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Digital Foundry - Do we actually need a PS5 Pro?

Miles708

Member
Explain. I would love a ps5 upgrade with double its gpu power. How is that marginal? overpriced a console? there is no better value in entertainment than a console. your take is extremely bad and simply false.

I love having a console without any of the advantages of a console.
Not the price, not the exclusives, not even the unified hardware now. All the bullshit of the PC market is now available for your TV too. Joy.
 
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PeteBull

Member
We will see in 2024/2025 once it launches at 600$ or so, it will be flying of the shelves at that price as long as it allows us to play at fps from performance mode and settings from fidelity/rt mode combined, im sure xD
 
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welshrat

Member
Yep would love one. Would happily pay £799 if the tech is there. Struggling to keep my series x at the moment as playing a lot of gamepass on PC and going to buy a steam deck. Sold the Nintendo Switch but will hang on for the moment to the X just in case some games in 2023 warrant holding on. Generally buy PS5 games as prefer the OS etc but will swap if its a massive difference. We will see.
 

Freeza93

Banned
I love having a console without any of the advantages of a console.
Not the price, not the exclusives, not even the unified hardware now. All the bullshit of the PC market is now available for your TV too. Joy.
Nice so much written no answer at all in it. Just nonsense
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
I'll try to be more literal.
You will get at most a ps4 Pro level of difference, while all developers will still focus on the base console anyway and you will happily waste money to receive nothing of notable in return... again.

Mid-gen refreshes are a money scam.
With PS4 Pro, we at least got higher-than-1080p and options for 60fps. Nowadays.. every game has higher-than-1080p and options for 60fps. Oh, they say, well now you can play at 4K/60fps, instead of.. 1440p/60fps. Except… that is a pretty marginal difference especially with modern FSR/reconstruction/CBR/etc. Even with PS4 Pro/Xbox One X we saw that full 4K was not getting the gains you saw from, say, 900p to full 1080p.

I just don’t get the PS5 Pro talk, at all.
 
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Freeza93

Banned
You will get at most a ps4 Pro level of difference, while all developers will still focus on the base console anyway and you will happily waste money to receive nothing of notable in return... again.

Mid-gen refreshes are a money scam.
I dont even know where to start….jesus fucking christ. it must be trolling no one can be this dumb.

Pro was more than double as fast as the Ps4 Gpu. I played Ark back then which run at 680-720p on Ps4. Pro gave me 1080p and much better performance. That was a huge difference on a large Tv Screen. How is that scam? How can be something scam that you can buy from official vendors where law protection is in place?

Wtf ? Do you even know what that word means?

One x was dven a much bigger upgrade to the regular one. It gave 1440p in Ark.

Yes more performance is scam thats the dumbest shit i have heard in a while.

Lets say the Ps5 pro ONLY doubles Ps5 Performance. That would make Native 4k 60 fps a possibility on Console settings. Not to mention vastly better RT performance. Or 1440p 120 fps target.

Yes more resolution, graphic effects and fps are a scam. Hundred millions of pc gamer get scammed every time they upgrade their gpu according to you since its the exact same thing.

Jesus this guy finish school first please

pwQPCEP.gif
 
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Freeza93

Banned
Wtf you talkin about? Gpu sits at 99% its fully utilised especially in horizon since it has uncapped vrr mode.

I could put snake on 64k and it will get 99% gpu utilization.

The only gpu with headroom is a 4090 because cpu limit even in 4k.and that card has 10 times the power of the ps 5 apu( theoretical)
 

Roxkis_ii

Member
Wtf you talkin about? Gpu sits at 99% its fully utilised especially in horizon since it has uncapped vrr mode.

I could put snake on 64k and it will get 99% gpu utilization.

The only gpu with headroom is a 4090 because cpu limit even in 4k.and that card has 10 times the power of the ps 5 apu( theoretical)
Was this a reply to my post?

If so, I don't think you can campare a game on PC with a game on console. As much as people want to act like consoles are just pc parts in a mini case.

The fact that console games need a whole other team to port to PC should be an indicator that's its not an apples to apples comparison.
 

Freeza93

Banned
I know that. The api the Ps 4 uses surpasses everything available on Pc. But still this cross gen nonsense has no weight to it. At heart ps 4 is very similar to ps5. Ps3 was a complete different beast then ps 4.

Games get not scaled up they get scaled down.

