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DF: Hogwarts Legacy - DF Tech Review - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S - 21 Mode Variations Tested

Lysandros

Member
I didn't say that Xbox doesn't have HW decompression, but it's significantly less powerful than PS5's, which means some of that load will likely have to be borne by the CPU.

Both have HW decompression, but PS5 has 300% more powerful HW decompression, which keeps CPU mostly free.
Besides the much less powerful decompressor XSX also doesn't have an entire I/O complex with two co-processors, ESRAM, cache scrubber informing coherency engines etc, within its APU like PS5. The I/O side is where the biggest difference in those machine lies, PS5 is much more hardware heavy on that front, no question about it.
 

01011001

Banned
Uncapped framerate toggles in all graphical modes is a great option. It should be in all games moving forward. Great way to future proof your game on consoles and it gives some extra stuff for the more technically minded individuals to sink their teeth into.

indeed.
but even without the future proofing, having Vsync off instantly improves input lag and isn't an issue on any VRR TV
 

Tsaki

Member
Awesome to see Rich himself doing a review. And I feel he's better at it than his employees, who were too afraid of REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Guess he took the fall on the grenade for this game lol. Out of all the DF staff, Richard is the only one that could pull it off, not only because he is more professional than the others (I think Tom is pretty up there too), but also because he is not easily targeted, being the DF "leader" and having the most journalistic experience of them all (not having a social media presence helps too).
 

Nankatsu

Gold Member
Welcome to Hogwarts:

Fog GIF
 

onQ123

Member
… or PS5 SDK and tools are also, shock 😱, improving too. Also, maybe, it was not just a “PS5 is doing well because the competition is dropping the ball, but just you watch…” scenario and when people said the two consoles had trade offs that made the difference in performance less clear? (MS not pushing super strongly how XSX is the world most powerful console in their marketing after launch should tell you something too)
This thread faded once the consoles actually came out People don't even talk about the power of Series X anymore https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ot-xbox-power-king-memes.1531914/
 

Godfavor

Member
Besides the much less powerful decompressor XSX also doesn't have an entire I/O complex with two co-processors, ESRAM, cache scrubber informing coherency engines etc, within its APU like PS5. The I/O side is where the biggest difference in those machine lies, PS5 is much more hardware heavy on that front, no question about it.
It is HW heavy in different aspects like Xbox is on others (VRS tier 2, fp4-8 compute, mesh shaders, SFS, 52CU).

But we cannot judge the stutters because of the IO, high chance its not using the velocity architecture at all (like the PC a DX12 developed game scaled to PC and Xbox HW )
 
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Lysandros

Member
I wonder about the other consoles coming. My guess (straight out of my ass) is the following:
XB1X 30 fps 1440p Low/Medium settings
PS4 Pro 30 fps 1080p Low/Medium Settings

PS4 900p 30 fps Low/Med settings
XB1 720p 30 fps Low/Med settings
Switch 480p 30 fps Low/(maybe some medium settings, good luck)
Since the general concensus seems to be "Sony paying developers lacking work ethics to botch the Xbox versions" i expect that it would be other way around with PS4 PRO being 1440P versus XB1X's 1080P. You know, like the usual state of affairs on last generation... ;)
 

Skifi28

Member
I usually don't buy games on console without first seeing how they run, but I'm glad my gamble this time paid off. Other than the occasional loading-related stutter, I can't say I noticed any issues in either the 40 or 60fps modes on PS5.
 

allan-bh

Member
If powerful PCs are having problems running this game, doesn't make sense to use as an example for measure power between PS5 and Series X.

It seems pretty obvious that Avalanche prioritazed the optimization of PS5 version.
 
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K' Dash

Member
I’d prefer to buy these multi platform games for Series X but they always seem to be better on PS5, I wonder what the fuck is happening at MS?

Sony gets my money again.
 

Lysandros

Member
If powerful PCs are having problems running this game, doesn't make sense to use as an example for measure power between PS5 and Series X.

