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DOOM (1993)

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
I, too, played it to completion for the first time not long ago and had an absolute blast. I‘d never completed E3 before.

It’s true that E1 is still top Doom when it comes to level design. E3 tends to be all about closets in way too many instances. You take a few steps, a closet full of cacodemons has opened behind you and you’re at half health before you realize what’s going on. Save scumming is definitely recommended there. Also I played on Hurt Me Plenty, Ultra Violence just has too many enemies and that gets in the way of appreciating the level design imo. Doom 1 is about exploration as much as it is about killing. Which is why I didn’t like Doom 2 as much and I’ve dropped it somewhere in the middle of E2: the emphasis is all on shooting there, and the level design is completely at the service of cheap traps and gang attacks.

Doom 64 has some fantastic level design too. Pity about the game’s disproportionate passion for Barons, there‘s one behind every goddam door. Too bad the game came out exclusively on N64 at a time when Doom was dropping in popularity, and Goldeneye completely stole the scene shortly afterwards anyway.

OG Doom is one of the purest gaming experiences ever. Completely fat-free, fast, simple, tight controls, perfect length, outstanding pacing. Something like that just can’t get old.
 

Guilty_AI

Member

Been meaning to try this one for a while. Never played Hocus Pocus but still, this wad looks soulful and fun.
What about this one?

 

RAIDEN1

Member
This game was the writing on the wall for Commodore in 1993 that their systems could no longer cut it...CD32 or no CD32......everyone else got a port....bar Commodore..
 

nkarafo

Member
DOOM II indeed has issues with the level design. The levels are not as good as in DOOM I, especially the first episode. DOOM II feels like a compilation of levels that were cut from DOOM I because they were too experimental or something.

On the other hand, DOOM II has the new monsters and they are all amazing. After playing so many megawads that feature the complete roster, the og DOOM feels like there's not enough variety in comparison. And of course, it introduced the Super Shotgun, which is obviously the best weapon in the history of videogames.


This game was the writing on the wall for Commodore in 1993 that their systems could no longer cut it...CD32 or no CD32......everyone else got a port....bar Commodore..

Well, the 3DO and Saturn got their ports but i think it would be better if they didn't at all...

The SNES port was... interesting? More like a tech demo IMO. I'm sure a CD32/Amiga 1200 would be able to handle a port of similar quality (or lack of). But i do agree that DOOM helped PCs to put the final nail on Amiga's coffin.

And the Jaguar got the best port, at least until the PS1 got it's own. That was a huge missed opportunity for Atari though. Jaguar DOOM was released during the DOOM craze and everyone who owned a 16bit console (which was the vast majority) thought of it as a "dream game" because only 486 PC owners could enjoy it. It was a pretty good port considering the price of the hardware. Amazing even. But Atari was too busy trying to push AVP as the killer app, with it's crappy wolf 3D like engine and poor frame rate. They should have go all in pushing their DOOM port. Market it as the only way to play the game if you don't own a PC.
 
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I started playing the OG Doom within Doom Eternal on the old PC in the workshop. I just meant to play for a few minutes and before I knew it I'd finished the whole thing. This was while playing Doom Eternal which I'd only meant to play for a couple hours to shake the rust off before playing The Ancient Gods expansions, but ended up completely replaying as well.

Doom games are addictive.
 
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Bragr

Member
Can you guys imagine how astronomical this game's impact is ? There would be no Valve and Steam without it. There would be no Epic, no Unreal Engine, no Fortnite. And any of the gazzilions of forks that evolved along the years out of all of these. There would be no Call of Duty, no Halo, no Battlefield. Who knows when the FPS genre would have emerged and how it would have looked without Doom. There were first person games where you shoot since the 70s, before Doom. But there was no FPS genre. No blueprint. There was no concept of "lets make an fps". Mind blowing
I am pretty confident most of those games and studios would come to be in some form without Doom.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
I am pretty confident most of those games and studios would come to be in some form without Doom.
Actually, if i remember correctly, the main thing that inspired Gabe Newell to leave Microsoft and start working on games was Doom, because he saw the game was a more popular software than Win 95. At the very least, neither Valve nor Half Life might've existed without Doom.
 
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IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman

AI and Games is a YouTube series on research and applications of Artificial Intelligence in video games.

