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Digital Foundry: Ghostwire: Tokyo - Xbox Tech Review - No Improvement on PS5, Worse on Xbox Series X/S
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
- Effectively 10 different visual options on PS5|SX w/ 5 different motion blur settings. All testing done with default MB settings.
- Quality (30hz) and HFR Quality (60hz but 1080p) are the only modes which feature RT. Performance and HFR Performance do not feature RT.
- Cube maps and SSR in non RT modes does a reasonable job but RT reflections are generally better and more attractive and add a lot to the visuals.
- RT resolution is lower in Quality vs HFR Quality.
- PS5 has somewhat cleaner RT reflection quality compared to SX.
- RT shadows also present, Quality mode has sharper shadows, HFR has softer shadows. SX has some RT shadows misaligned to their source. PS5 has similar sharper shadows but does not have the misalignment issue. (Thanks Mr. Moose for the correction).
- Series S does not have RT. Only Quality and Performance modes and neither have RT.
- Resolution
- SX Quality: 1512p. PS5 Quality: 1620p. Besides this difference all the other visual modes have the same pixel count. 1296p Performance and 1080p in HFR Quality / Performance.
- Series S Quality: 1296p. Performance: 900p.
- Performance
- Quality mode: Locked 30 FPS with incorrect frame pacing.
- Performance: 60hz target generally 50 to 60 FPS at all times.
- Quality HFR (60hz w/ RT @ 1080p: More desirable but hovers between 45~60 FPS.
- Performance HFR (60hz, no RT, 1080p): 55 to 60 FPS but still doesn't lock at 60.
- Toggling 120hz modes in either HFR mode can go above 60 but full of frame time spikes.
- PS5 Performance mode HFR generally runs 10~ FPS faster.
- Regular 60hz performance holds 60 closer than SX "though the differences aren't massive"
- Series S runs 'considerably worse than any other version'. 30hz can drop on top of the inaccurate frame pacing. Performance mode also drops more.
- PS5 and SX also have non-VSync option but DF recommends not using these at all. Even with VRR displays these modes are not recommended. On Xbox there is still tearing observed even w/ VRR displays, so it's a no-go. VRR with PS5 in these modes do not tear unlike Xbox at least.
- All console versions have input lag issues and camera laginess. Present on PS5 and not fixed in Xbox release.
- DF thinks Tango should go back to the drawing board and fix the performance issues but they don't think it will happen as the game is a year after release.
- Some musings about this disappointing conversion in light of Hi-Fi Rush's single 4K/60 performance profile.
- Quality (30hz) and HFR Quality (60hz but 1080p) are the only modes which feature RT. Performance and HFR Performance do not feature RT.
- Cube maps and SSR in non RT modes does a reasonable job but RT reflections are generally better and more attractive and add a lot to the visuals.
- RT resolution is lower in Quality vs HFR Quality.
- PS5 has somewhat cleaner RT reflection quality compared to SX.
- RT shadows also present, Quality mode has sharper shadows, HFR has softer shadows. SX has some RT shadows misaligned to their source. PS5 has similar sharper shadows but does not have the misalignment issue. (Thanks Mr. Moose for the correction).
- Series S does not have RT. Only Quality and Performance modes and neither have RT.
- Resolution
- SX Quality: 1512p. PS5 Quality: 1620p. Besides this difference all the other visual modes have the same pixel count. 1296p Performance and 1080p in HFR Quality / Performance.
- Series S Quality: 1296p. Performance: 900p.
- Performance
- Quality mode: Locked 30 FPS with incorrect frame pacing.
- Performance: 60hz target generally 50 to 60 FPS at all times.
- Quality HFR (60hz w/ RT @ 1080p: More desirable but hovers between 45~60 FPS.
- Performance HFR (60hz, no RT, 1080p): 55 to 60 FPS but still doesn't lock at 60.
- Toggling 120hz modes in either HFR mode can go above 60 but full of frame time spikes.
- PS5 Performance mode HFR generally runs 10~ FPS faster.
