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[Eddie-Griffin]

I repeat third-party software sales will be overall up on NSW compared to 3DS in Japan.

You quote me but removed the context out. From the first part of your own quote I'm reffering to "this" which you can't know what "this" is without reading the post from before. So what is the "this" that is a complaint?

There are only 3 or 4 third-party dev & published games that sold over 1 million copies on the Switch in japan.

This part is important. Yes in terms of best-selling third party pubbed/dev titles the Switch is indeed worse than the 3DS and it's not looking like that's going to change. I also said previously that the games will sell more on Switch obviously being the lead platform in the region, BUT, some of those games sold more on PS hardware previously than they are selling on the which despite them still being big series and being on the Switch, which has among the highest installbase of any game system in the country.

Considering how poor the PS3 and PS4 sold against the handhelds but still managed to have series sell more than they are on the Switch with a higher installbase than both combined in the region, that creates a clear issue of Third-parties not selling the software the same.

You are making the argument that overall TOTAL TP software sales are falling from previous handhelds like the 3DS (or rather, you saying that's the argument I made) but that isn't what I was arguing.

Just going on Game Data Library and looking at the mediacreate/Famitsu numbers shows this very clearly that there's something preventing third-parties from growing bigger on the consoles for top-selling titles, which is why the million sellers list is so low. You would think a Series that sold over 1 million or close on the PS5 would do more than that with a much higher installbase and compared to previous portable gaming systems, LESS compromise in the gaming experience since unlike the 3DS, the Switch can run some semblance of the home console game without having to change it, but those games are selling LESS.

That's a pretty big problem.

Now separately, the viability decline with PS consoles isn't all Sony's fault, though some of the injuries were self-inflicted, and I believe this is the second gen in a row they didn't have a day 1 launch in Japan.

 

[Fully engaged]

You quote me but removed the context out. From the first part of your own quote I'm reffering to "this" which you can't know what "this" is without reading the post from before. So what is the "this" that is a complaint?



This part is important. Yes in terms of best-selling third party pubbed/dev titles the Switch is indeed worse than the 3DS and it's not looking like that's going to change. I also said previously that the games will sell more on Switch obviously being the lead platform in the region, BUT, some of those games sold more on PS hardware previously than they are selling on the which despite them still being big series and being on the Switch, which has among the highest installbase of any game system in the country.

Considering how poor the PS3 and PS4 sold against the handhelds but still managed to have series sell more than they are on the Switch with a higher installbase than both combined in the region, that creates a clear issue of Third-parties not selling the software the same.

You are making the argument that overall TOTAL TP software sales are falling from previous handhelds like the 3DS (or rather, you saying that's the argument I made) but that isn't what I was arguing.

Just going on Game Data Library and looking at the mediacreate/Famitsu numbers shows this very clearly that there's something preventing third-parties from growing bigger on the consoles for top-selling titles, which is why the million sellers list is so low. You would think a Series that sold over 1 million or close on the PS5 would do more than that with a much higher installbase and compared to previous portable gaming systems, LESS compromise in the gaming experience since unlike the 3DS, the Switch can run some semblance of the home console game without having to change it, but those games are selling LESS.

That's a pretty big problem.

Now separately, the viability decline with PS consoles isn't all Sony's fault, though some of the injuries were self-inflicted, and I believe this is the second gen in a row they didn't have a day 1 launch in Japan.

The only game you could possibly be talking about on the 3ds is yokai watch.
Sure, Final fantasy explorers did OK, but there was also far less choice on the 3ds for those kinds of games.
Dragon Quest 11 released on the Switch very last after almost everyone had played it and still sold well.
But then we have major success stories like Momotaro, The stupid fishing game bandai namco made and bloody bomberman did great.
Infact you are ignoring a lot of great games that have had huge success in Japan, games like Deadcells which would never have had a chance of selling well in Japan on any other system but the Switch. Games like Hades.
The problem you are having is you are blaming Nintendo for the situation, everyone else is blaming Capcom, Bandai Namco and Square Enix.

 

[Woopah]

Just going on Game Data Library and looking at the mediacreate/Famitsu numbers shows this very clearly that there's something preventing third-parties from growing bigger on the consoles for top-selling titles, which is why the million sellers list is so low. You would think a Series that sold over 1 million or close on the PS5 would do more than that with a much higher installbase and compared to previous portable gaming systems, LESS compromise in the gaming experience since unlike the 3DS, the Switch can run some semblance of the home console game without having to change it, but those games are selling LESS.

That's a pretty big problem.

Now separately, the viability decline with PS consoles isn't all Sony's fault, though some of the injuries were self-inflicted, and I believe this is the second gen in a row they didn't have a day 1 launch in Japan.

