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[Men_in_Boxes]

I'm a **** writer so I'll make this as brief as possible...

T or F: Multiplayer game design reached a new paradigm ~5 years ago?

THE OLD PARADIGM: Sport

- Small maps + small player count.
- Singular point based objective.
- Reliance on mechanical skill, reflex, ability.
- Short rounds. (~10 minutes)
- No permanence.
- 50% chance of winning.
- Tactics without strategy.

Examples: Street Fighter, Quake, StarCraft, Goldeneye, Smash Bros, Halo, Call of Duty...
Genres: Fighters, Racing, Arena shooters, Sports

Fencing is a sport that exists from whistle to whistle. It's 100% action where combatants are always at risk. Participants typically have ~50% chance of winning because skill levels are supposedly matched.



THE NEW PARADIGM: Story

- Large worlds + large player counts.
- Multiple, player set objectives.
- Asymmetrical abilities.
- Long rounds. (30 min and up)
- Lots of permanence.
- Very small chance of winning.
- Strategy + tactics.

Examples: World of Warcraft, Rust, PUBG, Minecraft, Escape from Tarkov.
Genres: Battle Royale, Survival, MMORPG, Co-op.

Star Wars is a story that's 10% combat and 90% non combat. The 90% consists of players with different abilities repositioning for the climactic battles (the 10%). It's Luke discovering who he is, making alliances, and gathering resources to put himself in position to save the galaxy...though the odds are not in his favor.

As with all large trends/eras, there's never a clean break. Multiplayer story games existed and thrived 20+ years ago and some multiplayer sport games thrive today. The analogy I liken it to is locomotive eras.

- In 1875, everyone uses horses.
- In 1886, the first car was invented.
- In 1891, Horse breeders unanimously say "Cars ain't ****! Horse sales are great!"
- In 1927, Henry Fords Model A arrives.
- In 1929, Horse breeders are still doing quite well.
- In 1946, Horse breeders unanimously say "Those cars f***ed us."

Over the last 5 years, it seems like the majority of successful new multiplayer releases are STORY multiplayer games rather than SPORTS multiplayer. Is this a trend you see as continuing or perhaps widening, as players flock to these game types more and more?

2016: Titanfall 2 vs Destiny
2017: Lawbreakers vs Fortnite
2021: Knockout City vs Valheim
2022: Roller Champions vs Naraka Bladepoint

So what say you NeoGAF? Has multiplayer entered a new era or is this all a crock of ****?




Credit to Guilty_AI for inspiring this thread.

 

[AV]

Answering your own question by listing WoW as the first example of the "new paradigm". Game came out in 2004 and wasn't exactly the first MMO.

 

[The_Mike]

Battle royale ruined the fps genre.

The end

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Answering your own question by listing WoW as the first example of the "new paradigm". Game came out in 2004 and wasn't exactly the first MMO.

I guess I see it like this.

The scales were still tipped in SPORTS multiplayers favor in terms of overall popularity.

MMORPGS weren't on console, which was the dominant form of gaming 20 years ago and I'd wager than the vast majority of other successful multiplayer games on PC were SPORT releases.

I think 2017 is when the scales tipped in the other direction for the first time.

 

[March Climber]

Answering your own question by listing WoW as the first example of the "new paradigm". Game came out in 2004 and wasn't exactly the first MMO.

Agreed, OP should have put Day Z.

 

[Stuart360]

I dont know about story MP but BR games have def changed the MP landscape over the last few years.
Arena shooters (even though i still like them) are starting to feel old hat for a lot of people, i see comments about that all the time on places like Steam and Reddit etc. It also doesnt help when you have multiple big streamers like DrDisespect continuing to tell everyone BR is where its at and arena shooters are old news.

The question for me is are BR games here to stay, or will something else come along to take over. Maybe Tarkov and Tarkov extraction style games. I mean DOC is building one and Tarkov is ridiculously popular.

 

[RyRy93]

The new paradigm is basically BR style games, the other examples are older

 

[Filben]

WoW new paradigm?

I agree with BR games though.

Arena shooters? This shit doesn't make the cut with the youngsters these days.

 

[Calverz]

Fortnite is a cancer

 

[kyliethicc]

sure fortnite and some others influenced mainstream online mp design going forward

not that deep tho. always happens like that, always will

 

[The Cockatrice]

I miss Unreal Tournament.

 

[The_Mike]

I miss Unreal Tournament.

Ut99 was great.

Rest of then was bad

 

[HTK]

Old style MP games were getting boring it also doesn’t help that their execution has gotten worse when comparing to older versions of those games.

