Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Praise Bill Clinton!
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Elden Ring becomes the most awarded GOTY game in history, surpassinhg TLOU 2
TropicanaTwista
Member
I would always do that. Have only put stats in vitality, stamina, strength, and dexterity. The combat isn't really my issue. Although I do find it kind of odd how people complain about some games being "samey", like GoW R compared to GoW 2018. Then praise ER when it's literally DS4 gameplay. Again, not too much of a complaint as the combat is great but still odd to me.
The problem is the game forces you to explore and it's just not fun to me at all. First, the game drops a boss in at the very beginning (not tutorial section) where you have no chance. Then after the first main area, you get to a locked gate/seal in the second region, in which you need to explore for the key.
If the game was linear, I would enjoy it much more and be able to get through it. Just can't with how it's set up. Feels like it doesn't respect my time.
DeaconOfTheDank
Gold Member
Unless you want to lock yourself out of all magic + incantations + dragon abilities and focus only on melee builds then I would recommend throwing some points into Intelligence, Faith, or Arcane. Dexterity is great for getting to use some of the more unique weapons, but you'll rarely need a large number of points in both Strength + Dexterity. It's a bit counterproductive after a certain point.
I also don't mind GoW Ragnarok. I don't think it's quite as good as the first game in terms of writing, but gameplay is improved in practically every way. I'm not one to bash a good sequel
In Elden Ring's case it's more of a culmination of everything that FromSoftware has been working towards for the last decade. Fans are happy that almost everything they love about the previous games are wrapped up in one, beautiful, gigantic package. Call it a sequel, sure, but it's more like the final product of a decade long development process.
Ah, yeah that's a FromSoftware trope. There's a secret set of daggers you can get if you manage to defeat it. As for looking for a key, if you go straight to the gates of the academy you'll find a map with a very clearly marked "X" for location of the key. The challenge is scanning the surrounding the geography to find where the map is referencing.
The whole point is to explore. It sounds like open worlds aren't your cup of tea then. Not much I can do with that.
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TropicanaTwista
Member
Yea not really interested in the magic stuff. The amount of hours I spent in souls games and I've never once cared to even try them. Can just tell I wouldn't enjoy it as much as the melee combat.
Yea other from games have situations like that. Just found it more annoying when the map is so large in this game.
Why I dislike it so much lol. I do enjoy open world games too. Hell, Horizon zero dawn was probably my favorite game last gen. Either that or Bloodborne. I know it's blasphemy here on gaf, I just think Er does open world badly.
sainraja
Member
In GOW's case, it has adopted somewhat of an open-world pattern but it's not really open world game, so knowing where to go next isn't something that I would consider "spoiling" anything. You can take different pathways in certain cases but navigating the land isn't a puzzle that you or your companions need to solve for you. As for the characters giving you the solution to a puzzle, well, that mostly has to do with anything that has to do with the story and one thing they [games like GOW] try to do, is show that your companions can help you, are dealing with the same situation as you are (but yes, they should allow people to completely turn that off), BUT in GOW's case, your companions, don't solve the chest puzzles for you that are not tied to the story so unless I was just really fast at figuring things out, I didn't have them tell me how to solve those, I kinda had to do that on my own.
Other games utilize different systems to do the same, or combinations of different help systems (High on Life's scanning system placing a marker towards your goal), Arkham game's detective mode, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time's save system that allowed you to see the future (<<< best implementation), so having the characters be that for you isn't a negative I would say....it is just a different way they did the same. I would like to see them place a prompt over the character's head or like the first Uncharted 1 did (play a sound with a prompt on screen) that the player gets to initiate if they can't figure it out at all.
Horizon Zero Dawn was being received well but got overshadowed by BOTW. What you seem to want is every game to adopt the thing that is special to you right now because its different. Imagine 100's of games like that, then it will become more of the same.
Ah, gotcha.
