-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Digital Foundry: Dead Island 2 - DF Tech Review - PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S vs ALL Last-Gen Consoles
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Anyone else a little annoyed by how often Digital Foundry misses small differences between the consoles? For instance the shadows between ps5 and sx in this game?
I'd love to understand exactly what the difference is and why. Which shadow is superior? Are series X shadows soft shadows? Or are they lower res?
I can't tell if they're maybe just more filtered and thus actually using a higher setting or what and it would be great for an actual expert to explain this stuff.
I'd love to understand exactly what the difference is and why. Which shadow is superior? Are series X shadows soft shadows? Or are they lower res?
I can't tell if they're maybe just more filtered and thus actually using a higher setting or what and it would be great for an actual expert to explain this stuff.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
If anything, I think this Dev deserves praise for delivering a robust release across multiple platforms. A little tweaking and they will be perfect.
as Usual it looks like PC is the place to play, but the current consoles all deliver a great 60 FPS experience. Props.
as Usual it looks like PC is the place to play, but the current consoles all deliver a great 60 FPS experience. Props.
Once again, it is true that the document with that statement exists, as it is just as true that it is from almost 2 years ago and the situation could have changed. It has been able to change like the example given by Unity Engine and Lego Buldiers where now the XSX version is better than the PS5 version even though it lacked RT mode at launch due to lack of support and inefficiency.
What I am telling you is that you are drawing conclusions from 2 games with UE4 where the reflections in XSX are worse. You're talking about something "common" when it's not, and you're talking about DX12 inefficient when the most logical answer may simply be not enough optimization.
You are confusing the recent results of 2023 with the results of the 3 years that we have been. In those 3 years we are very far from being able to say that PS5 wins most comparisons LOL.
It's like 4 months ago anyone could have said that XSX wins the vast majority because it won the majority and we didn't have this discussion.
Then, that XSX and even PC can have worse versions than PS5 can have many other reasons that do not have to be the inefficiency of DX. Lack of optimization time, PS5 base development platform... In a world where seeing less powerful machines performing better is not strange... You also have Dead Island 2 working the same on Pro vs XBO X when there is no some logic
You are talking about consoles very very on par in power. They have their advantages and disadvantages but in the end that one version is better than another depends on "small" circumstances. Being a base development platform, having more optimization time are more decisive..... and I don't think anyone doubts which platform benefits the most from that circumstance
It's like when it was said here that the clear advantage of XSX vs PS5 in A plague Tale was a consequence of Asobo being more familiar with XSX. Curious that the opposite situation cannot be
I doubt it. You even have John from DF with a list of games where the winner is XSX. Like others, you are confused with the recent results of this 2023 and you have forgotten about the situation just 3-4 months ago.
That is not the real story. Xbox engineers were not called to help, they were in charge of porting XSX and especially XSS because otherwise Epic only intended to release the Mayrix demo on PS5 and that was unacceptable in terms of marketing.
It is a demo created by the creators of the engine themselves and designed for PS5 with which they already had experience... the result obtained by the Xbox engineers is meritorious and they also created optimizations that even PS5 benefited from.
Future games with UE5? Well, my bet is that it will happen as with the rest of the games with different engines. Whether the PS5 version is better or worse than the XSX version will depend especially on when it is favored Or not by the most favorable development circumstances and optimization time because they are machines very much on a par in power.
At the moment there is only FORNITE UE5 and the best version is XSX. I don't know what explanation you have for that if, according to you, it is impossible because the XSX API is inefficient and causes problems.
In a world where PS4 Pro gets equal to or ever better versions than XBO X..... that should tell you something.
Last edited:
Physiognomonics
Member
exactly, the dx api has been heavier on xbox since its inception its just not as efficient as a console only api like the gnm
show me that list from john and exactly show me the games that performed better on xbox 3 years ago and ill show you more that performed better on playstation...Once again, it is true that the document with that statement exists, as it is just as true that it is from almost 2 years ago and the situation could have changed. It has been able to change like the example given by Unity Engine and Lego Buldiers where now the XSX version is better than the PS5 version even though it lacked RT mode at launch due to lack of support and inefficiency.
