says, notice the AMD logo at the top is that Series consoles are the only ones with AMDs hardware support for these, this would have had to go through legal and no denial from Sony.

They have hardware support because they use MS proprietary tech. It only makes sense (and is what I said). Sony doesn't need to deny truthful statements. But you should not deny that the PS5 is RDNA2.

Proof has been no Tier 2 VRS support on PS5 at all for any game, even Doom Eternal where the developer stated it wasn't present. Also confirmed by Digital Foundry.

Absurd statement. VRS Tier 2 in the Series consoles is a Microsoft Tech. It wouldn't feature in a Sony console. Second, I posted sources on Sony patents on their own implementation of VRS. Third, for all we know, Sony's own SDK deploys a form of VRS. Fourth, we don't have the Hardware whitepaper for the PS5 to understand what their custom geometry engine does. Fifth, VRS usage on Series games has been subpar at best.

Jason Ronald clearly stated that no games use SFS yet and he wouldn't expect to see any until 2022, it was only put into the GDK last summer.

Fantastic. Hope to see it in use.

As for Mesh Shaders Sony has their own version with Primitive Shaders in the Geometry Engine, if they are as performant or not is to be seen but we know that that term means less granular control in the pipeline.

Wrong. AMD's Primitive Shader tech is less granular than Mesh Shaders. Sony's Primitve Shader may or may not be. You need to stop speaking in absolutes when you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Basically if it wasn't mentioned by Cerny in the road to PS5 which was pretty in depth it isn't there.

False equivalence. Cerny did not deep dive in the whole tech stack. He went through it on a high level. Your argument is as valid as "Cerny didn't show the PS5 design on the Road to PS5, therefore the PS5 doesn't have a design".

Also MS customized on top with filters for SFS and the cores for ML, so both are custom versions of RDNA2.

Of course they are. Which doesn't detract from the fact that one console uses readily available and PC friendly APIs while the other has their own closed tech stack that is not cross platform. I can have an AMD graphics card with MS's VRS HW, but I can't have an AMD graphics card with Sony's custom Geometry Engine (which is not the same as the geometry engine in pretty much all graphics cards).

I know you get carried away by fancy names, they are shiny and pretty, but at the end of the day the only "failure" in this gen was that sony failed to call their "Geometry Engine" something like "Quantum Graphics Pipeline", and their API something like "Ultra Implementation Code". If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because you keep grasping at straws. The reality now, and it will be for the whole gen, is:

Some game engines will favour the PS5 and games will have better results there
Some game engines will favour the Series X and will have better results there
Some game engines will be almost like for like
XSX will sometimes have a resolution advantage
PS5 will sometimes have a texture fillrate and filtering advantage
XSS is a piece of garbage that cannot deliver a full next-gen experience and we're already seeing games with sub 600p sections.

Feel free to screenshot this and quote it one year from now - for the time being I'm still waiting to see all that miracle tech in place that will make the Series S close to the PS5 (as you said ~ 12 months ago).

Edit - Cerny didn't mention Machine Learning either. A lot of people said the PS5 didn't have it. And then reality bit them in the ass, again. https://gamerant.com/spider-man-miles-morales-muscles-machine-learning/

Im sorry, now i'm definitely ending off topic.

 

[adamsapple]

Spartan Thiiiiiiiiic thiiic 7

 

[Salty Pickle]

Mesh Shaders, VRS and SFS are not exclusive to Microsoft, they have Vulkan support on Nvidia and AMD hardware.
What the joint statement says, notice the AMD logo at the top is that Series consoles are the only ones with AMDs hardware support for these, this would have had to go through legal and no denial from Sony.
Proof has been no Tier 2 VRS support on PS5 at all for any game, even Doom Eternal where the developer stated it wasn't present. Also confirmed by Digital Foundry.
Jason Ronald clearly stated that no games use SFS yet and he wouldn't expect to see any until 2022, it was only put into the GDK last summer.
As for Mesh Shaders Sony has their own version with Primitive Shaders in the Geometry Engine, if they are as performant or not is to be seen but we know that that term means less granular control in the pipeline.
Basically if it wasn't mentioned by Cerny in the road to PS5 which was pretty in depth it isn't there.
Also MS customized on top with filters for SFS and the cores for ML, so both are custom versions of RDNA2.

Regarding mesh/primitive shaders, well we’ve seen the performance in the UE5 Matrix demo. And as of things right now they seem to perform equally..?