I am not sure if I have. I am glad every game has a different thing to offer us over every game being open world with BOTW's formula. I like Zelda for that, but I don't want every game there is to become it. Although, I would not mind a separate option in these linear games where you are given a walk anywhere to fight option using the game's combat system (kinda like the Mercenary modes in RE games) but I wouldn't trade what we get with linear games (a more focused gaming experience) over it. Variety is good.
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Rea
Member
Both games are overrated. Platted the Elden ring, really hate the open world dark souls formula, some areas and some bosses. Personally Bloodborne and Sekiro is the masterpieces of Fromsoftware.
Played halfway through the TLOU2 then watch the rest of the stories from youtube. I couldn't finish that game.
Played halfway through the TLOU2 then watch the rest of the stories from youtube. I couldn't finish that game.
anothertech
Member
My brothers and I just posted our reviews on Twitter. Tlou2 is now at 325
Fredrik
Member
Calling it a revolution might be an exaggeration but the ”putting it in a more open environment” is the thing people like, if you listened to John then that’s what he’s talking about and that’s what I talked about too. It’s actually what some diehard Souls fans don’t like about it as well.
To break it down I’d say it’s Souls x The Elder Scrolls x Zelda BOTW.
Or, the game nobody dare to say they’re inspired by - Zelda 2. Open map traversal freedom, defence-focused combat, no hand-holding, get points used for upgrading from enemies and lose the points at death.
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
My twitter has 600 followers. That's another one for ER.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think as a complete game both these original games are better than the sequel. I look at the package the game offers and for me they are both better.
Not at all, but I appreciate your opinion. Introducing more characters doesn't just make something better if the writing doesn't hold up. I would rather take fleshed out characters over just adding more and using cheap tactics like this ones pregnant so you gotta feel for her. The writing in ragnarok and lou2 is no where near the quality of the original. The systems in lou 2 are great, I agree but that doesn't cover horrible pacing and a game that feels like it needs a good 5 to 8 hours shaving off it. Characters that die and just vanish from everyone's minds with no remorse.
The list goes on with the flaws of these sequels but i acfually dont care about them enough to spew out everything thats already been said a million times.
You are completely right, and I take that on board. Everyone has the right to feel what they want. Just like I feel like these sequels are a bit of a mess compared to their original games I accept that others may like them. Of course they are wrong haha in my opinion but I am wrong in theirs and that's fine.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
FunkMiller
Gold Member
What a weird comparison. A movie from the 60s, where advertising was extremely limited… and a modern video game with an advertising budget of multi millions, and multiple adverts. Nothing about Psycho’s advertising suggests that something happens in the movie when it doesn’t. TLOU2’s advertising is full of deception.
And given the recent ruling about false advertising in movie trailers, it probably wouldn’t get done today.
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DragonNCM
Member
xpresstuning
Member
Damn right we care !!!
There will be DLC & Elden ring 2 after this !!!
Can't wait. Don't know about any potential sequel, but based on their history with DLC releases, i'm hyped for whatever content they complement the main game with.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its exactly, exactly, the same principle.
There's no way that Druckmann, who's clearly very cine-literate didn't have the similarity in mind.
Killing your "star" off in the first 30 minutes is a risky move, as its about as brutal a rug-pull you can inflict on your audience, so its natural you'd want to maximize the impact by not tipping them off in advance.
The whole "false advertising" thing is, in my opinion, pretty fucking pitiful. Its so infantile.
Its not protecting anyone, its demanding to have your tiny hand held so you aren't "disappointed"! And people complain about modern entertainment being formulaic and lacking in surprise...
FunkMiller
Gold Member
There's nothing wrong with killing off your main character in the first thirty minutes, but I do think there's something wrong with actively telling your consumer base that it's something that isn't going to happen. Now, you might be okay with that level of deception, but many aren't. They didn't need to go that far. Just don't show Joel in the promotional material. But then of course, they knew how divisive the death would be, so they deliberately lied about it happening, because they knew that if people suspected he was going to be killed off, some of them wouldn't have bought the game. They didn't do it for any reason based around the story, it was purely a decision cynically based on their bottom line.
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
To be honest, I didn't think that this would ever happen.
The Last of Us Part II won alot of awards, and even awards that's normally not given out.