It seems pretty obvious that Avalanche prioritazed the optimization of PS5 version.
Let me advance this a bit further; "It doesn't makes sense to use any situation where PS5 happens to outperform XSX as an example for measure of power between PS5 and Series X." If XSX happens to outperform PS5 though... It's entirely another matter; let's sing the praise of the CU and compute.
 
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allan-bh

Member
Let me advance this a bit further; "It doesn't makes sense to use any situation where PS5 happens to outperform XSX as an example for measure of power between PS5 and Series X." If XSX happens to outperform PS5 though... It's entirely another matter; let's sing the praise of the CU and compute.
You seem to follow a console war rhetoric, but I'm not a xbox fanboy.

I'm just talking about the specific case of Hogwarts Legacy, I don't care if Xbox is more powerful or not.
 
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Lysandros

Member
You seem to follow a console war rhetoric, but I'm not a xbox fanboy.

I'm just talking about the specific case of Hogwarts Legacy, I don't care if Xbox is more powerful or not.
I apologize if this was not your intent. I often see posts with these kind of arguments in comparison threads and i am simply a bit tired of it. Cheers.
 

phant0m

Member
If powerful PCs are having problems running this game, doesn't make sense to use as an example for measure power between PS5 and Series X.

It seems pretty obvious that Avalanche prioritazed the optimization of PS5 version.
I still don’t know what this narrative is about. My 5800X and 3080 (which I think only qualifies as ‘mid-spec’ now) eat this game up locked at 75 fps. Everything on Ultra @ 1440p, RT disabled. No stutters and I’ve had one crash I’m 25+ hours.

Game looks good and feels great.
 
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analog_future

Resident Crybaby
I’d prefer to buy these multi platform games for Series X but they always seem to be better on PS5, I wonder what the fuck is happening at MS?

Sony gets my money again.

That's not true at all. The majority of games are slightly better on Series X, but PS5 has the upper hand every now and then. Even John from DF put together a list of games they've compared between platforms, and Series X is preferable in 70+% of them.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Why are we still talking all this technical jargon about which console has the uber super tech etc when they are basically identical consoles?
If they were identical, we would not be seeing these gaps in performance. If they were identical, simply porting the more optimized PS5 version would offer identical performance if not better considering XSX has 18% more tflops and 25% more bandwidth.

When games are ported to PC, a 3080 will always be outperformed by the 3090Ti. And the 4080 will always be outperformed by the 4090. Because they are actually identical save for extra compute power in the more expensive GPUs.

This is not the case here. The XSX has more raw compute but for whatever reason it doesnt always translate into better performance like it did last gen when the x1x consistently offered 44% better performance than the PS4 Pro in line with its compute advantage. They were both Polaris GPUs. PS4 Pro had the advantage of better low level APIs and yet the tflops difference was virtually identical to the pixel advantage the XSX games enjoyed in virtually every single game.

There is something causing bottlenecks in the XSX. Ive been saying this since day one. The entire point of MS moving to DX12 was to help streamline with the optimization for PC and multiple XS consoles. It's possible this game is poorly optimized on DX12 like Alex says but optimization doesnt get you 50% better performance. Maybe 10%. At best 18% and the XSX shouldve performed the same as the PS5. But no, we are seeing it is performing WAY worse. There is something else going on here. Either the PS5 is punching above its weight or the xsx is poorly designed.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I remember the XSX being much MUCH more powerful 2 years ago.
Now they are "basically identical".

Well some people still can't accept that because we are waiting for full activation apparently.
All I see are the same people talking about how amazing the ps5 hardware is and is leagues ahead of the xbox in every comparison where its like one or two fps ahead in certain scenes and then the game gets patched and is never spoken of again until the next one...

