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[DF] Starfield Reveal Analysis: Next-Gen Scale, But What About Performance?

We know now why the game has been delayed, optimization to get the framerate up to speed. People here are acting like the game released already 🙄 Visually I think they've more than achieved their vision, the artists who brought these worlds to life have done an amazing job. Now get it running great engineers 👍
They have 9+ months of optimization in front of them. Everyone who knows anything about game dev knows that's a shitload of time and that things will massively improve. We don't even know how old the build is that was shown at non-E3. Might be several months old.
 
They have 9+ months of optimization in front of them. Everyone who knows anything about game dev knows that's a shitload of time and that things will massively improve. We don't even know how old the build is that was shown at non-E3. Might be several months old.
Absolutely 💯
 

Three

Member
I don't know what's more interesting. Covering half-assed RT patch to 3.5 year old game or discussing tech behind some of the biggest games of the next 12 months.

Hmmm... :pie_thinking:

There was little to no tech discussion but I mean if it's about tech in games and performance of games released is boring what about others releasing soon. where is the tech talks for RE4, or Street Fighter 6? Callisto Protocol which looked ten times better than Starfield in terms of engine tech and releasing in 2022. They are choosing to cover specific things obviously.
 
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They are basically a MS/Sony buzzfeed at the moment. Ignoring recently released next gen patches in favour of spending time covering everything MS showcase related. It just so happens that MS stuff is 9-12 months out.
I agree ...where is the much needed The Quarry analysis? I've been saying it for a while but DF is too easy on these developers and their vids can come off as fluff pieces. John is actually the worst of the group in being soft on hyped games that have performance issues or glaring omissions
 

Teslerum

Member
They have 9+ months of optimization in front of them. Everyone who knows anything about game dev knows that's a shitload of time and that things will massively improve. We don't even know how old the build is that was shown at non-E3. Might be several months old.
Yeah, but we also know Bethesda.


Don't even have a dog in this fight, more worried about other stuff than performance and bugs (which don't usually bother me as much in general).
 
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Mercador

Member
We have ZERO IDEA of what build or STAGE of DEVELOPMENT this footage was from. I doubt it was from their latest stuff.

As the other person said, it's TOO EARLY TO TELL what the final product will look like right now.

This is bad content from DF, they just want to jump on the Starfield hype train for Youtube views.

They used to be about clarity and trustworthy content, this is the equivalent of a grocery store gossip rag of video game content.
I hope you are right but I fear I'm right.
 

Corndog

Member
Bait GIF

I already gave my two cents on this subject. DF and everyone else saw performance was rough. This is not trolling, is reality.
As I don’t have anything to add to this thread and I don’t want to engage in this futile back and forth with you, I’m putting the thread on ignore.
Bullcrap. You know you’re trolling and want to go hide under your bridge.
 

Quantum253

Member
I'm watching now. I do have some minor concerns about the gun mechanics. I don't why, and it may only be me, but I find hand-to-hand combat feels great (Oblivion/Skyrim) but gunplay feels off (Fallout) in Bethesda games. Having VATs in Fallout helped gunplay feel better but ADS and hip firing didn't feel good. Seeing the trailer it all seems ADS/Hip firing. I hope it feels better or at least something that will take getting used to.
 
The scale. It would probably turn into a cyberpunk on last gen consoles travesty.
Not if there was a load screen everywhere you go: take off, landing, entering and exiting a city (unconfirmed), entering a cave etc etc..this is a bethesda game after all. The only thing that would be 'next gen' would be how big the space battles you get into.
 

Sosokrates

Member
Not if there was a load screen everywhere you go: take off, landing, entering and exiting a city (unconfirmed), entering a cave etc etc..this is a bethesda game after all. The only thing that would be 'next gen' would be how big the space battles you get into.
Better off using an xbox one to play it on the cloud imo.
 

anothertech

Member
No, not really. Rendering wise its a full blown PBR model that takes better account of its materials than Fallout 76/Fallout 4 did.

