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Extensive new details on Zelda Breath of the Wild from Game Informer (Maybe spoilers)

I dont know if its just me but the GI Footage looks way better than what we've seen so far, the draw distance looks even more improved than what we saw from the Switch demo's this past month and the colors look more vibrant. Maybe im trippin out but it does seem a step above before.
 

ckaneo

Member
Oh man, every time I see new facts about Zelda BotW it more and more gives the impression of being utterly laborous, filled to the brim with busywork and tedium. I really hope the dungeon areas and shrines can make up for this torture with amazing puzzle design.
Is there one example of this?
 

Jb

Member
Do we know if the dungeons be tackled in any order like in Link Between Worlds?
If so I hope they increase their difficulty. The fact that each dungeon could only be designed around a single item in that game made the puzzles stupidly easy. Hopefully they're aware of that and found ways to make them more challenging.
 
What about being able to beat the final boss from the beginning? It's a bit...lame. Then again, maybe they implemented that idea in an interesting way. But HOW? :O
 

Jintor

Member
i'm reading people being disappointed that you have the freedom to beat the boss right off the bat and i'm like, yo, what

like, do you enjoy broken bridges or something
 

Branduil

Member
i'm reading people being disappointed that you have the freedom to beat the boss right off the bat and i'm like, yo, what

like, do you enjoy broken bridges or something

It seems like people are assuming that just because it's technically possible to run to Calamity Ganon immediately, it will somehow be easy to beat the game.
 

ckaneo

Member
What about being able to beat the final boss from the beginning? It's a bit...lame. Then again, maybe they implemented that idea in an interesting way. But HOW? :O

They never said you could beat Ganon, just that you could go to him.

Anyways, they solved the problem by adding alternate endings, so if you dont want to see the good ending, go ahead.
 

TrueBlue

Member
Considering the Guardians can OHKO Link, I doubt Ganon would have too much trouble.

It'll probably a relatively impressive feat if one pulls it off right from the start.
 

Jintor

Member
like it was technically possible to run up to dargoth ur and smack his dumb brain in in morrowind about 5 minutes into the game i think
 

daxgame

Member
damn, this thread sent my hype for the game through the roof again...
love the Chrono Trigger reminiscences with the ending thing :p
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Is there one example of this?
Of course there is, right in the op.

– You can spend rupees on a more expensive bed, giving you an extra heart the next morning
– These hearts are yellow and can’t be recovered if you’re hit in combat

Implying that visiting a specific place to get the maximum amount of life energy is required.


– Have to be careful during a thunderstorm, since your metal items can attract thunder
– Link can get killed by lightning

Random weather effects that may require you to wait or throw away your equipment, which in turn must be regained through redundant activities


– Link can keep multiple horses at a time
– Affection/loyalty important with horses
– Feed and take care of horses to raise their stats
– Can call horses over to you, but horses need to be within a certain proximity to be called

Seems like pure busywork, no mechanical challenge involved, leads to a lot of redundancies


– Horses can be killed by enemies
Implies the necessity of obtaining more horses through activities that can be done unboundedly often, so in all likelihood are not mechanically challenging, but just time-consuming


– Can mine rocks which can be solid for rupees or used for crafting
Mining is probably not mechanically challenging, but just a case of busywork


– No invincible weapons in the game, Nintendo says
Right to the end of the game, the player has to take on redundant tasks to obtain basic weapons that are a central part of the core moveset
 
Everyone keeps talking about Boomerangs and you know what I realized? Goriyas have never been in a 3D Zelda. In fact, Zelda 2 remains the only game so far I can think of with a "realistic" Goriya design, since it isn't top down with deformed sprites. With enemy weapons being a big deal in BotW.... could we be seeing Goriyas in 3D for the first time?! Pls Aonuma!

+ 3D Lynels for that true Zelda NES feel
 
Of course there is, right in the op.

– You can spend rupees on a more expensive bed, giving you an extra heart the next morning
– These hearts are yellow and can’t be recovered if you’re hit in combat

Implying that visiting a specific place to get the maximum amount of life energy is required.


