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Digital Foundry : Halo Infinite Campaign Re-Reveal Analysis: A Big Improvement Over Last Year's Showing?

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
-Some animations are 30fps
-Complains about sparks when ship falls on platform
-Missing ambient occlusion in areas
-Shadow-casting on foliage/trees is off
-No motion blur, depth of field
While im pleased with the way the game looks overall, this part of the video really irked me when Alex pointed out all the flaws. I get that every game especially console games have these compromises, but ffs this game was delayed a year ago. I defended Alex last year when he said they need to replace their lighting system with RT GI and I even wanted them to add RT reflections to all armored suits and vehicles to give it a next gen sheen. But you can clearly see that despite the realtime time of day changes, the lighting feels half baked (no pun intended).

And isnt the game just 30 fps on the base xbox one? they cant blame this on the game being 60 fps. Every cross gen game is 60 fps. Hell, far cry just came out and its 60 fps on consoles and it doesnt seem to have those issues. I think this is just a matter of them releasing the game on like a million consoles and not being able to take advantage of a single spec a la cyberpunk. they are too busy trying to get this thing to just run on last gen consoles, and that means less time overall for pushing the xsx to its limits.
 

MadPanda

Banned
Hard to feel bad for 343 for this when they overpromised with a false in engine trailer and under delivered. I think the game will be a good time, but not the show piece we might have expected from e3 2018 trailer. Maybe its time for devs and publishers to stop lying about how their games look. Downgrades wouldnt be an issue if they werent constantly overpromising at trade shows.

Although I agree we have to accept that over promised footage hypes the game so much more than something real. Look at the Witcher 3 and The last of us 2 for example. Both had out of this world initial showing and hype was through the roof. Real games were not on that level but they were still excellent and everyone quickly forgot about it. so I'm sure if halo infinite turns out to be a great game with great but not special graphics, most people won't even mention or remember that E3 trailer. that's how it works.
 

Havoc2049

Member
I love halo, and will be all over this, but 343 have only themselves to blame.

Their project management for this was so bad, that after 6 yrs, this is what they delivered and co-op is not even ready for launch. Phil needs to replace all of 343s senior management
I think this already happened a year ago, on the downlow, to save face at MS, as some of the people at 343 were put on such a high pedastal and promoted by MS that they were almost unfirable. Some higher ups "resigned" and Joe Staten was brought in. Some of the traditional 343 talking heads also seem to have a lesser role roll these days. Then Staten took on that weird title of Creative Director of the Halo franchise and it just seems like he is calling the shots these days.
 

Madog

Banned
the game looks like a x360 game in 4k the geometry is cheap lighting is cheap particles are cheap animations are cheap this doesnt look next gen at all, i can even argue that halo 4 had better art direction and killzone shadow fall a ps4 launch title looks more next gen than this and saying its because its open world is bullshit. the game just looks cheap and pretending it looks nice is just suicide
 
All I’ll say is that this is the 4th attempt that 343 have had at Halo and in all cases, they’ve fucked it up in some way or another. Halo 4? The story was good, multiplayer was trash. Halo MCC? Amazing in theory and is at this present time but they fucked that big time at launch and left it in limbo for at least a year before it got to a playable state. I’ll never get over how bad they botched that game at launch. It basically confirmed to everyone that was a Halo fan that they are no good for the series.

Halo 5? The misleading marketing and terrible campaign just speaks for itself and now we get Infinite, a game with 5 year dev time and massive budget and they had to delay it from being a launch game because they also botched that so badly even with all the time and money they had at their disposal. Even now while they’ve improved it and it’s multiplayer is getting high praise, it’s hard not to feel like they fucked it again.

It would be a massive decision to make and regardless if Infinite becomes a huge success story, Phil Spencer should be considering axing Bonnie from 343 and Xbox or just outright hand the franchise into more capable hands. It’s a shame they’ve left their flagship franchise to be beaten down as bad as it has.

