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Dreamcast 22nd Anniversary |OT| Still Dreaming

kassj0peja

Neo Member
Man, 20 fuckin' years. I'd say it feels like yesterday, but.... it actually does feel like it's been 20 years. Which makes sense.

Anyway, Dreamcast was rad, and Soul Calibur was the best launch game, etc., etc. Also, Under Defeat and Border Down are on Dreamcast, and are two of the best shmups ever.

Border Down is the one game that I want to see ported to another system.
 

A.Romero

Member
I traded my PSX in to get a Dreamcast with Code Veronica. I had a lot of enjoyment on this platform. I played many hours of the included demo discs...

My favourite games back then: Code Veronica, Sould Calibur, Crazy Taxi, MVC2, Jet Set Radio, Shenmue... Great console.

Downloading save games from the Internet felt like the future. I algo got to play Quake 3 online with it and it was just such a novel concept.

It was also a kind of competent media player (considering what was available back then). With homebrew it was possible to play MP3 and even VCD's with it.

Still, PS2 was a Juggernaut. Couldn't resist games like GTA3 and MGS2...
 
My go to games:

Fire Pro Wrestling D
Phantasy Star Online (online monster killing!)
Unreal Tournament (online shooting!)
Speed Devils (online racing!)
Mark of the Wolves
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Border Down is the one game that I want to see ported to another system.

As I recall, the G.Rev guys said they weren't going to do it, because making it widescreen would fuck the gameplay up, and they wouldn't want to do a 4:3 presentation for a modern release.

But! Supposedly, Border Down 2 is on the way.
 

Komatsu

Member
Here's a quick comparison between two multiplat titles - our favorite anime waifu simulator Dead or Alive 2 and Ferrari F355 challenge. The images were captured straight from the console, courtesy of the great Brazilian minds of the VCDECIDE channel (all their comparisons are great, BTW). The PS2 looks muddier since it was outputting video in dirty interlaced composited, whereas the Dreamcast feed is on 480p through VGA.

DlagDLS.png


The PS2 ports usually handle geometry better - DOA2 for the PS2 has stages with bigger craters, better angular geography, etc. However, reflections, lighting and transparency (look at that Ferrari's windshield) looked amazing in the Dreamcast, thanks to the PowerVR2's Order-indepedent Transparency, which does not require the console to sort out rendering orders for any kind of alpha compositing. There are many ways of handling transparency here, some of which were documented in the dev docs for the Windos CE kit. Krejlooc, from ResetEra, also had an interesting post about the subject (I hope the mods don't mind the link - I'm not a RE user but gfx programming is my jam).
 
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Komatsu

Member
Here's another round of comparisons, folks!

This time we include comparisons with the OG Xbox and GameCube as well.

Images were extracted directly from the console - but not by me. They were taken from a myriad of sources (Youtube channels [Archade Games], The Cutting Room Floor, etc.).

Again, the DC fares pretty well in the transparency department. The PS2's advantage in geometry can be seen clearly in the image on the top right - notice how the steering wheel is rounder. However, the Dreamcasts overwhelming advantage in the alpha-mapping department shows when it comes to the NGC port of Sonic Adventure - all transparencies in the NGC port are awful and SEGA had to extensively retool a bunch of stuff.

Even the XBox - which was vastly more powerful than the DC - suffered a bit in that department. SEGA AM2 got rid of a bunch of chain fences, etc., in the Xbox port as they couldn't just "punch through" transparencies as they did in the DC, as Takeshi Hirai, Shenmue's Lead Programmer, said in a recent testimonial.

full-comparison-small.png
 
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Journey

Banned
It had THE best launch fighting game in 'Soul Calibur 1'







and also one of the most appealing system startup sound !





I had to watch that intro every time I played Soul Calibur, must've watched it 100 times, just gave me goosebumps listening to the music, I was so amazed at the time.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Happy birthday, DC! I remember the first time I played a DC in Toys "R" Us. It was Sonic Adventure and it was amazing. Our local Video rental store had 2 DC units for rental, so I picked up Sonic and Soul Calibur and holy fuck Soul Calibur just blew my mind. It was truly one of the greatest achievements in video game history. Side note I met the woman behind Xianghua, Sifu Tian Li. She's a real-life badass and one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

I remember using dial-up to play NFL and NBA 2K1 online. I never had the KB/M, but you could surf the net with their browser, too. Those were the days. We would buy a bag of chronic, hit up the Hostess Factory Outlet for $100 of outdated Twinkies and Ho-Ho's, and play Power Stone 2 for hours.
 