I don't know if it was actually a joke or not, but didn't TLOU2 win some LGBT transgender awards?
The Last of Us Part II won alot of awards, and even awards that's normally not given out.
I don't know if it was actually a joke or not, but didn't TLOU2 win some LGBT transgender awards?
dr_octagon
Banned
It wasn't just killing off Joel. It was doing it in a manner which was stupid and set out to provoke a fan reaction.
Not letting you get revenge or have an option to play as or alongside Joel would not remove the decision of killing a main character.
Druckman thinking he is some sort of auteur when it is lazy writing. Having the lead character killed straight away, without any thought behind it - the same character who brought you success and drove the entire story of the previous game? It is Aliens 3 level of stupidity.
Not letting you get revenge or have an option to play as or alongside Joel would not remove the decision of killing a main character.
Druckman thinking he is some sort of auteur when it is lazy writing. Having the lead character killed straight away, without any thought behind it - the same character who brought you success and drove the entire story of the previous game? It is Aliens 3 level of stupidity.
chixdiggit
Member
Elden Ring is the first From Software game to actually click with me. I tried a couple others but just couldn't seem to get going enough before frustration sank in.
Now that I understand them better I am excited to go back and try the previous games again.
Now that I understand them better I am excited to go back and try the previous games again.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
So, everyone gets to have the twist revealed because some emotional infants are overly attached to a fictional character, or a certain celebrity, or whatever?
Again, that's pathetic.
I'm so sick and tired of being dictated to by the fragile and weak minded. Fucking safetyism man... take responsibility for your own shit.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Stop ignoring what I’m saying, because you’re so entrenched in an argument no one is having with you. And calm the hell down, as well.
This has nothing to do with the actual twist in the story, but the fact Naughty Dog actively promoted that the twist does not happen, because they were worried about their profit margins.
If you take a step back from whatever crusade it is you appear to be on, you’ll see that this kind of activity should not be condoned or encouraged. Because ultimately, it is false advertising, that seeks to deceive the consumer while they are considering whether to buy the product or not. The fact it’s related to a story twist is completely immaterial.
I thought Joel’s death was very much in keeping with the story being told, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have an issue with them explicitly deceiving the consumer base - some of whom probably wouldn’t have bought the game if they‘d had an inkling that Joel might be dead throughout.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
No. It was a simple misdirection. Joel was in the story, just not as a playable character.
Abby being the protagonist for half the game was also downplayed in the marketing for exactly the same reason.
Wanting to surprise, even shock your audience isn't a conspiracy or some ploy for profit maximization; its simple dramaturgy and showmanship.
If all they cared about was money they'd have gone in a completely different direction creatively.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
They didn't shock or surprise... they straight up lied.
And they lied because they knew a lot of people wouldn't have bought the game if they'd suspected Joel was dead throughout. It's the cynicism of it that's the problem, and I'll be glad if the legal decision around Yesterday and Anna De Armas means that this type of thing isn't allowed to go on anymore.
There's a vast difference between not giving your narrative's plot twists away (which is fine) and stating that a plot twist doesn't exist, because they're scared you might not buy their product, if you think otherwise.
Your argument is essentially 'I'm fine if I'm actively deceived about a product before I purchase it'.
That's not something I can get on board with, for what should be obvious reasons.
EDIT: apologies everyone else for this hideous derailment.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
No politics.
No my argument is that I'm an adult, and would very much like other people to act like adults.
Unfortunately because of the ever encroaching culture of safetyism*, that's looking like an increasingly vain hope.
Your fee-fee's are evidently more important than the rights of creatives to present their art in the way the see most fit, and for the intended adult audience to be actually surprised by a piece of entertainment.
I hold your argument to be worthy of nothing but contempt.
*The demand for state/legislative intervention to prevent "harm".
Madflavor
Member
Games like Horizon and God of War need to have an option to turn off "hints" for puzzles and what not. I'm not the only one who recently complained about GoW:R's npcs give you all of 15-20 seconds before telling you how to solve a puzzle. I saw that critique everywhere. It's not an unreasonable request. There's a reason why Elden Ring gave players a sense of fulfillment and achievement when they discovered it's worlds secrets.