The bold part is right, but the "something" is not that there's an issue with the Switch. On PS3, PSP, PS4 and Vita the million seller titles were from these franchises:

Monster Hunter
Final Fantasy
Dragon Quest
Kingdom Hearts
Resident Evil
GTA
Metal Gear
Minecraft

Of those, the only franchises that have definitely sold over 1 million physical on Switch are Minecraft and Monster Hunter (Games Data has DQ XIS in the million sellers list, but that seems to be an assumption based on including digital.)

If the question is "why haven't new mainline Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil, GTA and Metal Gear games sold over 1 million on Switch" then the clear answer is that those games are not on Switch.

Mainline Dragon Quest was ported to Switch 2 years after the original release and it sold 790,000 physical. A mainline Dragon Quest that launched on Switch on Day1 would absolutely sell over 1 million.

Also PS5 did have a day 1 launch in Japan, though of course like everywhere else it has been impacted by supply constraints.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The only game you could possibly be talking about on the 3ds is yokai watch.

3DS sales figures are public, you can clearly see more third-party published million sellers and those close at a higher amount than the Switch which has a much higher installbase in japan with higher overall software sales.

This isn't really disputable. Japan figures aren't hidden. I'm not ignoring any games, you're ignoring the whole point of the discussion. That "fishing game" is one of the very very few million sellers on the Switch, which is the point, and until recently (based on an assumption so not actual released yet) DQ wasn't one either, and there were more on the 3DS by third-party pubs that sold over 1 million or close last gen.

If the question is "why haven't new mainline Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil, GTA and Metal Gear games sold over 1 million on Switch" then the clear answer is that those games are not on Switch.

That was never the question and it was brought up before, that does nothing but distract and poison the conversation because the point is lost. You know exactly what I'm saying and have clearly implied you have, so you listing these games makes ZERO sense and adds nothing.

Also PS5 did have a day 1 launch in Japan, though of course like everywhere else it has been impacted by supply constraints.

To be fair I should have clarified that I didn't mean the physical launch which is my bad, I meant the launch in general as seen here, https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-new...tedly-sidelined-to-focus-on-us-market-2812300

But regardless, even if the console was physically there, it seems that Sony didn't want to put effort into the actual launch in Japan and made 2nd priority to other markets instead of simultaneous promotion.

Of course, no one is denying some of the PS5 software issues aren't self-inflicted in some cases, but the actual issue isn't new and has been going on since PS3, but Sony has in some ways, accelerated the problem themselves.

Mainline Dragon Quest was ported to Switch 2 years after the original release and it sold 790,000 physical. A mainline Dragon Quest that launched on Switch on Day1 would absolutely sell over 1 million.

Maybe with sales, but there are games that weren't very late or released during high sales periods for the Switch, which looking INCLUDES the mentioned DQ, that couldn't ride that to a million. Which is opposite of how that would have worked on previous systems.

Again, this has been a CONSISTENT problem overtime, this didn't start with the Switch and PS5.

 

[Woopah]

That was never the question and it was brought up before, that does nothing but distract and poison the conversation because the point is lost. You know exactly what I'm saying and have clearly implied you have, so you listing these games makes ZERO sense and adds nothing.

I'm not trying to "distract and poison the conversation", I'm trying to answer your question.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you want to know why there are so few third party million sellers on Switch. Well the answer is that third parties are not putting their biggest games on the system. If third parties want to hit one million on Switch, they need to put their biggest franchises on the system, grow smaller franchises into bigger franchises, or create hit new franchises.

I listed those franchises because they are the franchises they sell 1 million. The ones that are on Switch sold over a million. The ones that aren't did not.

A big userbase alone isn't enough to make any game, third party or first party, a million seller. Third parties have to put games on the system which appeal to 1 million people.

To be fair I should have clarified that I didn't mean the physical launch which is my bad, I meant the launch in general as seen here, https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-new...tedly-sidelined-to-focus-on-us-market-2812300

But regardless, even if the console was physically there, it seems that Sony didn't want to put effort into the actual launch in Japan and made 2nd priority to other markets instead of simultaneous promotion.

Of course, no one is denying some of the PS5 software issues aren't self-inflicted in some cases, but the actual issue isn't new and has been going on since PS3, but Sony has in some ways, accelerated the problem themselves.

Agree with everything you say here.

Maybe with sales, but there are games that weren't very late or released during high sales periods for the Switch, which looking INCLUDES the mentioned DQ, that couldn't ride that to a million. Which is opposite of how that would have worked on previous systems.

Again, this has been a CONSISTENT problem overtime, this didn't start with the Switch and PS5.