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RAIDEN1

Member
It does make me wonder though....when Sega must have surely have known there was literally no margin for error with the launch of the dreamcast everything had to be perfect like it was 1988...more so with Sony ruling the roost...and yet they had to throw in the towel sooner than they thought and see the Playstation yet again leave them for dead.....
 

kunonabi

Member
So I decided to renew my efforts to get online with pso and my computer has decided to get in my way. I should be able to get it going if I can reset my system memory but considering discjuggler doesnt want to recognize my damn disc drive that may not happen.

Anyway just waiting for the orkin guy to leave and I can start my dreamcast celebration.
 

frogger

Member
There are still brand new game release every year for the Dreamcast. I think last year, there were at least 5 new games. No other consoles had this much post era support than Dreamcast.
 

K1Expwy

Member
I remember that Thursday night popping in Soul Calibur, and going to the section where the models look right at you while speaking their voiced dialogue. I was just in disbelief, playing a video game with "living, breathing," detailed virtual characters. The loud fan and scratchy disc reading added to the impression of cutting edge hardware. Thankfully I still have my same Dreamcast that I bought 20 years ago today.
 

bronk

Banned
Haven't seen much Armada love. I still boot it up from time to time. Turn my brain off shoot some alien scum and level up my ship. Good times.
 

Komatsu

Member
Brazilian later models had a blue logo instead of the original orange.

Yes, I believe Tec Toy was simply importing PAL DCs into their territory and code switching. They never produced the Dreamcast in Brazil - same thing for games, they'd simply put US GD-ROMs in sleeves written in (hilariously obnoxious) Brazilian Portuguese. My favorite:

a28ad9d7eb86be00325f09f6b8ae36dc.jpg
 

Cravis

Member
I love the Dreamcast so much.

Picked mine up on launch day along with Soul Calibur. Me and my brother scavenged enough money in the next week to pick up House of the Dead 2 and Ready 2 Rumble Boxing.

I still have mine hooked up. I was going for a complete US collection but stopped around the 180 mark.

Recently got an SD card reader to replace my GD Rom drive.
 

Cravis

Member
Unfortunately they delayed delivery to late Dec/early Jan. I'm a bit frustrated as a backer.
It’ll be worth it in the end. I’d rather they take their time and do it right instead of releasing a sub par controller. I got their brawler64 controller and really liked it.
 

Romulus

Member
Dissenting opinion, I wasn't impressed by DC's visuals. I recognized the visuals were a lot more crisp and ran at a higher frame rate than N64/PS1, but I still disliked the chunky polygons and muddy textures. When I laid eyes on what the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox could do, it was over for Dreamcast.

The Xbox was an absolute monster for the time. All of them were good and it ended up being the best generation imo.
 

Kazza

Member
Again, the DC fares pretty well in the transparency department. The PS2's advantage in geometry can be seen clearly in the image on the top right - notice how the steering wheel is rounder. However, the Dreamcasts overwhelming advantage in the alpha-mapping department shows when it comes to the NGC port of Sonic Adventure - all transparencies in the NGC port are awful and SEGA had to extensively retool a bunch of stuff.

Even the XBox - which was vastly more powerful than the DC - suffered a bit in that department. SEGA AM2 got rid of a bunch of chain fences, etc., in the Xbox port as they couldn't just "punch through" transparencies as they did in the DC, as Takeshi Hirai, Shenmue's Lead Programmer, said in a recent testimonial.


A lot of what Sega did with the Dreamcast was a reaction to criticism they received of the Saturn. Transparencies was considered a weak area, as evidenced by the ugly mesh effect seen in many ports of PS1 games (although it's a myth that the Saturn couldn't do them at all), so this seems to be an area where the went all out with the Dreamcast.

Great comparison shots and technical details, btw!
 

Kazza

Member
I forgot that I did a thread on the 20th anniversary of the Japanese release last year. The lineup was pretty bad, but they did provide some hilarious ads:

 

Vlaphor

Member
Loved the hell out of my DC back in the day. Funny story, I had $100 or so in either Xmas money or Bday money, and I bought a used Dremcast with that. Shortly after that, the office price went down to $100. Still, I had so much fun with all of the various games on that system, way more fun than I had with the N64 at the time. Still, it feels weird for it to be 20 years old, ah well

Found another ad as well

knA2hvT.jpg
 

SpiceRacz

Member
I love the Dreamcast so much.

Picked mine up on launch day along with Soul Calibur. Me and my brother scavenged enough money in the next week to pick up House of the Dead 2 and Ready 2 Rumble Boxing.

I still have mine hooked up. I was going for a complete US collection but stopped around the 180 mark.