No matter how good this game turns out to be, I think Halo and Xbox have lost a lot of respect due to how badly this franchise has been treated. Everything else in Xbox is looking up bet yet the let Halo down again.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
the game looks like a x360 game in 4k the geometry is cheap lighting is cheap particles are cheap animations are cheap this doesnt look next gen at all, i can even argue that halo 4 had better art direction and killzone shadow fall a ps4 launch title looks more next gen than this and saying its because its open world is bullshit. the game just looks cheap and pretending it looks nice is just suicide
Whose alt account is this?
 

BbMajor7th

Member
All I’ll say is that this is the 4th attempt that 343 have had at Halo and in all cases, they’ve fucked it up in some way or another. Halo 4? The story was good, multiplayer was trash. Halo MCC? Amazing in theory and is at this present time but they fucked that big time at launch and left it in limbo for at least a year before it got to a playable state. I’ll never get over how bad they botched that game at launch. It basically confirmed to everyone that was a Halo fan that they are no good for the series.

Halo 5? The misleading marketing and terrible campaign just speaks for itself and now we get Infinite, a game with 5 year dev time and massive budget and they had to delay it from being a launch game because they also botched that so badly even with all the time and money they had at their disposal. Even now while they’ve improved it and it’s multiplayer is getting high praise, it’s hard not to feel like they fucked it again.

It would be a massive decision to make and regardless if Infinite becomes a huge success story, Phil Spencer should be considering axing Bonnie from 343 and Xbox or just outright hand the franchise into more capable hands. It’s a shame they’ve left their flagship franchise to be beaten down as bad as it has.

No matter how good this game turns out to be, I think Halo and Xbox have lost a lot of respect due to how badly this franchise has been treated. Everything else in Xbox is looking up bet yet the let Halo down again.

The studio management clearly isn't stellar and yes, MCC was honestly a huge gaff, but from a product perspective, I think they have a huge ask on their hands. What Halo fans really want is to recapture the magic of the early 2000s, which you can't do, because the industry and culture around gaming has moved on so much. If they hew too much to Bungie's original template then it just becomes a second rate shadow of yesteryear, and they're accused of aping what went before or playing it too safe. If they try to modernize the franchise (as they have with Infinite), they're accused to moving away from the series' roots or capitulating to modern trends.

I think the boring truth is that you can't really improve upon the originals - because they were perfect in their own time. And this is something that businesses are as loath to admit as fans: that art exists in it's own cultural context and removed from that loses much of it's appeal. Halo was jaw dropping when I played it back in secondary school, but it will never feel that way again, because that universe and that style of game design that was so mind-blowing back at the turn of the century, will never be that fresh again.

Happens time and again in games, films, everything really. It's made me realise you have to learn when to disconnect from the things you love, before you get spoiled on them.
 

Raonak

Banned
I think the open world design sounds a bit meh.
Open world was hot in 2017... We'll see, will the core gameplay be engaging enough?

But also it just doesn't look like a showpiece game. Id much rather boot up Forza horizon if I wanted to show off the x, which is a shame considering it's the flagship franchise of xbox
 
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Madog

Banned
The studio management clearly isn't stellar and yes, MCC was honestly a huge gaff, but from a product perspective, I think they have a huge ask on their hands. What Halo fans really want is to recapture the magic of the early 2000s, which you can't do, because the industry and culture around gaming has moved on so much. If they hew too much to Bungie's original template then it just becomes a second rate shadow of yesteryear, and they're accused of aping what went before or playing it too safe. If they try to modernize the franchise (as they have with Infinite), they're accused to moving away from the series' roots or capitulating to modern trends.

I think the boring truth is that you can't really improve upon the originals - because they were perfect in their own time. And this is something that businesses are as loath to admit as fans: that art exists in it's own cultural context and removed from that loses much of it's appeal. Halo was jaw dropping when I played it back in secondary school, but it will never feel that way again, because that universe and that style of game design that was so mind-blowing back at the turn of the century, will never be that fresh again.