DQ didn't do it because it was a port of a 2 year old game. A new DQ would hit 1 million on Switch. The DQ III remake has a chance to do it too (depending on what platforms it releases on.)

When you talk about "opposite of how that would have worked on previous systems" which games and systems are you talking about?

 

[Fully engaged]

3DS sales figures are public, you can clearly see more third-party published million sellers and those close at a higher amount than the Switch which has a much higher installbase in japan with higher overall software sales.

As everyone keeps asking you, what games are you talking about? Are you expecting any old trash to sell a million? That just has not and will not ever happen!

The million sellers on the 3DS from third parties are as follows

Yokai Watch 1, 2 and 3. The franchise was a cultural phenomenon that has died completely. Level 5 had a number of other successes, but they needed support from sales outside of Japan to pass a million and they were also published by Nintendo outside of Japan. Level 5 have failed to ship games at all that people are interested in for the last 5 years. In fact, it was their move to PC and Playstation that ruined their development pipeline. A move that was done before the Switch released.

Monster hunter games
and that is it.

here is the list of games that sold millions on the 3ds. I dont see many third party games. Where did you get your information from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_3DS_video_games

This is total worldwide sales and there is a distinct lack of third parties! In Japan alone, only Monhun and Yokai watch would have made it past a million on their own. Show us some data to back up your wild assumptions. Show us the games that sold millions on the PS2 that have new games on the Switch which have died thanks to the Switch. Show us anything to back up your wild ideas.

Oh, and here are the Switch million sellers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_Switch_video_games
A lot of third parties on that list.

And here is a list of the PS2s million sellers

that must be filled with Japanese games, right?
You tell us which of these games had a new entry on the Switch that failed in Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PlayStation_2_video_games

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

here is the list of games that sold millions on the 3ds. I dont see many third party games. Where did you get your information from?

You are jumbling a bunch of unrelated stats together, this is about the Japanese market domestically not WW. You are using wikipedia when the data is public.

https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

Switch million plus selling third-party dev/published games 3 within 300k of that 2

3DS million plus selling third-party dev/published games 14 within 300k of that 5

And that's with higher sales units of the top games on the 3DS list as well, Highest selling pub/dev third-party game was 3.5M on 3DS, for the Switch it's 2.8M with minecraft. 3DS had 6 games sell over 2 million in this category, and with more post 1 million entries in general.

We are talking about an incredibly steep decline.

I'm not trying to "distract and poison the conversation", I'm trying to answer your question.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you want to know why there are so few third party million sellers on Switch. Well the answer is that third parties are not putting their biggest games on the system.

This isn't an answer and doesn't make any sense, they weren't putting their "biggest" games on the 3DS either (MH aside) and they were still selling at a much higher rate, read the top of this post, you aren't understanding how deep the decline is. The games you mention have nothing to do with the conversation. Look at the above difference between 3DS and Switch.

The same games on Switch are selling much less than they were selling on 3DS entries with the Switch having a much bigger presence and installbase. That is with the Switch having LESS compromised entries, new series or old, and being closer to the console equivalents since the Switch didn't requires too much compromise compared to the 3DS, yet those Switch games aren't selling as the 3DS entries did new IP or old, with a much higher installbase. Seaparately, for series that sold well on PS consoles and are now console quality on Switch, they are also selling less despite being on a much more popular platform with more users than the last 3 PS consoles almost combined, and may soon be.

DQ didn't do it because it was a port of a 2 year old game. A new DQ would hit 1 million on Switch. The DQ III remake has a chance to do it too (depending on what platforms it releases on.)

When you talk about "opposite of how that would have worked on previous systems" which games and systems are you talking about?

Late releases don't stop games from selling if it's in demand and it's released during the growing period of the hardware if it's a staple IP, late releases were not an excuse before the Switch, You are also putting too much focus on one game and ignoring that not every game was in the same situation as DQ, but face the same issues anyway,

 

[Fully engaged]

You are jumbling a bunch of unrelated stats together, this is about the Japanese market domestically not WW. You are using wikipedia when the data is public.

https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

Switch million plus selling third-party dev/published games 3 within 300k of that 2

3DS million plus selling third-party dev/published games 14 within 300k of that 5

And that's with higher sales units of the top games on the 3DS list as well, Highest selling pub/dev third-party game was 3.5M on 3DS, for the Switch it's 2.8M with minecraft. 3DS had 6 games sell over 2 million in this category, and with more post 1 million entries in general.

We are talking about an incredibly steep decline.



This isn't an answer and doesn't make any sense, they weren't putting their "biggest" games on the 3DS either (MH aside) and they were still selling at a much higher rate, read the top of this post, you aren't understanding how deep the decline is. The games you mention have nothing to do with the conversation. Look at the above difference between 3DS and Switch.

