Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The same could have been said about the jump from 2D to 3D gameplay in the 90s. "Just a different style." I don't see it that way.
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Does Horizon forbidden west looks next gen or current gen?
The same could have been said about the jump from 2D to 3D gameplay in the 90s. "Just a different style." I don't see it that way.
assurdum
Banned
Well in the poly counts almost surely.
Lethal01
Member
Agree to disagree then, I cringe when I see kids who think 2D games are lesser than 3D games.
I think better vertical mobility or improved melee combat are just as "Next gen" as better world simulation.
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01011001
Banned
what? do you expect the PS4 pro version to look like a completely different game? do you expect them to release an unoptimized version for last gen?
no, what will happen is the PS4 version will be 1080p30 and the pro will be 2160cb or 1800cb at 30fps
draw distance will be slightly lowered, as will foliage density. but if you'll look at a screenshot of the pro version on its own you will not be able to tell if it's the PS5 or PS4 pro version without having a comparison shot next to it.
why do I expect this? because the game doesn't use any graphics features that a Pro can't use, and it needs to be optimised for PS4, and one way to easily use next gen power without much work is pumping up draw distance and foliage. but that alone will also take a big hit to the GPU, and they most likely want to run at native 4k on PS5, which also takes up a lot of GPU resources
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CartoonsNCereal
Banned
If they ran it as 60 they are sacrificing graphics, it would look worse graphically. You do understand simply running at 60 fps isnt inherently "next gen" right? any game on any console can run at 60 fps with the proper concessions....
Are you a noob, or just a console gamer who never tinkered with graphics setting before lol
RoadHazard
Gold Member
It looks like a PS4 game that couldn't actually run on a PS4, if that makes sense. There is no next-gen tech, just better looking versions of what we've seen before. Nothing about it makes me think "wow, this would never have been possible before".
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SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
I think we need to see it running at 60 to know for sure. That's been the next gen thing for me.
GHG
Member
Yes, that's called personal preference. I'm talking from a technical standpoint in terms of rendering techniques employed.
True, which is why I'm not saying ME:EE is a next-gen game and HFW isn't, I'm saying neither of them are, but the lighting quality of ME:EE is not something you can see from any other game on the previous-gen consoles, while the level of detail difference is much closer between HFW & previous games on PS4/XB1.
Again, let me re-state it: HFW looks GREAT! But it isn't from a technical standpoint a true next-gen title. Once it starts doing RT lighting, using VRS+FSR, Mesh shaders, etc. all of the technical capabilities of RDNA 2 on consoles (as seen under the DX12U spec also) then I'll be happy to concede the point. It's all meaningless quibbles anyway.
Until all of that happens though, there's only one game which has both phenomenal lighting AND the incredible texture & model detail and density in an open world environment, and that's an unfair comparison because it's only on the highest-end PCs. Nonetheless it stands alone.
There's a lot to unpack here...
So you're suggesting that because it doesn't have certain technical features that it's not next gen? So the final result isn't important, just cram all those "next gen features" and buzz words in there and suddenly we have a next gen game? I don't care how they arrive at the final solution, all I care is whether my eyes like what they see.
These are screenshots of Metro Exodus maxed out running on my system:
No amount of amazing lighting is saving those poor assets. The game looks stunning a lot of the time thanks to the lighting but it is not consistent. Then when you consider the character models, animations, etc, to be honest it's a poor example to even bring up.
And Cyberpunk, again, maxed out:
There are some very impressive things Cyberpunk is doing from a technical standpoint, look at the ray traced reflection in the traffic lights for instance:
Like you said, the density of the world is very impressive however overall it is nowhere near as striking as Horizon FW.
I would actually say that overall the following two are among the best looking games available on PC at the moment:
Assassins Creed Valhalla:
A plague tale:
But again the density and overall visual presentation just aren't there (a plague tale is also a level based game rather than open world). Granted, we've only seen a small area of Horizon so far so we don't know whether that carries through to the whole map but if it does then it stands alone for now.
