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DF - Super Mario 3D All-Star Tech Review

Fake

Fake

Member


A celebration of three excellent Mario games, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy have all arrived for Nintendo Switch in a single time-limited release package. But just how good are the remasters - and are they actually emulated?
Click to expand...

Summary:

- Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 runs at 30 fps, while Galaxy runs at 60
- Mario Galaxy runs using dynamic resolution at 1080p
- Sunshine runs at 1080p using 16:9 aspect ratio
- Mario 64 still at 4:3 with borders
- Both versions have some minor dips here and there
- No sight of proper Anti-Alisiang (AA)
- John mention that even Mario 64 for Nintendo 64 have AA
- Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine suffers from frame pacing issue
- Still runs better than the Nintendo 64 version and the horrible Wii U emulated version
- Speaking of, no sight of input latency on 64 in comparison with the infamouns Wii U
- Sunshine get a better HUD just like Mario 64
- The Mario 64 have a delay trying to reproduce some sound effects
- Mario 64 have some muffer sound as well in some cases
- Improve on texture via some sort of reconstruct tech
- Galaxy suffer some problem trying to reproduce colors (John said is distrating)
- John call them a mix bag, but still enjoyable experience in comparison with previous official versions. He indeed expect better, but still fair enough.
- Overall: Mario Galaxy > Mario Sunshine > Mario 64
 
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#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Not as good as PC emulator upgrades but still try looks incredible. I can’t wait to play. The resolution bump on Sunshine alone is a game changer.
 
Kazza

Kazza

Member
The word "disappointing" appears several times in this technical overview. It's obvious that John loves the games, which probably makes this lazy effort all the more disappointing to him.
 
iconmaster

iconmaster

Banned
Ah, Sunshine uses the extra shoulder button to reproduce the analog input to a degree. Weak water spray versus strong.

Sounds like the input latency is not an issue, but that audio delay on 64 is unfortunate.

A surprising number of HD touchups to HUD elements and textures across all three games.

Galaxy continues to look amazing, of course.
 
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Stuart360

Stuart360

Member
Been watching someone stream the unofficial Mario 64 PC version, complete with true to the orig vision texture mods, and it looks amazing, like Crash and Spyro level remaster.
It pains me to see Nitendo treat their own games, especially a landmark game like Mario 64, so poorly.
 
Moonjt9

Moonjt9

Member
Looks like they went more for faithful ports instead of a big time remake. Sunshine looks like the biggest beneficiary. Can’t wait to 100% this collection
 
StormCell

StormCell

Member
Fake said:
How can the Mario 64 for Nintendo 64, a game release in 1996, have a Anti-Aaliasing and this not?
Click to expand...

Seems like the kind of thing a patch can fix.

xviper said:
A port of a 24 year old game is still 30FPS, That is a new level of laziness.
Click to expand...

Sounds like they would have had to have recompiled 64 and Sunshine in order to support it. Could they have made the effort? Sure. Could they have done it this year? Possibly not. The only game receiving significant amounts of coding is the one that got bumped from Holiday release to early 2021 (3D World)--I don't think that's a coincidence.
 
Spokker

Spokker

Member
Today, I shall remind them.

news.yahoo.com

Nintendo's profits climb more than 400 percent amid coronavirus lockdowns

The coronavirus pandemic isn't taking much of a toll on Nintendo, which just had a massively successful quarter.The company on Thursday reported $1.37 billion in operating profit from April to June, up more than 400 percent from a year ago and significantly more than expected, while its sales...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com

You are now reminded. It's okay when Nintendo does it.
 
StormCell

StormCell

Member
Fake said:
I don't think so. Nintendo Switch games has fame of not having AA. I don't even know some game with no AA get a patch for add AA on NS.
Click to expand...

That's also a good point. Ever since the Wii, Nintendo has ignorantlyboldly displayed their lower resolutions in all their pixelated glory. -eye roll- :)
 
GamesAreFun

GamesAreFun

Banned
Digital Foundry provides a review & tech analysis of the remasters.



Summary:
  • Mario 64 is 30fps (more stable than original), with some better textures at 720p, and minor sound issues (lag & quieter). Game is unfortunately still 4:3, not changed to widescreen.
  • Sunshine is 30fps at 1080p, with some better textures, 16:9 widescreen instead of 4:3, smaller HUD
  • Galaxy is 60fps at dynamic 1080p, with minor colour banding on the "glow" effect. HUD textures are now high-resolution.
Sunshine has seen the biggest upgrade, widescreen makes a big improvement.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
bender

bender

What time is it?
I hope Nintendo works on addressing some of the performance issues and maybe includes additional options. This collection sounds middling.
 
