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[Sygma]

RIch calls Quest 2's success "part of the problem with VR development" then conveniently glosses over the fact it offers wireless 120Hz gaming with high-end PCs since last year with Air Link and Virtual Desktop. Quest 2 is both standalone and high-end PC experience.

Rich is inferring that it's Quest 2's success that's limiting "high-end" VR experience because devs are targeting it's mobile hardware. That's a foolish take. The install base that can justify the development cost traditionally put towards massive AAA titles like RDR2 just isn't there for VR, or rather hasn't been until the Quest 2.

Contrary to what Rich stated Quest 2 is actually growing PCVR, accounting for 35% of headsets being used on Steam by the end of it's first year. It's plain to see that Quest 2 is a gateway to PCVR. The more people that buy a Quest 2, the more people that will be playing PCVR.


And talking about PSVR2 ushering in new "high-end" VR experience while port-begging HL Alyx was weird, too. Alyx, FS2020, RE2 VR...all already being played on high-end Quest 2 PCVR in the present.

Doesn't change the fact that he's right. Competitor of Quest 2 on pc being index / the rest, and whats their install base compared to it ? amount of AAA vr games compatible with Quest 2 if played on pc with superior hardware being ?

Most of the VR success is on the Quest 2 ecosystem even on pc. If you look at the most used hardware on Steam its kinda easy to connect the dots from there. By that I mean that most of the hardware primarily used by Steam users wouldn't be enough to run high end VR games in much better conditions than on Quest 2.

 

[Punished Miku]

Doesn't change the fact that he's right. Competitor of Quest 2 on pc being index / the rest, and whats their install base compared to it ? amount of AAA vr games compatible with Quest 2 if played on pc with superior hardware being ?

Most of the VR success is on the Quest 2 ecosystem even on pc. If you look at the most used hardware on Steam its kinda easy to connect the dots from there. By that I mean that most of the hardware primarily used by Steam users wouldn't be enough to run high end VR games in much better conditions than on Quest 2.

If the Index can't compete in terms of user base then isn't the Index holding itself back? Its clearly way too expensive for the majority of people.

 

[Sygma]

If the Index can't compete in terms of user base then isn't the Index holding itself back? Its clearly way too expensive for the majority of people.

I mean its growth has been slow and there haven't been any "outstanding" experience since Alyx / Boneworks anyway so

All the real fun vr games are on the quest and psvr, whereas pc gives you the best conditions if you're decked out for it

 

[iHaunter]

Pretty silly to dismiss gaming on Quest while glossing over the reasoning with the anti-metaverse argument when its own library is largely games and even Facebook push deep gaming experiences with deals like RE4VR, even if they also go after the casual crowd with fitness and such crap.

There's no reason to fear the metaverse because it's not happening, no corp will provide a digital universe as compelling as what you see in fiction for everyone to join, the metaverse will just be (or already is) collectively everything you do digitally in separate programs, games, apps, XR etc.

Quest is also a PC VR device making games like Alyx fully playable, dawgs. Also these are the guys hyping up Switch for delivering modern games in sub par ways, now they suddenly don't see the potential mobile soc hold for the future of gaming in every category, whether in or out of VR?

But sure, high end VR games like how Hitman 3 will soon be on PC, Alyx, hopefully this Horizon thing and more are great. Which doesn't make some awesome low-fi indie VR games any less fun, just as people like playing more than the next AAA hit outside VR. Other than that, nothing new.

Edit: sorry for triggering you ParaSeoul & ethomaz (& your alt phaedrus with 0 posts), it's just facts, that's why you don't argue against any of it and go on tangents about popular thing x you dislike or thing y not being as popular as you like, as if any of it matters vs something unreleased you could be arguing against with the same bs as it won't sell gazillions in a month or only do core games. Nobody insulted your Sony, PSVR2 will be great for those who scalp a PS5, it would be ace if it also worked on PC/they ported its games to PC, but they aren't the be all end all & for VR are a gen lttp no matter how you hard you push that next gen VR starts when Sony says so, everyone has to keep up at the same time, not after, not before either as Sony's is good enough until they decide it's time to bring a successor, rendering everything else obsolete, or superfluous, accordingly

Quest 2 got the best available VR mobile soc. If people didn't get it for games, if Facebook didn't want to use gaming, there'd be zero reason to make a Quest 2 that only does games better yet sold much faster. Of course it was designed for it, that's most of what Quest store sells and why everyone copies Touch controllers. RE4VR was pushed hard and broke VR sales records. Yes, PC gaming is expensive and doesn't have comfy couches, good points for 2022 after Steam's constant growth despite chip shortages and PS5-like scalper prices for new components, nobody takes PC gaming seriously so PC VR gaming will suffer the same fate (so, probably grow to eclipse every VR platform once the medium is as accepted as flat gaming and mainstream for real, like Alyx as a demanding VR game is already among the top sellers next to Beat Saber, Quest hype be damned)

Make a clown emoji all you want, the specs still suck for gaming. Cope your purchase if you want. I don't think it's worth it all.