The same games on Switch are selling much less than they were selling on 3DS entries with the Switch having a much bigger presence and installbase. That is with the Switch having LESS compromised entries, new series or old, and being closer to the console equivalents since the Switch didn't requires too much compromise compared to the 3DS, yet those Switch games aren't selling as the 3DS entries did new IP or old, with a much higher installbase. Seaparately, for series that sold well on PS consoles and are now console quality on Switch, they are also selling less despite being on a much more popular platform with more users than the last 3 PS consoles almost combined, and may soon be.



Late releases don't stop games from selling if it's in demand and it's released during the growing period of the hardware if it's a staple IP, late releases were not an excuse before the Switch, You are also putting too much focus on one game and ignoring that not every game was in the same situation as DQ, but face the same issues anyway,

You said million sellers. Now, you are changing it to within 300K. But you are excluding all digital sales using this fan site. And you are using worldwide numbers for Minecraft and Nintendo has Minecraft higher on their own site.. Those 6 games are Yokai watch and Monster hunter.. stop this shit

Total software sales for Nintendo Switch are over 917.59million units. That is 3 times the amount of the 3DS. The vast majority of that number is from 3rd party games.

By the way, just five minutes looking at your source and I found a mistake right away

113.
SWI
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate [All Versions]
Capcom
25 Aug 2017
94,973
379,611


184.
SWI
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
Capcom
25 Aug 2017
94,973
254,373

Errrrr

Do you think this is a good source? Hint, it isnt if it cant make up its mind about how it displays sales.

The reason I bring this up is simple. Many of the games in the top half of the 3ds sales were rereleased and sold at lower prices.. Some of them were sold at 600 yen. I know because I have lived in Japan for a very long time. Some of the top selling DQ games and Monhun games and even the yokai games were so over ordered by stores that they sold in bargain bins at 600 yen. Switch has never had that issue.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

By the way, just five minutes looking at your source and I found a mistake right away

113.
SWI
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate [All Versions]
Capcom
25 Aug 2017
94,973
379,611


184.
SWI
Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
Capcom
25 Aug 2017
94,973
254,373

Errrrr

Do you think this is a good source? Hint, it isnt if it cant make up its mind about how it displays sales.

Its bad enough you brought up total software sales when I said that's not what I was arguing multiple times.

But, this...

Are you just ignoring the [All Verisons] part of the data?

You do realize this site is compiled form released Famitsu and Media-Create data and gaming forums use it because it's not only reliable but based on the actual sales reports form both tracking outlets? There's no mistake here.

 

[Fully engaged]

Its bad enough you brought up total software sales when I said that's not what I was arguing multiple times.

But, this...

Are you just ignoring the [All Verisons] part of the data?

You do realize this site is compiled form released Famitsu and Media-Create data and gaming forums use it because it's not only reliable but based on the actual sales reports form both tracking outlets? There's no mistake here.

All versions but clumps the sales together! lol. Then dont list it twice.. Dont you see the issue with that?

It isnt official.
It doesnt support your arguement.
People have asked you countless times to name the games you believe are failing to hit sales targets.
You have never answered that question
You avoid admitting that the top 6 selling third party games come from just two franchises.
You are failing to accept that the Switch sells more software for third parties overall than the 3ds did. You do this by blindly ignoring numbers from Nintendo. You are a clown.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

All versions but clumps the sales together! lol. Then dont list it twice.. Dont you see the issue with that?

It isnt official.

This is like arguing against a leaked NPD sales sheet, except this info isn't leaked and is public.

 

[Fully engaged]

This is like arguing against a leaked NPD sales sheet, except this info isn't leaked and is public.

It is a chart made using numbers collected.
You are avoiding what has been asked.
WHAT GAMES THAT HAVE RELEASED ON THE SWITCH HAVE FAILED TO HIT SALES TARGETS?

 

[Woopah]

This isn't an answer and doesn't make any sense, they weren't putting their "biggest" games on the 3DS either (MH aside) and they were still selling at a much higher rate, read the top of this post, you aren't understanding how deep the decline is. The games you mention have nothing to do with the conversation. Look at the above difference between 3DS and Switch.

It makes perfect sense, the types of games that publishers release matter. Look at the games actually on 3DS' million sellers:

• Capcom put 4 major Monster Hunter physical releases exclusively on 3DS and got 4 million sellers. They put 1 such release on Switch and got 1 million seller
• SE put 3 mainline DQ physical releases exclusively on 3DS and got 3 millions sellers (or near enough the DQ8 remake is on 930,000 physical). They put 1 such release on Switch and got 1 million seller
• Level 5 put 5 Yokai Watch games on physical releases exclusively on 3DS and got 5 millions sellers (or near enough the DQ8 remake is on 930,000 physical). They then imploded after trying to chase the mobile market and are a shadow of their former selves. It would be fair to say however that the Yokai Watch franchise has declined massively since the 3DS days and that Yokai Watch 4 was a pretty big failure.

