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Doctor Stranges Erasure Of Tibet Is A Political Statement
- Thread starter Arnie7
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Comfort Jones
Banned
Wouldn't be the first time.
Care to make a follow up post explaining this extremely odd example?
boiled goose
good with gravy
This should be criticized.
Considering not watching this in theaters now.
Considering not watching this in theaters now.
How did you want us to take what you said? You're not being rational at all. Frankly, you are being ignorant. So I will say it. You are a dumb white guy who doesn't get it. Read the link I gave you and learn why whitewashing adversely affects people more than changing a white role to a POC role.
Choppasmith
Member
Okay okay, you win! Uncle! Uncle!
It wasn't my intention to upset you or anyone else. When I said, "I'm sorry you feel that way." I didn't just throw it out as some "Oh boohoo" remark. I really meant that. I'm sorry I can't comprehend things like you do because of my "white privilege". I've never considered myself better than anybody. I've never been the kind of guy that just assumes the worst out of things, which was the reason I posted in this thread. Please forgive my ignorance.
Well, I'm not trying to win an argument because that doesn't solve anything. Rather, I wanted to see how you could come up with that reasoning. I might have come off a bit offensive, and I do apologize for that. It's just that this topic really boils my blood and it's upsetting to see so many people accept it without thinking about the POV of people these decisions affect. You might not consider yourself better than anybody, but just based on your skin color, you already have many advantages that minorities do not have. That's just how our society works unfortunately.
CadetMahoney
Member
Basically you're saying there are no examples so we have no idea how they approach this. I guess we'll have to wait for the first case study to unravel the mysteries of the Ministry of Culture that needs to approve foreign entertainment.
UnemployedVillain
Member
"I goofed" is really the only thing he can say
The article should really be putting the greater share of the blame on Disney in this case. Their explanation that SARFT needed to be appeased doesn't seem to adequately cover their choice of depictions. Still, the greater takeaway should be that SARFT is the most influential censorship organization in the world, and that their influence is only growing at this point.
There are Chinese films about Tibet, and these films have been allowed by SARFT. It's more that Disney is covering their butts over the casting mess.
Distraction because it's a stereotype. Now it's this odd androgenous person. She's otherworldly. Rather than an Asian stereotype, which is all over Marvel/DC comics already.
Let me be clear though. This has taken away a Asian role away from an Asian actor. No doubts about that. Do I think Asian actors should get more work? Yes. Should they be cast in a part that would be seen as hackneyed, old school asian-master stereotype? Nope. Could they have done it? Sure. Do I prefer the casting of Tilda Swinton? Hell yes.
A Link to the Past
Banned
The notion that casting an Asian man would be a "hackneyed, old-school Asian master stereotype" is a notion that speaks quite strongly about what people think an Asian role can be. If the actor can't be Asian because it will cause people to think that the role was stereotypical, that means that the stereotype is still there.
Chicken or the egg? Does China back off first or does Hollywood grow a pair and put a gay relationship in a big-budget movie?
Hollywood has no leverage over SARFT, so isn't the outcome obvious?
"The Chinese government also decried the film's positive portrayal of the 14th Dalai Lama. Director Jean-Jacques Annaud and stars Brad Pitt and David Thewlis were banned from ever entering China."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years_in_Tibet_(1997_film)
It wasn't until 2014 that Brad Pitt was allowed back in.
True Savior
Member
The tdk post is so funny. It's the exact opposite of the point he is presumably trying to make.
Sure thing, Comfort Jones!
No need to be aggressive, mate. Bloody hell!
I only just caught up with this thread after quickly posting this last night. Had no idea it had kicked up such a controversy. Let me explain, boys!
It's actually kind of funny that people are protesting the example because as a previous film studies student, our old film lecturer highlighted this very example in the "Dark Knight" when discussing the tradition of major Hollywood studios changing elements of a film to make it more appealing to foreign markets. So if that wasn't the case, somebody lied to me!
Some of the posters are saying "Well, it wasn't released in China in the end so that's totally the wrong kind of example!" are causing me to raise something of an eyebrow though. Just because Chinese distributors weren't necessarily happen with how the sequence came out when the film was completed, doesn't necessarily change what the studio's intentions might have been at the beginning when it came to making this film more appealing to overseas markets.
I mean, we have a Batman film revolving around Batman struggling to overcome the corruption in Gotham City, only to have a rather out of place sequence of Bruce Wayne and Lucius Fox chilling out in Hong Kong? I don't think it's untoward to suggest that the motivation for the studio when shooting that film was entirely for the purposes of furthering the narrative.
Frustratingly, I'm having a hard time online finding an article that could shed some light on this one way or the other. If I was misinformed about the behind the scenes intention of the scene, then I apologize. If I am wrong...I am prepared to write a personal apology note to Christopher Nolan...all from the comfort of my luxurious hotel suite at the Kempinski Hotel, situated in Downtown Hong Kong. Boasting stunning views of Hong Kong's own Shenzhen Bay, tourists can book a room now from as low as £137. So what are you waiting for? Book a room today!