 

[Riky]

Of course they are not, but the techs I mentioned are being used by AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft. Sony is using their own version. This is not hard, keep up.



They have hardware support because they use MS proprietary tech. It only makes sense (and is what I said). Sony doesn't need to deny truthful statements. But you should not deny that the PS5 is RDNA2.



Absurd statement. VRS Tier 2 in the Series consoles is a Microsoft Tech. It wouldn't feature in a Sony console. Second, I posted sources on Sony patents on their own implementation of VRS. Third, for all we know, Sony's own SDK deploys a form of VRS. Fourth, we don't have the Hardware whitepaper for the PS5 to understand what their custom geometry engine does. Fifth, VRS usage on Series games has been subpar at best.



Fantastic. Hope to see it in use.



Wrong. AMD's Primitive Shader tech is less granular than Mesh Shaders. Sony's Primitve Shader may or may not be. You need to stop speaking in absolutes when you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about.



False equivalence. Cerny did not deep dive in the whole tech stack. He went through it on a high level. Your argument is as valid as "Cerny didn't show the PS5 design on the Road to PS5, therefore the PS5 doesn't have a design".



Of course they are. Which doesn't detract from the fact that one console uses readily available and PC friendly APIs while the other has their own closed tech stack that is not cross platform. I can have an AMD graphics card with MS's VRS HW, but I can't have an AMD graphics card with Sony's custom Geometry Engine (which is not the same as the geometry engine in pretty much all graphics cards).

I know you get carried away by fancy names, they are shiny and pretty, but at the end of the day the only "failure" in this gen was that sony failed to call their "Geometry Engine" something like "Quantum Graphics Pipeline", and their API something like "Ultra Implementation Code". If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because you keep grasping at straws. The reality now, and it will be for the whole gen, is:

Some game engines will favour the PS5 and games will have better results there
Some game engines will favour the Series X and will have better results there
Some game engines will be almost like for like
XSX will sometimes have a resolution advantage
PS5 will sometimes have a texture fillrate and filtering advantage
XSS is a piece of garbage that cannot deliver a full next-gen experience and we're already seeing games with sub 600p sections.

Feel free to screenshot this and quote it one year from now - for the time being I'm still waiting to see all that miracle tech in place that will make the Series S close to the PS5 (as you said ~ 12 months ago).

Edit - Cerny didn't mention Machine Learning either. A lot of people said the PS5 didn't have it. And then reality bit them in the ass, again. https://gamerant.com/spider-man-miles-morales-muscles-machine-learning/

Im sorry, now i'm definitely ending off topic.

Sony is using their own version that they didn't mention in the Road To PS5 and that DF said doesn't exist. Maybe they should have told id about it since they wanted to use it on Doom Eternal, since id have development kits and all the accompanying literature and they said it doesn't support it I would say it doesn't support it. Sony probably deemed it not a worthwhile use of their silicon budget. Software emulations are available at an overhead and quality cost after all.

I don't "deny" PS5 is RDNA2, quite the opposite in fact, AMD decide what is RDNA2 as it is their technology, they say both consoles are RDNA2, that settles it for me.
It is not MS tech though, the features mentioned in the joint statement are present on AMD RDNA2 cards, nothing to do with Microsoft and can also use APIs nothing to do with Microsoft. It's AMD tech.

Tier 2 VRS is not a Microsoft tech, it's AMD tech, again it's in PC cards made by AMD. "For all we know" doesn't cut it, developers are saying PS5 doesn't support it, no games have any evidence of supporting it, DF and other tech breakdown channels find no evidence of it on PS5 and DF say it doesn't have the hardware. You say supbar, id say otherwise and the resolution difference bears that out. The Coalition released a whole paper on it showing screens where it was Indistinguishable, there are also 3 modes of it detailed in that paper.
Primitive Shaders as defined by AMD on an AMD APU are probably what AMD say they are, there is no reason to think otherwise and the descriptions of them sound like they are the same thing, no proof otherwise exists.

To say Cerny would do a deep dive on many hardware features and just leave some that the console supported out is disingenuous at best, the PS5 has an io system to move lots of data quickly, this was detailed extensively. SFS aims to mitigate the same memory and bandwith problems in a different way by moving less data slower, it's two sides of the same equation. Why would Sony invest so heavily in their Io if they use SFS and could produce the same result. The feature hasn't been mentioned by Sony or any developer talking about PS5, the joint statement is clear and MS have gone on record with its results and how it's a fundamental part of the VA.
The Geometry Engine is still made by AMD, it's a customized part in the same way MS customised cores and filters on their GPU, you talk about fancy names but seem hung up by this one, when Microsoft in their hot chips presentation mention exactly the same phrase.