DOOM is one of the most important games of all time, and the AI behind it is just as impressive now as it was almost 30 years ago. In this 66(6)th episode, let's go and find out how it all works.

[00:00] Intro
[00:37] The AI of DOOM
[02:57] Core AI Logic
[08:18] Defining AI Actions
[14:29] The 'See' State
[18:52] Reactions
[21:17] Designing Encounters
[25:46] Closing
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
I am pretty confident most of those games and studios would come to be in some form without Doom.

100% they would not. At least not in the way that matter and had the effect they did. Doom was the reason that Gabe made Valve and got into game making at all. It is 100% certain there would be no steam, no valve and no Half Life. I know that since this and era are entirely console forums, they gloss over pc games with ease and their influence, such as Half Life, but if there would be no Half Life, the entire gaming ladscape would be different.

Epic was doing sidescroolers and quickly started chasing and copying id after Doom for pretty much the entire 90s. They ended up with Unreal in 1998 and selling their engine due to chasing a Doom and later Quake killer. The entirety of gaming that exists on every unreal engine version is a dirrect effect of Doom and Quake existing.

How would Halo or COD or Battlefield exist without the creator of the genre that is Doom ? Their father ? As ive said, there were games in first person for nearly 20 years before Doom. Yet the FPS genre never existed until then. Because it was an amalgam of ideas, there was no coherent whole. A game that would serve as a blueprint. Until Doom. It is probably the most important game of all time, faaar more important and valid than a lot of other titles you usually see, like super mario for example.
 
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nkarafo

Member
If you read up on the backstory of both of those ports you'd know the developers and hardware was capable. They just got fucked by the suits to get something ported for the quick bucks.
Yeah, i know the stories. The Saturn one hurt the most. The 3DO port got fucked for the reasons you said, incompetency by some higher up who doesn't know anything and wants the quick bucks. Which is a pretty common reason for games to get fucked so whatever. But the Saturn port got fucked by Carmack himself. Not for the quick buck and certainly not because he is incompetent or doesn't know his field. But because he was stubborn and selfish about his own engine.
 

nkarafo

Member
How would Halo or COD or Battlefield exist without the creator of the genre that is Doom ? Their father ? As ive said, there were games in first person for nearly 20 years before Doom. Yet the FPS genre never existed until then. Because it was an amalgam of ideas, there was no coherent whole. A game that would serve as a blueprint. Until Doom. It is probably the most important game of all time, faaar more important and valid than a lot of other titles you usually see, like super mario for example.
I mostly agree on what you say about the PC landscape but i think consoles would not be affected as much. There was another game that pushed FPS games on consoles and that was Goldeneye in 1997. See that game, despite being an FPS, wasn't inspired by DOOM or any other FPS after it, it was inspired by games like Virtua Cop and Time Crysis. It was changed to an FPS later in development because they thought it would be better if instead of on-rails, you had free movement. But the first person perspective was chosen because they wanted a shooting gallery.

Other than the camera perspective there isn't that much DOOM DNA in Goldeneye. The game plays very differently and if you exclude the camera there isn't anything similar to DOOM. But Goldeneye did inspire a lot of Console FPS games after it became so successful. Remember that FPS games weren't as prominent on consoles, even after DOOM. Consoles were mostly about fighting, platform and racing games. FPS games were mostly prominent on PCs after DOOM. This only changed after Goldeneye was released.
 
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DukeNukem00

Banned
I mostly agree on what you say about the PC landscape but i think consoles would not be affected as much. There was another game that pushed FPS games on consoles and that was Goldeneye in 1997. See that game, despite being an FPS, wasn't inspired by DOOM or any other FPS after it, it was inspired but games like Virtua Cop and Time Crysis. It was changed to an FPS later in development because they thought it would be better if instead of on-rails, you had free movement. But the first person perspective was chosen because they wanted a shooting gallery.

Other than the camera perspective there isn't that much DOOM DNA in Goldeneye. The game plays very differently and if you exclude the camera there isn't anything similar to DOOM. But Goldeneye did inspire a lot of Console FPS games after it became so successful. Remember that FPS games weren't as prominent on consoles, even after DOOM. Consoles were mostly about fighting, platform and racing games. FPS games were mostly prominent on PCs after DOOM. This only changed after Goldeneye was released.