See BF 3 on Consoles vs Pc Version good analogy to cross\current gen . Cpu is not enough? Cut the map in half and the players on it. Done

Sometimes it just cant cut it anymore like Cp 2077 on base consoles(480p) would but its lost game either way at that point.
 

daveonezero

Banned
If this generation is going to last much longer due to all the problems (2029?) then yes but it should come out 2024/25 not before and maybe about £50 more than what the base PS5 originally came out at.
What meaningful upgrade could they do for $75
 
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oji-san

Banned
Need? obviously yes as PS5 can't always have good enough performance, either it's the hardware limits or the devs issue.
But i rather not, it's good enough to keep going 3-4 years more and then the next next-gen will have all the new upgrades.
 

Miles708

Member
I dont even know where to start….jesus fucking christ. it must be trolling no one can be this dumb.

Pro was more than double as fast as the Ps4 Gpu. I played Ark back then which run at 680-720p on Ps4. Pro gave me 1080p and much better performance. That was a huge difference on a large Tv Screen. How is that scam? How can be something scam that you can buy from official vendors where law protection is in place?

Wtf ? Do you even know what that word means?

One x was dven a much bigger upgrade to the regular one. It gave 1440p in Ark.

Yes more performance is scam thats the dumbest shit i have heard in a while.

Lets say the Ps5 pro ONLY doubles Ps5 Performance. That would make Native 4k 60 fps a possibility on Console settings. Not to mention vastly better RT performance. Or 1440p 120 fps target.

Yes more resolution, graphic effects and fps are a scam. Hundred millions of pc gamer get scammed every time they upgrade their gpu according to you since its the exact same thing.

Jesus this guy finish school first please

pwQPCEP.gif

The concept of optimizing your game for the hardware is an outdated trend I guess.
The fixed hardware, the unified system, without the need of chasing new hardware, is the main advantage of a console.

If you're willing to go for the hardware brute force route, why not have a PC?
 
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Freeza93

Banned
The concept of optimizing your game for the hardware is an outdated trend I guess.
The fixed hardware, the unified system, without the need of chasing new hardware, is the main advantage of a console.

If you're willing to go for the hardware brute force route, why not have a PC?
Troll someone else.
 

Amory

Member
I'm fine with a slim model with some hardware optimization, but it's a joke if they put out a pro console anytime soon when it's only now getting easier to buy the base model at retail. I've still literally never seen one on a physical store shelf.

How splintered do we want console specs to be? There's already the PS4, PS5, Xbox Series S, and Series X to think about when making a game. Developers have not come close to tapping the full potential of the base consoles.
 

Freeza93

Banned
I think you can leave last gen behind by now. See hogwarts theirs versions already got delayed and will be trash probably but i dont blame the devs if a game from 2023 runs like as on 2013 hardware.

More console versions are easier to realize than ever x86 all of em.

Heck Xbox uses a special W10 Os. Use edge and you can see the exact version of it.

We will need an upgrade.

Dead Space remake manages 60 fps on 1080p on a 3060ti which is 10% faster than the consoles. 6900xt for 1440p. 😂 Shieet
 

PeteBull

Member
Most important is to have access to process node thats small enough to make it possible for ps5x 2 gpu power(more cpu power wont be problem at all coz ps5 cpu is downlocked r7 3800x with less cashe) to not take more than 250Wats, aka console form factor.
Rdna with its chiplet nature on 4nm(we arent far from it now, since nividia's 4k series gpu are made on enhanced 5nm) could make thinks happen for sure, just no idea if in 2024 or 2025, depends on when actual 4nm node is avaiable for mass production.

Rdna4 definitely can provide us with enough power, since even rdna3 is easily 2x as powerful as both ps5 and xsx(dont look at teraflops, look at actual performance increase over 6700xt that even biggest console fanboy has to admit eats current gen console gpu for breakfest, 7900xtx is over double of that https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-7900-xtx.c3941 problem is too high tdp for console factor.
So what we need is to get that 355W tdp(and 8c16t so current 65W tdp cpu equivalent aka r7 7700) to go down to around 250W, so 1 more die shrink and rdna4 tech is needed for it to have actual chance to be made.

After that it will be about economy aka how pricey they can make it so it can be sold at relatively small loss(maybe 100$ or so?).
Good comparision is recently discounted to 200$ xss vs still keeping dat 500$ strong xsx, customers got no problem chosing more expensive model as long as it provides much better perceived value(and it does)so 600$ ps5pro will be no brainer, for hardcore enthusiast/big playstation fans(first batch so 1st year sales) even 800$ wont be too pricey either but realistically 600$ would be within fly of the shelves price range longterm.
 