...the thing I find weird is these people never talk about how much better the xbox is in comparison threads when that console "wins" a comparison. And there's been a few big releases where its been ahead. Higher res and smoother framerates yet there's no discussion on what magic designed part of the xbox could be the reason behind that "win"

It's so odd....but I just look at the posts and laugh now lol

So many words posted on a forum about technical wizardry and differences yet silence when it's the other way around.... what explains that?
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
If they were identical, we would not be seeing these gaps in performance. If they were identical, simply porting the more optimized PS5 version would offer identical performance if not better considering XSX has 18% more tflops and 25% more bandwidth.

When games are ported to PC, a 3080 will always be outperformed by the 3090Ti. And the 4080 will always be outperformed by the 4090. Because they are actually identical save for extra compute power in the more expensive GPUs.

This is not the case here. The XSX has more raw compute but for whatever reason it doesnt always translate into better performance like it did last gen when the x1x consistently offered 44% better performance than the PS4 Pro in line with its compute advantage. They were both Polaris GPUs. PS4 Pro had the advantage of better low level APIs and yet the tflops difference was virtually identical to the pixel advantage the XSX games enjoyed in virtually every single game.

There is something causing bottlenecks in the XSX. Ive been saying this since day one. The entire point of MS moving to DX12 was to help streamline with the optimization for PC and multiple XS consoles. It's possible this game is poorly optimized on DX12 like Alex says but optimization doesnt get you 50% better performance. Maybe 10%. At best 18% and the XSX shouldve performed the same as the PS5. But no, we are seeing it is performing WAY worse. There is something else going on here. Either the PS5 is punching above its weight or the xsx is poorly designed.

Have you ever thought that, one console was slightly more prioritised than the other and then they are fixed after launch.

It's like we don't learn, nearly every single game launched in the last year has received multiple patches and performance ironed out. And there has been tons of games where when you do the math you see the 15 to 20 percent advantage.

It's just the way it is.

Your comparing a PC with the exact same dev environment but that isn't the easy to do it bro and you know it isn't.

You'd have to compare windows to Linux, or windows to proton or something.

These consoles aren't running on the same api's or os or you would see a flat TF difference.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Have you ever thought that, one console was slightly more prioritised than the other and then they are fixed after launch.

It's like we don't learn, nearly every single game launched in the last year has received multiple patches and performance ironed out. And there has been tons of games where when you do the math you see the 15 to 20 percent advantage.

It's just the way it is.

Your comparing a PC with the exact same dev environment but that isn't the easy to do it bro and you know it isn't.

You'd have to compare windows to Linux, or windows to proton or something.

These consoles aren't running on the same api's or os or you would see a flat TF difference.
I have not seen that. Some games that performed better at launch performed the same after patches. AC Valhalla was one such example. They got the framerate to hit 60 fps but had to drop the DRS all the way down to 1080p on the XSX when it was 1440p on the PS5. Thats just putting a bandaid on the problem. Optimization post launch is almost always a case of downgrades. They will never go back and rewrite their code to try and squeek out more frames AFTER shipping their games. They will just turn down some settings and get performance to a better space. It wont actually change the fact that the XSX is not performing as it should.

And you completely ignored my PS4 and X1x comparisons. The APIs didnt matter back then. 99.9% of the games on the PS4 Pro were outperformed by the X1X ports. Here we see these weird parities and straight up PS5 advantages in like 30-40% of the games. That should never happen if they were identical.
 
All I see are the same people talking about how amazing the ps5 hardware is and is leagues ahead of the xbox in every comparison where its like one or two fps ahead in certain scenes and then the game gets patched and is never spoken of again until the next one...

...the thing I find weird is these people never talk about how much better the xbox is in comparison threads when that console "wins" a comparison. And there's been a few big releases where its been ahead. Higher res and smoother framerates yet there's no discussion on what magic designed part of the xbox could be the reason behind that "win"

It's so odd....but I just look at the posts and laugh now lol

So many words posted on a forum about technical wizardry and differences yet silence when it's the other way around.... what explains that?