Calling something a "piece of garbage" is poor console warring at its lowest, it enables next gen games at a more affordable price, some people will want that and recent sales seem to say so. The entire original point of me saying wait to see games that use all the performance saving features mentioned in the joint statement at the RDNA2 reveal is that they will help Series S achieve just that, it's a fundamental part of the hardware.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Why would it? There's a theoretical 18% power gap between the two. We're still in the cross-gen phase where games are built for an 18 CU PS4 as the lead hardware. Unless you're traumatized from FUD, you wouldn't expect any mindblowing differences.

I will not go through all the nonsense you spew, but basically you guys (Xbox guys that is) had the same excuse for the performance gap early in the xbone life span... Wait for x, y, z... Things will be better.

If anything things got worse for the xbone, yet all of them are here again, saying essentially the same thing, asking for more, bending over backwards to praise the gospel of Phil.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Calling something a "piece of garbage" is poor console warring at its lowest, it enables next gen games at a more affordable price, some people will want that and recent sales seem to say so. The entire original point of me saying wait to see games that use all the performance saving features mentioned in the joint statement at the RDNA2 reveal is that they will help Series S achieve just that, it's a fundamental part of the hardware.

The problem with that line of thinking is that you assume that the games will keep doing what they were doing before, in the same manner.

As we have seen when going from ps360 to PS4/ One... Projecting that your new console will do what the last one did at 1080p is not good enough (this is how MS picked their target performance for the xbone, complete lack of vision) to predict that it's good enough (best case scenarios are fine, but the problem is that when it fails... Well it fails hard).

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I will not go through all the nonsense you spew, but basically you guys (Xbox guys that is) had the same excuse for the performance gap early in the xbone life span... Wait for x, y, z... Things will be better.

If anything things got worse for the xbone, yet all of them are here again, saying essentially the same thing, asking for more, bending over backwards to praise the gospel of Phil.

Cool story. I wasn't here back then, and I owned a PS4 and not an Xbox.

No waiting is necessary this gen btw, even when PS5 punches above it's weight, it's usually only enough for what reasonable people would call a draw. It's very rare that PS5 outright wins.

 

[PropellerEar]

It's very rare that PS5 outright wins.

Come on now...
Sony always wins!

 

[onQ123]

In my opinion Series S is one of the smartest things Xbox team has done the only thing keeping Series S from dominating is Nintendo Switch.

 

[Pedro Motta]

In my opinion Series S is one of the smartest things Xbox team has done the only thing keeping Series S from dominating is Nintendo Switch.

 

[Dolomite]

You will see a lot 1080p render with AI upscale yo higher resolution this gen. You won’t get native higher resolution in most games.

There is a reason why the UE5 demos are all lower resolution.

this Hard truth gang

 

[Riky]

The problem with that line of thinking is that you assume that the games will keep doing what they were doing before, in the same manner.

As we have seen when going from ps360 to PS4/ One... Projecting that your new console will do what the last one did at 1080p is not good enough (this is how MS picked their target performance for the xbone, complete lack of vision) to predict that it's good enough (best case scenarios are fine, but the problem is that when it fails... Well it fails hard).

No actually you are presuming games will keep doing what they have been doing, that's why you're judging a console using last gen engines and none of the extra hardware features it has.
Like some developers have said the move to next gen only will help Series S, if you think engines that use direct storage, Tier 2 VRS, SFS and Mesh Shaders won't benefit Series S then you're not thinking it through.
Having engines tuned to it's hardware supported features will produce better results than last gen engines.

 

[DarkMage619]

No actually you are presuming games will keep doing what they have been doing, that's why you're judging a console using last gen engines and none of the extra hardware features it has.
Like some developers have said the move to next gen only will help Series S, if you think engines that use direct storage, Tier 2 VRS, SFS and Mesh Shaders won't benefit Series S then you're not thinking it through.
Having engines tuned to it's hardware supported features will produce better results than last gen engines.