I want to see more games follow BOTW and Elden Ring's approach to Open World design, and exploration. I don't want all games to copy exactly what Elden Ring did. That'd be stupid. The "Ubisoft Approach" to Open World design is too common imo, and I want to see the scales start to tip the other way. There's a stark difference between discovering 5 small caves to collect the 5 pieces of some armor by following markers to the caves on your map, and just wandering the land and happening upon a well that goes to a vast underground city. The latter imo just gives a far more intense and satisfying sense of fulfillment and excitement.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Oh my god, you've turned a discussion about a video game company lying in their advertising, into something about state intervention politics.
You're mad.
Also.., no politics!
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
They hinted at Joel’s death in literally the very first reveal trailer. We all knew it was coming. People guessed it right the moment they saw this
Like, the trailer screams, JOEL IS A GHOST.
Them putting him in the launch trailer was MEANT to throw us off. And it worked.
It’s about trying to shock and surprise the audience. And it worked. Not about profit maximization. If it was that, Joel would have been the main character again. Think straight for a second.
It’s a shame it leaked. Because the reception would have been much different.
Edit: and here we go proving my point again, Joel’s death is talked about more than anything in elden ring. Look what this thread has become. Leave it long enough and his death will be brought up in a Genshin Impact thread lmao
Like, the trailer screams, JOEL IS A GHOST.
Them putting him in the launch trailer was MEANT to throw us off. And it worked.
It’s about trying to shock and surprise the audience. And it worked. Not about profit maximization. If it was that, Joel would have been the main character again. Think straight for a second.
It’s a shame it leaked. Because the reception would have been much different.
Edit: and here we go proving my point again, Joel’s death is talked about more than anything in elden ring. Look what this thread has become. Leave it long enough and his death will be brought up in a Genshin Impact thread lmao
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CliffyB's Cock Holster
TropicanaTwista
Member
Never understood why is death was met with such a reception. He literally is a main character in 1 game (in which you don't even play as him the entire game and the DLC you don't play as him at all)!They hinted at Joel’s death in literally the very first reveal trailer. We all knew it was coming. People guessed it right the moment they saw this
Like, the trailer screams, JOEL IS A GHOST.
Them putting him in the launch trailer was MEANT to throw us off. And it worked.
It’s about trying to shock and surprise the audience. And it worked. Not about profit maximization. If it was that, Joel would have been the main character again. Think straight for a second.
It’s a shame it leaked. Because the reception would have been much different.
Edit: and here we go proving my point again, Joel’s death is talked about more than anything in elden ring. Look what this thread has become. Leave it long enough and his death will be brought up in a Genshin Impact thread lmao
Like I liked Joel, but people are acting like he's been a mainline character for years like Kratos or Nathan Drake. I loved TLOU2, even with some problems it has. But never viewed killing off Joel as that big a deal.
sainraja
Member
I wasn't dismissing what you were saying about hints and I agreed that they should give us an option to make it optional or a way for the player to initiate it within the game environment. I was just sharing my experience....I found them to do that when it was something story related, not when it was something unrelated to moving the story forward - e.g. most of the chest based puzzles, they didn't offer any hint or clue. My point was, linear based games like GOW in the past have had built-in hint systems, sometimes integrated in a way that was seamless (Sands of TIme's save system was also a way for the Prince to see the future of his own actions) and with GOW: R, the character talking to you is their way of doing it, but yes, they shouldn't be so quick to solve it for you and it should be player initiated (show dialogue prompt over their head like TLOU).
I don't mind stuff like this because it makes it a little different from other games. The characters are part of the experience which a lot of you don't get. I loved how Sands of Time was when it released. I also loved how the Prince would say when you tried to quit "Are you ready to leave before I finish my story?" and he would yell out things to the princess when going after her. With linear games now, the characters being there for you is just a fun way for the game to keep you focused and moving forward, it is part of the experience.