Recently got an SD card reader to replace my GD Rom drive.

I've heard of the GD rom drive, but had no idea there was an SD card reader. Ordering one of them shits right away.
 

Komatsu

Member
A lot of what Sega did with the Dreamcast was a reaction to criticism they received of the Saturn. Transparencies was considered a weak area, as evidenced by the ugly mesh effect seen in many ports of PS1 games (although it's a myth that the Saturn couldn't do them at all), so this seems to be an area where the went all out with the Dreamcast.

Great comparison shots and technical details, btw!

Absolutely - especially SEGA's focus on ease-of-development. The Saturn's dual CPU setup made it hard enough, but the fact there were no standard dev tools and that internal studios such as Sonic Team would refuse to share their devtools with other teams made the whole thing a mess. That being said, I don't think using meshes-as-transparent layers as the Saturn did was that bad a solution in the mid 1990s. The CRTS would blur the pixel-meshes into one color blob anyway! lol

That said, adding support for the DirectX toolkit was a really a stroke of genius - too bad the console didn't live long enough for third parties to make full use of it.
 

spookyfish

Member
I had it reserved for launch at Software Etc. when that still was a thing in the States. I preordered the console, an extra controller, two VMUs, two of the arcade sticks, and Sonic, MK 4 Gold and Soul Calibur. I quickly picked up a lot of other stuff.

Loved the “arcade” feel of the games. HotD 2 was pixel perfect, Crazy Taxi was crazy fun, and the graphics were drop dead gorgeous.

Still one of my favorite systems of all time.
 
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Kazza

Member
Absolutely - especially SEGA's focus on ease-of-development. The Saturn's dual CPU setup made it hard enough, but the fact there were no standard dev tools and that internal studios such as Sonic Team would refuse to share their devtools with other teams made the whole thing a mess. That being said, I don't think using meshes-as-transparent layers as the Saturn did was that bad a solution in the mid 1990s. The CRTS would blur the pixel-meshes into one color blob anyway! lol

That said, adding support for the DirectX toolkit was a really a stroke of genius - too bad the console didn't live long enough for third parties to make full use of it.

It's weird how quickly Sega went from being so third-party friendly during the Megadrive era to Nintendo like arrogance during the Saturn era. I heard Sonic team wouldn't even share their tools with other Sega teams, let alone third parties.

You're right about the mesh effect looking better on the CRTs, but even magazines of the time would compare it unfavourably to the Playstation's transparencies.
 

Kazza

Member
On the Japanese launch thread I made a list of games which would liekly have been released if the Dreamcast had lived for two or three more years (I focused mainly on first party software. I think it's worth re-posting an updated here and to wonder what could have been):

2001

Super Monkey Ball
The Lost World: Jurrasic Park
Half Life

2002

Super Monkey Ball 2
Virtua Fighter 4
Gunvalkyrie
Sega Soccer Slam
Virtua Striker 3
Jet Set Radio Future
Sega GT 2002
Shinobi
Crazy Taxi 3
Guilty Gear XX
Toejam and Earl 3
Otogi
Beach Spikers: Virtua Beach Volleyball
NBA 2K3
NHL2K3
NFL 2K3
GTA3

2003

Billy Hatcher
House of the Dead 3
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution
Nightshade (Shinobi 2)
Otogi 2
Shenmue 3
Space Channel 5: Part 2
Aero Elite@ Combat Academy
Cyber Troopers Virtual-On Marz
Ecco The Dolphin 2: Sentinels of the Universe (a game which was cancelled completely, rather than having development shifted to another platform)

2004

Outrun 2
Virtua Cop 3
Sonic Heroes
Spikeout: Battle Street
Spartan: Total Warrior
 
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Komatsu

Member
It's weird how quickly Sega went from being so third-party friendly during the Megadrive era to Nintendo like arrogance during the Saturn era. I heard Sonic team wouldn't even share their tools with other Sega teams, let alone third parties.

Yep, there was that famous incident in which Yuji Naka prevented the Sega Technical Institute team working on X-Treme from having access to the NiGHTs engine.

Truth be told, SOJ's forte was hardware/software design - SOA's business team under both Kalinske and Moore was considerably better than the Japan execs who often had absolutely harebrained strategies and were completely, utterly out of their depth in navigating the American market. Nakayama, in particular, seemed intent on undercutting the only executive who manager to overtake Nintendo in the territory he was overseeing: Tom Kalinske.