Happens time and again in games, films, everything really. It's made me realise you have to learn when to disconnect from the things you love, before you get spoiled on them.
recapturing the magic of 2000s or nostalgic halo look has nothing to do with cheap graphics, ratchet and clank rift apart has captured the old nostalgic look so spectacularly and halo infinite has no reason at all to look like that, a flat shaded world with cheap particle effects has nothing to do with recapturing the 2000s magic this is clearly 343's failure theres no excuses
 

Sony

Nintendo
Agree with a lot of the critisism DF have put forward. Halo: Infinite is not a looker. This is made even more obvious when they switched over to footage of Halo: Reach campaign and the difference wasn't obvious. In all honesty, Halo: Reach at 4k native at 60fps would't look a generation behind Infinite.
It is quite concerning. Yes, I'm a Halo fan first and foremost for the gameplay. But man, did Halo 2 look good back in the day and even Halo 3, resolution aside looks really good.

I just don't know with this game. It also concerns me that this is apparently a new engine. I woner how they will scale up the graphics from here. Halo: Infinite seems to be a game with the sharpness filter turned to 11, it's IQ is great! But everything else... animations, enemy models, lighting..

Adittionally, I really dislike Brutes, they're boring opponents. I hope the campaign has enough variety for me to like it. I hope we see prometheans again. They're 'digital nature' gives endless opportunity for enemy variety. Play with that, 343!
 
is it the multiplayer or the story that most interests you the most?
The multiplayer looks pretty fun if a bit slow. I mainly play apex legends which makes lots of multiplayer look slow. The fact that it's free is what interests me the most. I'm cheap. I'm getting a month of GP for horizon so I might as well try Halo sp as well which looks more fun than the mp to me. The grapple although slow looks quite fun and I always enjoy the FC/just cause style games if only for 10-20 hours. Again since I'll have gp anyway if it looks fun I might as well give it a go.
Tldr
Gamepass
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
I will be fair
Took some notes. Hopefully I summarized accurately....

-Talk a bit about the open world, RPG skill tree and "resource management" aspects. "Grinding to level up". Alex says he is "worried" about the campaign because he wants more classic Halo level designs.
-Beach blonde dude is "cautiously optimistic". 343 only shown off one area. Wants to see more of other areas.
-Open world graphical ramifications. "Less artist driven game". Concern over night-day diminishing artistic aspects.
-More realistic looking than last year's reveal. Less "plastic" looking.
-No pop-in like previous version
-Better cloud rendering
-Improved lighting, especially reflective lighting on structures
-Characters in shadow are fully lit
-Some animations are 30fps
-Complains about sparks when ship falls on platform
-Missing ambient occlusion in areas
-Shadow-casting on foliage/trees is off
-No motion blur, depth of field
-Alex says this is a better showing than it was before, but still skeptical of campaign gameplay
I didn't watch the video yet, but based on this summary, I believe their "worries" about the campaign are somewhat understandable. I actually thought a bit about it as well... we still have only seen one area, so we don't know how varied or how large will be the other areas of the game, AND I was a bit worried with that whole thing of destroying bases on the gameplay showcase.

I fear it can bring elements of Ubisoft games which, if ends up being the case, might hurt the quality of the game... I think what makes Halo great is that it was never filled with boring stuff to make it feels longer, like what Ubisoft open-world games turned out (and what makes people so worried about open world games lately as well).

I mean, by the trailer we cannot assume it WILL have the problems of a Far Cry title, for example. But it did let some room for speculations.

Other than that, I think it does look like the best Halo since 343 took part of the franchise.
 

skit_data

Member
Wierd, the way Alex came off in the DF Direct earlier this week made it sound like he would have tons of issues and that he would just keelhaul the campaign trailer in this dedicated analysis.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
The difference in quality of the content that John and the rest of DF produces is staggering.

John should start his own YouTube channel.

And Microsoft should scrap Slipspace Engine and utilise Id Tech moving forward.
 
This is originally an X1 game its also an open world FPS.
Far Cry 6 too
med_544fe959-33b4-4e90-9d8b-ece902ccfbec_FC6_Screen_Vista_200712_945pm_CEST_Resized.jpg
 

Riky

$MSFT
It's obviously a pretty substantial upgrade graphically, as for gameplay structure we'll see but the days of linear campaigns seem to be over for the most part and we will see if maybe the DLC will bring it back or it will be an expansion of the gameplay we see here.
No mention of any technical aspects like Tier 2 VRS which is disappointing.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
It looks fucking amazing honestly.