What I am telling you is that you are drawing conclusions from 2 games with UE4 where the reflections in XSX are worse. You're talking about something "common" when it's not, and you're talking about DX12 inefficient when the most logical answer may simply be not enough optimization.
You are confusing the recent results of 2023 with the results of the 3 years that we have been. In those 3 years we are very far from being able to say that PS5 wins most comparisons LOL.
It's like 4 months ago anyone could have said that XSX wins the vast majority because it won the majority and we didn't have this discussion.
Then, that XSX and even PC can have worse versions than PS5 can have many other reasons that do not have to be the inefficiency of DX. Lack of optimization time, PS5 base development platform... In a world where seeing less powerful machines performing better is not strange... You also have Dead Island 2 working the same on Pro vs XBO X when there is no some logic
You are talking about consoles very very on par in power. They have their advantages and disadvantages but in the end that one version is better than another depends on "small" circumstances. Being a base development platform, having more optimization time are more decisive..... and I don't think anyone doubts which platform benefits the most from that circumstance
I doubt it. You even have John from DF with a list of games where the winner is XSX. Like others, you are confused with the recent results of this 2023 and you have forgotten about the situation just 3-4 months ago.
Future games with UE5? Well, my bet is that it will happen as with the rest of the games with different engines. Whether the PS5 version is better or worse than the XSX version will depend especially on when it is favored Or not by the most favorable development circumstances and optimization time because they are machines very much on a par in power.
At the moment there is only FORNITE UE5 and the best version is XSX. I don't know what explanation you have for that if, according to you, it is impossible because the XSX API is inefficient and causes problems.
In a world where PS4 Pro gets equal to or ever better versions than XBO X..... that should tell you something.
aries_71
Junior Member
DF doesn’t really know. They are little more knowledgeable than the Neogaf average poster and probably less than quite a few.
The list is on his Twitter account in one of his responses, you can check it yourself.
Make a list? LOL. You are the one who says that the vast majority of comparisons have been won by PS5. You better do it and I'll answer it without problems although I don't know if immediately because my time is not infinite and I have much more important things to do than convince someone that he is wrong.
Last edited:
Mr Moose
Member
Calm down, no one said that.
We noticed some differences between the versions that weren't picked up by Tom.
Talks about warriors and mentions some legit next gen games, then mentions the new next gen only Forza VS cross-gen GT7. OK warrior lol.
im not the only one who says the vast majority of games perform better on ps5 even df have said this and alot of people think the same way... literally almost everytime a game comes out i can already tell the ps5 will be the performant one
Mr Moose
Member
Took them long enough though, I remember the trailer from 2014 lol.
Might pick it up on sale if its just mindless zombie killing fun but not much else.
LOL
It's clear to me who "a lot of people" is..... They are the same as when XSX continually won the comparisons they didn't say anything similar.
But OK, according to you, we have to believe that when XSX loses a comparison it only has to do with the inefficiency of DX and nothing else. Things like lack of optimization time vs. the PS5 version, that PS5 is the base platform for development etc do not exist...
And then you have that Fornite UE5 is better in XSX (17% more resolution and the same framerate), A Plague tale (according to DF 30% better performance), Diying light 2 and the large number of games where XSX has a better version are the result of a coincidence and there, suddenly, the inefficiencies of DX disappeared.
Last edited:
Methos#1975
Member
Ultimately really, I'm surprised that not only is the game good, but it's do polished considering its history. These devs deserve every accolade for this impossible task.
8BiTw0LF
Banned
MasterCornholio
Member
No thats just you console warring. Stop focusing on Sony fanboys so much.
df dont even know the resolution and nobody could tell the res difference between fortnite ue5 on ps5 vs series x... actually alex had to ask ue5 devs and they told him series x has a 17% resolution advantage... an advantage that nobody can tell up until a developer is asked about.. where as u have games like the touryst that run at 8k on ps5 and 5k so which large number of games are you taking about that perform better on xbox cause the same df you keep chating about are the same people who came out and say ps5 performs better than xbox because devs prefer the ps5 api...LOL
It's clear to me who "a lot of people" is..... They are the same as when XSX continually won the comparisons they didn't say anything similar.