 

[Shmunter]

Regarding quest, as usual - min specs matter in tech.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Make a clown emoji all you want, the specs still suck for gaming. Cope your purchase if you want. I don't think it's worth it all.

You’re right, here’s PSVR 2’s mobile mode screenshot for comparison :

 

[Pedro Motta]

How does Half Life Alyx look and run on Quest 2?

I played Alyx on both the Index and Quest 2. The Quest 2 is actually pretty good considering the difference in price, it's a pretty solid experience.

 

[ethomaz]

I played Alyx on both the Index and Quest 2. The Quest 2 is actually pretty good considering the difference in price, it's a pretty solid experience.

Both are running on PC... the different in IQ is due how strong the compression goes and the quality of the screen.
In simple terms: Index > Quest 2 wired >> Quest 2 wireless.

 

[SLB1904]

off topic, just found this video. game looks fun

 

[Shmunter]

Making it compatible with PC would be a smart move. It'll help both PS players and PC players as the market is still niche for top quality AAA VR games, if there are any aside from Half Life.

Problem is the price point. If the hardware is subsidised by software sales on psn eco system, it makes little sense to sell subsidised hardware for other platforms only to make losses.

 

[RoadHazard]

There is both, environment mapping on VR does exist.

Playing with the Future: Oculus Insight Powers Beyond Room-Scale VR Gaming

At OC5, we announced Oculus Insight, our inside-out positional tracking technology that powers immersive room-scale experiences on Oculus Quest. With the new Dead and Buried Arena demo, we gave attendees a taste of how Oculus Insight enables arena scale tracking by going beyond room-scale...

www.oculus.com

That's really just describing how the Quest's environment tracking works (which is by detecting a set of points and edges in the environment in 3D so it can then track movement through it - the technique is called SLAM). The difference is that in this example they manually made the in-game map correspond to the physical environment. It's not a 3D map generated from what the headset sees.

 

[isoRhythm]

For some, next gen VR starts when Sony says so, everyone has to keep up on exactly the same moment in time, not before, or after. Sony's is good enough until when they decide it's not good enough and bring a successor, rendering everything else obsolete, or superfluous, accordingly

This device so far is 2 generations ahead of the Quest 2. And this is coming from someone who owned the Rift, Index, Quest 1 & 2.

 

[isoRhythm]

Make a clown emoji all you want, the specs still suck for gaming. Cope your purchase if you want. I don't think it's worth it all.

The removal of the OLED screen was such a backward step, making it significantly worse.

 

[Sosokrates]

That's really just describing how the Quest's environment tracking works (which is by detecting a set of points and edges in the environment in 3D so it can then track movement through it - the technique is called SLAM). The difference is that in this example they manually made the in-game map correspond to the physical environment. It's not a 3D map generated from what the headset sees.

Yes but you understood what I meant no?

 

[RoadHazard]

Yes but you understood what I meant no?

Yeah, but you said 3D environment mapping already exists and referred to a Quest article. But that's not quite what's done there, and I don't know if it's something it could do. It does map the environment as a set of high-contrast features (points) and edges, but I don't think you could really extract a full 3D representation of the environment from that.

 

[Sosokrates]

Yeah, but you said 3D environment mapping already exists and referred to a Quest article. But that's not quite what's done there, and I don't know if it's something it could do. It does map the environment as a set of high-contrast features (points) and edges, but I don't think you could really extract a full 3D representation of the environment from that.

Ive seen a demo but could not find it, but even if it does not exist yet, the concept definitely exists and of course its something that needs development.
I still think it will be a game+tech which could push the medium forward.

 

[RoadHazard]

Ive seen a demo but could not find it, but even if it does not exist yet, the concept definitely exists and of course its something that needs development.
I still think it will be a game+tech which could push the medium forward.