The only game I will allow in to this discussion is flight sim 2020 which is a fully next gen game, and we are yet to know how it will even run on consoles yet (good luck with your suddenly beloved 60fps here
Hendrick's
):
Flight sim is a game that will quite literally say "fuck your PC". It doesn't matter what hardware you have, it will make it cry. Top notch materials, lighting and particles.
For anyone saying it looks current gen or that you are currently playing games that look just as good:
Silent Viper
Banned
Pretty graphics alone don't make game nextgen. Its the whole game design which defines whether game is current or nextgen game. If whole game is running on base PS4 then you can't call it next gen as its design around limitations of old PS4 hardware.
I meam Game doesn't even support RT or native 4k60fps mode.
Ratchet looks nextgen but Horizon is very pretty looking current gen game. There is nothing on Forbidden west that not possible on PS4 design wise. So its a CURRENT GEN GAME.
Graphics looks very pretty in Metro Exodus as well on Ultra High pc with Full on RT but that doesn't make it nextgen.
Cyberpunk on 3080 with full on RT on looks insanely good but its not nextgen.
I meam Game doesn't even support RT or native 4k60fps mode.
Ratchet looks nextgen but Horizon is very pretty looking current gen game. There is nothing on Forbidden west that not possible on PS4 design wise. So its a CURRENT GEN GAME.
Graphics looks very pretty in Metro Exodus as well on Ultra High pc with Full on RT but that doesn't make it nextgen.
Cyberpunk on 3080 with full on RT on looks insanely good but its not nextgen.
GHG
Member
The UE5 demo didn't use RT nor was it 4k60fps. So that wasn't next gen? That wasn't impressive?
Flight Sim will do neither on console. I take it you will say that isn't next gen either?
Do people use their eyes or are you just looking at a list of arbitrary bullet points? If it's the latter then you have a whole generation of disappointment ahead of you.
GHG
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
Keep Asobo out of this console war rubhish
Wait Flight Simulator is 4K@60FPS with RT on the XSX?
Holy shit that's extremely impressive. I definitely wasn't expecting that at all.
Damn Team Asobo are absolute wizards.
Dolomite
Member
Until we get official spec analysis of the Series version I can't be told otherwiseWait Flight Simulator is 4K@60FPS with RT on the XSX?
Holy shit that's extremely impressive. I definitely wasn't expecting that at all.
Damn Team Asobo are absolute wizards.
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mansoor1980
Gold Member
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CamHostage
Member
Heh, if it's the latter, then maybe they won't be disappointed, because at least at some point we'll get games that check off all the bulletpoints (although Nanite doesn't play well with RT so maybe even then, it won't all add up.) So for them it'll be like, "Ah ha - BINGO! Five in a row, I now have a next-gen game!!"
The rest of us will have to live in the reality that "generations" is something of a nebulous concept.
I'm no expert or game designer, but this is a good breakdown of the difference between a demo and a full game, and IMO a fair assessment of game production changes that too easily get summed up as "downgrade". There are for sure aspects of the original trailer that I wish played out that way in the final game (the interlude where you close the gate and battle a single freaker while the hoard breaks down the walls from the outside is an outstanding moment!, and it's curious that some animations don't trigger the same in that sequence even though they exist elsewhere in the final game.) There are other aspects that clearly just got changed as the game design and story evolved (the freakers all huddling in a nest at different times of day instead of roaming freely, for instance,) or play bits that seem right conceptually when you see them in the early video but you could see being broken/exploited by players in testing (the chokepoint of the rope bridge for instance might have been too easy to wipe out the whole hoard with a good gun if they hadn't let some freakers come at you from the back way.) Both instances were playable, in-engine demonstrations (although calling everything "in-engine" gets complicated since so much of tradeshow demos are held together with duct-tape-and-bubblegum and have to be totally rewritten for a final game; also, as the narrator explains, the first Days Gone video may have been made before the full open-world chunks were constructed, so that little one-stage demo playground may be in the engine they made the game with but it's under way different constraints of memory management and storage of assets on the disc than the final game has to deal with.)