- Regular 60hz performance holds 60 closer than SX "though the differences aren't massive"
- Series S runs 'considerably worse than any other version'. 30hz can drop on top of the inaccurate frame pacing. Performance mode also drops more.
- PS5 and SX also have non-VSync option but DF recommends not using these at all. Even with VRR displays these modes are not recommended. On Xbox there is still tearing observed even w/ VRR displays, so it's a no-go. VRR with PS5 in these modes do not tear unlike Xbox at least.
- All console versions have input lag issues and camera laginess. Present on PS5 and not fixed in Xbox release.
- DF thinks Tango should go back to the drawing board and fix the performance issues but they don't think it will happen as the game is a year after release.
- Some musings about this disappointing conversion in light of Hi-Fi Rush's single 4K/60 performance profile.
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Mr Moose
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ah thanks for the correction, fixing it. I thought he was talking about pin sharp on PS5, not HFR vs Quality.
Fixed.
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Art The Clown
Banned
got knocked out in the rematch too.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Disappointing port in comparison to the PS5 and the fact that it's already a year out but far from an unplayable experience.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Thanks for the thread and resume! Is the input lag the same on both consoles ? I honestly was thinking that it would either be better on PS5 ( like RE 4 remake) or fixed for the Xbox versions. It seems that the problem is deep in the game code, or that they really didn't care. But if they have better to do can Xbox send a team to fix this? Nixxes is a team to 20 people and worked wonders for Sony in the recent ports that they had made. It should not be hard for Xbox to do this too. And the more studios they have the more chances of something like that to happen.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The game always had some very laggy controls, even in DF's first videos last year they complained about it. Doesn't look like it's been fixed on either platform. You can remedy it somewhat by maxing out the acceleration and deceleration but it's a band-aid solution.
Well the PS5 version isn't perfect so perhaps Tango won't be known for top tier graphics but other things. Hifi Rush was a blast to play. I will cut them a little slack on this one. Perhaps the majority of the team have moved on to their next game?
01011001
Banned
this port really feels like it was just shat out, given zero care whatsoever.
the ridiculously bad frametimes make it basically unplayable, the controls are fucking awful, the VRR specific modes do not support VRR, while the Vsync modes that aren't meant for VRR do support it.
it's an astonishingly bad port
the ridiculously bad frametimes make it basically unplayable, the controls are fucking awful, the VRR specific modes do not support VRR, while the Vsync modes that aren't meant for VRR do support it.
it's an astonishingly bad port
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Fbh
Member
Yeah seems really underwhelming coming from a first party after a whole year of having launched on another platform.
I guess they were mostly focused on getting Hi Fi Rush out and this wasn't given much care, hopefully they can improve things with a few updates as the game itself is pretty fun.
I guess they were mostly focused on getting Hi Fi Rush out and this wasn't given much care, hopefully they can improve things with a few updates as the game itself is pretty fun.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Not at all the same story but it makes me think of a devellopement story of Sonic 06. Sega wanted the game to be there for the 15th aniversary of Sonic. There is a lot that happened but 2 things that I believe are relevant to this game: NO delay, and no help available. If Tango had to finish Hi fi rush and then had a mandate to have the Ghostwire game out exactly the day it is possible to do so legally? It may have been Microsoft fault. We will probably never know.
If they had been given time, maybe they would. I can understand that they would not fix the PS5 version if Microsoft do not want them too( more in the there is another game to make than let it rot) Tango has finite ressources. And it is their publisher that should have choosen what is best to do with it. The game is not that much worse than the PS5. And launch games are often huge mess. I blame Microsoft. Easier to do when we know in Hi fi Rush that they can do better.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
The controls are a stylistic choice. It's not meant to control like a FPS. You're supposed to repeatedly snap aim when needed with L trigger. It's snappy as hell on the parts they wanted to be snappy, like rapid element switching, dodges or blocks. You're not supposed to have flawless aim, and you can tell because if you ever land a direct hit on the orbs it does way more damage than normal, akin to a critical hit. A few of the charge hits have large amounts of homing on it as well, or are designed to hit wide areas in close range and are extremely easy to aim. Half the time now I don't even have to shoot and just counter block them and knock to the ground and instantly do a finisher. It doesn't control poorly, it's just stylistically different than almost anything there (aside from like ... Breakdown, 20 years ago).