Kuranghi

Kuranghi

Member
Not sure what John is going on about with Super Mario Galaxy being 900-1080p, my copy outputs a 4K w/ 2xSSAA:

title_by_cdamjc-d8r8evb.png


My HUD & UI is way sharper too, I must've gotten a special copy or something :goog_tongue:

Obviously I'm being a cheeky man but just trying to make a point about how this is kinda low effort. I know that Switch hardware isn't capable of 4K let alone 8K downsampling but they could've at least matched the texture work done by fans for free + locked down that framerate, which I presume would be as easy as lowering the minimum res to ~810p.

Having render-to-texture effects (Mostly obviously shadows but other effects too) properly scale with resolution really improves the experience and dithering is a MUST for the gradients John mentions, its really distracting without it at 4K, but still highly visible at 900-1080p evidently.

If you havent tried Dolphin in a few years then definitely get back on it, the shader stuttering is completely gone now (providing you have decent HW ofc), its basically perfect apart from the motion controls but even that is nearly there, you can map wiimote shake to a button just fine and the IR can be put on right analogue for starbit firing.

The only issue I have is tilt for Wild Glide, (And some other moments I think but not got that far yet), but I hate that level anyway.
 
spookyfish

spookyfish

Member
After seeing the Super Mario 64 level in Odyssey, it's going to be hard going back to this. THAT'S the Mario 64 I want -- levels remastered in that engine. EDIT: Don't misunderstand -- my copy arrived from Amazon a few minutes ago, and I'm looking forward to it. But, yeah: it's low-effort.
 
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S

Self High Five

Member
#Phonepunk# said:
me whenever i see someone mention Dolphin and emulators like they are some new thing

interesting-tell-me-5b8189.jpg
Click to expand...

Sure. Any mid range PC from 5 years ago is able to run Galaxy 1/2 & Sunshine at 1080p at a better framerate using dolphin.

SM64 has been available on the Wii U for years at only $10 (Not dolphin related, but I thought I throw it out there).

Enjoy your full priced 10-20 year old emulated 'ports'.
 
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-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
It's unfortunate that on top of the lack of above-and-beyond, there's minor issues. Most are covered in the OP (which, I should mention, the color banding seems to be occasional and not too big a deal), but there's also slight frame pacing issues not present in original 64 or Sunshine, and 64 filters it's textures in a way that apparently changes the original intended look. This is not stuff that most will care about, but it is notable.

All of this leads to a package that, while more than satisfactory for playing some awesome Mario classics on the Switch, doesn't feel assembled with the same level of care and love that made these games so legendary in the first place.

That's disappointing.

But, the fact remains, that if you do want to do that, enjoy some awesome Mario classics on your Switch, this collection is more than up to the job, and you should have a wonderful time.

It's a strange mix of, I'm so, so excited to play Sunshine tomorrow, yet being let down by this being a little rushed and un-Nintendo-like, in comparison to their new games.
 
-Arcadia-

-Arcadia-

Banned
I do want to say that I appreciate Nintendo going back and actually sprucing up Sunshine. I knew something looked quite a bit better, beyond even HD and widescreen.

Likewise, for replacing all the super blurry 2D stuff in Mario 64. That stuff looked rough, even as of the Wii, and the paintings arguably always looked bad, lol.

Although I am amused that Nintendo clearly seemed to use that AI upscaling on the paintings. I mean, whatever, it looks better, but I identified it before John even mentioned it in the video.
 
Lionel Richie

Lionel Richie

Member
H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
spookyfish said:
After seeing the Super Mario 64 level in Odyssey, it's going to be hard going back to this. THAT'S the Mario 64 I want -- levels remastered in that engine. EDIT: Don't misunderstand -- my copy arrived from Amazon a few minutes ago, and I'm looking forward to it. But, yeah: it's low-effort.
Click to expand...

You lucky bastard - mine doesn’t arrive til tomorrow :(
 
Mozza

Mozza

Member
Lionel Richie said:
Reminds me of an all time great article back when Mini consoles were a hit:

thehardtimes.net

Why Spend $80 on an SNES Classic When You Can Install Emulators on a Raspberry Pi and Never Shut the Fuck Up About It?

Nintendo’s highly coveted SNES Classic Mini system comes out today and is certain to be a hot item. A word of advice to gamers who…
thehardtimes.net thehardtimes.net
Click to expand...

It's the minorities up in arms again, Digital Foundry has a million subscribers, so all this moaning will make absolutely no difference to the games sales, the main Switch audience will simply buy and have fun with these games, while some of the internet posting forum minorities will be complaining about frame rates and lack of new textures, just goes to demonstrate how much we are out of touch with what motivates the wider mass market into buying games.
 