What is notable, is the aforementioned animation and eye-rendering. This looks incredibly similar to previous experiences and is really a pet peeve on Bethesda's end. In a world where characters now make subtle eye movements and little twitches to convey micro-emotions, Starfield's blank stare characters stand out.
Maybe it's an art style thing, or just the limitations of the engine they are using but if the background and environments truly look like they showed, the character designs standing in them look completely out if place.

Yes, the small details as you describe add to it, but honestly the faces and animations look worse than some we've seen on decades old hardware. And that's on high end next gen settings supposedly.

Which is currently why some people are calling the visuals shit

(Even though they'll probably play it anyhow)
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
There was little to no tech discussion but I mean if it's about tech in games and performance of games released is boring what about others releasing soon. where is the tech talks for RE4, or Street Fighter 6? Callisto Protocol which looked ten times better than Starfield in terms of engine tech and releasing in 2022. They are choosing to cover specific things obviously.

Agreed! Where is the performance video for ROGUE LEGACY! Why haven't they discussed the the console differences of TMNT! Why are they only focusing on huge games, with huge audiences and interest that has ignited conversation across a number of topics!
 
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Pagusas

Elden Member
this is one of those games where I think i’ll just turn a blind eye to Gaf on, as I know there will be tons of people diving in day one who just have no business playing a Bethesda game, they should never touch it, cause all they will find is flaws with it as it doesn’t do what they want or expect. I’ve grown up with there games, Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim are all in my top 10 for different reasons, I 100% know what to expect from Starfield and go on excited for what it will be, not what it won’t be. Luckily there are lots of places to talk about the game with fans, so i’m very excited about that.
 

anothertech

Member
Agreed! Where is the performance video for ROGUE LEGACY! Why haven't they discussed the the console differences of TMNT! Why are they only focusing on huge games, with huge audiences and interest that has ignited conversation across a number of topics!
lol they know their audience
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
this is one of those games where I think i’ll just turn a blind eye to Gaf on, as I know there will be tons of people diving in day one who just have no business playing a Bethesda game, they should never touch it, cause all they will find is flaws with it as it doesn’t do what they want or expect. I’ve grown up with there games, Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim are all in my top 10 for different reasons, I 100% know what to expect from Starfield and go on excited for what it will be, not what it won’t be. Luckily there are lots of places to talk about the game with fans, so i’m very excited about that.


Oh don't worry, almost all the naysayers here will be playing it at launch as well.

It's the "ban Modern Warfare 2" meme IRL.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Wasn't Forza running on a PC? I don't recall them mentioning anything about any game specifically running on XSX. Kojima rendered with ML!? Lifelike!
it was. But it was shown in the first hour. Right around the hour mark, they announced that everything onwards running in xsx.
 
That's never steered us wrong

I love the witcher 3...but the world was completely static...no game has as many dynamic elements as a bethesda game in the industry where everything can be interacted with. NPC's with routines, objects that can be placed and left there over hours...the witcher felt more like a play where you couldnt do anything to the world outside of the story. Why i need my bethesda fix...you feel IN the world like no other game.
 

NahaNago

Member
The game is coming out in almost a year so they have plenty of time to work on performance. Granted I also think the game will still be a buggy mess on release. Expect a typical Bethesda game set in futuristic sci fi space faring setting.
 

Three

Member
Agreed! Where is the performance video for ROGUE LEGACY! Why haven't they discussed the the console differences of TMNT! Why are they only focusing on huge games, with huge audiences and interest that has ignited conversation across a number of topics!

Not sure if this was sarcasm but that's what I mean. Like a buzzfeed. I was agreeing with the other person that they aren't providing the relevant recent performance comparisons because they are sticking to the MS/Sony topics that have generated discussions even if the game is possibly a year away. Somebody said the recently released RE next gen RT patches are underwhelming too but I mean they covered a patch which they said was 'just a sharpening filter' because... well because buzzfeed.

It's less about doing meaningful comparisons for recent games and more about buzz and clicks. That's how I feel about the situation.
 
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reksveks

Member
Somebody said the recently released RE next gen RT patches are underwhelming too but I mean they covered a patch which they said was 'just a sharpening filter' because... well because buzzfeed.