No one should be surprised that Switch does not have 4 million+ selling Monster Hunter games, 3 million+ selling DQ games and 5 million+ selling Yokai Watch games. It has not received that support from third parties.

Or to put it another way, which are the 14 third party games released on Switch that are supposed to have sold over 1 million?

The same games on Switch are selling much less than they were selling on 3DS entries with the Switch having a much bigger presence and installbase. That is with the Switch having LESS compromised entries, new series or old, and being closer to the console equivalents since the Switch didn't requires too much compromise compared to the 3DS, yet those Switch games aren't selling as the 3DS entries did new IP or old, with a much higher installbase. Separately, for series that sold well on PS consoles and are now console quality on Switch, they are also selling less despite being on a much more popular platform with more users than the last 3 PS consoles almost combined, and may soon be.

Some franchises sell more on Switch than 3DS and others have sold more on 3DS than on Switch, and that's without taking into account that the digital split is much higher on Switch than it was on 3DS. Its normal.

What do you mean by Switch having "a much bigger presence and install base"? For a long time Switch was selling worse than the 3DS and only surpassed it earlier this year.

Late releases don't stop games from selling if it's in demand and it's released during the growing period of the hardware if it's a staple IP, late releases were not an excuse before the Switch, You are also putting too much focus on one game and ignoring that not every game was in the same situation as DQ, but face the same issues anyway,

Late releases do impact a games performance. Dragon Quest Builders 2 did way better on Switch than the late port of Builders 1. Monster Hunter Rise did way better than the late port of Monster Hunter Generations.

I'm happy to talk about other games. Just tell me which ones you think should have sold over 1 million.

 

[Woopah]

It is a chart made using numbers collected.
You are avoiding what has been asked.
WHAT GAMES THAT HAVE RELEASED ON THE SWITCH HAVE FAILED TO HIT SALES TARGETS?

Games Data Library isn't perfect but it is a very good source of information. Much much more reliable than Wikipedia.

 

[Fully engaged]

Games Data Library isn't perfect but it is a very good source of information. Much much more reliable than Wikipedia.

The wikinumbers come from Nintendo's IR data
The game data comes from fans putting Mediacreate and famitsu estimated sales together..It causes situation like I highlighted above, Monhun XX being listed twice and with the (All versions) one appearing to have sold a further 300K at first glance, when it actually just added 70k to the total sales of the original release.

 

[Woopah]

The wikinumbers come from Nintendo's IR data
The game data comes from fans putting Mediacreate and famitsu estimated sales together..

Right, so Wikipedia will miss out games from the many many companies which don't regularly release software sales for Japan as part of their IR.

Media Create and Famitsu are the most reliable figures we have for physical sales in Japan.

 

[Fully engaged]

Right, so Wikipedia will miss out games from the many many companies which don't regularly release software sales for Japan as part of their IR.

Media Create and Famitsu are the most reliable figures we have for physical sales in Japan.

I am not complaining about Famitsu or Media create, I am talking about sloppy number tracker on the data base

 

[Woopah]

I am not complaining about Famitsu or Media create, I am talking about sloppy number tracker on the data base

Sloppy in what way? Its good that it tell us the total sales of a game, as well as the sales of the different versions. Its more information.

 

[Fully engaged]

Sloppy in what way? Its good that it tell us the total sales of a game, as well as the sales of the different versions. Its more information.

That should be written as two numbers. Showing two skus using the same number is weird. Especially, as it isnt consistent. Why does a discount version of Monhun require a separate entry when many games receive reprints and discounts but just dont call themselves rereleases?
Adding the number to the original release muddies the waters further as it implies that the total sales for Monhun xx would actually be 500K but that is not the case. Instead the database maker uses the same numbers twice.. How is that not an issue in any form of data tracking?

 

[Woopah]

That should be written as two numbers. Showing two skus using the same number is weird. Especially, as it isnt consistent. Why does a discount version of Monhun require a separate entry when many games receive reprints and discounts but just dont call themselves rereleases?
Adding the number to the original release muddies the waters further as it implies that the total sales for Monhun xx would actually be 500K but that is not the case. Instead the database maker uses the same numbers twice.. How is that not an issue in any form of data tracking?

Capcom releases their discount versions as separate SKUs (and these are counted as such by Media Create). So Games Data Library tells us that:

• Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate sold 254,373
• Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate (Best Price!) sold 125,238
• Therefore Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate [All Versions] sold 379,611

It could leave us to do the calculations ourselves, but I find it quite helpful that it does the maths for us.