For example Call of Duty MPs have gotten worse in the last 3-4 years not better with all that experience. However the BR brought something completely fresh and new to the fan base.

Both will obviously exist in the future but both will need to execute on a high level to keep the fan base satisfied.

I think all of these MP Modes can thrive if you have a competent studio that can execute well.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

As someone with a family I really miss short rounds like Heroes of the Storm, when the game lasts 10-12 minutes tops. Everything nowadays drags so much...

 

[Damigos]

Multiplayer is one thing, MMOs another thing

 

[The_Mike]

Old style MP games were getting boring it also doesn’t help that their execution has gotten worse when comparing to older versions of those games.

I don't know. Being a player who has fps as main genre for over 15 years, I just can't find the excitement over been tossed out from a bus, scavenge a lot of shit just to get killed by a more lucky cunt that got a better weapon.

It's just so much more fun for me to actually kill people, that's what a fps is for me.

I will never, no matter how many BRs there's gonna be, enjoy a 20 minute n one life game.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Apex Legends is the true revolution in multiplayer games. It's a hero shooter with 4 massive (5 soon) maps and it's got an arena elimination mode. 22 different characters to choose from which all got different perks.

- and it's an eSports game where the competitors are 50/50 MnK and controller players.

 

[HTK]

I don't know. Being a player who has fps as main genre for over 15 years, I just can't find the excitement over been tossed out from a bus, scavenge a lot of shit just to get killed by a more lucky cunt that got a better weapon.

It's just so much more fun for me to actually kill people, that's what a fps is for me.

I will never, no matter how many BRs there's gonna be, enjoy a 20 minute n one life game.

I get it, I’m primarily an FPS player and I enjoy competitive gaming. I wish CoD would have a solid SnD maps, balance etc… I’m not into Valorant and I have about 2K hours into CSGO but I’m too old to grind that game since each match is like 30 to 40 minutes.

I enjoy the BR because even if there are some random things out of your control I think if you’re good and consistent you can still be a top player. Wish there was a ranked mode in Warzone and I wish the devs would actually implement better changes.

 

[64bitmodels]

Third option. You listed world of warcraft and minecraft as games that started this change, one of them is 10 years old and the other is almost 20 years old

These games have existed for a while but it wasn't until pubg and fortnite popularized it that it truly accelerated into hyperdrive

 

[The_Mike]

I get it, I’m primarily an FPS player and I enjoy competitive gaming. I wish CoD would have a solid SnD maps, balance etc… I’m not into Valorant and I have about 2K hours into CSGO but I’m too old to grind that game since each match is like 30 to 40 minutes.

I enjoy the BR because even if there are some random things out of your control I think if you’re good and consistent you can still be a top player. Wish there was a ranked mode in Warzone and I wish the devs would actually implement better changes.

Haven't played CoD since MW19.

Infinite scratches that itch the first month, now I play Destiny 2 for pvp.

I just can't stand that long time between kills. Also why I disliked battlefield besides the squad game mode.

I enjoyed team rumble in Fortnite, but domination is my main game, and there was a season where you couldn't complete battle pass with it so I ditched the game.

For me all BRs are the same, because I hate the core concept of it.

And my favorite genre has taken has been killed because of it.

 

[Wildebeest]

Counterstrike and MOBA dominated competitive gaming and still do. They took over from Quake and Starcraft and are much more team orientated games, although I could not say the formats are longer or necessarily more tactical. Battle Royale is just not a competitive format and is more like a halfway house where there is some tactics, teamwork and outplaying, but you can still play as if you are just messing around and not playing it as a full time career and getting a masters degree in how to farm creep waves or something.

 

[TheDreadLord]

Battle royals pretty much “killed” the “good” multiplayer options. Nowadays it is all about instant gratification and quick matches with little to no consequence of the decisions taken throughout a match.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Answering your own question by listing WoW as the first example of the "new paradigm". Game came out in 2004 and wasn't exactly the first MMO.

Basically what i kept trying to tell him

Me: DUDE, MULTIPLAYER NARRATIVE GAMES ARE OLD AS F@CK

Him:

 

[64bitmodels]

Nowadays it is all about instant gratification and quick matches

That's not even close to the issue with battle royale games. Intact it's the complete opposite, matches take too long and you're spending more time getting stupid resources than actually shooting people.

 

[Larogue]

I've been playing WoW since 2004, I don't know what OP is talking about.

 

[Three]

I'm a **** writer so I'll make this as brief as possible...

T or F: Multiplayer game design reached a new paradigm ~5 years ago?

THE OLD PARADIGM: Sport

- Small maps + small player count.
- Singular point based objective.
- Reliance on mechanical skill, reflex, ability.
- Short rounds. (~10 minutes)
- No permanence.
- 50% chance of winning.
- Tactics without strategy.

