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Digital Foundry: Gran Turismo 7 PS5 - 120Hz Patch - Four New Performance Modes Tested
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
- New Patch adds 120fps support and explicit VRR support
- Now packs an additional 4 graphics modes along with original 60hz.
- Resolution 120hz, Frame Rate 120hz and VRR varaints on both.
- There is no VRR toggle in the game, it relies on system level on/off on VRR.
When VRR = Off:
- Frame Rate 120hz mode: Able to lock 120hz majority of times with some drops in stress.
- Replays drop frequently to 80s.
- In game menus also drop to 70s.
- Resolution 120hz mode: Surprisingly similar.
- More drops in game play, up to 10 FPS, in rainy areas and when more cars are on screen.
- Replays hover between 50~80 FPS
- Frame Rate 120hz mode: 1260p.
- Resolution 120hz mode: 1440p.
- Fair bit of aliasing on both modes with slightly messy resolve
- Neither mode offers RT reflections with other graphical features being very similar to 60hz mode. Grass density is a little bit impacted.
- In game UI is rendered at sub 4K and aliasing on text also seen in these 120hz modes
When VRR = On:
-GT7 does not have a VRR toggle in-game, relies on the system VRR toggle.
- VRR makes the drops in frame rate mode academic and inconsequential
- When running with VRR, both modes run at higher resolutions compared to VRR = Off.
- Frame Rate w/ VRR enabled runs teh game at 1440p with only minor drops from 120 in game play which VRR covers.
- Resolution Mode w/ VRR, performance is in window of roughly 70~100 FPS. Replays can drop to 50s.
- However, Resolution + VRR seems to run the game at full 2160p with a bit more aliasing than 60hz.
- DF liken this to the 'unlocked performance' mode in some games.
- No ray tracing in either 120hz mode here either.
- DF's only gripe is that this info is not made clear to the player with any info in the game, and users have to rely on videos like DF to find out what VRR on/off does.
- Oliver's personal favorite mode is the VRR + Resolution mode now.
- This update does not make any changes to the PSVR 2 version of the game.
- Now packs an additional 4 graphics modes along with original 60hz.
- Resolution 120hz, Frame Rate 120hz and VRR varaints on both.
- There is no VRR toggle in the game, it relies on system level on/off on VRR.
When VRR = Off:
- Frame Rate 120hz mode: Able to lock 120hz majority of times with some drops in stress.
- Replays drop frequently to 80s.
- In game menus also drop to 70s.
- Resolution 120hz mode: Surprisingly similar.
- More drops in game play, up to 10 FPS, in rainy areas and when more cars are on screen.
- Replays hover between 50~80 FPS
- Frame Rate 120hz mode: 1260p.
- Resolution 120hz mode: 1440p.
- Fair bit of aliasing on both modes with slightly messy resolve
- Neither mode offers RT reflections with other graphical features being very similar to 60hz mode. Grass density is a little bit impacted.
- In game UI is rendered at sub 4K and aliasing on text also seen in these 120hz modes
When VRR = On:
-GT7 does not have a VRR toggle in-game, relies on the system VRR toggle.
- VRR makes the drops in frame rate mode academic and inconsequential
- When running with VRR, both modes run at higher resolutions compared to VRR = Off.
- Frame Rate w/ VRR enabled runs teh game at 1440p with only minor drops from 120 in game play which VRR covers.
- Resolution Mode w/ VRR, performance is in window of roughly 70~100 FPS. Replays can drop to 50s.
- However, Resolution + VRR seems to run the game at full 2160p with a bit more aliasing than 60hz.
- DF liken this to the 'unlocked performance' mode in some games.
- No ray tracing in either 120hz mode here either.
- DF's only gripe is that this info is not made clear to the player with any info in the game, and users have to rely on videos like DF to find out what VRR on/off does.
- Oliver's personal favorite mode is the VRR + Resolution mode now.
- This update does not make any changes to the PSVR 2 version of the game.
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sncvsrtoip
Member
2160p 120hz vrr is way to go but 4 diff modes without any explanation, pd being pd :d
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I'm no programmer, but I'll never understand how any game's menu screens run worse than the actual game.
You'd think the menus would be speedy and crisp as it's just a bunch of canned simple graphics with option choices.
Bojji
Member
1440p is like half of 4k pixels so it scales pretty nicely, looks like they had CPU headroom to go full 120fps.
VRR saves the day once again, this shit saves many games from being performance mess, 120hz output should be a standard in every PS5 game - it would give them ability to display more than 60 fps and with LFC all drops below 48fps would be much smoother. Xbox has this as standard. Of course Sony left everything to developers...
VRR saves the day once again, this shit saves many games from being performance mess, 120hz output should be a standard in every PS5 game - it would give them ability to display more than 60 fps and with LFC all drops below 48fps would be much smoother. Xbox has this as standard. Of course Sony left everything to developers...