 

[Fully engaged]

Capcom releases their discount versions as separate SKUs (and these are counted as such by Media Create). So Games Data Library tells us that:

• Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate sold 254,373
• Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate (Best Price!) sold 125,238
• Therefore Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate [All Versions] sold 379,611

It could leave us to do the calculations ourselves, but I find it quite helpful that it does the maths for us.

I guess it is just a personal thing, but I think it is confusing and not necessary.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

It makes perfect sense,

No it doesn't and it's been addressed twice, so you continuing to do it adds nothing to the discussion. You already know what I'm referring to 3x over by now.

Some franchises sell more on Switch than 3DS and others have sold more on 3DS than on Switch,

And the third-party decline between the two is massive and as I showed in the last post using GDB data you did not address in this post once, shows this decline, and it correlates with the lack of entries in the top selling Switch titles as well as how games are struggling to sell more than they did on PS consoles (for those games on both) despite the Switch having almost more install base than the last PS consoles combined.

You're mixing in some of your off-topic points with my argument, and are thinking I'm talking about something else. We have seen a very large decline from 3DS to Switch in third-party published sales, reach, mindshare, and how high entries generally go whether that's past 1 million or close.

Separately, the games on Switch that had high selling entries on PS consoles, while not having a compromised port like what would happen with previous Nintendo handhelds because the tech has undoubtedly improved, are selling less despite being on a much higher installbase than closing in on the cumulative total of the recent 3 PS consoles sales combined, if not over that already. Yet those games are getting the same reach, similar presence on shelves, and are failing to have similar or better momentum despite being on a console with such high adoption.

Both of these two separate things are a big problem, and indicate that third-parties are going to be capped and restricted with few exceptions, if they exodus. This is why we have seen an increased retreat to mobile over time, and have started to see japan start taking greater interest on PC (and too a much lesser extent, Xbox).

Sure, stuff Sony did accelerated the issue for SOME devs, but the issue was already there, and for the majority of third-party devs, PS was never a factor. Third-parties in general with few exceptions, just don't really have a hope to score big and do really well on the Switch as they could do on other gaming systems before, or even on NIntendos own 3DS. I believe this will have third-parties change how they make games for the worst outside those bigger exceptions.

Going from dozens to low single digits is any category is not good, and puts into question the future of AA-AAA japanese game development.

Heck, software wise home consoles are already on life support, they have been horrible so far.

 

[Fully engaged]

No it doesn't and it's been addressed twice, so you continuing to do it adds nothing to the discussion. You already know what I'm referring to 3x over by now.



And the third-party decline between the two is massive and as I showed in the last post using GDB data you did not address in this post once, shows this decline, and it correlates with the lack of entries in the top selling Switch titles as well as how games are struggling to sell more than they did on PS consoles (for those games on both) despite the Switch having almost more install base than the last PS consoles combined.

You're mixing in some of your off-topic points with my argument, and are thinking I'm talking about something else. We have seen a very large decline from 3DS to Switch in third-party published sales, reach, mindshare, and how high entries generally go whether that's past 1 million or close.

Separately, the games on Switch that had high selling entries on PS consoles, while not having a compromised port like what would happen with previous Nintendo handhelds because the tech has undoubtedly improved, are selling less despite being on a much higher installbase than closing in on the cumulative total of the recent 3 PS consoles sales combined, if not over that already. Yet those games are getting the same reach, similar presence on shelves, and are failing to have similar or better momentum despite being on a console with such high adoption.

Both of these two separate things are a big problem, and indicate that third-parties are going to be capped and restricted with few exceptions, if they exodus. This is why we have seen an increased retreat to mobile over time, and have started to see japan start taking greater interest on PC (and too a much lesser extent, Xbox).

Sure, stuff Sony did accelerated the issue for SOME devs, but the issue was already there, and for the majority of third-party devs, PS was never a factor. Third-parties in general with few exceptions, just don't really have a hope to score big and do really well on the Switch as they could do on other gaming systems before, or even on NIntendos own 3DS. I believe this will have third-parties change how they make games for the worst outside those bigger exceptions.

Going from dozens to low single digits is any category is not good, and puts into question the future of AA-AAA japanese game development.

Heck, software wise home consoles are already on life support, they have been horrible so far.

Which Fecking games? Your writing absolute horse shit.

Name the games or stop.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I guess it is just a personal thing, but I think it is confusing and not necessary.

It's not confusing at all, all versions means all versions together, so the first sales of that game would be the the original release before there were any other versions, when the 2nd version comes out and sales stop, they stop tracking the first version and start tracking the second version, repeat for the 3rd version and in the end you have {all versions] together.

