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Do you like truly difficult content in games?

Celcius

°Temp. member
So I like to play final fantasy 14 and I’m a level 90 dragoon but I mainly play through the story plus raids / trials / etc… at normal difficulty. As I’m walking through town I see someone with an amazing shiny weapon. Intrigued, I walk up and asked about it. The weapon I want is the Ultimate Halbard of the Heavens and the only way to get it is by doing the Dragonsong Reprise Ultimate, a really really hard group fight involving multiple back to back bosses within a time limit. And before you can even attempt it (besides needing strong gear) you have to clear the 4 current Savage trials (boss fights). As I start researching this more, I find out about groups who even race to be the world’s first to clear this Ultimate raid, and how they have to do it without the help of a guide through trial and error. The person I talked to said it took their group 35 days of practicing this fight to clear it.

I want that weapon but I usually don’t like difficult content. I usually like to just play for fun, enjoy the story, and collect a few things along the way. After learning what it takes to get that weapon I doubt I’ll ever get one and I have a lot of respect for the people who do.

What about you guys… do you just mainly like to play games casually and enjoy the story? Do you like a real challenge in difficulty? Or do you enjoy going after the most difficult content in a game and possibly even competing with others?
 

ViolentP

Member
Depends. If the game has solid mechanics and smart difficulty scaling then yeah, I would prefer the challenge especially if there is a fair reward at the end. But difficulty is often slapped on by turning up dials and challenge doesn't scale that way.

In the case of FFXIV specifically, I still look at those extreme challenge goals with wonder and hope to get there one day.
 
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AMistOfFleas

Neo Member
Back in the day yes when we had our guild and downed BC bosses and especially the Lich King, but now days I just don't have time for it, I enter the game, do quests and then LFR's and then logout. Only reason I play it is because I have been playing since 2004 so its hard to put down now. I just dont have time for it to do mythic or even heroic, but doing harder stuff is always much more rewarding at least for me. What I do now is spend my time building my skillset in certain games, like for example an RC helicopter simulator, that took hundreds of hours to get good enough where I'm no longer crashing so its much rewarding now cause you can pull off stunts, which I compare it to learning a new instrument or a skill. What I don't like is doing something that takes no skill, for example, mining a gas cloud, there is no skill involved in that so its not like you get better at it after a while. I'm talking about actual skillsets here and not the system a game uses to determine a skill, for example every time you mine said gas cloud you earn 1 point for whatever reason, that's a waste of time for me, it was not always like this for me.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum


 

lem0n

Gold Member
Eh, depends. I like difficulty, but not insurmountable difficulty. As a racing fanatic, this is how I think of it:

I have hundreds of hours in the Dirt Rally games, known to be some of the hardest driving games out there. With practice and learning new techniques, I've finally gotten to understand the games. It feels good to finally be fast. Very rewarding.

However, I also have hundreds of hours in the Forza Horizon games, but the Unbeatable bots are so unfair it's not fun at all. No matter what I use, the shortcuts I take, the scummy ramming tactics I need to utilize... nothing changes. This is horseshit.
 
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OuterLimits

Member
I'm in my 40s now. Sadly, most games requiring quick reflexes have become challenging. Lol. Fortunately, grand strategy, dungeon RPGs, and SRPGs have always been my favorite genres, so quick reflexes aren't often required.
 
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22•22

Doesnt need recognition
Depends man. I like it most when I can restart the moment i fuck up Had FZeroGX on my mind.

If the difficulty depends on bad random AI reactions then no.
 
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magnumpy

Member
hell yes!

and there are plenty of games available if if you find a particular one too challenging. just play something else in that case. but variety as they say is "the spice of life" and getting my ass viscously beaten is just a cause to get better and very spicy ^_^
 

Knightime_X

Member
Only if I'm in the mood for it.
If it's dumb hard just to be hard, then it's an easy pass for me.
If I can't enjoy the game\story first and master it later then nah.
 

daveonezero

Member
I like where systems matter. I like where defense is a thing.

I hate it when games have all the buff and Deb IDF systems and none of it really matters.

If it doesn’t affect the game why is it even in there. If I don’t have to use it or there is no noticeable change or in fact it actually makes things go slower or more difficult Ifind it hard to really care about what is going on.
 

laynelane

Member
I get bored when games are too easy. I don't like feeling overpowered and enjoy overcoming challenges, it keeps me invested and immersed. That said, the challenge needs to be fair too and/or the reward worth it.
 