(…)


Long story short, I'm very impressed by the game visually and on a technical level considering its new game design structure and all the potential it has.

You’re entitled to your opinion of course but I just don’t understand who you think you’re helping by deliberately lowering expectations and standards just to save 343’s face.

There’s no way you actually believe this looks amazing or impressive, otherwise you will think 99% of the games out there look amazing and impressive.

The whole “it’s cross gen” argument doesn’t work at all either considering other games that are also cross gen.
 
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Some of this comes off as very nitpicky but I must confess I don't like the lighting - it just looks off somehow. I know it's much harder artistically and computationally with a day/night cycle but I definitely don't love it.

The biggest problem I have is the NPC lighting. I hated the glow in the dark characters in Ghost of Tsushima and I hate them here.
 

th4tguy

Member
While im pleased with the way the game looks overall, this part of the video really irked me when Alex pointed out all the flaws. I get that every game especially console games have these compromises, but ffs this game was delayed a year ago. I defended Alex last year when he said they need to replace their lighting system with RT GI and I even wanted them to add RT reflections to all armored suits and vehicles to give it a next gen sheen. But you can clearly see that despite the realtime time of day changes, the lighting feels half baked (no pun intended).

And isnt the game just 30 fps on the base xbox one? they cant blame this on the game being 60 fps. Every cross gen game is 60 fps. Hell, far cry just came out and its 60 fps on consoles and it doesnt seem to have those issues. I think this is just a matter of them releasing the game on like a million consoles and not being able to take advantage of a single spec a la cyberpunk. they are too busy trying to get this thing to just run on last gen consoles, and that means less time overall for pushing the xsx to its limits.
Releasing the game on a million different systems WITH a brand new engine. They are literally developing the engine with the game.
It's not a death sentence but the odds are most definitely stacked against them.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
recapturing the magic of 2000s or nostalgic halo look has nothing to do with cheap graphics, ratchet and clank rift apart has captured the old nostalgic look so spectacularly and halo infinite has no reason at all to look like that, a flat shaded world with cheap particle effects has nothing to do with recapturing the 2000s magic this is clearly 343's failure theres no excuses

I'm not sure it's nostalgia so much as the difficulty maintaining the unique appeal of a series beyond its initial era (Shenmue III is a the starkest example I can think of).

I agree the visuals aren't great, but that's most likely a mixture of studio management, project scope (which is probably too great) and alignment, the latter being the biggest issue to my mind. My guess is that this was supposed to be XB1's swansong (like Ghost of Tsushima was for PS4) with a sexy Director's Cut edition landing in 2021 that would have looked stunning by contrast. But due to delays (COVID probably played a part) they found themselves limbering up for a console launch release and simply weren't in a position to deliver the 'next gen' visuals that it implied.

I think the product marketing team deserve a share of the blame for messaging and strategic placement. They had to know, with PlayStation showing off next-gen exclusives, journalists and fans would be looking to Halo: Infinite as the XSX response. Knowing they would only draw negative press on that front, they should have moved the conversation to one of features and roadmaps and deliberately showed off only PC footage to keep the conversation away graphical comparisons. Alas, they didn't and they'll continue to contend with this kind of commentary.
 

Razvedka

Banned
Biggest issues are things they will patch. The game is never going to be the showcase some people think it should be, but it looks damn fun to play.

That said, the fact that these issues are the same that other Halo games have had, tells me this is not really a new engine.
Well in fairness to 343, if they were handed a mandate to make this game work from XB1 =====> XSX it was never going to be a 'showcase'. That's a tall ask for anybody.

While I haven't seen XB1 footage, I think the XSX version looks pretty reasonable. The true showcase will be the next title in a couple years when it's next-gen only.
 
You’re entitled to your opinion of course but I just don’t understand who you think you’re helping by deliberately lowering expectations and standards just to save 343’s face.

There’s no way you actually believe this looks amazing or impressive, otherwise you will think 99% of the games out there look amazing and impressive.