Goldeneye doesnt share many details with Doom, but it shares the genre and the fundamentals. It evolved its own idea of an FPS, but without Doom's revolution, nobody would have made Goldeneye. There would have been no reason to. No blueprint. No idea in the producers head, when they could have made some sidescrooler or platformer instead. Goldeneye still has the pillars of Doom - the weapon in front of you, the general movement style, the way the bricks are layed out. But it did its own thing - they made a game tailored for consoles that played to its strength, instead of subpar ports of pc shooters like it mostly was until then.

What Doom did is make the FPS genre start existing in a way that people understood. Until then, if you were a game developer and you wanted to make something with guns, you would have to imagine things mostly from scratch in your head. There was no mold for it. But then, after Doom, you knew. Thats a "game with guns". Thats the general idea
 

nkarafo

Member
but without Doom's revolution, nobody would have made Goldeneye.
As i said, Goldeneye was originally going to be a Virtua Cop/Time Crysis game. These games have nothing to do with DOOM, they were an evolution of older shooting gallery games that existed way before DOOM or Wolf 3D. And at some point in development they figured they could release the character from it's on-rails movement so they modified the rest of game and level design around that.

Now, i'm not saying they didn't follow some established FPS rules after their decision. But my point is that even without DOOM, Goldeneye would still be made and end up a as game where you move in first person and shoot things. How different it would be without DOOM poplarising FPS games, i dunno. But don't forget that DOOM wasn't the first FPS. Goldeneye shares as much with it as it does with Wolfenstein 3D or even older games like Catacomb 3D.
 
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nush

Member
Now, i'm not saying they didn't follow some established FPS rules after their decision. But my point is that even without DOOM, Goldeneye would still be made and end up a as game where you move in first person and shoot things.



 

Bragr

Member
100% they would not. At least not in the way that matter and had the effect they did. Doom was the reason that Gabe made Valve and got into game making at all. It is 100% certain there would be no steam, no valve and no Half Life. I know that since this and era are entirely console forums, they gloss over pc games with ease and their influence, such as Half Life, but if there would be no Half Life, the entire gaming ladscape would be different.

Epic was doing sidescroolers and quickly started chasing and copying id after Doom for pretty much the entire 90s. They ended up with Unreal in 1998 and selling their engine due to chasing a Doom and later Quake killer. The entirety of gaming that exists on every unreal engine version is a dirrect effect of Doom and Quake existing.

How would Halo or COD or Battlefield exist without the creator of the genre that is Doom ? Their father ? As ive said, there were games in first person for nearly 20 years before Doom. Yet the FPS genre never existed until then. Because it was an amalgam of ideas, there was no coherent whole. A game that would serve as a blueprint. Until Doom. It is probably the most important game of all time, faaar more important and valid than a lot of other titles you usually see, like super mario for example.
First of all, FPS games were developed far earlier than Doom. There have been FPS games since the 70s, and it's a genre that would have come around in the 90s with or without Doom. Doom greatly sped up the process, but you are overexaggerating a lot here. The nature of a first-person viewpoint is way too important and natural to develop, and other FPS projects than Doom were also being developed around the same time.

What happened is Carmack developed a technology that allowed 3D environments to be rendered quickly, which pushed FPS games ahead a few years, but it would still emerge at some point no matter what.

And why are you glossing over Wolfenstein and Catacombs? which Doom is built upon, that's where the spark really started.

Is not "100% certain" that there would be no Valve (lol) without Doom. Newell was enterprising either way.

What Doom did, was shift the direction of shooters for 10 years or so, revolutionize FPS technology, sped up the development of online and greatly popularized PC gaming, inspired countless developers and other franchises, and made shareware viable.

But no, Doom is not more important than Mario. Mario made Nintendo, Nintendo shifted their company after the success of Mario and the NES, and would likely not be around without that game. Nintendo has shifted gaming more than any company. Hell, even iD made their first money on Mario clones.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
It's funny how the game still good in this day and age. I keep playing and enjoying regularily. And with GZDoom it looks and feels like I remember it back in the days.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
First of all, FPS games were developed far earlier than Doom. There have been FPS games since the 70s, and it's a genre that would have come around in the 90s with or without Doom. Doom greatly sped up the process, but you are overexaggerating a lot here. The nature of a first-person viewpoint is way too important and natural to develop, and other FPS projects than Doom were also being developed around the same time.