Freeza93

Banned
I think rdna3 will be exceptionally efficient in midrange. A 6900 xt undervolted to 160 watts is insanely fast.

Also i dont want the console to take more power than now. 150-180w at gaming average with 200 w spikes.

135 Watt Gpu 6600XT(albeit with much higher bandwidth and cache for higher res) 6600 sucks above 1080p.

45W Laptop Cpu

The rest is negligible.

Taken an rdna 3 7700/xt which will top out at 6800-6800xt is legit possible at that power budget. especially if you takd the way xbox does it more cus but at lower frequency. 1800mhz is nothing for rdna 2/3. I dont think they will change cpu much we are gpu limited on console 99% of the time. Ram neither. just a nice 100% gpu bump. At 599€ . but 699€ seems more realistic. But never forget. Console user will not pay that much in masses. 599€ flies of the shelves at 699€ im not sure.
 

rofif

Banned
I love having a console without any of the advantages of a console.
Not the price, not the exclusives, not even the unified hardware now. All the bullshit of the PC market is now available for your TV too. Joy.
Exactly this. Pro, then pro2, then pro ultra. Look at smartphones.

Console is a console and let console be console. There is a pc for those who want this bs. With all the possible pro consoles, devs would not even have time to learn the console
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Absolutely no reason not to have one. There will be those that want or can only afford the base, and there are those that would want a pro.
 
Yes we do. Just found out another game, Dead Space Remake, has the 2 disappointing mode thing going on again. Another cross gen as fuck looking game thats 4k/30 with RT (who wants to play 3rd person shooters anymore at 30 fps?) and a disappointing 1440p/60 with no RT.

I know a lot of this is up to the devs as some Sony devs cam get their games 1800p/60 with great graphics, but most 3rd party devs aren't going to put in that effort and so a stronger console would've gotten Dead Space and numerous other games this gen at 4k/60 instead of "2k".
 

Freeza93

Banned
Yes we do. Just found out another game, Dead Space Remake, has the 2 disappointing mode thing going on again. Another cross gen as fuck looking game thats 4k/30 with RT (who wants to play 3rd person shooters anymore at 30 fps?) and a disappointing 1440p/60 with no RT.

I know a lot of this is up to the devs as some Sony devs cam get their games 1800p/60 with great graphics, but most 3rd party devs aren't going to put in that effort and so a stronger console would've gotten Dead Space and numerous other games this gen at 4k/60 instead of "2k".
i doubt its native 1440p. This game hates rdna 2 . You need at least a 6800/xt for 1440p 60 native.
 

Freeza93

Banned
Exactly this. Pro, then pro2, then pro ultra. Look at smartphones.

Console is a console and let console be console. There is a pc for those who want this bs. With all the possible pro consoles, devs would not even have time to learn the console
You could also buy the base and forget about it but maybe other people want it. But your brain goes like this nooo they cant have a better experience even tho they paid more, Horizont of a toilet seat....
 
Exactly this. Pro, then pro2, then pro ultra. Look at smartphones.

Console is a console and let console be console. There is a pc for those who want this bs. With all the possible pro consoles, devs would not even have time to learn the console
Why do you care? Take a game like Forspoken: a mid gen refresh would've helped that game tremendously and would've gotten it out of 1080p-hell at 60 fps. Obviously, a mid gen system wouldn't have made the base ps5 version any worse than it already is now. Could only help when it comes to technically "problematic" games like that.

You don't have to buy it and it's no skin off your back. These consoles aren't able to brute force games that are on the fence graphically. I've gotten to where 1440p is disappointing image quality wise. Then there's RT improvements..which are going to be needed.
 

Kdad

Member
Why do you care? Take a game like Forspoken: a mid gen refresh would've helped that game tremendously and would've gotten it out of 1080p-hell at 60 fps. Obviously, a mid gen system wouldn't have made the base ps5 version any worse than it already is now. Could only help when it comes to technically "problematic" games like that.

You don't have to buy it and it's no skin off your back. These consoles aren't able to brute force games that are on the fence graphically. I've gotten to where 1440p is disappointing image quality wise. Then there's RT improvements..which are going to be needed.
Better programming/direction/writing and Luminous/SE giving a shit/having some talent would have helped Forspoken too without the need to buy a new fucking console....
 

rofif

Banned
You could also buy the base and forget about it but maybe other people want it. But your brain goes like this nooo they cant have a better experience even tho they paid more, Horizont of a toilet seat....
You could still be using geforce 2 mx.
This is fallacy and wrong way of thinking that will ruin console gaming.
This is not about me not wanting new console. I could buy it and I will.
But this is about further market segregation and devs relying on more powerful pro consoles rather than optimising and targeting base.