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Killer8
Member
Menus are often pre-loading assets before you even select them. Even just hovering over a menu selection, a game can try to second guess what you might do next and start loading in the assets early. This may put pressure on the CPU and storage reading I am guessing.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This is probably the best use of VRR either MS or Sony have had in a game. Make full use of VRR and run the game at a higher resolution.
However, DF's point about this not being communicated to the player is key. It's weird that there are fundamentally huge changes with or without VRR and it is not communicated to the player.
I know at least a few people who, despite having VRR devices, keep it off for perceived additional lag in their opinion.
However, DF's point about this not being communicated to the player is key. It's weird that there are fundamentally huge changes with or without VRR and it is not communicated to the player.
I know at least a few people who, despite having VRR devices, keep it off for perceived additional lag in their opinion.
omegasc
Member
well, a big "WE UPDATED GT, CLICK HERE TO KNOW MORE" screen pops up when you first boot after every update, so I don't know how that is not communicating to users.
It's not specific as to what resolution it is, but in the options it does state that there will be drop in resolution in Framerate mode, while Resolution with VRR will not use ray tracing.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't even have GT7 so didn't know about patch notes but Oliver's comment makes it sound like it's not communicated to the player at all.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Native 4k 100 fps. Crazy.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
VRR continue to be a massive game changer this gen. Great support here.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yep. Probably the biggest improvement adding feature to console gaming in a couple of generations.
Let me introduce you to the wonder that is the... modern UI Frameworks...
Designer Efficiency, shiny features and ALL the CPU/GPU you can throw at them, and then some.
There are many stories I could tell about that - including how I once had a main-menu (yes, it was literally just a flashing start button) run at sub 20fps because of a 'clever' Flash designer, or how certain sports titles shipped at half their usual framerate because of their - you guessed it, UI.
Suffice to say that UI frameworks are often bloated, expensive crap that gobbles up resources like it's noone's business. And yes - that goes especially for 'optimized for web/mobile' frameworks.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Probably why users reported that it looked sharper in VR after the VR2 update and game update.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
You where right, the 2160p 120hz VRR is way sharper and better looking than the standard 120hz i compared last week.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ShakenG
Member
Wont be able to take advantage of VRR unfortunately since my tv drops local dimming and kills the overall picture. Quality mode in 120hz is too low res for my tastes so just gona roll with default modes till i upgrade to a new teli.
Some good modes none the less but poorly explained in game.
Turk1993
Im pretty sure no one on GTplanet even picked up on the res difference between the two 120hz modes without VRR..
Unless i missed it.
Some good modes none the less but poorly explained in game.
Turk1993
Im pretty sure no one on GTplanet even picked up on the res difference between the two 120hz modes without VRR..
Unless i missed it.
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CamHostage
Member
Man, if there's ever something for one of these middleware providers* to focus on or for UE/Unity to offer some high-efficiency module on, it seems like it'd be UI. I always look at like the load-in/load-out of menus in a fighting game like Street Fighter and wonder why they don't just always have the character select system stored in memory; you're ALWAYS going to need to go back to that menu, so sacrifice whatever little bit in the game it'd cost in order to have that pop up the very second the match is over. But I guess it doesn't work that way, and I guess "whatever little bit" is not so little a bit.
(*BTW, I say this, but just a quick Google search lists a dozen major companies doing just that, including RAD Game Tools, which was the first company to come to mind when I started writing this. So, I guess middleware providers have tried to build UI both performative and flashy, but it's still a suckpoint.)
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Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
alucard0712_rus
Gold Member
Amazing job PD!
Also if you go to this menu you'd have to know what you doing.
You just choose what you prefer more frame rate or resolution.
VRR is system level toggle and there is no point to choose non-VRR option in VRR mode.
DF is over complicating things.
You just choose what you prefer more frame rate or resolution.
VRR is system level toggle and there is no point to choose non-VRR option in VRR mode.
DF is over complicating things.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Yeah those guys are not that technical like some guys in hereWont be able to take advantage of VRR unfortunately since my tv drops local dimming and kills the overall picture. Quality mode in 120hz is too low res for my tastes so just gona roll with default modes till i upgrade to a new teli.
Some good modes none the less but poorly explained in game.
Im pretty sure no one on GTplanet even picked up on the res difference between the two 120hz modes without VRR..
Unless i missed it.
. They only mentioned that the frame rate 120hz mode was a bit lower res and thats it. And your perfectly fine with your tv since the 4K60 mode is already great.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you dont need vrr for uncapped framerates lol.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
No you don't but uncapped frame rate without vrr is practically unplayable and may cause tearing out the ass.
Bojji
Member
Wont be able to take advantage of VRR unfortunately since my tv drops local dimming and kills the overall picture. Quality mode in 120hz is too low res for my tastes so just gona roll with default modes till i upgrade to a new teli.