Fbh

Member
Not really.
I only like specific types of challenges. I love stuff like FROM Software bosses, for example the final boss of Sekiro is the ideal type of challenge for me: Challenging but fair, usually takes less than 10 minutes regardless of me loosing or winning, and when I die I can easily and quickly try again.

I don't really like challenges which are a test of endurance, like having to fight multiple bosses in a row, or having to go through a long dungeon or platforming section with no checkpoints, or bosses with boring design that just have a billion health points and the challenge becomes not screwing up during a repetitive 40 minutes fight.
 

Magic Carpet

Gold Member
  • Easy
  • Normal
  • Hard
  • Master I: +60% Gold Find, +60% Magic Find, +120% Experience
  • Master II: +70% Gold Find, +70% Magic Find, +140% Experience
  • Master III: +80% Gold Find, +80% Magic Find, +160% Experience
  • Master IV: +90% Gold Find, +90% Magic Find, +180% Experience
  • Master V: +100% Gold Find, +100% Magic Find, +200% Experience
Why all games can't do this bewilders me.
 

Esca

Member
I use to enjoy hard content for some games but not like I use to. I use to never look up a guide to get past a spot a was stuck on. But now with my memory/concentration being severely degraded I look one up pretty much after trying a handful of times if I'm not progressing on my own anymore. I play most games on normal as that is how the game was meant to be played. I'll raise or lower difficulty if I can on the fly for some parts to.
My younger self would not have believed it.
 

CamHostage

Member
Yes... to a point?

I think my problem with the whole "gitgud" mentality about how it's a positive when a game is too hard for all but the elite is that games are mass media and story-based now, for better or worse. If somebody pays $70 for a product but cannot fully enjoy the base experience that product, that's a poor product experience. (Beginning to end, at least; extra content or challenge modes are what they are.) So I'm in favor of challenge settings and easy modes and things of that nature everywhere. When gamers complain about "Who would want to play a Soulslike on easy?!", the answer is a lot of people who like everything about these Soulslikes but cannot complete them, and that's fair reason to do it.

Still, there's no euphoria quite like reaching that level where you can achieve what you previously thought impossible, and there's value in game designers focusing on challenge as a value. And you can get a clip of the ending of any game easily online. So there are good reasons to make a game real hard.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
So I like to play final fantasy 14 and I’m a level 90 dragoon but I mainly play through the story plus raids / trials / etc… at normal difficulty. As I’m walking through town I see someone with an amazing shiny weapon. Intrigued, I walk up and asked about it. The weapon I want is the Ultimate Halbard of the Heavens and the only way to get it is by doing the Dragonsong Reprise Ultimate, a really really hard group fight involving multiple back to back bosses within a time limit. And before you can even attempt it (besides needing strong gear) you have to clear the 4 current Savage trials (boss fights). As I start researching this more, I find out about groups who even race to be the world’s first to clear this Ultimate raid, and how they have to do it without the help of a guide through trial and error. The person I talked to said it took their group 35 days of practicing this fight to clear it.

I want that weapon but I usually don’t like difficult content. I usually like to just play for fun, enjoy the story, and collect a few things along the way. After learning what it takes to get that weapon I doubt I’ll ever get one and I have a lot of respect for the people who do.

What about you guys… do you just mainly like to play games casually and enjoy the story? Do you like a real challenge in difficulty? Or do you enjoy going after the most difficult content in a game and possibly even competing with others?

Just to clear up some minor confusion and “fear” with FFXIV’s content. Savage Raids aren’t really that difficult. If you have a group of decently geared folks with brains, you will clear it within 3-4 days, usually. They are really the “hard” content for a casual player, but a moderate to hardcore player will still find the content rather simple and easy.

Ultimates are Raid Boss fights that *are* difficult, but are also very much over exaggerated on their difficulty. World First raider’s will always make things seem far more complicated than they really are. Now that the “race” is over and we have entire guides on every facet of the fight, its just a matter of putting it together with a group of geared players. Usually a month or two and you will get it down, but that is like maybe 1-3 nights a week at a few hours at a time that you are spending practicing. Generally, once you beat it, the fight is rather trivial.

Been doing this in MMOs for decades now and there really is no reason to be afraid or intimidated by trying it.