Why do you care? Take a game like Forspoken: a mid gen refresh would've helped that game tremendously and would've gotten it out of 1080p-hell at 60 fps. Obviously, a mid gen system wouldn't have made the base ps5 version any worse than it already is now. Could only help when it comes to technically "problematic" games like that.

You don't have to buy it and it's no skin off your back. These consoles aren't able to brute force games that are on the fence graphically. I've gotten to where 1440p is disappointing image quality wise. Then there's RT improvements..which are going to be needed.
This has nothing to do with this. You know we have full rt 1440p games like metro exodus still on these consoles?
Forspoken is 1440p+ at 40fps. No problem with it anyway.


We really want pro, pro2, pro ultra, pro mega and 10 other consoles like pc gaming? There is already pc. Why do you want another pc?

Whole strength of console gaming is that it’s 1 console for which devs can target. If they need to target 7 consoles, you never will get such a good results.
Devs can do 60fps whenever they can. If forspoken runs too slow, it has nothing to do with the console itself
 

Freeza93

Banned
You could still be using geforce 2 mx.
This is fallacy and wrong way of thinking that will ruin console gaming.
This is not about me not wanting new console. I could buy it and I will.
But this is about further market segregation and devs relying on more powerful pro consoles rather than optimising and targeting base.


This has nothing to do with this. You know we have full rt 1440p games like metro exodus still on these consoles?
Forspoken is 1440p+ at 40fps. No problem with it anyway.


We really want pro, pro2, pro ultra, pro mega and 10 other consoles like pc gaming? There is already pc. Why do you want another pc?

Whole strength of console gaming is that it’s 1 console for which devs can target. If they need to target 7 consoles, you never will get such a good results.
Devs can do 60fps whenever they can. If forspoken runs too slow, it has nothing to do with the console itself
Dude consoles these days are more pc than ever. If they are so lazy to get the right settings for 2 more versions, then i dont know what to say.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Yes we do. Just found out another game, Dead Space Remake, has the 2 disappointing mode thing going on again. Another cross gen as fuck looking game thats 4k/30 with RT (who wants to play 3rd person shooters anymore at 30 fps?) and a disappointing 1440p/60 with no RT.

I know a lot of this is up to the devs as some Sony devs cam get their games 1800p/60 with great graphics, but most 3rd party devs aren't going to put in that effort and so a stronger console would've gotten Dead Space and numerous other games this gen at 4k/60 instead of "2k".

Except every review and video I’ve seen raves about how Dead Space looks, on console. On some level, these are just numbers. There is currently a massive gap between what nerds talk about and what people actually care about. As I said before, the Pro was an easy sell, “you just bought a 4K TV? If you want games to look their best on your brand new TV get the console we designed for 4K TVs.” (I know technically the Pro wasn’t doing true 4K, but you know what I mean). Telling people, “oh if you think that this game that looks amazing has too few pixels, go spend $700 or whatever on a new console to get slightly more pixels even though the two games look indistinguishable in motion” is not a good sell. Even high-end GPUs are doing reconstruction and now frame insertion to make games look better with less pixels. Pixels are not the most important thing. They were 10 years ago when games went from 650p->1080p on 1080p TVs, but it’s different now. Sony would not sell many consoles with that sales pitch. The fact is, the jump from 1440p->4K is not huge, something we learned last gen, something even DF has talked about and they started this console pixel obsession. The fact is, as neat as ray tracing is, it’s still limited and has massive performance penalties, even on the best GPUs. The jump to a Pro console would not be giving you game changing RT improvement. It’s still a few generations away.
 

Lysandros

Member
Yes we do. Just found out another game, Dead Space Remake, has the 2 disappointing mode thing going on again. Another cross gen as fuck looking game thats 4k/30 with RT (who wants to play 3rd person shooters anymore at 30 fps?) and a disappointing 1440p/60 with no RT.

I know a lot of this is up to the devs as some Sony devs cam get their games 1800p/60 with great graphics, but most 3rd party devs aren't going to put in that effort and so a stronger console would've gotten Dead Space and numerous other games this gen at 4k/60 instead of "2k".
And that would still be a mindless waste of resources affecting graphic complexity.
 

rofif

Banned
Yes we do. Just found out another game, Dead Space Remake, has the 2 disappointing mode thing going on again. Another cross gen as fuck looking game thats 4k/30 with RT (who wants to play 3rd person shooters anymore at 30 fps?) and a disappointing 1440p/60 with no RT.