– Have to be careful during a thunderstorm, since your metal items can attract thunder
– Link can get killed by lightning

Random weather effects that may require you to wait or throw away your equipment, which in turn must be regained through redundant activities


– Link can keep multiple horses at a time
– Affection/loyalty important with horses
– Feed and take care of horses to raise their stats
– Can call horses over to you, but horses need to be within a certain proximity to be called

Seems like pure busywork, no mechanical challenge involved, leads to a lot of redundancies


– Horses can be killed by enemies
Implies the necessity of obtaining more horses through activities that can be done unboundedly often, so in all likelihood are not mechanically challenging, but just time-consuming


– Can mine rocks which can be solid for rupees or used for crafting
Mining is probably not mechanically challenging, but just a case of busywork


– No invincible weapons in the game, Nintendo says
Right to the end of the game, the player has to take on redundant tasks to obtain basic weapons that are a central part of the core moveset
Sounds like immersive open ended gameplay to me. None of that strikes me as laborious or tedious.
 
Sounds like immersive open ended gameplay to me. None of that strikes me as laborious or tedious.


All of this sounds awesome to me too.

The durability mechanic is something the entire game is based around and you'll be finding new weapons in chests that refresh and taking enemies weapons constantly too. I highly doubt weapons will break in 5-6 hits once you get far enough from the Plateau.

The horse stuff is also a non issue because you can have 5 of them registered at your stables at a time so if you burn through 5 of them, be more careful and maybe don't charge guardians on horseback all the time unless you know what you are doing?

The mining thing is kind of a ridiculous complaint because all you do is attack an ore vein a few times to get an item. How is that laborous?

The lightning thing is super immersive and awesome and you don't have to throw your equipment away, you just have to unequip till the storm passes but you could use wooden weaponry, your bow, your runes. You won't be defenseless; imo the weather can just be looked at as another enemy in the world that you just have to puzzle solve your way around using the physics and your ingenuity.

I love everything about the design philosophy of this game and the way everything is so thoughtfully implemented I'm hard pressed to believe that it will feel like a slog.
 

LotusHD

Banned
The only thing I see as potentially tedious is the durability thing, which I'm honestly all on board for because it forces us to try out a bunch of different weapons, or stock up on them, as opposed to finding one good weapon and only ever using that.
 

Caelus

Member
The only thing I see as potentially tedious is the durability thing, which I'm honestly all on board for because it forces us to try out a bunch of different weapons, or stock up on them, as opposed to finding one good weapon and only ever using that.

It's not like late-game items will only be as durable as the simple swords and rods we saw in the early game plateau games, we even have weapons have a "reinforced" title in front of them, implying that if you happen to favor a weapon you might choose to strengthen it to avoid it being broken quicker.
 

LotusHD

Banned
It's not like late-game items will only be as durable as the simple swords and rods we saw in the early game plateau games, we even have weapons have a "reinforced" title in front of them, implying that if you happen to favor a weapon you might choose to strengthen it to avoid it being broken quicker.

Hence why I said potentially, as there's several things that would easily alleviate it any concerns I'd have.
 

ckaneo

Member
Of course there is, right in the op.

– You can spend rupees on a more expensive bed, giving you an extra heart the next morning
– These hearts are yellow and can't be recovered if you're hit in combat

Implying that visiting a specific place to get the maximum amount of life energy is required.


– Have to be careful during a thunderstorm, since your metal items can attract thunder
– Link can get killed by lightning

Random weather effects that may require you to wait or throw away your equipment, which in turn must be regained through redundant activities


– Link can keep multiple horses at a time
– Affection/loyalty important with horses
– Feed and take care of horses to raise their stats
– Can call horses over to you, but horses need to be within a certain proximity to be called

Seems like pure busywork, no mechanical challenge involved, leads to a lot of redundancies


– Horses can be killed by enemies
Implies the necessity of obtaining more horses through activities that can be done unboundedly often, so in all likelihood are not mechanically challenging, but just time-consuming


– Can mine rocks which can be solid for rupees or used for crafting
Mining is probably not mechanically challenging, but just a case of busywork


– No invincible weapons in the game, Nintendo says
Right to the end of the game, the player has to take on redundant tasks to obtain basic weapons that are a central part of the core moveset

Your entitled to you opinion but...

1) No, that's just if you want a temporary life boost, the same effect can be had by eating. You can upgrade hearts permanently through conventional zelda means. This feels like complaining for the sake of complaining.

2) Or just switch weapons. I mean lighting can hit enemies too.