Some good modes none the less but poorly explained in game.
Im pretty sure no one on GTplanet even picked up on the res difference between the two 120hz modes without VRR..
Unless i missed it.
I had Hisense 120Hz VRR tv for one week, it did exactly the same thing. This is the reason i returned it and went LG OLED, i wanted VRR without any compromises.
They might as well use GT7 to demo 8K 30fps because they clearly got room to play
Loxus
Member
They might as well use GT7 to demo 8K 30fps because they clearly got room to play
Yea it's not that the space doesn't have players in it - it's that it's a fairly complex, multi-faceted problem, and games, apps and web-pages alike scrape by on the fact hw keeps getting faster, so runtime efficiency is far from a priority for most.
Though it's worth remembering it could have always been even worse - we had a fairly large population of believers in the early 2010s that were convinced future of runtime UX was in doing everything through HTML5/JS. And yes - that would have meant running a full browser-runtime in/with... everything that had a UI. One console in particular got burned with this in its launch period.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is the worse idea is video game's history!!!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not at 60+ framerates.
People have been gaming on uncapped framerates for far longer on PC before vrr was ever a thing.
nowhat
Member
This was all the way back when GT Sport was being released, and I really can't be arsed to google it right now, so you'll just have take my word for it (or not), but apparently even back then the car models were made with 8K in mind. This obviously applies to GT7 as well.
Now, will we be seeing 8K GT any time soon, very likely not (hell, even in an enthusiast forum like this, who has an 8K-capable display? And PS5 is not up to the task). Just that the meticulous modeling is "future-proof", which is both commendable and somewhat excessive.
MarkMe2525
Member
Those VRR modes sound great. Awesome update.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And tearing mainly happens when the framerate exceeds the display's maximum refresh rate.
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One has 5 modes and the other has 6.
TLOU Part 1 = 5
| 60Hz modes | 120Hz modes | 120Hz + VRR modes |
|---|---|---|
| Fidelity (4K, 30fps) | Fidelity (4K, 40fps) | Fidelity unlocked (4K, 40fps+) |
| Performance (1440p, 60fps) | Performance unlocked (1440p, 60fps+) |
Gran Turismo 7 + Default Resolution and Fidelity = 6
| Mode + settings | Internal resolution |
|---|---|
| Resolution mode + 120Hz | 1440p |
| Resolution mode + 120Hz VRR | 2160p |
| Frame-rate mode + 120Hz | 1260p |
| Frame-rate mode + 120Hz VRR | 1440p |
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Bojji
Member
I meant 120hz output from console not 120fps, in 120hz window you can have games in 30, 40, 60, 120fps and all in between with vrr and LFC. While for 60hz you only have 30, 60 fps or vrr between 48 and 60fps.
omegasc
Member
Yes, it's his comments that I found strange. Maybe he already knew all the changes and just 'skipped' that.
When you boot GT7 there are two options in the main screen: World Map and Music Rally, and a bunch of cards just below, with news. All update changelogs can be found in those cards, as well as planned services maintenance and Known Issues.
The update videos are also presented to the user on startup, with an option to view it or just close it.
So I don't know what he meant with that comment, really.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I don't understand why VRR would allow for higher resolution. Makes no sense.
Zathalus
Member
It was rather terrible if it did not consistently hit the vsync threshold of the monitor.
omegasc
Member
They can go as low as 48 (or 40) fps without it being very noticeable, so devs have a little more room to play. Without VRR, to keep it fixed 60fps and without stutters or screen tearing they have a stricter time window to get everything processed, so usually resolution takes a little dip. DRS could also be used, but GT engine does not seem to have that in so they fixed at a lower res.
If it can run native 4K at 100fps it has the bandwidth for 8K 25fps add in DRS or make a few cut backs it's hitting 8K 30fps drop it to 6K & let it scale to 8K & you can get 60fps.
Moses85
Member
Its time for a PS5 ProL- Frame Rate 120hz mode: 1260p.
- Resolution 120hz mode: 1440p.
I was going to say this is wrong, but then I noticed the VRR off part
I prefer the resolution mode, the framerate mode is a bit too jaggy for my liking.
nowhat
Member
That is a long way of saying PS5 can't do native 8K@60fps, let alone 120fps
That is a long way of saying PS5 can't do native 8K@60fps, let alone 120fps
The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…
www.eurogamer.net
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nowhat
Member
I meant with GT7.
Besides, does The Touryst output at 8K or is it just supersampled to 4K? Honestly have no idea.
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PS5 has already done 8K @ 60fps thoughThat is a long way of saying PS5 can't do native 8K@60fps, let alone 120fps
Did you forget?
https://kotaku.com/the-first-ever-8k-60-fps-game-hits-ps5-1847778791