What happened is Carmack developed a technology that allowed 3D environments to be rendered quickly, which pushed FPS games ahead a few years, but it would still emerge at some point no matter what.

And why are you glossing over Wolfenstein and Catacombs? which Doom is built upon, that's where the spark really started.

Is not "100% certain" that there would be no Valve (lol) without Doom. Newell was enterprising either way.

What Doom did, was shift the direction of shooters for 10 years or so, revolutionize FPS technology, sped up the development of online and greatly popularized PC gaming, inspired countless developers and other franchises, and made shareware viable.

But no, Doom is not more important than Mario. Mario made Nintendo, Nintendo shifted their company after the success of Mario and the NES, and would likely not be around without that game. Nintendo has shifted gaming more than any company. Hell, even iD made their first money on Mario clones.
I think you are indeed underselling Doom's importance. Doom was not the first FPS, but I do agree that it is easily the most important. In fact, I have argued that id Software may very well be the 2nd most important developer of all time. Nintendo would have to be numero uno in terms of overall gaming influence. Maybe that means I am agreeing with you afterall.

In terms of important evolutionary FPS, I would go with Doom --> Quake --> Unreal --> Half-Life --> Halo --> Call of Duty. However, Doom was the game that put PC gaming on the map. From about 1993 to 2001 until the release of the xbox, PC gaming was it's own unique thing and was so far ahead of anything on the consoles. That was such a fun time to be alive. Don't get me wrong, there are other important games that came from those eras. "What if's?" are always fun though.
 
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DukeNukem00

Banned
First of all, FPS games were developed far earlier than Doom. There have been FPS games since the 70s, and it's a genre that would have come around in the 90s with or without Doom. Doom greatly sped up the process, but you are overexaggerating a lot here. The nature of a first-person viewpoint is way too important and natural to develop, and other FPS projects than Doom were also being developed around the same time.

What happened is Carmack developed a technology that allowed 3D environments to be rendered quickly, which pushed FPS games ahead a few years, but it would still emerge at some point no matter what.

And why are you glossing over Wolfenstein and Catacombs? which Doom is built upon, that's where the spark really started.

Is not "100% certain" that there would be no Valve (lol) without Doom. Newell was enterprising either way.

What Doom did, was shift the direction of shooters for 10 years or so, revolutionize FPS technology, sped up the development of online and greatly popularized PC gaming, inspired countless developers and other franchises, and made shareware viable.

But no, Doom is not more important than Mario. Mario made Nintendo, Nintendo shifted their company after the success of Mario and the NES, and would likely not be around without that game. Nintendo has shifted gaming more than any company. Hell, even iD made their first money on Mario clones.


The points you make about the first person viewpoint i've already made earlier actually. Thats exactly the point - you say how important this view is, but it existed for 20 years without meaning much at all. The viewpoint is important because Doom made it important. I also mentioned why i glossed over Wolf and Catacombs. Its because we had to reach Doom's design and gameplay for the genre to be "born". What i mean by this, is not that it invented the first person viewpoint. That it created a blueprint which everyone else then followed. Overnight, you just had the FPS genre, which follows the framework that Doom created, to this day.

Im not overexagerating the game in the slightest. Steam and Unreal engine, together with everything this entails, exist because of Doom.

No, nintendo didnt do anything more important than this. Because everything nintendo did and always will do, will be confined to the console space. Computers existed entirely outside of nintendo and what consoles were doing. You're not playting mario and a million sidescroolers today, no ? You're playing the descendants of Doom, that are running on Unreal Engine (which exists thanks to Doom) and you;re downloading them on Steam (which exists thanks to Doom)
 
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nkarafo

Member
Yes, there were a bunch of FPS games before DOOM. But DOOM was the first one that had the engine to give the first person view justice.

Consider every other FPS game before DOOM. At best, you would end up with a game that features simple looking levels made exclusively of orthogonal boxy rooms and corridors, with no architecture detail or features. How many distinct environments you can make with such tools? The DOOM engine made it possible to have proper 3D environments to freely explore, with very few limitations (for the time) on commercial systems.