You learn a lot about how games are made by watching breakdowns of early-to-final gameplay sessions. And you lament when something great had to be "downgraded" for the final game. Hopefully, though, you gain appreciation for the games you get, or eagerness for future games to exploit abandoned ideas/technologies, and don't get too hung up on disappointment that everything isn't always the way the creators tried to make it be.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Until we get official spec analysis of the Series version I can't be told otherwise
The heck you mean you didn't hear it from a leak?
WTF is wrong with you?
Whitecrow
Banned
I will start to have a dedicated cup for 60 fps stupidity tears.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
Just a glance seems like they added GI into the retail version of the game. But it completely blows away all shadows causing the image to look flat. The PC doesn't have this problem because they computed SSGI with ambient occlusion which keeps the lit look but also adds the shadows from the 2016 version.
Yselacrey00
Banned
Christmas hitter... Did they finally reveal the release date?
We shall see how long you think this....
To me...its not that complicated.
"Does HFW...look...next gen or current gen"
To me, I'm thinking we just talking about how it looks.
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John Wick
Member
Krappadizzle
Member
To me it kind of walks the line. It kind of looks next-gen in a lot of ways, but it also doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility with what we've seen on current-gen either. It doesn't have that "pop" that R&C does. It feels/looks like a half-step.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
When you think Horizon is one of the best looking PS4 Pro games, the sequel in terms of everything from triangle count, lighting, textures, character models, animation, vegetation, particles, destruction, alpha are all much, much better than the original.
Yes, it’s next gen. The PS4 version will look very basic in comparison.
Yes, it’s next gen. The PS4 version will look very basic in comparison.
Krappadizzle
Member
There's a lot to unpack here...
Like you said, the density of the world is very impressive however overall it is nowhere near as striking as Horizon FW.
The only game I will allow in to this discussion is flight sim 2020 which is a fully next gen game, and we are yet to know how it will even run on consoles yet (good luck with your suddenly beloved 60fps here
Flight sim is a game that will quite literally say "fuck your PC". It doesn't matter what hardware you have, it will make it cry. Top notch materials, lighting and particles.
For anyone saying it looks current gen or that you are currently playing games that look just as good:
I dunno, I feel like you are conflating art direction against tech. And to be fair, they DO go hand-in-hand, Horizon has always had a very strong art direction when it comes to world design and enemy robo-dinos and it does a lot to make it look great because you aren't used to seeing things like it.
I don't think Horizon looks better than CP2077, but I do think it looks as good because it has such unique art direction. It's the same reason that BotW looks amazing, playing BotW on PC at just an upscaled resolution and framerate really helps that art-direction shine through and helps the game look great. We both agree on Flight Sim though.
Horizon doesn't seem like it's doing much more than what we've seen on PS4 already. It definitely looks good, but it doesn't look like it's ONLY possible on next-gen hardware and I'd even say the onus is on people to point out how it can only be done on next-gen than those that say "show me a game that looks as good" as you could make a reasonably fair comparison with quite a few different game. I guess the real test will be when we see it running on PS4 if rumors hold true. And if that's the case, we'll understand why it's not as impressive as it could be.
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
The footage looks next gen but they will downgrade drastically for PS4
Rea
Member
Have you watch Digital Foundry reaction on this gameplay trailer? They said "never seen any game like this in any ps4 games." Richard is concerning on how this will run on ps4. He speculated this will be downgraded not just the resolution.
Krappadizzle
Member
I haven't watched it yet. To me, it feels like a half-step. I do think it looks great, would never say otherwise, to me, it just doesn't blow me away like R&C does. And people will pick-and-choose whether they like what Digital Foundry is saying as long as it supports their feelings at the time so I take everything with a grain of salt. I generally agree with most of what they say to begin with, but they've been shown to make pretty inaccurate statements from time-to-time. And I say this as a fan of DF AND wanting to like Horizon in general.
Honestly, I wouldn't/shouldn't make a definitive statement one way or the other as until I see it running on PS4, it's entirely possible that I'm wrong and I'd love to be wrong in this case. I want to see games that are only possible on next-gen hardware and I'll admit that my memory may be a bit rose-tinted, but from what I'm seeing, Horizon isn't blowing me away in any substantial way over what I've played of Horizon running on PC.