Bojji
Member
Shader stuttering - the game.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
If true, this makes me curious of what a PS VR 2 port of that game would do. If you just have to look at the enemy to be able to touch them all the time... Could be fun.
01011001
Banned
I wonder how many people worked on this port. because a full year of work to port the game to a new system shouldn't be an issue under nornal circumstances, especially nowadays where everything is x86/x64 based and uses mostly the same API features.
there was either zero care given to this port, or almost no time.
I am currently leaning towards zero care, due to such obvious issues that the PS5 version already had being still there (massive deadzone and shitty aimimg + lag).
and now with that whole thing with HRF modes not supporting VRR on Xbox, that's just negligence... there's no budget or time constraints explaining that... the only way to explain that is that noone working on the game noticed and simply never bothered fixing it.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
Game pass quality
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MadchesterManc
Member
To be honest its the same on PC when playing with a controller, just feels really weird to aim in particular until you get used to it. Its a shame as its good otherwise, the game looks great and the Japanese supernatural angle is interesting
Pretty much. MSI Afterburner & GSync may tell you its a locked 60 but it sure don't look it
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Worse resolution, worse frame rate, worse RT shadows, and worse RT reflections on XSX than PS5... Yikes!
Obviously a pretty unoptimized port job.
Obviously a pretty unoptimized port job.
01011001
Banned
do people who say this nonsense really believe this shit?
input lag is now a feature? did we travel back in time to 2009, are we back at the "Killzone 2 doesn't have input lag, it is supposed to feel heavy" crap again?
the game feels unresponsive due to input lag and a MASSIVE deadzone that can't be turned off, even set to 1 the Deadzone is 32%, which is fucking mental.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I think it controls really well, just differently. They have those demon parade mass battles and I'm usually just crushing enemies at this point. I'm landing counter blocks without noticing any delay. I do acknowledge the game is not like almost anything else I've played so I can see how people may not like it. I think its great though.
01011001
Banned
if you use what is basically a lock-on, of course you'll have no issue hitting enemies.
and every time this comes up I have to point out that "I have no issues hitting stuff" and "the controls are good" are not the same thing.
being able to hit enemies does not mean the game feels good to play. which it doesn't in this case, it feels imprecise and unresponsive.
having what is basically auto aim will of course make it so you can hit targets, but that doesn't change the fact that it feels like ass to control.
Halo Infinite says hi.
the simple act of looking around should feel responsive in and of itself, even if you do not try ro hit anything. that is especially true in a highly vertical open world first person game.
and nowadays there's no excuse anymore for this crap. we have had great feeling first person games since decades now... if Chibi Robo (an example I bring up because I'm currently playing it on Dolphin and because it has a fiest person aim mode) feels better to aim in than your new AAA game in 2023, you suck as a developer, simple as that
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I just thought it was super obvious that the controls were made this way on purpose. You're not supposed to customize it to move like a sniper rifle. Did you notice that most enemies are very slow and just walk towards you? The few people that have projectiles shoot slowly floating orbs, or toss a large boomerang that travels slowly? If you had flawless aim it would trivialize and totally break the whole game. No enemy has anything approaching the accuracy or speed of a gun. I personally think this is exactly how they intended it. I get that some people aren't into it though. I like it a lot.if you use what is basically a lock-on, of course you'll have no issue hitting enemies.
and every time this comes up I have to point out that "I have no issues hitting stuff" and "the controls are good" are not the same thing.
being able to hit enemies does not mean the game feels good to play. which it doesn't in this case, it feels imprecise and unresponsive.
having what is basically auto aim will of course make it so you can hit targets, but that doesn't change the fact that it feels like ass to control.