As for your question, it all depends on what the “difficulty” is. I enjoy games that test my skills and bring a fair challenge. Dark Souls, Elden Ring, Batman Arkham City Challenges, etc. But when its heavily reliant on “RNG” or trial and error as the game doesn’t give you enough time to actually understand waht is going to happen or what is coming up? Then I despise it. Kaizo Mario is a perfect example of this dreck.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
In modern games no. I just play normal.

But during the old generations, I always put the game on whatever the hardest difficulty was. It made the shooter or platformer last longer. A lot of those old ass 8 and 16 bit games can be beat in the first hour or two if you got decent skills playing for the first time on normal skill.

Difficulty level was the wild west back then. Some games were so easy on normal. Some games had OP weapons. Some had bosses which you could kill in the first 5 seconds because some reason in a lot of those old games, when the boss comes on screen, they'd let your man or spaceship nail it with weapons for 5 seconds before it can even attack you. You might kill it before it even does anything.

That was the drawback of games back then. The programmers had no idea on difficulty scale and OP weapons. I dont think you get that now.
 
I'm old and the line between challenging and frustrating grows thinner every day. Generally, if the game is good and I'm enjoying myself I'll stick to it.
Some games people consider difficult are among my favorites: From's catalogue, Spelunky, Issac, Gungeon.
It really comes down to fun and enjoyment. I don't get enjoyment from fighting a boss 57 times, that shit makes me want to die.
 

jaysius

Member
There's a huge leap from "difficulty" in a MMO and difficulty in something like Soulslike games. MMOs are just grinds anyway, with simplistic unfulfilling combat, the difficulty of monsters in that is usually exaggerated to encourage a raid style "play together" vibe, with padded HP on the monster, that kind of difficulty is annoying and more aggravating than anything. Typically in a MMO the difficult monster is just a pallette swap of a monster that was less difficult, usually using the same moves but spammier.

Elden Ring's difficulty where the boss reads your inputs, isn't really the right way to difficulty either.

I liked the difficulty of Doom 3, they put more baddies in and made you slightly weaker, that kind of difficulty is worth playing. As someone mentioned, older games were more original and creative with difficulty, nowadays most difficulty curves are created from gimping your character and making baddies spongier, it's not really fun.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
There's a huge leap from "difficulty" in a MMO and difficulty in something like Soulslike games. MMOs are just grinds anyway, with simplistic unfulfilling combat, the difficulty of monsters in that is usually exaggerated to encourage a raid style "play together" vibe, with padded HP on the monster, that kind of difficulty is annoying and more aggravating than anything. Typically in a MMO the difficult monster is just a pallette swap of a monster that was less difficult, usually using the same moves but spammier.

Elden Ring's difficulty where the boss reads your inputs, isn't really the right way to difficulty either.

I liked the difficulty of Doom 3, they put more baddies in and made you slightly weaker, that kind of difficulty is worth playing. As someone mentioned, older games were more original and creative with difficulty, nowadays most difficulty curves are created from gimping your character and making baddies spongier, it's not really fun.

Tell me you dont play MMOs without telling me you don’t play MMOs.
 
Depends. If the game is balanced around the hardest difficulty (and thus scaled down to easier difficulties), then yes. Some games will even tell you what difficulty the game was balanced around (it is usually normal). Bayonetta was balanced around NSIC and feels amazing on the hardest difficulty. Post release "hard modes" don't work at all, and are essentially choice limiters in loot based games.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
No.

Most of the time "super difficult" just equates to the devs taking lazy, half-assed measures like the way From relied on input reading in Elden Ring. Fake difficulty.

Just give me a fun game instead. I am here to enjoy myself. Not be some goofy adult virgin that needs to find challenge in a video game designed for children.
 

Dynasty8

Member
Yes, absolutely. 100%. I love tough challenges and nothing in games for me beats that satisfaction of overcoming it. Especially when it comes to challenging content with friends (Destiny 2 & FFXIV raids/dungeons come to mind).

Nowadays if a game isn't challenging enough, it honestly becomes a chore for me. It gets boring REALLY fast when there's no consequences and when your hand is being held the entire time.

It's an automatic deal breaker for me. I stopped playing Elder Scrolls Online for that reason.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Member
If it's actually difficult, yes.
The c-tier take-away-core-mechanics-fake-difficulty trash game designers can take their challenge and shove it someplace dark.
 
Of course, unchallenging games often end up being quite boring.

I like a good designed challenge. Just recently I found the joy that is 1CCing old arcade-style games from the 16bit era, like Alien Soldier or Metal Slug, and I think it's the most fun I had in a while.
 
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