I haven't seen that. What I've seen are discussions saying that the XSX is a lot more powerful. Due to its extra 2 TFs and full array of RDNA 2 features. However the talks about the PS5s I/O being faster is true. Plus kraken bringing benefits like smaller file sizes.

What the biggest advantage of the PS5 is its production pipeline. Something that we are seeing currently.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
All I see are the same people talking about how amazing the ps5 hardware is and is leagues ahead of the xbox in every comparison where its like one or two fps ahead in certain scenes and then the game gets patched and is never spoken of again until the next one...

...the thing I find weird is these people never talk about how much better the xbox is in comparison threads when that console "wins" a comparison. And there's been a few big releases where its been ahead. Higher res and smoother framerates yet there's no discussion on what magic designed part of the xbox could be the reason behind that "win"

It's so odd....but I just look at the posts and laugh now lol

So many words posted on a forum about technical wizardry and differences yet silence when it's the other way around.... what explains that?

You can't be serious with this post. The majority of games have been had better performance on XSX, as expected, and there has been plenty of discussion on that. There is no need to talk about any silly "magic" in those "wins". The XSX has the more powerful GPU. But that is not all there is to it and so some games have performed better on PS5, but still a minority.

Saying the XSX is met with "silence" when it achieves a win is simply absurd. Pure fiction.
 

K' Dash

Member
That's not true at all. The majority of games are slightly better on Series X, but PS5 has the upper hand every now and then. Even John from DF put together a list of games they've compared between platforms, and Series X is preferable in 70+% of them.

Well, at least in the games I want to buy day one. Let’s see how it goes with RE4 Remake.
 
Sure is funny how most games these days have Sony marketing because they are the market leader and can negotiate better terms on those deals.

Whatever performance is better is probably just down to either better hardware, devs focusing more resources into optimizing for the best selling platform, or both rather than a deliberate conspiracy to make it run worse on competing platforms.
This is exactly it. This will stay the status quo unless MS can deal some serious blows to Sony and I'm afraid not even if every single upcoming game was amazing(Perfect dark, Avowed, Fable etc.) It still wouldn't cause people to pick up an Xbox over a PS5.

Sony has a massive brand and history advantage over MS specially in Europe and Asia. Releasing good games won't change that but it won't hurt MS either.
 
Why? In the case of John and Alex, they're right...They both said they weren't going to review it. They could have made this video.
John is not woke. He's not reviewing the game for personal reasons he already has disclosed but I won't get into out of respect. Alex is a reee poster and has often criticized asian games for not being PC when it comes to lewd depictions of women, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he wasn't reviewing the game because he's woke.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
If powerful PCs are having problems running this game, doesn't make sense to use as an example for measure power between PS5 and Series X.

It seems pretty obvious that Avalanche prioritazed the optimization of PS5 version.
When ps5 wins, we hear that it's lack of xbox optimization
When xbox wins ,we hear that the consoles are the same mid range pc's and it's just unreal engine running on it, so obviously xbox is better
 
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You can't be serious with this post. The majority of games have been had better performance on XSX, as expected, and there has been plenty of discussion on that. There is no need to talk about any silly "magic" in those "wins". The XSX has the more powerful GPU. But that is not all there is to it and so some games have performed better on PS5, but still a minority.

Saying the XSX is met with "silence" when it achieves a win is simply absurd. Pure fiction.

True.

I think what's been exaggerated was the advantage of the Series X when compared to the PS5. Dealer (for example) made the claim that if the PS5 is pushing 30FPS the X would push double that. Obviously people who believed this are in the minority but the claims are there.

From a developer POV both systems are virtually identical where power is concerned. Which is great because they don't have to make any massive sacrifices to make the game run on the PS5. In the end both systems being similar is also great for consumers since they are priced the same. Nobody is getting screwed with performance with either system.
 