This was not limited to the US market. Stefan Arnold, the CEO of Tec Toy, SEGA's partner in Brazil and in South America, mentioned in a couple of interviews that he sometimes butted heads with the SOJ bigwigs, that it took a lot of time to bring them around. He never says it in so many words, but one gets the impression that even though he sold eight times (!!!) as many Master Systems as SEGA of Japan, they still treated him like an imbecile.

The Dreamcast came around when Nakayama was on its way out. Irimajiri, his successor, spoke English fluently and had spent years in the auto industry (he was president of Honda of America!) where he got to know cities like Detroit and Columbus like the back of his hand. 9.9.99 would never have been possible under Nakayama, who really didn't like US execs all that much. Which is funny, since he was hired by David Rosen at a time when SEGA was still a GI outfit in postwar Japan.
 

Kazza

Member
Speaking of new games, the Dreamcast really is still dreaming! Here is a video detailing the 10 new games released for the system over the past 12 months. Although most just seem to be ports of existing games, it's still cool that games are still coming out:

 

Komatsu

Member


Here's Yuji Naka - who now works at Square Enix - saying that while he took his kid to bike around Tokyo, he saw the old SEGA Enterprises building slated for demolition. His twitter feed has been surprisingly bittersweet these last few days with the anniversary and all that jazz.
 
peter moore deserves better than EA. they dont even listen to him.
edit: looks like he resigned 2 years ago lmao didnt know that.

He is CEO of Liverpool FC now.

History repeats itself for him, on the losing Team despite making the best of a situation.

Hoping this TGS brings us SEGA AGES Dreamcast games such as Cosmic Smash, REZ and possibly a few other games with HD Rumble Support.
 
Not playing Phantasy Star Online has to be one of my biggest gaming regrets. I played a metric fuckton of Dreamcast games, but for some stupid reason never even tried it. I had this impression it was some game genre I wouldn't like, which is all the more painful in retrospect because it was apparently anime Diablo, and considering I put hundreds of hours into Diablo 1 and 2...........
 

MetalSlug

Member
Man there's this scene from an older movie called "Josie and the Pussycats" at the end of the film they are near this GIANT wall of dreamcast stuff, it looks so cool and fills me with nostalgia... I'll see if I can find some screenshots.

EDIT: HERE
DRv7Kt1.jpg



XgtqkTi.jpg

It'd be good if we could find lots of content like this and show it here.
 

The Snake

Member
On the Japanese launch thread I made a list of games which would liekly have been released if the Dreamcast had lived for two or three more years (I focused mainly on first party software. I think it's worth re-posting an updated here and to wonder what could have been):

2001

Super Monkey Ball
The Lost World: Jurrasic Park
Half Life

2002

Super Monkey Ball 2
Virtua Fighter 4
Gunvalkyrie
Sega Soccer Slam
Virtua Striker 3
Jet Set Radio Future
Sega GT 2002
Shinobi
Crazy Taxi 3
Guilty Gear XX
Toejam and Earl 3
Otogi
Beach Spikers: Virtua Beach Volleyball
NBA 2K3
NHL2K3
NFL 2K3
GTA3

2003

Billy Hatcher
House of the Dead 3
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution
Nightshade (Shinobi 2)
Otogi 2
Shenmue 3
Space Channel 5: Part 2
Aero Elite@ Combat Academy
Cyber Troopers Virtual-On Marz
Ecco The Dolphin 2: Sentinels of the Universe (a game which was cancelled completely, rather than having development shifted to another platform)

2004

Outrun 2
Virtua Cop 3
Sonic Heroes
Spikeout: Battle Street
Spartan: Total Warrior

Totally agree. Though I should note that Space Channel 5 Part 2 DID come out on Dreamcast.

There are a lot of really great games on later consoles that you play and just think "man this feels like a Dreamcast game." I always thought that in a perfect timeline, Deadly Premonition would have been a Dreamcast game.
 

Kazza

Member
Totally agree. Though I should note that Space Channel 5 Part 2 DID come out on Dreamcast.

There are a lot of really great games on later consoles that you play and just think "man this feels like a Dreamcast game." I always thought that in a perfect timeline, Deadly Premonition would have been a Dreamcast game.

Right. Lots of people playing Sega games on the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube were getting "Dreamcast experiences" whether they realised it or not.
 

Komatsu

Member
Right. Lots of people playing Sega games on the PS2, Xbox and Gamecube were getting "Dreamcast experiences" whether they realised it or not.

That Dreamcast feeling persisted up until the moment SEGA reconsolidated and brought their dev teams back into Corporate, which happened in 2004.
 

kunonabi

Member
Whew, I ended up playing 20 games for 20 years. I decided to mix in some obscure stuff with the usual suspects.