Also its a business so naturally they are incentivized a bit by what they think is going to drive eye balls. This doesn't massively change under a Patreon model.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
this is one of those games where I think i’ll just turn a blind eye to Gaf on, as I know there will be tons of people diving in day one who just have no business playing a Bethesda game, they should never touch it, cause all they will find is flaws with it as it doesn’t do what they want or expect. I’ve grown up with there games, Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim are all in my top 10 for different reasons, I 100% know what to expect from Starfield and go on excited for what it will be, not what it won’t be. Luckily there are lots of places to talk about the game with fans, so i’m very excited about that.
It’s the same thing for all popular games, highlighting the negatives, creating weird concerns. There has even been people trying to push meta 96 Elden Ring off the throne for having too much content and too much freedom or whatever. It’s tiresome but that’s how it goes. Some people just can’t handle other people enjoying hyped up things no matter how great they are. It’ll most definitely happen for Starfield as well, youtube will be flooded by videos showing the odd quirkiness coming from the procedural generation, bugs, the NMS talk will continue, etc etc. I don’t ignore it but it doesn’t affect my own enjoyment. I played and enjoyed NMS at launch 🤷‍♂️
 

GenericUser

Member
Game is probably entering the polishing phase by now. It's common knowledge that most of the performance optimizations happen during the last stages of the development. I expect the game to almost hit solid 30fps on series x. I mean, the console is quiet powerful.
 

Ozriel

Member
Just a joke

On topic it's best to wait for reviews imo on this game. No harm in waiting one extra day and see if it's worth it all

When did the last major Bethesda RPG tank in reviews?

That's never steered us wrong


When the Witcher was revealed, The PS4 and Xbox One were miles behind what state of the art PCs could pull off…especially with respect to CPU performance.

The current gen flagships are RTX 2080 Tier with Zen 2 CPUs. There’s not that much room for smoke and mirrors right now.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
What a brilliant video and a huge jump over fallout 4.

I hope they can iron out the performance issues and hopefully add a 1440p 60fps mode.

Seriously impressive game. After hundreds of hours in fallout 4 and fallout 3, oblivion etc....i absolutely can not wait for the next big Bethesda game. I have faith this will be incredible for me.
 
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yamaci17

Member
Not the best thing to say in 2022 if you ask me…

Fortunately it’s on PC too, I expect nothing less than 60fps or I’ll upgrade until that’s doable.
it will target solid 60 fps at 1080p/1200p

these people are delusional. no need to heed anything they say. clearly they showed 30 fps/4k on trailers because they want to present graphics in their best form (4k resolution). if it was 1200p/60 fps mode, it would look blurry, less detailed, which would even create bigger crowds, shitting on game all day (as if they don't already) [unless they add the deceptive sharpened filter which guerilla developers used ingeniously to turn their game into horizon: sharpened west)
 
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Ozriel

Member
Not the best thing to say in 2022 if you ask me…

Fortunately it’s on PC too, I expect nothing less than 60fps or I’ll upgrade until that’s doable.

CPU and GPU performance of Series X are good enough to expect a 60fps mode there if it’s 60fps on PC.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
it will target solid 60 fps at 1080p/1200p

these people are delusional. no need to heed anything they say. clearly they showed 30 fps/4k on trailers because they want to present graphics in their best form (4k resolution). if it was 1200p/60 fps mode, it would look blurry, less detailed, which would even create bigger crowds, shitting on game all day (as if they don't already)
I wouldn’t bet on that, there is an IGN interview from maybe a year ago where Todd says that for their games he prefer 30fps with added fidelity.

To be fair it could work, if the game is slow, and the walking and flying seems slow.

The problem is the shooting…
Does anybody want first person shooting at 30fps today? I can’t see that. Every first person shooter is 60fps now.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
CPU and GPU performance of Series X are good enough to expect a 60fps mode there if it’s 60fps on PC.
Impossible to say when it’s a new version of their engine that might be doing a bunch of new stuff they haven’t detailed yet. Expect 30fps until they officially say anything else. There is no last gen consoles keeping the use of resources in check this time.
 