In POP 2018, Farah would save you from falling. I thought that was neat but some players hated it. Some players just hate when things don't work exactly the way they want, I just don't get it.
In other games, when you first encounter a new mechanic, the game will explain how it works with the game's HUD/menu system. In GOW, your companions are telling you that and later in the game just reminding you of it. I don't see that as spoiling or solving it for you either. It is just done differently.
As for FW, I will have to see how deep the settings are, but I think you can turn off in-game help or reduce it. I remember it asking me if I want to see "help" like this again. Unless I am confusing it with another game (it was by Sony). I'll have to double-check.
What did Elden Ring do that separated it from BOTW? (I know it combines Souls gameplay into it, but what else?)
And in games like Assassins Creed, you can turn off those markers, right? So wouldn't that give you exactly what you are asking?
You can do you. I keep an open mind to most games I play and adapt. I don't necessarily expect every game to work the same way as the other game I like, that is why I have the other game lol.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Add me to the list of people who enjoyed Demon Souls PS5 a lot more than Elden Ring
I'll give Elden Ring the advantage when it comes to magic but Demon Souls has better bosses (so far) better visuals and I even like the environment designs better in Demon Souls
I'll give Elden Ring the advantage when it comes to magic but Demon Souls has better bosses (so far) better visuals and I even like the environment designs better in Demon Souls
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
You will find that opinions on these games will differ from person to person
For me
God of War Ragnarok > God of War 2018
TLOU > TLOU Part II
I think Ragnarok is better than 2018 in every area
sainraja
Member
I can agree that the way they did it was, bad....but I think their reason for doing so, was because they wanted to keep it a surprise and add to the shock factor.
Man, some of you get really twisted if game designers have you switch characters during the game without it being a choice.
They made the games long because for the longest time the complaint was how the games could have been longer....too short (10-15 hrs or 8 hrs isn't short) and now that they are long, it's "bloated"....gamers just don't know what they want lol.
And people can like Ragnarok better than 2018. Or like them both. Nothing wrong with that opinion just because it doesn't align with yours.
EDIT:
Although for TLOU: P2 - they could have separated the character play-throughs into their own campaigns, like RE2 - I bet a lot of people would stop complaining lol.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I can agree that the way they did it was, bad....but I think their reason for doing so, was because they wanted to keep it a surprise and add to the shock factor.
Man, some of you get really twisted if game designers have you switch characters during the game without it being a choice.
They made the games long because for the longest time the complaint was how the games could have been longer....too short (10-15 hrs or 8 hrs isn't short) and now that they are long, it's "bloated"....gamers just don't know what they want lol.
And people can like Ragnarok better than 2018. Or like them both. Nothing wrong with that opinion just because it doesn't align with yours.
EDIT:
Although for TLOU: P2 - they could have separated the character play-throughs into their own campaigns, like RE2 - I bet a lot of people would stop complaining lol.
I have never had a problem with a strong 12 to 15 hour game. thats the perfect length in many ways.
Id rather take 2 or 3 amazing different IPs with great storys over one 80 hour bloat fest or even 40 hours or so.
Also, no issue with it jumping to other characters, but in the case of "God Of War" then no, ive been playing for like almost 20 years...no I dont need to switch to an annoying teenager who uses a bow as a club lol
sainraja
Member
Games use to be 8 hrs, then they were 12-15 hrs and now they can be up to 30 hrs. When they were 8 hrs, it was too short. Even when it was 10-15 hrs, some said it was also short. Now it's bloated. Not just talking about you here.
Good thing they are not just designing games for YOU only then...eh?
You have to understand that they are aiming for the right balance. I was fine with how long GOW: R was. I took my time through it, explored every area and did all the side quests because I was enjoying the gameplay. Maybe you have tricked yourself into believing you actually enjoy the gameplay because I don't see a problem with getting "more" of what I like.