I'm more curious as to what people are seeing that makes them think it looks "next-gen" that I'm not seeing.
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Rea
Member
I mean many people think this way, not just DF. I agree with what you said, they've been wrong from time to time.
RC definitely looks better in terms of polished visual quality. The image quality is alot cleaner.
But Horizon looks more demanding, you can see very detailed foliage everywhere, godrays, volumetric fogs, hair rendering, sand deformation etc. Not to mention it is also an open world game. I'm sure this game will be polished when it is launched. Just give devs sometimes. I'm confident this game will looks better.
existensmaximum
Member
Which PC game do you think looks as good as this? Because I haven't seen one, honestly.
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BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Lots over the past several years. I guess I could go through my Steam library if you want, but off the top of my head, even Red Dead 2 looks this good on PC when running 1440p with all the shadows and lighting settings cranked up and that game is like three years old right?
Not taking anything away from Guerilla, I think all of the Sony studios do amazing work and this is no exception.
existensmaximum
Member
I totally agree here. When i run Metro Exodus on my RTX 3080, the only thing that is impressive at all, is the lighting sometimes. It's certainly not the inconsistent texture quality, bad character models, foliage, crappy animation and other assets...There's a lot to unpack here...
So you're suggesting that because it doesn't have certain technical features that it's not next gen? So the final result isn't important, just cram all those "next gen features" and buzz words in there and suddenly we have a next gen game? I don't care how they arrive at the final solution, all I care is whether my eyes like what they see.
These are screenshots of Metro Exodus maxed out running on my system:
No amount of amazing lighting is saving those poor assets. The game looks stunning a lot of the time thanks to the lighting but it is not consistent. Then when you consider the character models, animations, etc, to be honest it's a poor example to even bring up.
And Cyberpunk, again, maxed out:
There are some very impressive things Cyberpunk is doing from a technical standpoint, look at the ray traced reflection in the traffic lights for instance:
Like you said, the density of the world is very impressive however overall it is nowhere near as striking as Horizon FW.
I would actually say that overall the following two are among the best looking games available on PC at the moment:
Assassins Creed Valhalla:
A plague tale:
But again the density and overall visual presentation just aren't there (a plague tale is also a level based game rather than open world). Granted, we've only seen a small area of Horizon so far so we don't know whether that carries through to the whole map but if it does then it stands alone for now.
The only game I will allow in to this discussion is flight sim 2020 which is a fully next gen game, and we are yet to know how it will even run on consoles yet (good luck with your suddenly beloved 60fps here
Flight sim is a game that will quite literally say "fuck your PC". It doesn't matter what hardware you have, it will make it cry. Top notch materials, lighting and particles.
For anyone saying it looks current gen or that you are currently playing games that look just as good:
Same thing with Cyberpunk - even if it looks A LOT better than Metro. The ray-tracing is extremely impressive and I can look at it for days, but there's so much in that game that just looks mediocre, especially when it comes to characters and animation.
Same thing can be said about AC Valhalla, it's really not impressive to me.
Horizon Forbidden West blows
these games out of the water in my opinion.
Rea
Member
Yup, those PC games are incredible in terms of technical achievement and looks really awesome. But they have low poly models everywhere, you can sharp edges all over everything. Subsurface scattering on skins in this game looks CGI level.
Silent Viper
Banned
UE5 demo was using 8k textures. Was Horizon using 8k textures. UE5 demo showed us how fast SSD is by streaming insane amount details really fast?. UE5 not possible on PS4 but Horizon 2 is on PS4. So if game is on PS4 then how its nextgen, its cross gen.
Flight sim only on nextgen hardware. PC and seriesX. Its doing something no other game ever did. You can't compare it with any game. Its most nextgen game ever lol.
Horizon 2 not doing anything special to make it a nextgen game. You would hope it will do atleast RT, but its not even doing that. Its pretty colourful game with improved animations (still look inferior to Last of us 2 animations) that's it.