Yes, good level design, art direction, gameplay, etc played a huge role obviously but nothing would be possible if the engine didn't allow it. The result was something that no other game could compare outside of a few state of the art games in arcades. Like another poster said, FPS games would emerge anyway even without DOOM, but DOOM sped up the process significantly. The jump from the most advanced FPS game before DOOM to DOOM was massive. And who knows how long it would take for Silverman to make his Build engine if DOOM didn't boost the standards the time it did?
 

Bragr

Member
The points you make about the first person viewpoint i've already made earlier actually. Thats exactly the point - you say how important this view is, but it existed for 20 years without meaning much at all. The viewpoint is important because Doom made it important. I also mentioned why i glossed over Wolf and Catacombs. Its because we had to reach Doom's design and gameplay for the genre to be "born". What i mean by this, is not that it invented the first person viewpoint. That it created a blueprint which everyone else then followed. Overnight, you just had the FPS genre, which follows the framework that Doom created, to this day.

Im not overexagerating the game in the slightest. Steam and Unreal engine, together with everything this entails, exist because of Doom.

No, nintendo didnt do anything more important than this. Because everything nintendo did and always will do, will be confined to the console space. Computers existed entirely outside of nintendo and what consoles were doing. You're not playting mario and a million sidescroolers today, no ? You're playing the descendants of Doom, that are running on Unreal Engine (which exists thanks to Doom) and you;re downloading them on Steam (which exists thanks to Doom)
Several genres in gaming existed for 10-20 years without "meaning anything". The viewpoint was important beyond Doom, everyone knew it was gonna one of the most dominant genres once the technology allowed it. First-person shooters would and did evolve outside of just iD, even though they were the industry leaders by far early on.

To say that the FPS genre, Steam, and Unreal exist solely because of Doom would be like to say that every action-adventure game exists because of Zelda. Not all shooters are "descendants of doom", only run and gun games are. Most shooters these days are descendants of Half-Life, and before you say "Half-Life is inspired by Doom", Half-Life is what it is because it stepped away from the run-and-gun shooters.

Call of Duty, Battlefield, these games are not shooters like Doom. Quake, Unreal, Blood, Hexen etc..., that are the games you can claim as Doom descendants, not everything within the genre. Most shooters nowadays follow completely different design philosophies. They don't follow any Doom blueprint.

PC storefronts would still exist today without Doom, and so would game engines, they are not born purely of Doom. Sweeny would still make an engine.

I can't even fathom that you just said Doom is more important than Nintendo. That is the most absurd fanboy nonsense ever uttered on this forum. You think the NES, SNES, Gameboy, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii-U, Switch, Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, 35 years of gaming innovation is less important than fucking Doom?

"You are not playing Mario and 2D platformers today"? what? Mario has been a massive brand for 35 years. Yes, I am playing Mario and a massive amount of platformers, just like millions and millions of others are.
 
Actually, if i remember correctly, the main thing that inspired Gabe Newell to leave Microsoft and start working on games was Doom, because he saw the game was a more popular software than Win 95. At the very least, neither Valve nor Half Life might've existed without Doom.
Not to mention GoldSrc, the engine they used for Half-Life, is basically the Quake engine with a few modifications. And I doubt we'd had anything near as cool as Quake in '96 without having DOOM in '93.

And it's not only the technology. What about the deathmatch scene? People setting up server in their own homes to host matches? Shit must have been crazy back in the day (no internet for me in 93, also I was 2 y/o :lollipop_content: )

I'd recommend this book to anyone interested in the story behind the game, the people who did it and all the consequences it had at the moment.

 

DukeNukem00

Banned
Several genres in gaming existed for 10-20 years without "meaning anything". The viewpoint was important beyond Doom, everyone knew it was gonna one of the most dominant genres once the technology allowed it. First-person shooters would and did evolve outside of just iD, even though they were the industry leaders by far early on.

You're aguing against some nonsensical point of view that cant be proven. Which several gaming genres existed for 20 years without meaning anything ? Your argument is that the actual genesis of a genre is not really important because it would have been made anyway. And then your try to prove this point by saying that the viewpoint was used for 20 years without the fps genre existing. Your arguing against hard facts with supositions that have no anchor in reality.