Halo Infinite says hi.
the simple act of looking around should feel responsive in and of itself, even if you do not try ro hit anything. that is especially true in a highly vertical open world first person game.
and nowadays there's no excuse anymore for this crap. we have had great feeling first person games since decades now... if Chibi Robo (an example I bring up because I'm currently playing it on Dolphin and because it has a fiest person aim mode) feels better to aim in than your new AAA game in 2023, you suck as a developer, simple as that
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begotten
Member
The excuse is it's on Gamepass + go play on PC where stuff like Redfall & Starfield is at 60fps so we can phase out consoles next generation.
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feynoob
Banned
Dumb statement.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
They made an update to the game called Spider's Thread. It's clear that optimization of a year old game wasn't the focus but working on the update was more of a priority.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
feynoob
Banned
Game was shit before Xbox.you right .
Xbox quality
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I consider the fact that the PS5 has not been patched normal. If it is not in the contract they had with Sony, they move on. Sony accepted it too. For Xbox it depends of what was asked and the ressources given to it. We know that Tango is small and just released a game. If they have been ordered to do both but did not received help it may not have been their fault. For me it is more probably lack of time.
True. But do you believe that if Tango was independent they would have made it that way? or that they would have waited a little to fix what they could fix?
feynoob
Banned
Still doesn't excuse of leaving the game in shit state for that long.
People paid money for this game.
They should. If I paid for a product, I want it to be in good state.
Tango had 1 year to fix the issues from PS side before porting it to Xbox.
They didnt give a crap about it.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
This is an interesting question. Would Tango without MS funding spend more time working on a year old port for Xbox? I highly doubt that. It appears like it was clearly a choice to not spend too much more time on optimizing a title that wasn't particularly well received. They just worked on the update and moved on.
The fact that the issues with the PS5 version weren't fixed either shows that this title as a whole wasn't a priority.
Spyxos
Gold Member
I don't think that's true. I played it on the PC with a controller and there was no input delay. But on the console it is there.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Yeah...but it got even worse on Xbox...after one full year to optimize it to release on Xbox. A first party studio.
I think that's what's surprising.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Thing is, you have not paid money to Tango, but to Microsoft, and... probably by using Gamepass. They, and Bethesda, are in charge. And responsible of state of the port.
They could have just not made the port at all, or be working with Sony and making a sequel, or be even worse. I do not really follow them so I don't know if they have a good or bad reputation.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I remember seeing a tweet saying "MS Engineers" were helping with this port?
true of fake news?
true of fake news?
feynoob
Banned
Gamepass is not the issue here.
People who bought the game expect better quality. Gamepass is just an excuse.
Tango is selling a poor quality product, which they should have fixed during the 1 year that they had.
Shouldn't you be pissed off as a consumer then?
Why should we give excuse to these people.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
calm down my friend feynoob. is not that serious....S/X
Mahavastu
Member
For me it looks like it requires a VRR tv on all consoles
Should not be this way. Have not tried it tbh, I think I will one day.
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Zheph
Member
all their games released on Xbox / PC way before the acquisition
feynoob
Banned
MS should have slapped them off.
But if they are doing this under them, then that is a problem.
You can't allow your studio make an inferior product. What is the point of gaining more studios, if they are going to behave like that.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Probably as sincere as 'game pass quality' being an issue here.
It makes me wonder what some reviewers were smoking like this one in Germany:
www.pixel-magazin.de
Ghostwire: Tokyo im Test - Die Mischung machts
Ghostwire: Tokyo ist ein Horrorspiel mit Action- und Adventure-Elementen, dass von Tango Gameworks entwickelt und von Bethesda Softworks veröffentlicht wurde.
www.pixel-magazin.de
It's like they read an informational press sheet and just ran with it.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Once again Tango is not the seller. Microsoft is. Tango is just doing what they are told. And they have been told to put the port on Gamepass at a precise date. This is my supposition of course. Unless they really are independent and could have not made the port at all? But that would surprise me. Maybe Bethesda wanted it out and they are the one to blame here?