The question is: Does it even make sense to do this in VR when it could be done in AR? Why generate a 3D version of your room when you could just overlay stuff over a feed of your ACTUAL room? Which is already possible (but not with the Quest, because it doesn't have color video passthrough, only very grainy and warped B/W video from the tracking cameras).

 

[Sosokrates]

The question is: Does it even make sense to do this in VR when it could be done in AR? Why generate a 3D version of your room when you could just overlay stuff over a feed of your ACTUAL room? Which is already possible (but not with the Quest, because it doesn't have color video passthrough, only very grainy and warped B/W video from the tracking cameras).

Yes, AR may be the better way to do it.



This is a cool demo.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yes, AR may be the better way to do it.



This is a cool demo.

That's cool for sure.

Edit:

The next Quest 2 update may finally make punching TVs a thing of the past

Quest 2 users with access to the Public Test Channel have found a number of features to be included with Oculus v37.

www.androidcentral.com

Edit 2: Seems like this has you manually map out where your furniture is etc, it doesn't automatically generate it for you. Which makes sense given what I understand about how the mapping and tracking system works.

 

[mitchman]

I mean its growth has been slow and there haven't been any "outstanding" experience since Alyx / Boneworks anyway so

All the real fun vr games are on the quest and psvr, whereas pc gives you the best conditions if you're decked out for it

Well, I beg to differ. Simulators like DCS and Elite Dangerous is what VR was made for for many users. The immersion is amazing. There is little that beats sitting inside the F-16 cockpit, tilting the head down to look at the ground target or flying through a tight canyon at high speed.

 

[Alexios]

Wops wrong thread.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

It'd be best for Sony to make it work on the PC though.

Only if they sold psvr2 at a profit, so they wont.
Psvr2 would be sold at cost or even a loss, so making it work on games that Sony doesn't get a cut on is stupid.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

The question is: Does it even make sense to do this in VR when it could be done in AR? Why generate a 3D version of your room when you could just overlay stuff over a feed of your ACTUAL room? Which is already possible (but not with the Quest, because it doesn't have color video passthrough, only very grainy and warped B/W video from the tracking cameras).

Simple; VR is easier than AR for the same results.
Technologically AR is a harder problem to solve, like how flying is harder than driving. So VR is the shortcut to get the same effect on cheaper hardware, with better graphics.

 

[RoboFu]

The quest is a far superior product to push vr. It’s self contained and cheap and not that far behind in features compared to this. You need a ps5 to play this, you need a pc yo play a vive. That creates a huge cost of entry not even mentioning wires.
Anyone shitting on the quest while hyping vr are being a lot dumber than just being fanboys.

 

[RoadHazard]

Simple; VR is easier than AR for the same results.
Technologically AR is a harder problem to solve, like how flying is harder than driving. So VR is the shortcut to get the same effect on cheaper hardware, with better graphics.

AR headsets already exist though. Or what do you mean makes AR easier to do in VR than actual AR?

 

[Sygma]

Well, I beg to differ. Simulators like DCS and Elite Dangerous is what VR was made for for many users. The immersion is amazing. There is little that beats sitting inside the F-16 cockpit, tilting the head down to look at the ground target or flying through a tight canyon at high speed.

i dont disagree, im mostly talking about growth factor(s)

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

AR headsets already exist though. Or what do you mean makes AR easier to do in VR than actual AR?

AR headsets that exist are no where near consumer ready. Hence MS only sold them to the military where they don't need to worry about price. Unless you know of a AR headset that isn't costing SEVERAL thousand dollars a piece?

EDIT: Also, there was that Google AR glasses that basically failed. The inventor couldn't shrink the technology he came up with, and was forced to backtrack and end up doing what MS was doing but later.

You can buy VR headsets for the home. No one is buying AR glasses for the home. AR is just harder, I have no idea why you believed otherwise.

EDIT2:
I just want to mention the reason why AR is so damn hard; you had to bend light through certain angles in order to project light onto your eyes WHILE letting regular light to pass through as well. Doing so is near the borderline of what material science would physically allow.

VR can basically bypass all that by not having a transparent viewing area. Just reproduce the entire viewing world virtually on the display screens. Not having to worry about the virtual display "blocking the view". And the advantage also is that it can then do AR AND VR, being a hybrid device instead of only doing AR.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Good too see df is also hyped and agree that quest2 moved back a little graphic quality of vr games

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Well I do appreciate what some of the headsets like the quest are doing as much as I don't really like the Facebook metaverse movement, I did notice last night how much more active big screen was and we normally just play it on steam but I know it's all cross platform.