This info shows you which versions sold more than others, and contributed to total sales. Yo-Kai did this as well as iirc Pokemon a few times. Sometimes the versions are quite different from eachother.

It organizes things and gives you historical perspective on the data.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Which Fecking games? Your writing absolute horse shit.

Name the games or stop.

I don't need to name any games, because the games are on the website you keep arguing isn't reliable. When you select the console it automatically organizes the games from top selling, so all you have to do is look for third=party publishers and you can see for Switch, for example, there are only 3 third-party published games.

If you do it with 3DS there are 14.

You are making this much harder than it is.

 

[Fully engaged]

It's not confusing at all, all versions means all versions together, so the first sales of that game would be the the original release before there were any other versions, when the 2nd version comes out and sales stop, they stop tracking the first version and start tracking the second version, repeat for the 3rd version and in the end you have {all versions] together.

This info shows you which versions sold more than others, and contributed to total sales. Yo-Kai did this as well as iirc Pokemon a few times. Sometimes the versions are quite different from eachother.

It organizes things and gives you historical perspective on the data.

It is messy.

 

[Fully engaged]

I don't need to name any games, because the games are on the website you keep arguing isn't reliable. When you select the console it automatically organizes the games from top selling, so all you have to do is look for third=party publishers and you can see for Switch, for example, there are only 3 third-party published games.

If you do it with 3DS there are 14.

You are making this much harder than it is.

Here are the million selling third party games on the 3ds in Japan. Tell me if i missed any. 5 are yokai watch. 5 are Mon hun games. 1 is a new DQ game. 1. is Puzzle and dragon 2000 yen game that is free to play on the Switch. It isnt 14 it is 12, of which 10 are yokai watch and Monhun.

1. Yo-kai Watch

2. Puzzle & Dragons Z

3. Yo-Kai Watch 3: Sushi / Tempura

4. Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate

5. Monster Hunter XX [All Versions]

6. Monster Hunter Generations

7. Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age


8. Yo-Kai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team / White Dog Squad

9. Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate

10. Yo-kai Watch 2: Psychic Specters

11. Yo-kai Watch 2: Bony Spirits / Fleshy Souls (not the same game)

12. Monster Hunter 4


So yeah 3DS was great for third parties.. if you were Monhun or Yo-kai watch.. maybe it was ok if you were a new DQ game as well.. other than that..................Shite.

Sorry missed a DQ remake

13. Dragon Quest VII: Fragments of the Forgotten Past

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Here are the million selling third party games on the 3ds in Japan. Tell me if i missed any. 5 are yokai watch. 5 are Mon hun games. 1 is a new DQ game. 1. is Puzzle and dragon 2000 yen game that is free to play on the Switch. It isnt 14 it is 12, of which 10 are yokai watch and Monhun.

1. Yo-kai Watch

2. Puzzle & Dragons Z

3. Yo-Kai Watch 3: Sushi / Tempura

4. Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate

5. Monster Hunter XX [All Versions]

6. Monster Hunter Generations

7. Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age


8. Yo-Kai Watch Busters: Red Cat Team / White Dog Squad

9. Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate

10. Yo-kai Watch 2: Psychic Specters

11. Yo-kai Watch 2: Bony Spirits / Fleshy Souls (not the same game)

12. Monster Hunter 4


So yeah 3DS was great for third parties.. if you were Monhun or Yo-kai watch.. maybe it was ok if you were a new DQ game as well.. other than that..................Shite.

Sorry missed a DQ remake

13. Dragon Quest VII: Fragments of the Forgotten Past

You are counting wrong (and missing layton for some reason), but you also miss the point in the post I replied to you with that even games near 1M also sold more on 3DS, you are completely ignoring how dramatic the collapse is from 3DS to Switch from third-party best selling software, several of which were system moving.

We are now two 3 1 million sellers and a few close by and the highest among all of them is 2.8M, yet the Switch has a larger installbase and more presence in japan than the 3DS ever did.

Then there's the separate issue of series that sold well on PS consoles selling less on the Switch despite it's much higher installbase. Even below 1M in many cases, but close by.

Best-selling third-parties have completely collapsed in Japan domestically, and upper AA-AAA games are farther and fewer than ever before, we already saw many move to mobile over the years as this got worse, but now we are seeing migration to PC, a platform that hasn't been of interest domestically in any significant level for over a couple decades.

 

[Fully engaged]

You are counting wrong (and missing layton for some reason), but you also miss the point in the post I replied to you with that even games near 1M also sold more on 3DS, you are completely ignoring how dramatic the collapse is from 3DS to Switch from third-party best selling software, several of which were system moving.