But OK, according to you, we have to believe that when XSX loses a comparison it only has to do with the inefficiency of DX and nothing else. Things like lack of optimization time vs. the PS5 version, that PS5 is the base platform for development etc do not exist...
And then you have that Fornite UE5 is better in XSX (17% more resolution and the same framerate), A Plague tale (according to DF 30% better performance), Diying light 2 and the large number of games where XSX has a better version are the result of a coincidence and there, suddenly, the inefficiencies of DX disappeared.
WTF
You are very imaginative looking for excuses that explain the situations contrary to your argument
What DF was not able to detect? LOL, they just didn't have to do anything because they got confirmation from the developers. What more proof do you want?
That no one is capable of noticing that difference in resolution? Does matters? The important thing is that Fornite UE5 works better on XSX and that, according to you, is not possible because DX is inefficient. I still hope you explain what happens there
Ohh Touryst OK
A game that in XSX is only improved by BC and that for the PS5 version they created a native version... Great example of something... sure Jim
When reality tells you that there are many more cases where the XSX version has an advantage in resolution vs PS5 than the other way around...
That is false. You invent. DF has never said that PS5 performs better in most cases. In fact the opposite has happened however.
What DF has done is to try to explain why there are many cases where PS5 performs better than XSX (that is a reality that no one denies) and ONE of the reasons that they put on the table is that the PS5 API is more familiar and accessible to developers than a more general and new XSX api.
They have never said, as you affirm, that the XSX API is inefficient, much less that this is always the reason why there are games that perform worse in XSX. It would be stupid when there are so many that perform better and then they would be left without an explanation... Exactly like you who still haven't explained how that is possible
You can accept it or not, but the reality tends to be easier than blaming it all on DX engineers and API inefficiencies. Reality tells you that you have two consoles that are very very very equal in power and that one surpasses the other has more to do with how much time you dedicate to optimization, familiarity with the hardware and which one Studios choose as the base development platform. These are reasons more decisives than other circumstances.
For example. I don't think anyone doubted that (before launching and knowing the circumstances) A plague Tale had a much better chance of performing better on XSX than on PS5 just as Calisto Protocol had a better chance of performing better on PS5.... Again, Optimization time, familiarity with the hardware, being the base development platform the vast majority of times are the reasons.
Last edited:
Mr Moose
Member
Ohh Touryst OK
A game that in XSX is only improved by BC and that for the PS5 version they created a native version... Great example of something... sure Jim
When reality tells you that there are many more cases where the XSX version has an advantage in resolution vs PS5 than the other way around...
Inside Xbox Series X|S Optimized: The Touryst - Xbox Wire
One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X|S Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique capabilities of Xbox Series X|S, both for new titles built natively using the Xbox Series X|S development...
news.xbox.com
When the game can be played from an external HDD.... that means that it's no native no matter what the Studio says otherwise. The same thing happens with Wreckfest, which is classified as native and yet it is not, being able to play it from an external HDD.
Unlike the PS5 version where the Studio itself confirms and highlights that they created specific optimizations for the hardware and it is a version almost from 0.
With that in mind, it's up to anyone to decide whether or not to believe that Touryst's version of the XSX and PS5 received the same treatment and attention.
In Cold Blood
Banned
Well, considering it's the Sony fanboys talking about shadows, so.yeah, in this instance it is apt.
If it was Xbox Fanboys claiming a win because of shadows I would say the same thing.
There is nothing to be won on this game.
Let's just be happy the game actually came out and is in pretty decent shape on all consoles.
Leave the waring to the next Forza MS vs GT thread where there is something to actually compare that reflects the unique benefits to both systems.
But this game? Nah.
Last edited:
Mr Moose
Member
Again with the "you can't compare cross gen games" and "lets compare next gen racer to cross gen racer!"
MasterCornholio
Member
Even that comparison wouldn't be that good to be honest. Now if Forza was on both that would be a different story. So far multiplats have been pretty similar on both due to the systems being close in power. It's why games like Dead Island 2 are like this on both.
DaGwaphics
Member
Great to see a game optimized this well right at release.