The whole “it’s cross gen” argument doesn’t work at all either considering other games that are also cross gen.
Some of it does look fantastic. Some of it not so much. You know... Like most games
 

FireFly

Member
From what I can tell, they were talking about Live in general, not Halo 4.


Most of these stories can be repackaged to fit whatever side of the "culture war" you are on. (Banning abusive language / "policing" sexism, making characters believable / pandering to SJWs, highlighting minority employees / low skilled "diversity" hires.)
 

Maxwell Jacob Friedman

leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
This is originally an X1 game its also an open world FPS.
Question, is it actually open world ala gta, red dead, horizon etc or is it open hub area like god of war etc. Because if you cant go everywhere in the game you want to go its not open world. Many people have been misunderstanding lately what open world actually means
 

Ev1L AuRoN

Member
Thanks to game pass I'll give this game a shot, I'm not even banking too much on the presentation since I realize that is a path to disappointment. If the gameplay is solid and the campaign is fun that's all I care about.
 

GymWolf

Member
Agree with a lot of the critisism DF have put forward. Halo: Infinite is not a looker. This is made even more obvious when they switched over to footage of Halo: Reach campaign and the difference wasn't obvious. In all honesty, Halo: Reach at 4k native at 60fps would't look a generation behind Infinite.
It is quite concerning. Yes, I'm a Halo fan first and foremost for the gameplay. But man, did Halo 2 look good back in the day and even Halo 3, resolution aside looks really good.

I just don't know with this game. It also concerns me that this is apparently a new engine. I woner how they will scale up the graphics from here. Halo: Infinite seems to be a game with the sharpness filter turned to 11, it's IQ is great! But everything else... animations, enemy models, lighting..

Adittionally, I really dislike Brutes, they're boring opponents. I hope the campaign has enough variety for me to like it. I hope we see prometheans again. They're 'digital nature' gives endless opportunity for enemy variety. Play with that, 343!
26b7c20bc2fbc93bbbf932e5a4307dca.gif
 
I'm not knocking anyone's opinion of Alex your entitled to it.
I don't get offended at all by anything he says. He points out some stuff eg the 30fps parts and I'm like shit I wish I never seen that I'll probably notice it now. I know 99% of the time if I wanted the ultimate version I would have to get a 3080 and above but I'm happy with my PS5, Series X and yes my Series S.
It's absurd that the Series X should have to have 30 fps animations to begin with. Forget not being a 3080, it's a next gen console and it still has the same 30 fps animations as we had all of last gen! I don't know how developers keep finding ways to make these new consoles look weak and disappointing. Stuff like 30 fps animations, 30 fps cut scenes, lack of 16x AF, etc

Things we dealt with last gen like this are such eyesores. There's got to be a way for these consoles to move beyond last gen glaring limitations like this. I continue by downward opinion of this gens ps5 that I bought. I let the marketing and SSD hype get the better of me. I watched too many YouTubers hype these consoles.

Halo Infinite is clearly not scaling up the way we hoped either. It's very underwhelming. Those particle effects, the 30 fps animations on a 12 tflop machine.
 

GymWolf

Member
One of the worst enemy types. I hate the flood with a passion but the prometheans were just not interesting enough.
I take floods every day of the week.

Shooting at prometheans was like shooting with a pea shooter, barely any fucking reaction and just that annoying teleport...
 
Within the DF analysis or users misrepresenting it?

Haven't paid too much attention to this thread so you might save me a read.

Definitely only referring to people in this thread.

The only way to really deal with trolls is to starve them of what they desire most, attention.
 
The Halo team has it rough to be honest, have to target original Xbox One consoles, have split screen multiplayer that everyone ask for and will complain about but barely anyone uses, and maintain 60fps throughout. Throw that in with an open world campaign structure and this is about what you get. Cant think of many other games with all these target limitations.

Also this is more of my opinion but them trying to recreate classic halo design also makes all the objects, materials, and enemies look flat. That art style was made with system limitations of 2001. But of course if they changed it "Halo fans" would bitch endlessly
IMO Halo shouldn't be crossgen. I don't like Horizon being crossgen either.

These flagship titles need to go all out. And it's been a year already.
 
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