I brought RT in discussion coz its not doing anything else which we can is nextgen.
Rea
Member
The game already looks beautiful and high quality characters and impressive facial animations, it doesn't need RT. RT won't make the game already beautiful to become more beautiful. Sure, it will help clean up some soft shadows shimmering and will have higher quality lighting. But if using RT will draw back some of the high quality features of the game, then RT is not worth it.
Silent Viper
Banned
Looks you havnt experienced RT on PC lol.
Yeah its pretty game but RT will enhance it greatly. But people should stop capping and label a current gen game as nextgen as its made for PS4 hardware in mind.
There's nothing about HFW to make it nextgen, pretty graphics isnt enough to be called nextgen coz there are lot of pretty games out there. I mean Aloy clothes doesn't even get wet when she comes out of water lol. No wet physics in the game lol.
Hell RDR2 did more in its open world than any nextgen game out there. Not a single developer out there who can match level of detail of RDR2 world. I can bet 1000$ that HFW not doing even 50% stuff that RDR2 did in its open world.
Im excited for HFW but people should stop label it as OMFG Nextgen here lol. RDR2 feels more nextgen on my pc on max settings than this game.
Robo dinosaurs most unique stuff about HFW, you remove them and you have a static generic open world with pretty graphics. RDR2 open world feels alive and dynamic and real.
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Rea
Member
You should watch again if you didn't see the water dripping from her body and clothes, it's not obvious due to bright light. RT won't enhance greatly, especially outdoor open world games like this. It doesn't have many shiny surfaces like mirrors, RDR2 looks great but has Lots of low poly models everywhere and also low textures on some characters, hair rendering on RDR2 looks shit. Skin rendering in this game is also superior than RDR2. Horizon 3 will look better than this but this game is already looking like great especially character models.
Gameplaywise it is subjective due to how they have different game design . RDR2 is more like realistic western cowboy shooter, Horizon is more like apocalyptic world with fictional dino bots. Personally i feel RDR2 is more boring, I played both games and love them both. For storyline RDR2 is better no contest, but for gameplay HZD is better. That's my opinion.
Galatico91
Member
There's a lot to unpack here...
So you're suggesting that because it doesn't have certain technical features that it's not next gen? So the final result isn't important, just cram all those "next gen features" and buzz words in there and suddenly we have a next gen game? I don't care how they arrive at the final solution, all I care is whether my eyes like what they see.
These are screenshots of Metro Exodus maxed out running on my system:
No amount of amazing lighting is saving those poor assets. The game looks stunning a lot of the time thanks to the lighting but it is not consistent. Then when you consider the character models, animations, etc, to be honest it's a poor example to even bring up.
And Cyberpunk, again, maxed out:
There are some very impressive things Cyberpunk is doing from a technical standpoint, look at the ray traced reflection in the traffic lights for instance:
Like you said, the density of the world is very impressive however overall it is nowhere near as striking as Horizon FW.
I would actually say that overall the following two are among the best looking games available on PC at the moment:
Assassins Creed Valhalla:
A plague tale:
But again the density and overall visual presentation just aren't there (a plague tale is also a level based game rather than open world). Granted, we've only seen a small area of Horizon so far so we don't know whether that carries through to the whole map but if it does then it stands alone for now.
The only game I will allow in to this discussion is flight sim 2020 which is a fully next gen game, and we are yet to know how it will even run on consoles yet (good luck with your suddenly beloved 60fps here
Flight sim is a game that will quite literally say "fuck your PC". It doesn't matter what hardware you have, it will make it cry. Top notch materials, lighting and particles.
For anyone saying it looks current gen or that you are currently playing games that look just as good:
Excelente comparisons. With the scenes of pre-show, we can have a ideia of how will be the density and graphics for the rest of the game, the snow environment particularly has density and draw distance far better than any open-world I saw on PS4/Xbox One generation:
Darius87
Member
epic said that UE5 scales down to mobiles so by your logic UE5 is not next-gen engine.
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