Horseganador
Member
Another game to add to the long list that are better on PS5.
Lysandros
Member
I don't know if posted but higher quality shadows on PS5 are confirmed in the related article.
www.eurogamer.net
Dead Island 2 delivers solid performance and image quality on all consoles
Dead Island 2 has had a tough road to release, but it's here for Xbox One/Series and PS4/PS5 consoles - and it's actual…
www.eurogamer.net
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't know if posted but higher quality shadows on PS5 are confirmed in the related article.
[/URL]
Well that's that.
But to be fair i still consider both to be identical. Doubt anyone is going to notice the differences.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Did they compare the shadows to PC settings? Perhaps the PS5 has even better shadows than PC as well.I don't know if posted but higher quality shadows on PS5 are confirmed in the related article.
Dead Island 2 delivers solid performance and image quality on all consoles
Dead Island 2 has had a tough road to release, but it's here for Xbox One/Series and PS4/PS5 consoles - and it's actual…
MasterCornholio
Member
Honestly I don't see any reason for PC to have worse shadows unless it's a limitation of the API.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Pictures posted earlier showing Xbox version of shadows looking like the PC version. If PS5 has better shadow quality I'd expect to see PC mentioned as well.
Honestly I don't see any reason for PC to have worse shadows unless it's a limitation of the API.
MasterCornholio
Member
Well all you have from them is that the PS5 is a setting above the XSX. Nothing else.
Edit: I see the pictures that you mean. Honestly that source has been known to make mistakes in the past so maybe El Analista screwed up the PC settings.
I highly doubt the PC version isn't capable of having better shadows than the other two versions.
Last edited:
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Dude you know your curse, he'll be banned soon, there's no other way...
But on topic it is also good to compare games that have actually released, aren't cross gen vs next gen but I am sure that it is you that will be viewed as a warrior to him.
Especially after claiming how sony fanboys were agressive when it was thus far a pretty civil thread about simploe API differences.
But I InColdBlood starting a fire and complaining that it burn is not new.
MasterCornholio
Member
Your right. It can definitely be down to how the API handles the shadows. In that case I can see Series X equal the highest PC setting. However that wouldn't mean the PS5 version is a lower preset due to the shadows looking different. Could be just an API difference and all three platforms have the same shadow settings.
Mr Moose
Member
winjer
already showed what was going on.PC ultra shadows is a very weird setting and its not using the defaults from UE4.
sg.ShadowQuality is set to 4. But it's settings are not even following UE4 scalability defaults.
These are the settings that it controls. These values are for sg.ShadowQuality 3
These are the settings used on PC, for shadows ultra:
The setting that seems to make the diference we see on the PC and Series X versus the PS5 is: r.Shadow.CSM.MaxCascades
r.Shadow.CSM.MaxCascades=4
r.Shadow.CSM.MaxCascades=3
MasterCornholio
Member
And even then I don't fully understand what's going on.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
I think it has been established that it is actually a higher preset per the eurogamer article and the excellent explaination by
winjer
MasterCornholio
Member
I think it has been established that it is actually a higher preset per the eurogamer article and the excellent explaination by
I guess I'm just confused on why Series is equivalent to the PC version but the PS5 version has a higher setting. It just doesn't seem correct to me.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Go to settings.
Options.
Turn off Attack Numbers, QTEs, Health Bars and whatever else you dont want on screen.
????
Profit.
But its probably easier to just bitch about an option you have on NeoGAF.
Mr Moose
Member
Not sure why, but it's not the first time it's been higher in some things.
Assassin's Creed Valhalla - what PC hardware is needed to match PS5 visuals?
With the arrival of the next console generation, it's inevitable that the hardware requirements for PC software will ri…
www.eurogamer.net
Loxus
Member
Yea, it's quite obvious PS5 has better shadows. The game doesn't have ray tracing, so I don't know why max PC shadows looks like that.
As for as I know, higher res/sharper shadows means it's better. Something isn't right about those max PC shadows.
Maybe the PC version is the Xbox port and shadows wasn't up res for the PC version by mistake.
winjer
Gold Member
Windows and Series X, both use DirectX and probably other features and tools for development.