Examples: Street Fighter, Quake, StarCraft, Goldeneye, Smash Bros, Halo, Call of Duty...
Genres: Fighters, Racing, Arena shooters, Sports

Fencing is a sport that exists from whistle to whistle. It's 100% action where combatants are always at risk. Participants typically have ~50% chance of winning because skill levels are supposedly matched.



THE NEW PARADIGM: Story

- Large worlds + large player counts.
- Multiple, player set objectives.
- Asymmetrical abilities.
- Long rounds. (30 min and up)
- Lots of permanence.
- Very small chance of winning.
- Strategy + tactics.

Examples: World of Warcraft, Rust, PUBG, Minecraft, Escape from Tarkov.
Genres: Battle Royale, Survival, MMORPG, Co-op.

Star Wars is a story that's 10% combat and 90% non combat. The 90% consists of players with different abilities repositioning for the climactic battles (the 10%). It's Luke discovering who he is, making alliances, and gathering resources to put himself in position to save the galaxy...though the odds are not in his favor.

As with all large trends/eras, there's never a clean break. Multiplayer story games existed and thrived 20+ years ago and some multiplayer sport games thrive today. The analogy I liken it to is locomotive eras.

- In 1875, everyone uses horses.
- In 1886, the first car was invented.
- In 1891, Horse breeders unanimously say "Cars ain't ****! Horse sales are great!"
- In 1927, Henry Fords Model A arrives.
- In 1929, Horse breeders are still doing quite well.
- In 1946, Horse breeders unanimously say "Those cars f***ed us."

Over the last 5 years, it seems like the majority of successful new multiplayer releases are STORY multiplayer games rather than SPORTS multiplayer. Is this a trend you see as continuing or perhaps widening, as players flock to these game types more and more?

2016: Titanfall 2 vs Destiny
2017: Lawbreakers vs Fortnite
2021: Knockout City vs Valheim
2022: Roller Champions vs Naraka Bladepoint

So what say you NeoGAF? Has multiplayer entered a new era or is this all a crock of ****?




Credit to Guilty_AI for inspiring this thread.

Didn't Destiny release in like 2014?

 

[Three]

Answering your own question by listing WoW as the first example of the "new paradigm". Game came out in 2004 and wasn't exactly the first MMO.

I think he is only seeing/noticing the shift due to the recent proliferation of GaaS and not because it didn't exist before.

 

[Lady Jane]

I don't agree with your labeling of "story multiplayer" and the games you assigned to it. That take has so many flaws that it's difficult to break down the rest of your OP. Also your poll options don't leave a lot of room to disagree with you.

 

[HTK]

Battle royals pretty much “killed” the “good” multiplayer options. Nowadays it is all about instant gratification and quick matches with little to no consequence of the decisions taken throughout a match.

No no and no. Multiplayer killed multiplayer because they’ve become worse over the years not any better. Battlefield released two terrible games back to back. CoD hasn’t had a solid multiplayer in 3/4 years. Other multiplayer games worth playing are only on PC.

 

[*Nightwing]

I agree with the sentiment of the OP, but believe in my opinion the issue is far larger and more generalized:

-5-10 years ago gaming meant Console or PC gaming.
-Today cell phone gaming is the largest slice of the gaming market every gaming corp wants to entice.


Using the horse/car analogy:
we older console/PC gamers (traditional OG gamers) are like the horse people, and are waking up and realizing we have be diluted in our strength of market share, and our desires for what gaming should be is irrelevant and drowned out by the plethora of cell phone gamers the industry both now listens to and caters to at our hobbies expense. while we were told back then both markets could coexist and not harm one another, just as horse paths are paved over making them car roads and it was for “everyone” although clearly meant for solely one group. Sure you can walk a horse on a paved road but metal horseshoes and paved gravel both are not good grip as well as damaging to both horseshoe and paved road.

Monitization is what kills the gameplay and monetization is a directly consistent feature of mobile gaming that has infected gaming like a cancer.

The world changed without us adapting, leaving us with corporate cash grabs, live services you have to log in daily or FOMO, FTP that’s completely monetized at every step, and predatory gameplay that exploits those with little self control.

retro gaming is where it’s at… why do you think all they keep making is remakes?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Poll results are surprising. There's hope for you yet NeoGAF!!

Old style MP games were getting boring it also doesn’t help that their execution has gotten worse when comparing to older versions of those games.

For example Call of Duty MPs have gotten worse in the last 3-4 years not better with all that experience. However the BR brought something completely fresh and new to the fan base.