You didn't know that cross generational games have already maxed the potential of these new systems? Guardians struggled to maintain 60fps on PS5 and XSX so even the higher end consoles are doomed apparently. Still none of that matters the XSS is the main problem blah blah blah. I still can't figure out that if you don't own an XSS or even an Xbox in many cases why do you even care what the XSS does? The next God or War or Gran Tourismo won't be affected either way. Seems like people are just expressing more patented 'concern'.

 

[DenchDeckard]

When do we think the series s arguments will stop? And people move on?

I don’t get why we give so much thought to it and not just leave it to do it’s thing. It’s obviously sold millions of units so it’s doing we’ll enough I think, and it doesn’t seem to be affecting the big brothers games at all.

 

[DarkMage619]

When do we think the series s arguments will stop? And people move on?

I don’t get why we give so much thought to it and not just leave it to do it’s thing. It’s obviously sold millions of units so it’s doing we’ll enough I think, and it doesn’t seem to be affecting the big brothers games at all.

As long as people can present such compelling arguments as "XSS is a piece of garbage that cannot deliver a full next-gen experience and we're already seeing games with sub 600p sections." it will never stop. Especially when if you were to say the same thing about the PS5 for instance you would be removed from the forum. People can say whatever they want about the XSS and there is no consequence so bickering like this will be a mainstay.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

 

[adamsapple]

When do we think the series s arguments will stop? And people move on?

I don’t get why we give so much thought to it and not just leave it to do it’s thing. It’s obviously sold millions of units so it’s doing we’ll enough I think, and it doesn’t seem to be affecting the big brothers games at all.

On this forum ? Never.

It's a pattern, if a multi-platform game performs equally or better on the SX, the same actors dog-pile on the SS.

Unfortunately I foresee this being a generation-long thing.

 

[Lysandros]

It's a pattern, if a multi-platform game performs equally or better on the SX, the same actors dog-pile on the SS.

Unfortunately I foresee this being a generation-long thing.

XSX runs this game this game 0.03% better in the RT mode thanks to the 'mighty power of 12TF' i guess, no one needs to deny that. Now, the users have also the right to criticize the blatant false advertising of XSS citing this game as an example i think.

 

[adamsapple]

XSX runs this game this game 0.03% better in the RT mode thanks to the 'mighty power of 12TF' i guess, no one needs to deny that i think. Now the users have also the right to criticize the blatant false advertising of XSS citing this game as an example i think.

Just browse the very topic you're making this post in. It's kinda obvious whose doing what, lol.

 

[DarkMage619]

XSX runs this game this game 0.03% better in the RT mode thanks to the 'mighty power of 12TF' i guess, no one needs to deny that i think. Now the users have also the right to criticize the blatant false advertising of XSS citing this game as an example i think.

I have to ask what about this 3rd party cross generational titles proves the 'blatant false advertising of the XSS'?

 

[Bogroll]

When do we think the series s arguments will stop? And people move on?

I don’t get why we give so much thought to it and not just leave it to do it’s thing. It’s obviously sold millions of units so it’s doing we’ll enough I think, and it doesn’t seem to be affecting the big brothers games at all.

A lot of people are really hurt after falling for the nanite is only possible on PS5. And to see it running on the XSS has really made them bitter.

 

[JaksGhost]

On this forum ? Never.

It's a pattern, if a multi-platform game performs equally or better on the SX, the same actors dog-pile on the SS.

Unfortunately I foresee this being a generation-long thing.

It's a cycle because it's the same people on BOTH sides doing the most about the same things. The same pictures are shown as "proof", the same Cerny dissection is done, the same Xbox website is brought up every single time talking about RDNA2 features, etc. etc. etc.

 

[adamsapple]

It's a cycle because it's the same people on BOTH sides doing the most about the same things. The same pictures are shown as "proof", the same Cerny dissection is done, the same Xbox website is brought up every single time talking about RDNA2 features, etc. etc. etc.

The best/worst thing is that we're not even in the new generation proper. 99% of the games are cross-gen so they're no real barometer of the next-gen console metrics/performance.

 

[yamaci17]

SO CUTE UHUHUHU

 

[Snake29]

A lot of people are really hurt after falling for the nanite is only possible on PS5. And to see it running on the XSS has really made them bitter.

I have never seen anyone saying nanite was only possible on PS5? I fact, nobody said UE5 was PS5 exclusive.

The only fans that are bitter over the whole UE thing and the Matrix demo are xbox fanboys. People were blind by all the specs talk around the Series consoles.

Hopes and Dreams.