3) I think we've moved past horses surviving after getting hit by lasers. I dont think obtaining horses is particularly laborious or tedious

As for the last two, they might be a problem or they might not be. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
So with the attraction of lightning to metal items, what's the potential for timing weapon throws to the delay between thunder and lightning? Imagine if you hear the crack of thunder, toss your sword toward an enemy and lighting strikes it just as it hits your target to deal extra damage.
 

Sylas

Member
Didn't they say you can just unequip metal swords/shields to avoid "thunder" (lightning)?
I don't know if they outright said it because one would think it's fairly obvious? If Link isn't wearing it and it's just in his inventory then it's not on the character model.

Overall I think all of the complaints listed above are... well, you do you, but I think they all sound cool. Or do you hate the fact that you had to go to specific places to get heart pieces in the previous games and not all (read: most) had no challenge behind them whatsoever?

Having to tame new horses sounds like a fun mini game for all the folk that just liked running around in Epona in OOT. I think we all know someone like that--plus there's merit in letting a player go out to retrieve the "best" horse they can find and make it their own. That's not busywork! That's core gameplay to some people.

No invincible items is going to kill a bunch of people, but my personal opinion is that people should try and stop being so neurotic about item usage. It actively hinders the enjoyment of any RPG/game with limited and powerful items for a TON of people I know and it's not a mechanic that's going away. At all. If they put in invincible weapons it'd legitimately ruin one of the main mechanics they've shown off. Maybe the Master Sword will only be usable for the Calamity Ganon fight.
 
So with the attraction of lightning to metal items, what's the potential for timing weapon throws to the delay between thunder and lightning? Imagine if you hear the crack of thunder, toss your sword toward an enemy and lighting strikes it just as it hits your target to deal extra damage.

I expect this to happen though is probably a rarity considering lightning isn't always going to strike where metal is.. probably. .

when it does happen it's going to be badass and make us feel like wizards tho.
 

Falchion

Member
There's a lot of really cool details here; I can pretty much guarantee I'll spend way too much time trying to find horses I like.
 
So with the attraction of lightning to metal items, what's the potential for timing weapon throws to the delay between thunder and lightning? Imagine if you hear the crack of thunder, toss your sword toward an enemy and lighting strikes it just as it hits your target to deal extra damage.

Huh I was sure the speed of light was faster than sound. Could be different in the Zeldaverse though
 
i'm reading people being disappointed that you have the freedom to beat the boss right off the bat and i'm like, yo, what

like, do you enjoy broken bridges or something

No they like game design and pacing

Remember those

When a developer lays out a series of obstacles that escalate in an exciting manner to keep a player engaged
 

KHlover

Banned
No they like game design and pacing

Remember those

When a developer lays out a series of obstacles that escalate in an exciting manner to keep a player engaged
More power to those who manage to beat a boss with thousands or maybe tens of thousands of HP with just a bomb rune and weapons that deal 10 dmg per hit and break after a few strikes.

EDIT:

Or just manage to get there. Castle Town is crawling with enemies that can one shot you.
 

Jocund

Member
No they like game design and pacing

Remember those

When a developer lays out a series of obstacles that escalate in an exciting manner to keep a player engaged
Having the ability to fight Ganon at the start does not preclude proper game design or pacing. What are you saying
 
And you're assuming that Zelda doesn't have that?

If you can play the dungeons in any order how can there be a proper escalation in dungeon difficulty and the resulting tension? ALBW didn't have that.

Having the ability to fight Ganon at the start does not preclude proper game design or pacing. What are you saying

Of course it does. You can do anything in any order, choose your path, do whatever you want. Games that have this type of design aren't that reactive and end up with either wonky difficulty curves (ALBW) or level scaling as a bandaid in order to enforce a difficulty curve (Bethesda).
 

m4st4

Member
Having the ability to fight Ganon at the start does not preclude proper game design or pacing. What are you saying

Don't be silly. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. As a Hero of Hyrule you must learn that yourself. The pacing is obviously there.

Of course there is, right in the op.

– You can spend rupees on a more expensive bed, giving you an extra heart the next morning
– These hearts are yellow and can't be recovered if you're hit in combat

Implying that visiting a specific place to get the maximum amount of life energy is required.