To say that the FPS genre, Steam, and Unreal exist solely because of Doom would be like to say that every action-adventure game exists because of Zelda. Not all shooters are "descendants of doom", only run and gun games are. Most shooters these days are descendants of Half-Life, and before you say "Half-Life is inspired by Doom", Half-Life is what it is because it stepped away from the run-and-gun shooters.

Except Gabe Newell is on record that witnessing Doom is what made it want to start making games. Just like Epic is on record as switching from Jazz Jack Rabbit to making a game that wanted to be a Doom killer than a Quake killer. Shooters don't have to be direct clones in order to be descendants. You seem to really strugle with the simple concept that Doom created the fps blueprint. Everything that every other FPS has done, similar or different, only ever existed because of Doom and what it set in motion.

You continue to make my points for me but believe you're saying something different. Yes, Half Life is a game that wanted to be different than Doom and its clones. Which was something that never would have existed, if not for Doom and Valve wanting to do something different. There would have been no Valve and no desire to do something different if not for Doom. You're saying the same things i am

Call of Duty, Battlefield, these games are not shooters like Doom. Quake, Unreal, Blood, Hexen etc..., that are the games you can claim as Doom descendants, not everything within the genre. Most shooters nowadays follow completely different design philosophies. They don't follow any Doom blueprint.

PC storefronts would still exist today without Doom, and so would game engines, they are not born purely of Doom. Sweeny would still make an engine.

Yes, COD, Battlefield are not like Doom. But they exist because Doom gave the start. The shooters that exist today who dont follow Doom's DNA, mostly follow the DNA of Half Life. Which exists thanks to Doom. No matter how we want to twist the history, Doom is the singular point from where all the others came. Without Doom, there would have been no desire to make a story driven FPS like HL. No desire to make an ultra scripted FPS like MOH Allied Assault which takes its cues directly from Half Life. Without Allied Assault, the same team would not have made Call of Duty.

The lineage is Doom - Quake - Half Life, to simplify things a bit. Even if you think a game now is wildly different, you will trace this back to these three.

How do you know that PC storefronts would have existed ? You keep claiming that everything credited to Doom would have magically existed. How do you know ? You ignore the hard history facts by saying everything would have existed anyway. Besides the fact that its your own invention, how do you know ? Why didnt the FPS genre exist if there were first person games for 20 years ? Steam seemed like the biggest piece of shit conceptually at the time. Valve basically went ALONE in the industry against the grain. Things just happened to evolve over many, many years, more than a decade, as they did. That something like Steam would have existed without Valve is absolutely not true.

I can't even fathom that you just said Doom is more important than Nintendo. That is the most absurd fanboy nonsense ever uttered on this forum. You think the NES, SNES, Gameboy, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii-U, Switch, Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, 35 years of gaming innovation is less important than fucking Doom?

"You are not playing Mario and 2D platformers today"? what? Mario has been a massive brand for 35 years. Yes, I am playing Mario and a massive amount of platformers, just like millions and millions of others are.

You think a library of sidescroolers hostage to a singular platform is more important than a world wide genre that affected every platform in the world, affected the technology itself with which games are made for every platform and the biggest computer store in the world ? I dont blame you for felating nintendo as you do, especially on gaf and reeera, these forums are hilariously console focused, unlike any other comunity. People still think nintendo is responsible for gaming because there was a console crash in america and they still think Mario 64 was a "moment" and 3d games were created then.

What are the games coming out today ? RPG's, shooters, strategy games, adventure games, sim games, mobas, mmos, stealth games, battle royales, deathmatch, online playing and so on. Im sure you know which platform created every one of this genre that dominates the gaming landscape for 30 years. Hint: not nintendo, not a console of any kind
 
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Sp3eD

0G M3mbeR
After coming off playing Blake stone and wolf 3d, Doom was a revolution. The game itself was absolute craziness and was also the game that made me beg my dad to get me a sound blaster card put into our Gateway 386.

Imagine playing it with sound like this. Also no music at all


Early mods were also amazing to me. I remember my cousins getting basic mods off of local BBS’ like early gore mods and for some reason my favorite was a beavis and butthead sound packs for item pickups and enemy deaths. Blew my mind at the time. I’d get almost weekly drops of 3.5” disks with sound packs and sometimes new maps. Nostalgia overload here.
 