So this mistake in settings was repeated on both. PS5 probably has different tools for development.
MasterCornholio
Member
After fixing the mistake it should look identical on all three?
01011001
Banned
why did every version of RE4 have different deadzone settings, and even after Capcom patched it on Xbox, the Xbox and PC still have a different one than PS5?
the answer... devs working on different versions don't communicate with eachother enough to notice the differences
Last edited:
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't believe that's the case here.
winjer
already explained it to me. No need to get irritated over RE4 which isn't even the topic here. That's a different dev with a different engine.
Last edited:
Thanks for the emoji's and the long reply's as if they make any of your points make any sense... well here is the df direct where john explains why ps5 performs better than series x from actually asking developers... go to 49 minute markWTF
You are very imaginative looking for excuses that explain the situations contrary to your argument
What DF was not able to detect? LOL, they just didn't have to do anything because they got confirmation from the developers. What more proof do you want?
That no one is capable of noticing that difference in resolution? Does matters? The important thing is that Fornite UE5 works better on XSX and that, according to you, is not possible because DX is inefficient. I still hope you explain what happens there
Ohh Touryst OK
A game that in XSX is only improved by BC and that for the PS5 version they created a native version... Great example of something... sure Jim
When reality tells you that there are many more cases where the XSX version has an advantage in resolution vs PS5 than the other way around...
That is false. You invent. DF has never said that PS5 performs better in most cases. In fact the opposite has happened however.
What DF has done is to try to explain why there are many cases where PS5 performs better than XSX (that is a reality that no one denies) and ONE of the reasons that they put on the table is that the PS5 API is more familiar and accessible to developers than a more general and new XSX api.
They have never said, as you affirm, that the XSX API is inefficient, much less that this is always the reason why there are games that perform worse in XSX. It would be stupid when there are so many that perform better and then they would be left without an explanation... Exactly like you who still haven't explained how that is possible
You can accept it or not, but the reality tends to be easier than blaming it all on DX engineers and API inefficiencies. Reality tells you that you have two consoles that are very very very equal in power and that one surpasses the other has more to do with how much time you dedicate to optimization, familiarity with the hardware and which one Studios choose as the base development platform. These are reasons more decisives than other circumstances.
For example. I don't think anyone doubted that (before launching and knowing the circumstances) A plague Tale had a much better chance of performing better on XSX than on PS5 just as Calisto Protocol had a better chance of performing better on PS5.... Again, Optimization time, familiarity with the hardware, being the base development platform the vast majority of times are the reasons.
And secondly you lied again... you said fornite had a 17% difference of resolution but the truth is its only a minor 4% difference and the resolution is fully dynamic..
again show me a game on xbox that has a big resolution delta and performs even better on series x against ps5 like the touryst or wild hearts,.... you have permission to search through the whole internet archive... gooduck and bring concrete facts not emoji's
Last edited:
01011001
Banned
I don't believe that's the case here.
it's absolutely the case here.
the game doesn't use default UE4 values on PC, this means they changed each value by hand for the different presets, and on PS5 they simply forgot to change one of the values from 4 to 3 like on PC Ultra settings.
it's literally the exact same that happend in RE's deadzone (multiple times by now btw.), or how the sharpening looked different in older RE games per system, where the devs obviously also changed the sharpening value by hand and didn't compare their adjustments with the devs working on other versions.
or when games on PS4 back in the day had lower Anisotropic texture filtering compared to Xbox One. people thought that was an API issue, it wasn't, it was developers literally not noticing that the texture filtering was set way too low. Digital Foundry mentioned this in one of the DF Direct episodes, that multiple developers told them this when they asked about it... they simply didn't notice the difference and didn't care to fix it.
and back then that was only on 3 systems. PC, One, PS4.
here we have 8 systems. One, One X, PS4, Pro, XSS, XSX, PS5 and PC.
Last edited:
01011001
Banned
Shadow-gate? Ghostwire Tokyo has a similar issue with shadows, this is from the other topic:
that game has way more issues than that... hell, they even managed to have the raytraced light sources be somehow in the wrong position on Xbox... how the fuck did they manage to do that? it's fucking hilarious how shit that port is.