Discotheque
Banned
....yeah your film professor lied to you.
it's got a dude bragging about how he can take corrupt mob money to Hong Kong without fear of extradition. Oh and he paid the local hong kong police too for protection.
Hardly glamorizes the place or panders to the foreign audience. Not even remotely on the same level of Iron Man 3 or Transformers 4 for example. (not necessarily saying it's a bad thing either btw, though sometimes it is way too in your face imo)
Unless we think all non-american settings are used to bring in worldwide audiences now...sometimes they really are just for story and visual purposes.
it's got a dude bragging about how he can take corrupt mob money to Hong Kong without fear of extradition. Oh and he paid the local hong kong police too for protection.
Hardly glamorizes the place or panders to the foreign audience. Not even remotely on the same level of Iron Man 3 or Transformers 4 for example. (not necessarily saying it's a bad thing either btw, though sometimes it is way too in your face imo)
Unless we think all non-american settings are used to bring in worldwide audiences now...sometimes they really are just for story and visual purposes.
JediLink
Member
I've seen Dark Knight 3 times and only in my most recent viewing did I connect the dots that Lau was burned alive. Yeah, I'm inattentive but it's surprisingly downplayed compared to what you'd expect.
Angelus Errare
Banned
They should have made Dr. Strange Asian. That would have been ground breaking and new.
I actually believe the countries worked together on the arks, they just picked China for the build for the same reason we do: mass labor force. It was the G8 that footed the bill. It also showed Tibet in quite a prominent setting so it got approved despite that. Tibet (and the Lama?) were very important in the movie IIRC.
That's really the scary part to me.
They allow depictions of Tibet. I believe what they don't allow is a positive portrayal of the Dalai Lama or showing Tibet as independent.
A big chinese movie called "Phurbu & Tenzin" that's specifically about Tibet and chinese had no problems with being released and even got all sorts of awards in China. However it also portrays the Dalai Lama's leadership as very cruel
From a synopsis:
http://www.filmbiz.asia/reviews/phurbu-tenzin
The character of the ancient one seems heavily inspired by someone like the Dalai Lama, and when he's living in Tibet the connection would be even more obvious. I imagine that's why Marvel wanted him to be a different gender and race.
Wish this info had been shared in the last thread on this subject. So there aren't even money excuses on Marvel's part as there were a multitude of regions they could have chosen (particularly India) that would have not offended any foreign markets, been accurate to the comics, and also not white washing the role of the ancient one.
This is exactly my point though, brother. At a series of scenes that are supposed to service the story of the film, they don't gel very well at all. They sticks out from the film like a sore thumb. You've got a story about The Joker running around, throwing Gotham into chaos...only for Bruce and Lucius to chill out in Hong Kong for a couple of days. They feel bizarrely misplaced. It's like Peter Parker going off to visit Tokyo halfway through Spiderman 2.
Hell, Hong Kong was even being used fairly strongly in the marketing before China pulled out of the distribution side of things.
Discotheque
Banned
is Scorsese banned from China for making Kundun?
anyways this is really sad news on Disney's part but understandable at this point :/
edit: i don't think that stuff stuck out at all. kind of just proves that batman's hand is far reaching....no it's nothing like that nonsensical spiderman example bruh. lol wth. Bruce Wayne is an international billionaire. The chinese accountant has holdings in Hong Kong. He flees the US as many criminals tend to do...batman brings him back. That's all....
anyways this is really sad news on Disney's part but understandable at this point :/
edit: i don't think that stuff stuck out at all. kind of just proves that batman's hand is far reaching....no it's nothing like that nonsensical spiderman example bruh. lol wth. Bruce Wayne is an international billionaire. The chinese accountant has holdings in Hong Kong. He flees the US as many criminals tend to do...batman brings him back. That's all....
Agree to disagree. At the very least, I recognize that the example I provided was a far cry away from being as iron-clad as I previously thought.
Underestimeting the enourmous cultural impact of Hollywood, esp Disney, is amusing. Wrong, but amusing.
This is why I loved Nolan's Batman films, he had so many little bits like that. Like how Ra's and Bane have the same hands on jacket pose.
This is exactly my point though, brother. At a series of scenes that are supposed to service the story of the film, they don't gel very well at all. They sticks out from the film like a sore thumb. You've got a story about The Joker running around, throwing Gotham into chaos...only for Bruce and Lucius to chill out in Hong Kong for a couple of days. They feel bizarrely misplaced. It's like Peter Parker going off to visit Tokyo halfway through Spiderman 2.
Hell, Hong Kong was even being used fairly strongly in the marketing before China pulled out of the distribution side of things.
There is a severe misunderstanding of how The Dark Knight was not screened in China. China didn't ban the Dark Knight. Warner Bros never sent it to China for review for whatever cultural reason that they never really outright specify.
They only burned their half
I don't understand why people are happy to drop the issue at the idea that it's all driven by money. Well yes but so are a lot of industries and actions in the market but that doesn't mean that companies don't also hold and can be held accountable for social responsibility.
If you don't care about this particular issue then it would be preferable to say that than just saying a profit motive means what Marvel is doing is okay.
He is.
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