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GenericUser

Member
Not the best thing to say in 2022 if you ask me…

Fortunately it’s on PC too, I expect nothing less than 60fps or I’ll upgrade until that’s doable.
Console games that do not rely on high framrates will always target 30 fps. Devs know that eye candy sells, so they will always prefer nice graphics over high fps (except, as I said, games that benefit very very much from higher fps, like racing games). If you want high fps + the best graphics, you'll always have to get a PC. A 500$ toy cannot compete with a 3 or 4K$ PC.
 

yamaci17

Member
Impossible to say when it’s a new version of their engine that might be doing a bunch of new stuff they haven’t detailed yet. Expect 30fps until they officially say anything else. There is no last gen consoles keeping the use of resources in check this time.
then they'd shoot their own foot

even midrange 5600x+3070 will easily do 1080p maybe 1200p 60 fps in this game. if the console is handicapped by 30 fps, it will be a very BAD press for xbox series consoles.

this game is supposed to be THE CONSOLE SELLER game. if it was a multiplat, no one would care (like skyrim. it was 30 fps on ps3/x360 and you could play it at 60 fps with a decent rig back then. even my below than decent pc managed to do 720p 50 fps back then. with a very old graphic cards. hd 4550 or something like that)

but now... this game is "console exclusive" for a console that only has %15-25 userbase (rough estimation). there's no room for errors and mishaps like that. a theoritical ps5 user that really wants to play starfield would happily buy a s/x if it would be 60 fps. but why buy a console for a game that will run at 30 fps when you can build a decent rig for 1k and play the game to its full potential 60 fps + mods + stuff? console has to:

- provide locked flawless 60 fps mode
- decent resolution (at least 1200p with decent temporal reconstruction)
- keyboard/mouse support
- decent mod support. cross compatible with PCs, if possible

if the game was multiplat... none of this would have to be achieved. they could do 900p 30 fps and everyone would go bonkers for a bethesda game in this scale

. but now, the game is exclusive to a console that only has a tiny userbase compared to ps5. either it has to be good or it will be dissected and destroyed by press and ps5 userbase. that microsoft money has to amount to something for bethesda.

not to mention it will release day one on PC lol. and with game pass. it has to appeal people towards xbox with positive features. 30 fps only is a big no no
 
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Fredrik

Gold Member
Console games that do not rely on high framrates will always target 30 fps. Devs know that eye candy sells, so they will always prefer nice graphics over high fps (except, as I said, games that benefit very very much from higher fps, like racing games). If you want high fps + the best graphics, you'll always have to get a PC. A 500$ toy cannot compete with a 3 or 4K$ PC.
I don’t know, 30fps is getting uncommon. There were some people early in the gen prefering Ratchet, Demon’s Souls, Miles Morales at 30fps, I think DF even preferred 30fps in Forza Horizon 5, and I talked with people preferring the 30fps mode in Horizon Forbidden West as well.
But games with first person shooting? Can you list a single one? That’s definitely a gameplay style that benefit from a higher fps.
So, I guess Bethesda need to nail the third person mode.
 

yamaci17

Member
I don’t know, 30fps is getting uncommon. There were some people early in the gen prefering Ratchet, Demon’s Souls, Miles Morales at 30fps, I think DF even preferred 30fps in Forza Horizon 5, and I talked with people preferring the 30fps mode in Horizon Forbidden West as well.
But games with first person shooting? Can you list a single one? That’s definitely a gameplay style that benefit from a higher fps.
So, I guess Bethesda need to nail the third person mode.
cyberpunk has a 30 fps mode

the 60 fps/120 fps shooters you talk about are mostly linear

although cyberpunk also has a 60 fps mode so i dont know if that counts

there are certain playstyles in cyberpunk that makes 30 fps gameplay compeltely fine:

- ninja stealth build
- ninja katana or Z blade build (u just press and jump on people. not so much aiming)
- quickhack build
- super smart weapon build (weapon has auto aim integrated into it and it has a fully fledged skill tree for it)

i played cpunk2077 at locked 40 fps with a z-blade+stealth hybrid build. it was pretty fun. probably could do with 30 fps too. its not like ure shooting actual people and most npc enemies are dumb and easy to beat with juking anyways

still tho, the smoothness of 60 fps is something else for FPS shooters. i even crave for 120 with any shooter. but open world shooter and doom eternal as a shooter are completely seperate things. it is reailly easy to hit 120 with lineer shooters. it is practically impossible to lock to a locked 120 fps in cyberpunk even if you have a beast rig. maybe a 5900x+3090 build can lock to 1080p/120.