– Have to be careful during a thunderstorm, since your metal items can attract thunder
– Link can get killed by lightning

Random weather effects that may require you to wait or throw away your equipment, which in turn must be regained through redundant activities


– Link can keep multiple horses at a time
– Affection/loyalty important with horses
– Feed and take care of horses to raise their stats
– Can call horses over to you, but horses need to be within a certain proximity to be called

Seems like pure busywork, no mechanical challenge involved, leads to a lot of redundancies


– Horses can be killed by enemies
Implies the necessity of obtaining more horses through activities that can be done unboundedly often, so in all likelihood are not mechanically challenging, but just time-consuming


– Can mine rocks which can be solid for rupees or used for crafting
Mining is probably not mechanically challenging, but just a case of busywork


– No invincible weapons in the game, Nintendo says
Right to the end of the game, the player has to take on redundant tasks to obtain basic weapons that are a central part of the core moveset

I'd like to change 'redundancies' with 'fun and immersive' open world design choices.
 
If you can play the dungeons in any order how can there be a proper escalation in dungeon difficulty and the resulting tension? ALBW didn't have that.

By giving the player their entire main moveset at the beginning of the game. Not a halfstep to that like ALBW. All of it.
 
Of course there is, right in the op.

– You can spend rupees on a more expensive bed, giving you an extra heart the next morning
– These hearts are yellow and can’t be recovered if you’re hit in combat

Implying that visiting a specific place to get the maximum amount of life energy is required.
That's not what it implies

– Have to be careful during a thunderstorm, since your metal items can attract thunder
– Link can get killed by lightning

Random weather effects that may require you to wait or throw away your equipment, which in turn must be regained through redundant activities
That's not what it implies. Just don't equip those items. You don't need to throw them away

– Link can keep multiple horses at a time
– Affection/loyalty important with horses
– Feed and take care of horses to raise their stats
– Can call horses over to you, but horses need to be within a certain proximity to be called

Seems like pure busywork, no mechanical challenge involved, leads to a lot of redundancies
So complaining for the sake of it. Gotcha

– Horses can be killed by enemies
Implies the necessity of obtaining more horses through activities that can be done unboundedly often, so in all likelihood are not mechanically challenging, but just time-consuming
So complaining for the sake of it. Gotcha

– Can mine rocks which can be solid for rupees or used for crafting
Mining is probably not mechanically challenging, but just a case of busywork
So complaining for the sake of it. Gotcha

– No invincible weapons in the game, Nintendo says
Right to the end of the game, the player has to take on redundant tasks to obtain basic weapons that are a central part of the core moveset
So complaining for the sake of it. Gotcha
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
...these complaints are reaching.

Anyways, we're supposed to be getting a new update today, right?
Why would I have any wish to "reach" for something here, considering Zelda is one of my favourite game series? I'm certainly not thrilled to have to fear the next game in one of my favourite series will be loaded with a fuckton of garbage gameplay that has no purpose other than to "immerse".

Overall I think all of the complaints listed above are... well, you do you, but I think they all sound cool. Or do you hate the fact that you had to go to specific places to get heart pieces in the previous games and not all (read: most) had no challenge behind them whatsoever?

If no challenge is involved, it is entirely worthless, so yes, in those cases I hate the corresponding tasks, but heart peices are always guaranteed to be one-time tasks that are specifically designed for this collectible, working actively against redundancy and busywork. Exploration bases tasks are fine, but they need to be specifically designed and may not repeat themselves (like, just go to the same treasure chest again because your weapon broke).
 
Don't be silly. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. As a Hero of Hyrule you must learn that yourself. The pacing is obviously there.

Pacing is only there if the dungeons build up to Ganon. If the dungeons are required or near required (and therefore the game will have a satisfying progression in difficulty and escalating threat) then why make them optional at all? Proper pacing does nothing but improve a game and if playing the dungeons is the only way to have that in the game I don't see why the game would be designed this way.

That is, of course, unless the dungeons are truly optional, and you can only beat one or two and make a reasonable attempt at killing Ganon. In that case, the game would be a lot more free and reactive at the expense of actual pacing (escalation of increasing threat) and game design.
 
There are plenty of open world games that don't use level scaling (or a very minimal level scaling) or a flat difficulty.

I mean if there was a set difficulty, with certain areas and dungeons designated as hard areas and easier areas to a point that it would actually affect which areas could be traveled through, then you're playing a linear game. You are going where Nintendo tells you to go, in the order that they have decided for you based on your character's relative strength and capabilities at that point in the game. That isn't free. That's traditional Zelda, doing a series of dungeons that scale up in difficulty over the course of the experience.