I played:

Sonic Adventure
Jet Set Radio
Space Channel 5
Shenmue
Crazy Taxi
Virtua Fighter 3tb
NFL 2K2
Blue Stinger
Capcom vs SNK
Hundred Swords
Vermillion Desert
Tokyo Bus Guide
Tricolore Crise
Dream studio
Giant Gram 2000
Roommania #203
Mobile Suit Gundam EFF vs. Zeon & DX
The House of the Dead 2
Power Stone
Metropolis Street Racer

Some of these I played for the first time and I was pleasantly surprised by just about all of them. Sadly, I'm still terrible at Space Channel 5 though. I spent the most time with Blue Stinger since I was in the middle of a playthrough anyway.

And the biggest news of the day was I finally got PSO working online! Didn't get to really play it yet but I'm stoked nonetheless.

Now for my pics and my game list.

US games:



Blue Stinger
Bomberman Online
Cannon Spike
Carrier
ChuChu Rocket
Crazy Taxi
D2
Daytona USA
Death Crimson OX
Dino Crisis
Dragon Riders: Chronicles of Pern
Dynamite Cop
Elemental Gimmick Gear
Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves
Gundam Side Story 0079
Grandia II
Heavy Metal Geomatrix
The House of the Dead 2
Illbleed
Industrial Spy: Operation Espionage
Jet Grind Radio
The King of Fighters Dream Match 99
The King of Fighters Evolution
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Marvel vs Capcom 2
Metropolis Street Racer
NFL 2k1
NFL 2k2
Omikron: The Nomad Soul
Ooga Booga
Phantasy Star Online
Phantasy Star Online ver. 2
Plasma Sword
Power Stone 2
Psychic Force 2012
Rayman 2
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis
The Ring: Terror's Realm
Seaman
Sega Rally 2
Seventh Cross Evolution
Shadow Man
Shenmue
Skies of Arcadia
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
SoulCalibur
Space Channel 5
Starlancer
Star Wars Episode 1 Jedi Power Battles
Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage
Tech Romancer
Tennis 2k2
Time Stalkers
Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2
Tomb Raider: Chronicles
Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Toy Commander
The Typing of the Dead
UFC: Ultimate Fighting Championship
Virtua Fighter 3tb
Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram
Wetrix+
WWF Royal Rumble
Zombie Revenge

Japanese games:



Black Matrix Advanced
CAPCOM vs SNK Millenium Fight 2000
Confidential Mission
Cool Cool Toon
Cosmic Smash
Dead of Alive 2 Limited Edition
Death Crimson 2
DeSPIRIA
Dreamstudio
El Dorado Gate Vol. 1
El Dorado Gate Vol. 2
El Dorado Gate Vol. 3
El Dorado Gate Vol. 4
El Dorado Gate Vol. 5
El Dorado Gate Vol. 6
El Dorado Gate Vol. 7
Frame Gride
Giant Gram 2000 All Japan Pro Wrestling 3
Giant Gram All Japan Pro Wrestling 2
The House of the Dead 2
Hundred Swords
Interlude
Jet Set Radio
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
July
Konohana 2
Konohana True Report
Macross M3
Maken X
Marionette Company
Marionette Company 2
Metal Wolf
Missing Parts: The Tantei Stories
Missing Parts 2: The Tantei Stories
Missing Parts 3: The Tantei Stories
Mobile Suit Gundam EFF vs. Zeon & DX
Mobile Suit Gundam Gihren's Greed - Blood of Zeon
Moero! Justice Gakuen
Nanatsu no Hikan
Napple Tale: Arsia in Daydream
Puyo Puyo 4
Rent-a-Hero No.1
Revive...Sosei
ROOMMANIA #203
Rune Jade
Sakura Wars
Sakura Wars 2
Sakura Wars 3
Sakura Wars 4
Segagaga LE
Sengoku Turb
Space Channel 5 part 2 LE
Spawn: In the Demon's Hand
Super Producers
Super Robot Wars Alpha
Tako no Marine
Tokyo Bus Guide
Treasure Strike
Tricolor Crise
UnderCover A.D. 2025kei
Vermilion Desert

PAL games:

Headhunter
Shenmue II




My PAL games and the birthday boy.

Controllers, etc. I should have another keyboard but I'm not sure where it is at the moment.



My special editions and other misc. stuff


I'm obviously missing some peripherals and there are still a decent amount of games I have my eye on but that's what the next 20 years are for.

I wish I could have posted yesterday but the time just wasn't there.

I'll probably post my top 20 games a bit later too.
 
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