. but i still would like to play starfield at 60 fps on a sx console. im on PC but that does not change the fact that even I would like the xbox sx users to have enjoy it at 60 fps.

look at horizon sharpened west: 1200p+sharpening worked wonders for people. 1200p+no sharpen+bad TAA caused DF to say that they preferred 30 fps. now they'd too prefer 60 fps mode, probably.

1200p+sharpening+decent reconstruction seems like a decent solution for TV+console combo. im seeing no reason why they wouldn't do that.

they can push all the the fidelity they want. you really think they'll target 1440p/30 fps or smthn? trailer was clearly rendered at native, pristine 4k. it was clear, crisp, with no artificial sharpening artifacts present. reduce the resolution down to 1100-1200p, voila, you are primed for 60 fps.

if.. they can't get zen 2 3.8 ghz to run this game at 60 fps, then i'd call the optimization of the game pathetic.
 
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Fredrik

Gold Member
then they'd shoot their own foot

even midrange 5600x+3070 will easily do 1080p maybe 1200p 60 fps in this game. if the console is handicapped by 30 fps, it will be a very BAD press for xbox series consoles.

this game is supposed to be THE CONSOLE SELLER game. if it was a multiplat, no one would care (like skyrim. it was 30 fps on ps3/x360 and you could play it at 60 fps with a decent rig back then. even my below than decent pc managed to do 720p 50 fps back then. with a very old graphic cards. hd 4550 or something like that)

but now... this game is "console exclusive" for a console that only has %15-25 userbase (rough estimation). there's no room for errors and mishaps like that. a theoritical ps5 user that really wants to play starfield would happily buy a s/x if it would be 60 fps. but why buy a console for a game that will run at 30 fps when you can build a decent rig for 1k and play the game to its full potential 60 fps + mods + stuff? console has to:

- provide locked flawless 60 fps mode
- decent resolution (at least 1200p with decent temporal reconstruction)
- keyboard/mouse support
- decent mod support. cross compatible with PCs, if possible

if the game was multiplat... none of this would have to be achieved. they could do 900p 30 fps and everyone would go bonkers for a bethesda game in this scale

. but now, the game is exclusive to a console that only has a tiny userbase compared to ps5. either it has to be good or it will be dissected and destroyed by press and ps5 userbase. that microsoft money has to amount to something for bethesda.

not to mention it will release day one on PC lol. and with game pass. it has to appeal people towards xbox with positive features. 30 fps only is a big no no
If you’ve payed any attention at all to the talks you’d see that PS5 users are actually more okay with 30fps than Xbox users, and has been enjoying 40fps as well. So I doubt that’ll be a talking point for console warring.
 

yamaci17

Member
If you’ve payed any attention at all to the talks you’d see that PS5 users are actually more okay with 30fps than Xbox users, and has been enjoying 40fps as well. So I doubt that’ll be a talking point for console warring.
hmm majority of people i've seen prefers 60 fps wherever it is possible. i also love 30 fps and 40 fps. i just say that the console should have a performance mode. i dont say it shouldn't have a quality mode? halo infinite is semi open world and has a functional 120 fps mode!
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
hmm majority of people i've seen prefers 60 fps wherever it is possible. i also love 30 fps and 40 fps. i just say that the console should have a performance mode. i dont say it shouldn't have a quality mode? halo infinite is semi open world and has a functional 120 fps mode!
Yeah I’m hoping for a performance mode as well, I’m just saying that people shouldn’t expect it, there is nothing said about this.
Starfield is a next gen only game, most games this console gen has a last gen version too so the base line has been lower for the engine.
Look at MS Flight Sim. The Medium. Unreal Engine 5 demo.
 
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