I know a lot of this is up to the devs as some Sony devs cam get their games 1800p/60 with great graphics, but most 3rd party devs aren't going to put in that effort and so a stronger console would've gotten Dead Space and numerous other games this gen at 4k/60 instead of "2k".
bad modes are not console fault.
I've made whole threads about why I dislike the idea of modes and their use currently.
I think 30fps is perfectly fine but not like it's dont this gen with enormous input lag. it is unplayable while bloodborne is faster than some 60fps games easily.
And 60fps modes (which is often the only playable mode because 30fps is so fucking badly implemented with high latency), is gimped.
 

ToTTenTranz

Banned
I'm fine with a slim model with some hardware optimization, but it's a joke if they put out a pro console anytime soon when it's only now getting easier to buy the base model at retail. I've still literally never seen one on a physical store shelf.
To be fair, if they keep the PS5 Slim on N6 and make the new PS5 Pro on N3, they'd be using completely parallel production lines for what should be the bottleneck component, the SoC.
Though they do need to solve the PS5 production/distribution woes ASAP. It's ridiculous how the PS5 is still getting scalped so long after the semiconductor crisis got solved.
 

Krappadizzle

Gold Member
I can say that with the way things have been going, waiting for a PS5Pro or whatever they'll call it has never been easier. I had a PS4Pro and enjoyed it for what it was, but I knew that on PS5's release that the games wouldn't be their to justify the fervor behind it and it's been the easiest "new" generation that I've entered into of the last 25 years or so.
 

Freeza93

Banned
With PS4 Pro, we at least got higher-than-1080p and options for 60fps. Nowadays.. every game has higher-than-1080p and options for 60fps. Oh, they say, well now you can play at 4K/60fps, instead of.. 1440p/60fps. Except… that is a pretty marginal difference especially with modern FSR/reconstruction/CBR/etc. Even with PS4 Pro/Xbox One X we saw that full 4K was not getting the gains you saw from, say, 900p to full 1080p.

I just don’t get the PS5 Pro talk, at all.
If you think 1440p to 4k is marginal. You clearly never gamed on a Pc in native 4k.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
If you think 1440p to 4k is marginal. You clearly never gamed on a Pc in native 4k.
Actually I have, and even Nvidia is telling gamers who buy their expensive $1000+ GPUs that they don't need native res either, so who am I to say they are wrong? It goes beyond even sub-native res at this point, they are now telling us they can generate fake frames too.
 

Freeza93

Banned
D
Actually I have, and even Nvidia is telling gamers who buy their expensive $1000+ GPUs that they don't need native res either, so who am I to say they are wrong? It goes beyond even sub-native res at this point, they are now telling us they can generate fake frames too.
Dlss3 are fake frames. Its like the smooth setting on the tv just better depending on the game.

Its actually ridiculous. Dynamic res is for consoles pc gamer said. Now they are happy to render at lower res for more fps. Satire

Quite funny to me.
 

PeteBull

Member
Aside from dlss 2/3 and dynamic res/non native res and all kinds of tricks, lets focus on facts.

600$(maybe even 800 at launch) ps5pro, if it has at least double of ps5 performance(Rdna2 vs future Rdna4 tflops cant be compared here, even rdna2 vs rdna3 tflops arent the same already, probably coz of chiplet architecture) we can safely assume that instead of 1440p60 or dynamic 4k60 or w/e else settings we will simply get 2x more pixels on screen and very likely raytracing will have less of a negative impact on fps, remember console rt is usually very light/barebones vs what u get on pc ultra/max rt settings, so it wont be like u suddenly losing 70% of ur fps /resolution after u turn in that basic console rt mode on :)

What we know for example, game like demons souls remaster, trully a looker, even tho launch game, runs on ps5 in 4k30 or 1440p60 stable, so 2x stronger machine can indeed on such a game do w/o any worries 4k60, even with some bit rt added on top(again rdna4 architecture will not suffer as much from rt mode like ps5 so rdna2 suffers).

Stronger hardware creates possibility for devs to actually take advantage of it, there is a reason switch and steamdeck suffer like hell running newest demanding games, hell switch, being outdated af, has now games looking worse vs its launch titles, not every dev studio has crazy talent/mountain of funds/devtime so cuts are made left and right, stronger hardware is never bad, always good thing.
 
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