I guess what I'm saying is if you are into the VR that's great but also you should be aware that lots of casuals coming in will ultimately probably help if they buy the games but just be prepared LOL

 

[ahtlas7]

Come on Sony, make this work for my PS5 and PC!

 

[JackMcGunns]

WTH? is that real?

 

[BatSu]

WTH? is that real?

Yup

 

[Shmunter]

The quest is a far superior product to push vr. It’s self contained and cheap and not that far behind in features compared to this. You need a ps5 to play this, you need a pc yo play a vive. That creates a huge cost of entry not even mentioning wires.
Anyone shitting on the quest while hyping vr are being a lot dumber than just being fanboys.

But that’s like saying mobile phones push games more than consoles and pc’s on the same exact principle of accessibility. Sure, more people play games on mobile by far, but if you want the genre pushing, top stuff - you’re only getting it on the big hardware.

No issues with casuals, but that’s not neogaf members.

 

[Corndog]

I really hope Sony can allocate the budget to make some really top tier AAA VR games for PSVR2 on the level of a half life Alyx. It would be amazing.

I think this is the problem. If they fully support it, that’s takes development resources away from traditional games.
If they don’t support it with some first party it could not grow very fast.
I guess they could do some third party deals. My guess is vr remains niche and starts to plateau.

 

[RoadHazard]

WTH? is that real?

That's pretty much how a VR headset has to look to provide actual view-filling FOV, approaching what looking at reality feels like. All "regular" headsets feel like looking into the VR world through a diving mask, with very obvious edges on all sides and no real peripheral vision. Maybe future innovations in optics can improve the FOV without having to make the headset ridiculously wide, but we're far from that at the moment.

 

[Corndog]

It'd be best for Sony to make it work on the PC though.

They could even make a deal to get a portion of game sales. That might help it grow.

 

[Corndog]

Just like Switch and PS5 can both be successful for different reasons, a high end VR like PSVR 2 and alower-end, cheaper and portable VR like Quest 2 can both successfully coexist.

I'll have both.

Nintendo needs to make virtual boy 2

 

[Captain Toad]

Nintendo needs to make virtual boy 2

Seeing as Virtual Boy had nothing to do with VR outside of how the hardware looked, I don't agree.

But Nintendo could make an amazing VR set similar to Quest 2. I'd stay as far away from the Virtual Boy name though, as that was Nintendo's biggest failure and left bad will with how fast they gave up on it.

 

[Wonko_C]

Microsoft purchased Activision/Blizzard: There goes any hope of the next Call of Duty having a VR mode.

 

[mckmas8808]

Only if they sold psvr2 at a profit, so they wont.
Psvr2 would be sold at cost or even a loss, so making it work on games that Sony doesn't get a cut on is stupid.

Maybe.....but I do remember Sony saying at some point they were selling the OG PSVR at a profit. So maybe they'll wait a year or so before making PSVR2 workable on PC.

 

[Saberus]

Little bit of news.. If true, screens should be a stunner.. talking about the PPI

 

[OldBoyGamer]

Very excited for this. But worried about foveated rendering. It reminds me a bit of varifocul lenses used in glasses. I really struggled with those because i lost so much peripheral vision I hated it.

Also the speed one moves their eyes around can the rendering update keep up??

 

[Shmunter]

Very excited for this. But worried about foveated rendering. It reminds me a bit of varifocul lenses used in glasses. I really struggled with those because i lost so much peripheral vision I hated it.

Also the speed one moves their eyes around can the rendering update keep up??

I expect the eye tracking will execute at higher hz than the screen. Would defeat the purpose to have any lag

 

[DenchDeckard]

Little bit of news.. If true, screens should be a stunner.. talking about the PPI

Wait a minute, so there’s two screens with that high resolution? that sounds pretty amazing. I don’t think any other headset does that right?

Does that mean the headset has to display two displays worth of images or am I missing something?

 

[hlm666]

Wait a minute, so there’s two screens with that high resolution? that sounds pretty amazing. I don’t think any other headset does that right?

Does that mean the headset has to display two displays worth of images or am I missing something?

Vive used 2 panels, Index uses 2 aswell and the hp g2 uses 2 2160 panels which is the highest in the affordable consumer pc space. The eye tracking is about the only thing sony are bringing new to the consumer space unless oculus get cambria out first. The price is what has the potential to set sony apart.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Vive used 2 panels, Index uses 2 aswell and the hp g2 uses 2 2160 panels which is the highest in the affordable consumer pc space. The eye tracking is about the only thing sony are bringing new to the consumer space unless oculus get cambria out first. The price is what has the potential to set sony apart.