Lysandros

Member
You can't be serious with this post. The majority of games have been had better performance on XSX, as expected, and there has been plenty of discussion on that. There is no need to talk about any silly "magic" in those "wins". The XSX has the more powerful GPU. But that is not all there is to it and so some games have performed better on PS5, but still a minority.

Saying the XSX is met with "silence" when it achieves a win is simply absurd. Pure fiction.
Besides disagreeing about the GPU statement i am also a bit curious about the source and/or statistics for the "majority of games had better performance on XSX". Did you calculate the percentage yourself including all the credible sources like Vgtech, NXgamer, DF etc? Because after following all these comparisons since the beginning of the generation it all seemed much more evenly matched to me.
 
Besides disagreeing about the GPU statement i am also a bit curious about the source and/or statistics for the "majority of games had better performance on XSX". Did you calculate the percentage yourself including all the credible sources like Vgtech, NXgamer, DF etc? Because after following all these comparisons since the beginning of the generation it all seemed much more evenly matched to me.

What I've mostly noticed is XSX will have a slightly higher resolution with looser frame rate targets, that seems to be the norm.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Besides disagreeing about the GPU statement i am also a bit curious about the source and/or statistics for the "majority of games had better performance on XSX". Did you calculate the percentage yourself including all the credible sources like Vgtech, NXgamer, DF etc? Because after following all these comparisons since the beginning of the generation it all seemed much more evenly matched to me.

The GPU statement is based on teraflops alone. As I said, there is more to it than that. And no, there is no source or statistics for my statement that XSX performing better in the "majority". That is my perception from reading these comparisons. The differences are typically very minor though.

What I've mostly noticed is XSX will have a slightly higher resolution with looser frame rate targets, that seems to be the norm.

Pretty much how I've seen it as well.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
All I see are the same people talking about how amazing the ps5 hardware is and is leagues ahead of the xbox in every comparison where its like one or two fps ahead in certain scenes and then the game gets patched and is never spoken of again until the next one...

...the thing I find weird is these people never talk about how much better the xbox is in comparison threads when that console "wins" a comparison. And there's been a few big releases where its been ahead. Higher res and smoother framerates yet there's no discussion on what magic designed part of the xbox could be the reason behind that "win"

It's so odd....but I just look at the posts and laugh now lol

So many words posted on a forum about technical wizardry and differences yet silence when it's the other way around.... what explains that?
Nobody is saying that ps5 is leagues ahead of xsx, it's actually inferior in some aspects, but API and SDK maturity seem to be ahead of XSX dev environment.

I'm referring to what happened at the time of launch of the consoles, when Xbox fanboys said that the PS5 wouldn't be able to compete with the XSX, because Smartshift meant that the CPU and GPU could never operate at full load at the same time (no matter how much it was explained to them what smartshift really was, they would keep posting this shit) and for the CPU to operate at full load the GPU would undervolted and would operate in reality at 9 or 8 TF, giving the XSX up to 50% power advantage and the difference in multiplatform games would be like night and day, and the ps5 would be lucky if it survived this gen.

And now... "ThEy aRe nEaRLy IdEnTiCaL!!"
 
True.

I think what's been exaggerated was the advantage of the Series X when compared to the PS5. Dealer (for example) made the claim that if the PS5 is pushing 30FPS the X would push double that. Obviously people who believed this are in the minority but the claims are there.

From a developer POV both systems are virtually identical where power is concerned. Which is great because they don't have to make any massive sacrifices to make the game run on the PS5. In the end both systems being similar is also great for consumers since they are priced the same. Nobody is getting screwed with performance with either system.

Why did Microsoft market it as the most powerful console? Don’t get me wrong I’m not disputing what you say, at the time of launch it was one of the reasons i bought it.
 
Why did Microsoft market it as the most powerful console? Don’t get me wrong I’m not disputing what you say, at the time of launch it was one of the reasons i bought it.

It is and they can. But there isn't a massive difference between the two so most people won't care about the power difference.
 
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