The game or series just might not be for you and that is perfectly fine.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
I’m actually really enjoying Abby’s section the second time around. If only they’d done a better job of engaging our empathy with her before having her kill Joel, I think a lot of people’s issues would have been avoided.
sainraja
Member
Yeah, I think you are right about that. That might have been a better way to handle it.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think you are right. I think it's that I just dont think that God Of War Ragnarok or Last Of Us 2 was good enough to carry a 25 - 40 hour game.
GIve me something like a Fallout / ELder Scrolls game, or witcher 3, or xenoblade, or Elden ring, or Returnal or Vampire survivors..or the list goes on and on and I don't even notice that im 100 to 200 hours in, because the games are actually good.
sainraja
Member
Well, I would say GoW: R is "actually [a] good" game but everyone wants different things from different games. If you really find the game to be long, then you can choose how much time you spend with it each time you launch it, you are still in control of that. You might prefer the setting or story of another game better and that is fine but one does not need to knock another game just because it doesn't match up 100% to what you want. So, I am fine with what you were saying overall in this post but you had to do the list # games and label those "actually good" over GOW:R/TLOU simply because you like them better lol. They all have their strengths. I am just glad that we have so many different types of games where you don't need that one game to be everything else.
The games you mentioned might be strong in a specific area and weak in others. They are still games people can enjoy. Same with GOW:R and TLOU.
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Flutta
Banned
They should go straight to making ER2 and skip the DLC.Damn right we care !!!
There will be DLC & Elden ring 2 after this !!!
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I think as times goes on there are just more outlets that give out awards. Wouldnt be surprised if Zelda breaks this record next year.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
That's nice, but the core of the gameplay, design, and mechancis are effectively the same slightly adjsuted for an open world environment, there's almost imo, no substantical change or increase in quality due to the open-world, in fact, I would say it has trade-offs, and is why imo, I don't believe it sticks out as much as people seem to be pushing for, and the casual players are buying it to wagon jump.
With that being said it's still a good game, I just certain gaming circles and journalists are really making it seem like there was some drastic improvement and revolutionary change to the Souls formula. It's this fact I doubt the next game they put out will replicate the tone that ER is receiving.
With that said, the Souls games are the Souls games, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with them.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
On consoles maybe lol.
sainraja
Member
The types of games I was speaking of tended to be around that long (e.g. Prince of Persia: Sands of Time was between 8-10).
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Fredrik
Member
No offense but it’s not ”certain” gaming circles and journalists. It’s the vast majority. There is no reason to downplay it’s success and praise or make it seem like it’s not worth it because it’s not your thing. Go back and listen to what John Linneman says in his GOTY video, I time-stampend the link for the ER talk.
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Eddie-Griffin
Banned
No it's not, the vast majority isn't calling it revolutionary, giving it gaming awards, and talking about things most of the people buying the game aren't talking about.
I'm not downplaying anything, your uplaying. For some reason you are saying you agree there's hyperbole but won't accept the opinion that it doesn't stand that much over other souls games.
There's nothing to downplay, the game is good, it's just not what LITERALLY a group of certain gaming circles and journalists are making it out to be, imo, and also imo, it's good, but i don't see a drastic improvement or revolution, in its core mechanics or gameplay, which you said you agreed with.
So not sure what the issue is.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Tell me you haven't played Elden Ring without telling me you haven't played Elden Ring.
Have you not learned your previous two lessons, Afro/VoostKain?
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Fredrik
Member
But they are, that’s why this thread exist.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
People giving out GOTY awards is not the "vast majority" you're now going back on your own argument previously talking about players. If you're basing the majority on the topic of this thread, than it is indeed certain gaming circles and a select jorunalists.
The average player of ER probably doesn't even know TLOU was the last record holder, and a month from now probably won't know or care that ER became the new number 1. They may even move on to another game who knows. I think you're applying selective things to broadly.
Conspiracies, I don't understand your lack of accepting a simple opinion.
I didn't attack the game, nothing I said broke any rules, I just said I IMO did not see such a great distance in improvement and revolution to the formula compared to the other souls games, which I also said were good. I also explained it.
I have stated my opinion, if you disagree with it that's fine. I don't see the need for being THIS defensive about a small opinion.
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