Both will obviously exist in the future but both will need to execute on a high level to keep the fan base satisfied.

I think all of these MP Modes can thrive if you have a competent studio that can execute well.

If you had to guess, how many of the next 10 multiplayer hits will be considered SPORT multiplayer and how many STORY multiplayer?

I wouldn't be surprised if we get 0 from the SPORT category.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Multiplayer used to be a very tight and contained competitive experience for the most part in the pre DayZ/Battle-Royale years. You could usually expect 8-12 maps, a handful of carefully curated modes, and new map packs every 6 months or so that would divide the player-base between haves and have nots which in many cases killed the game's population.

Nowadays, most multiplayer experiences are offered for free but every single item of significance is heavily customizable and every menu screen is actively crafted to advertise in-game currencies which are purchased with real world currency. On top of that, we usually get only 1 or 2 very large maps made for 50+ players at a time with cosmetic updates taking place every season. The focus has shifted entirely from competitive gameplay to grinding for unique/rare loot and clothing items. It's a big reason why most of my time in the past 5 years has transitioned away from multiplayer to single-player RPGs.

 

[TheGecko]

Battle royale ruined the fps genre.

The end

I hate it for what it did to DayZ Alone.

I remember playing it when it first came out, it was like being in a real apocalyptic world, I'd meet strangers, voice chat and exchange items to survive and then be on my way.

Now its just instant kill on site.

 

[HTK]

Poll results are surprising. There's hope for you yet NeoGAF!!



If you had to guess, how many of the next 10 multiplayer hits will be considered SPORT multiplayer and how many STORY multiplayer?

I wouldn't be surprised if we get 0 from the SPORT category.

When you say sport you mean like esport type a multiplayer?

I can see a lot of different take on MP, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them are based on some kind of narrative however I do believe MPs that are targeting competitive play have longer legs.

 

[eastcoastkody]

Battle royale ruined the fps genre.

The end

Battle Royale SAVED the fps genre. Battlefield/Cod/Halo multiplayer haven't been GREAT in what like a decade? Destiny PVP gets worse and worse and time goes by. Uncharted 4 ruined the great Uncharted multiplayer portion of that series. SOCOM is dead and buried. Division PVP sucks.

Apex Legends is the best multiplayer shooter rn. that and Titanfall 2

 

[The_Mike]

Battle Royale SAVED the fps genre.

You are a part of the problem.

Battlefield/Cod/Halo multiplayer haven't been GREAT in what like a decade?

Battlefield has been shit for ages, Halo infinite suffers from content, but is by far the best online game the game has had in ages.

CoD was really great with MW19, the franchise peaked there, haven't tried the game after, but sales tells me they are still popular, so you might be in the minority here

Apex Legends is the best multiplayer shooter rn. that and Titanfall 2

Titanfall 2 is sadly dead, but apex should have taken its place.

Theres a reason why all BR games are free - they are literally shit no one would pay for. Even pubg, that was paid once, turned to f2p because otherwise no one would touch that shit.


You are entitled to have your own opinion, but it's wrong.

 

[eastcoastkody]

You are a part of the problem.

how am i part of the problem? Im not the one that made all of the big FPS franchises suck since 2010. Budgets, time constraints, mediocrity are the problem. Cod and Battlefield used to be great. But then the franchises slowly get worse over time, and ppl keep accepting it. Not even just in the FPS genre. Sports games. lots of other genres, games keep getting worse across the board compared to older iterations and its because we accept it. And ppl keep buying them.
battle royal is a mode. Just like 6v6 team deathmatch is a mode. so saying BR killed gaming is the same as saying team deathmatch killed gaming

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

When you say sport you mean like esport type a multiplayer?

I can see a lot of different take on MP, I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them are based on some kind of narrative however I do believe MPs that are targeting competitive play have longer legs.

SPORT as defined in the OP. The description under the fencing gif.

Try to think of the last new game release that would fit that description...and turned out to be successful.

Overwatch? 2016.
Splitgate was popular for a few weeks and did well for the small dev team.

I honestly can't think of any other recent examples. Do you honestly think we're going to get many successful games of that type over the next 5 years? I don't see it.

 

[Guilty_AI]

SPORT as defined in the OP. The description under the fencing gif.

Try to think of the last new game release that would fit that description...and turned out to be successful.

Splatoon 3 comes to mind. There's also Valorant.

 

[MikeM]

Whats killing multiplayer is the sheer amount of lootbox nonsense. Battlepass this, lootbox that. Pay to win meta guns.

MP was cool when skins and guns were unlocked. People actually earned them and didn’t just pay for it.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Splatoon 3 comes to mind. There's also Valorant.

Good points. Forgot about those games.