Bragr

Member
You're aguing against some nonsensical point of view that cant be proven. Which several gaming genres existed for 20 years without meaning anything ? Your argument is that the actual genesis of a genre is not really important because it would have been made anyway. And then your try to prove this point by saying that the viewpoint was used for 20 years without the fps genre existing. Your arguing against hard facts with supositions that have no anchor in reality.



Except Gabe Newell is on record that witnessing Doom is what made it want to start making games. Just like Epic is on record as switching from Jazz Jack Rabbit to making a game that wanted to be a Doom killer than a Quake killer. Shooters don't have to be direct clones in order to be descendants. You seem to really strugle with the simple concept that Doom created the fps blueprint. Everything that every other FPS has done, similar or different, only ever existed because of Doom and what it set in motion.

You continue to make my points for me but believe you're saying something different. Yes, Half Life is a game that wanted to be different than Doom and its clones. Which was something that never would have existed, if not for Doom and Valve wanting to do something different. There would have been no Valve and no desire to do something different if not for Doom. You're saying the same things i am



Yes, COD, Battlefield are not like Doom. But they exist because Doom gave the start. The shooters that exist today who dont follow Doom's DNA, mostly follow the DNA of Half Life. Which exists thanks to Doom. No matter how we want to twist the history, Doom is the singular point from where all the others came. Without Doom, there would have been no desire to make a story driven FPS like HL. No desire to make an ultra scripted FPS like MOH Allied Assault which takes its cues directly from Half Life. Without Allied Assault, the same team would not have made Call of Duty.

The lineage is Doom - Quake - Half Life, to simplify things a bit. Even if you think a game now is wildly different, you will trace this back to these three.

How do you know that PC storefronts would have existed ? You keep claiming that everything credited to Doom would have magically existed. How do you know ? You ignore the hard history facts by saying everything would have existed anyway. Besides the fact that its your own invention, how do you know ? Why didnt the FPS genre exist if there were first person games for 20 years ? Steam seemed like the biggest piece of shit conceptually at the time. Valve basically went ALONE in the industry against the grain. Things just happened to evolve over many, many years, more than a decade, as they did. That something like Steam would have existed without Valve is absolutely not true.



You think a library of sidescroolers hostage to a singular platform is more important than a world wide genre that affected every platform in the world, affected the technology itself with which games are made for every platform and the biggest computer store in the world ? I dont blame you for felating nintendo as you do, especially on gaf and reeera, these forums are hilariously console focused, unlike any other comunity. People still think nintendo is responsible for gaming because there was a console crash in america and they still think Mario 64 was a "moment" and 3d games were created then.

What are the games coming out today ? RPG's, shooters, strategy games, adventure games, sim games, mobas, mmos, stealth games, battle royales, deathmatch, online playing and so on. Im sure you know which platform created every one of this genre that dominates the gaming landscape for 30 years. Hint: not nintendo, not a console of any kind
Dude, your entire argument is nonsensical, that's why I used your very words. You are the one who said that FPS existed without much meaning. But it did, it was successful before Doom, you can't say it was successful only when Doom came around when Wolfenstein and Battlezone were popular before it. You are arguing against your own point. You are the one who's arguing that the genesis of FPS was not important. The genesis was not Doom.

Don't you get it, if Half-Life didn't exist because of Doom, then would iD exists without Keen? when you use this logic, then Elden Ring and Assassins Creed and every game with jumping are popular because of Donkey Kong. This is a nonsensical argument, you can't assume every shooter is there because of Doom, because shooters were already there before Doom, and would be there without Doom. The trajectory would be different, but this was already a known and emerging genre. And even if it wasn't, that doesn't mean Doom is the root cause of all shooters. By that logic, every game would be the root cause of some ancient predecessor, which is nonsense.

Most of the shooters after Half-Life are inspired by Half-Life, not Doom. Do you also think every car game is a direct descendant of Space Race? if so, Doom is a direct descendant of Maze Wars.

You don't think developers would have the urge to make shooters without Doom? would no developers want to use rumble if not for Star Fox 64?