Last edited:
Y

YCoCg

Member
The reason people bring up emulators is because THEY DO IT BETTER, yet Nintendo are that focused on trying to get them shut down they don't realise the potential they're letting go to waste, all the issues mentioned in this video have already been done for emulators for years, Nintendo could've put some work in and at the very least took what code was already done (SM64 in Widescreen, Sunshine in 60fps) and used them for this.

And let's not even get started about the recompiled version of SM64 which has been shown running at 1080p60 on the Switch in Docked Mode and 720p60 in Handheld! The complaints are mainly WANTING Nintendo to at the very least try and match the improvements that have already been done and openly available.
 
ShadowLag

ShadowLag

Member
I'm gonna echo what a lot of others have already said here -
  • Mario, the most famous game franchise of all time and the one that built Nintendo as we know them today, deserved MUCH BETTER for a 35th anniversary event.
  • Billion dollar global corporation and this is all they bothered to do etc. etc.
That said, the games themselves even though they're emulated are an improvement over the originals while still keeping the actual content identical... so it's not a totally worthless product. Should've been $40-50 instead of $60... and why the hell is it a timed release, even for digital? Absolutely mind bogglingly insane.

"WE DON'T WANT YOU GIVING US MONEY TO PLAY OUR MARIO GAMES ANY MORE, GO AWAY" - Nintendo, March 31st 2021
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Fake said:




Summary:

- Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 runs at 30 fps, while Galaxy runs at 60
- Mario Galaxy runs using dynamic resolution at 1080p
- Sunshine runs at 1080p using 16:9 aspect ratio
- Mario 64 still at 4:3 with borders
- Both versions have some minor dips here and there
- No sight of proper Anti-Alisiang (AA)
- John mention that even Mario 64 for Nintendo 64 have AA
- Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine suffers from frame pacing issue
- Still runs better than the Nintendo 64 version and the horrible Wii U emulated version
- Speaking of, no sight of input latency on 64 in comparison with the infamouns Wii U
- Sunshine get a better HUD just like Mario 64
- The Mario 64 have a delay trying to reproduce some sound effects
- Mario 64 have some muffer sound as well in some cases
- Improve on texture via some sort of reconstruct tech
- Galaxy suffer some problem trying to reproduce colors (John said is distrating)
- John call them a mix bag, but still enjoyable experience in comparison with previous official versions. He indeed expect better, but still fair enough.
- Overall: Mario Galaxy > Mario Sunshine > Mario 64
Click to expand...


One thing missing that John mentioned: texture filtering is standard four samples bi-linear and not the custom three samples one SGI implemented in the RSP which N64 titles were optimised for this changing the texture filtering results a bit and they could have done that in the shaders like DOOM64 did in the KEX based console port earlier in the year.

Oh another couple of things: 1.) heat screen distortion effect and other render to texture effects are running at higher resolution on SMS but that does change how the heat haze effect appears on Switch (although it improves reflections) 2.) higher resolution rendering but lack of changes in the LOD system in SM64 mean that the game will not look the way people remember on the old low res CRT TV’s (people back then could not see the lowest LOD Mario model clearly so the trick worked, now it does not anymore... this is a case where changing the game from 100% exact emulation is what you need to do to ensure you preserve how the final result was meant to be perceived).
 
Senua

Senua

Member
You've gota be a complete sucker to buy this collection, so i'm sure nintendo fans will lap it up. I guess this is why Nintendo won't do proper remakes, they don't need to.
 
carlosrox

carlosrox

Banned
Senua said:
You've gota be a complete sucker to buy this collection, so i'm sure nintendo fans will lap it up. I guess this is why Nintendo won't do proper remakes, they don't need to.
Click to expand...

Sunshine and Galaxy in particular look fucking great on this so nope.
 
carlosrox

carlosrox

Banned
Senua said:
Sunshine is still 30fps with no new textures or anything. Paying full price for emulation.
Click to expand...

Some of the textures are touched up so this is false. And it looks fucking great without significant improvements thanks to the resolution these old games output at. Mario 64 at 720p looks sharp as hell. Sunshine and Galaxy at 1080p likewise.

Not every collection/port has to be remade from the ground up. Is this your first HD collection ever?

Can't believe the fucking outrage over this collection, Jesus fuck.

As long as people can pull the stick out of their ass, they'll appreciate that these actually all look great. They all look super clean and they get better with each game. Galaxy definitely looks the best. Playing on my LG CX and it looks amazing.

If anything deserves complaints it would be the lack of control options, not the visuals.
 
Y

YCoCg

Member
carlosrox said:
Not every collection/port has to be remade from the ground up
Click to expand...
But that's the thing, they wouldn't even have to start from the ground! The work has already been done by modders. Code to make SM64 in Widescreen has existed for years, the patch for Sunshine to make it 60fps has also been around for years. It's there for the taking and could have easily been adapted to this.
 
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