I believe them when they say the game is truly open, that you can do the content in whatever order in the vein of ALBW. That means that you can walk into dungeon #4 (and the surrounding areas) about as easily as you can walk into dungeons #1 or #2 (and their surrounding areas). Anything else would be mechanically enforced linearity and the polar opposite of what this player choice focused open world zelda is all about.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Of course there is, right in the op.

– You can spend rupees on a more expensive bed, giving you an extra heart the next morning
– These hearts are yellow and can't be recovered if you're hit in combat

Implying that visiting a specific place to get the maximum amount of life energy is required.


– Have to be careful during a thunderstorm, since your metal items can attract thunder
– Link can get killed by lightning

Random weather effects that may require you to wait or throw away your equipment, which in turn must be regained through redundant activities


– Link can keep multiple horses at a time
– Affection/loyalty important with horses
– Feed and take care of horses to raise their stats
– Can call horses over to you, but horses need to be within a certain proximity to be called

Seems like pure busywork, no mechanical challenge involved, leads to a lot of redundancies


– Horses can be killed by enemies
Implies the necessity of obtaining more horses through activities that can be done unboundedly often, so in all likelihood are not mechanically challenging, but just time-consuming


– Can mine rocks which can be solid for rupees or used for crafting
Mining is probably not mechanically challenging, but just a case of busywork


– No invincible weapons in the game, Nintendo says
Right to the end of the game, the player has to take on redundant tasks to obtain basic weapons that are a central part of the core moveset
I kind of half-agree with this. Well, maybe 1/4th agree. Horses being killed sounds like a cool example of game design that lends to the organic feel of a truly dynamic world, but losing all of the stats you raised that horse with and going to get another does sound like it could be annoying.

As a miner in World of Warcraft and someone who's not a fan of crafting in any game I've played... yeah, I'm not looking forward to that either.

Durability sounds like a double edged sword. Yeah, it'll probably be annoying to lose your awesome weapons or armor, but at the same time it prevents the player from sticking with one really good weapon and forces them to be smart about their weapon use.

The bed thing sounds like something extra. I'd be surprised if yellow hearts extended beyond your max heart meter - they sound like an easy way to get a free Wal-mart knockoff of a heart container. It works, but it's not comparable to the real thing.

I highly doubt you have to dump your metal equipment in a thunderstorm.
 
I mean if there was a set difficulty, with certain areas and dungeons designated as hard areas and easier areas to a point that it would actually affect which areas could be traveled through, then you're playing a linear game. You are going where Nintendo tells you to go, in the order that they have decided for you based on your character's relative strength and capabilities at that point in the game. That isn't free. That's traditional Zelda, doing a series of dungeons that scale up in difficulty over the course of the experience.

And you would be right if skill and planning weren't wrenches that players could throw into those aspects.

Gothic is designed exactly like this.
 
I mean if there was a set difficulty, with certain areas and dungeons designated as hard areas and easier areas to a point that it would actually affect which areas could be traveled through, then you're playing a linear game. You are going where Nintendo tells you to go, in the order that they have decided for you based on your character's relative strength and capabilities at that point in the game. That isn't free. That's traditional Zelda, doing a series of dungeons that scale up in difficulty over the course of the experience.

I believe them when they say the game is truly open, that you can do the content in whatever order in the vein of ALBW. That means that you can walk into dungeon #4 (and the surrounding areas) about as easily as you can walk into dungeons #1 or #2 (and their surrounding areas). Anything else would be mechanically enforced linearity and the nadir of what this player choice focused open world zelda is all about.

Plenty of open world games intend for you to follow a critical story path along a level appropriate series of areas, while still allowing you to access or even complete other areas earlier.

You're meant to follow a list of clues in New Vegas that take you from Goodsprings to Primm to Nipton to Novac to Freeside to the Vegas strip, and the game is balanced around that, but there's nothing stopping a smarter player from just using a stealth boy or chems to run and sneak past the Deathclaws around Quarry Junction, right to Camp McCarran, where you can steal a uniform and take the monorail straight to the strip.

Witcher 3 has recommended levels for its regions and quests, but you could technically go and do Skellige before even doing the Bloody Baron stuff in Velen.
 
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