Ahh ok. Well I'm still looking forward to more being unveiled. Hope this one is really good. From a content perspective also.

 

[yurinka]

Wait a minute, so there’s two screens with that high resolution? that sounds pretty amazing. I don’t think any other headset does that right?

Does that mean the headset has to display two displays worth of images or am I missing something?

Basically the console (or PC) renders in this case a single 4000x2040 pixel image (8.16M pixels, almost the 8.3M pixels of a normal 4K 3840 x 2160 resolution).

Then for the headset that use 2 displays instead of one (PSVR2 won't be the first to use 2 displays), it shows the left half of this image on the display for the left eye, and the right half of the image on the display for the right eye.

But the console won't need to render at that huge resolution. When your eyes are looking to a specific point you see all the detail of that point, but the stuff far from it, that you aren't looking at it are blurrier, you aren't seeing its detail.

So some PSVR will have a camera for each eye to know where you are looking at, so will render this area with more detail, giving less detail for the stuff you aren't directly looking at. Meaning that they'll focus the horsepower where needed, and that this will help to increase image quality and/or framerate. PSVR1 already had a tech to 'double' the framerate by creating intermediate frames by interpolation, so they won't need to render the games at 90/120fps, but at the half of that.

TLDR: games will look great on PSVR2, a big improvement over PSVR1 and pretty much will look like normal PS5 games including AAA games.

 

[ajanke]

I really wanna know when this goes on sale. Must defeat scalpers

 

[DenchDeckard]

Basically the console (or PC) renders in this case a single 4000x2040 pixel image (8.16M pixels, almost the 8.3M pixels of a normal 4K 3840 x 2160 resolution).

Then for the headset that use 2 displays instead of one (PSVR2 won't be the first to use 2 displays), it shows the left half of this image on the display for the left eye, and the right half of the image on the display for the right eye.

But the console won't need to render at that huge resolution. When your eyes are looking to a specific point you see all the detail of that point, but the stuff far from it, that you aren't looking at it are blurrier, you aren't seeing its detail.

So some PSVR will have a camera for each eye to know where you are looking at, so will render this area with more detail, giving less detail for the stuff you aren't directly looking at. Meaning that they'll focus the horsepower where needed, and that this will help to increase image quality and/or framerate. PSVR1 already had a tech to 'double' the framerate by creating intermediate frames by interpolation, so they won't need to render the games at 90/120fps, but at the half of that.

TLDR: games will look great on PSVR2, a big improvement over PSVR1 and pretty much will look like normal PS5 games including AAA games.

thx for the taking the time to go into further detail on this, it sounds awesome and I understand how it will work now.

really looking forward to psvr2 and can’t wait for them to announce more. If there is enough software I’m there day one. Ive got Alyx for pc so I hope they have plenty of software as we’ll as that for the fans that haven’t had chance to play it yet. Hope it launches this summer.

 

[RJMacready73]

Basically the console (or PC) renders in this case a single 4000x2040 pixel image (8.16M pixels, almost the 8.3M pixels of a normal 4K 3840 x 2160 resolution).

Then for the headset that use 2 displays instead of one (PSVR2 won't be the first to use 2 displays), it shows the left half of this image on the display for the left eye, and the right half of the image on the display for the right eye.

But the console won't need to render at that huge resolution. When your eyes are looking to a specific point you see all the detail of that point, but the stuff far from it, that you aren't looking at it are blurrier, you aren't seeing its detail.

So some PSVR will have a camera for each eye to know where you are looking at, so will render this area with more detail, giving less detail for the stuff you aren't directly looking at. Meaning that they'll focus the horsepower where needed, and that this will help to increase image quality and/or framerate. PSVR1 already had a tech to 'double' the framerate by creating intermediate frames by interpolation, so they won't need to render the games at 90/120fps, but at the half of that.

TLDR: games will look great on PSVR2, a big improvement over PSVR1 and pretty much will look like normal PS5 games including AAA games.

Bit of a stretch there m8, I'm expecting base PS4 possibly Pro levels tbh and if you seen what Sonys 1st party devs can wring out of the O.G. Ps4 that ain't a bad thing considering that imo PSVR1 is PS3 level graphical fidelity but there's no way were getting visual parity with PS5 although i sincerely hope i eat these words!