You somehow think that because Gabe liked Doom, Doom is then the root cause of the entire PC storefront industry. And that since Sweeny designed an engine in competition with iD, that Doom is the cause of Epic and that Doom created Epic and everything to do with the Unreal engine today? give me a break. That is complete madness, by that logic, the first few popular games should be the benefactor of everything, including Doom. Doom would be nothing with Wolfenstein.

A library of side-scrollers? you don't play console games, do you? only play Warzone? Consoles are bigger than PC. Console destroyed PC for decades until very recently. Mobile games are a lot bigger than both. Most of the genres you mention have massive player bases on consoles.
 

Dr.Morris79

Member
Finding out my GPD XD+ could play Brutal Doom was the best day i've had in years.

Finding out what the did to Doom Eternal and having them turn into into a shit Quake mod was the worst day i've had in years.
 

Orta

console wars 2020 - participant
As good a thread as anywhere to ask, does anybody know if/where there is a working wad file that will add the PSX flaming skies to Doom/GZDoom?


 

The_Mike

Member
I just went through them all lately.

Did Doom Eternal when I got game pass, and after that I got taste for the classic ones.

Completed Doom 1993, super classic. Loved it.

Completed Doom II. Fuck Doom II, it is straight up piece of trash I hated 3/4 of the maps in that game.

Doom III is what I am going through atm. Great game, just very slow paced compared to the other ones.

Doom 64, meh. I heard all the hype about it and it was just so dissappointing. Boring map design, also very slow paced.
I guess you must have played it back at the release to appreciate it because of nostalgia.

Doom 2016 was also a masterpiece. Felt like Doom 1993.

Doom Eternal was meh at best. I really enjoyed the combat in the game, I hated the puzzles and jump sequences a lot.
 

Futaleufu

Member
Doom 2 haters, are you playing the game in Ultra-Violence without save scumming?

The enemy placement in Doom 2 is the level design
 

MacReady13

Member
Easily one of the greatest games of all time and a masterclass in level design. Part 2 is brilliant as well and do not sleep on Doom 64- a brilliant game as well and worthy of the Doom name.
 

Orta

console wars 2020 - participant
Playing the way id did wad at the moment.

Insane level design so far!
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
  • People only playing Brutal Doom (There are more mods than BD!)
  • When people go naughty, only recommending HDoom (Never heard of Impse?)
  • Calling Doom II a piece of trash (It has the super shotty which instantly nullifies that argument)
Read the Wiki, folks.

Also AMA when it comes to Doom (I write for said Wiki)
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
OP what difficulty did you play on? As an FYI the vast majority of wads have the game set by default to Ultra Violence which is the generally agreed best difficulty. This was your first playthrough so so no biggie if you played on Hurt Me Plenty.

Good enemy variety, each one with its own unique quirks requiring slightly different approaches and weapons to defeat.

This right here is the real strength of Doom in my opinion. You can put those enemies in any number of combinations and they make for dynamic, interesting scenarios. The Spider Mastermind is maybe the only poorly designed enemy that doesn't gel with the others; she is more of just a novelty as the final boss.
 
OP might want to check this out once he finds the BFG. It's jank as fuck but pretty useful if you know how it works.


tl;dw? Basically you'd thought the ball explodes and that's it. Instead, when the ball explodes, lots of tracers come out of the gun.

Doom 2 haters, are you playing the game in Ultra-Violence without save scumming?

The enemy placement in Doom 2 is the level design
DOOM's II SSG and new enemies are great, specially for the wad scene. The level design is mostly shit tho, and imo it takes away a lot from the game.
 

Saber

Member
With mods I generally play this game on Ultra Violence with fast monsters protocol(something they would call Ultra Violence +).

Too bad the PS4 version is one of worst experiences I ever played and Bethesda should be ashamed of launching something so lazy and terrible as this. Don't know why they didn't gave the same treatment as Doom 64, which is pretty damn good.
 

Goalus

Member
Doom 2 haters, are you playing the game in Ultra-Violence without save scumming?

The enemy placement in Doom 2 is the level design
I recently completed Doom 2 in UV with a controller (Xbox). I can safely say that without save scumming I wouldn't have made it, especially the boss fight. I am actually proud to have made it at all using a controller.

I should be able to beat Doom 1 in UV though with just a few saves per episode (ok, except for Thy Flesh Consumed, that episode is a true nightmare).
 
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