We are now two 3 1 million sellers and a few close by and the highest among all of them is 2.8M, yet the Switch has a larger installbase and more presence in japan than the 3DS ever did.

Then there's the separate issue of series that sold well on PS consoles selling less on the Switch despite it's much higher installbase. Even below 1M in many cases, but close by.

Best-selling third-parties have completely collapsed in Japan domestically, and upper AA-AAA games are farther and fewer than ever before, we already saw many move to mobile over the years as this got worse, but now we are seeing migration to PC, a platform that hasn't been of interest domestically in any significant level for over a couple decades.

Professor layton isnt in that list., the highest selling Layton game on that list sold 400k as far as I can see.. If it is what number is it? And you are completely ignoring the fact that AA nd triple A third parties are not supporting this Switch with new games. What is more you are brushing away facts like 10 of the 14 games being from 2 franchises. Below the million mark we find Square Enix DQ monster games, only one has released on the Switch just this month!

And the Switch is only in its 5th year on the Market but already has more games on it than the 3DS. 589 to 581 Obviously. it is a total failure. with more Physical games sold and released on it. Nintendo killed Japan.

 

[Woopah]

No it doesn't and it's been addressed twice, so you continuing to do it adds nothing to the discussion. You already know what I'm referring to 3x over by now.

You haven't addressed my point at all. On the million sellers list 3DS has 14 third third million+ sellers while Switch has 4. I agree that this is a bad thing

What I'm asking you is where are these other 10 million+ third party sellers for Switch supposed to come from? You haven't answered that.

Million+ sellers don't just appear because a platform has a large userbase. Third parties have to actually release big games on that platform that 1 million people want to play.

The problem isn't the Switch, its the games third parties are putting (or rather not putting) on the Switch.

And the third-party decline between the two is massive and as I showed in the last post using GDB data you did not address in this post once, shows this decline,

Third party software sales are going to end higher on Switch than they are on 3DS, so they will be no massive decline overall (We can get third party software shipment data for Japan directly from Nintendo's financials, which gets us around the issue of Media Create not having digital).

In terms of comparing big sellers between Switch and 3DS, there is definitely an issue there. No Japanese publisher has really been able to replace the collapse of Level 5. Likewise Switch has also been hurt that it has not got the same level of support from Atlus and Namco Bandai as the 3DS did.

and it correlates with the lack of entries in the top selling Switch titles as well as how games are struggling to sell more than they did on PS consoles (for those games on both) despite the Switch having almost more install base than the last PS consoles combined.

There are some cases where multiplats favour PS, especially when they are in franchises with a bigger history on PlayStation like Persona 5 or FFVII, but most multiplats now sell noticeable better on Switch.

Separately, the games on Switch that had high selling entries on PS consoles, while not having a compromised port like what would happen with previous Nintendo handhelds because the tech has undoubtedly improved, are selling less despite being on a much higher installbase than closing in on the cumulative total of the recent 3 PS consoles sales combined, if not over that already. Yet those games are getting the same reach, similar presence on shelves, and are failing to have similar or better momentum despite being on a console with such high adoption.

Which games do you mean here?

Both of these two separate things are a big problem, and indicate that third-parties are going to be capped and restricted with few exceptions, if they exodus. This is why we have seen an increased retreat to mobile over time, and have started to see japan start taking greater interest on PC (and too a much lesser extent, Xbox).

The biggest cap on third parties so far has been the slowness in supporting multiplatform development and building an audience for or their franchises on Switch. Some like SE have now fully managed the transition and their future looks bright, but others like Bandai Namco are still making mistakes (for example, they will lose out on a lot of sales by not having One Piece Odyssey on Switch).

 

[Fully engaged]

You haven't addressed my point at all. On the million sellers list 3DS has 14 third third million+ sellers while Switch has 4. I agree that this is a bad thing

What I'm asking you is where are these other 10 million+ third party sellers for Switch supposed to come from? You haven't answered that.

Million+ sellers don't just appear because a platform has a large userbase. Third parties have to actually release big games on that platform that 1 million people want to play.

The problem isn't the Switch, its the games third parties are putting (or rather not putting) on the Switch.



Third party software sales are going to end higher on Switch than they are on 3DS, so they will be no massive decline overall (We can get third party software shipment data for Japan directly from Nintendo's financials, which gets us around the issue of Media Create not having digital).

In terms of comparing big sellers between Switch and 3DS, there is definitely an issue there. No Japanese publisher has really been able to replace the collapse of Level 5. Likewise Switch has also been hurt that it has not got the same level of support from Atlus and Namco Bandai as the 3DS did.



There are some cases where multiplats favour PS, especially when they are in franchises with a bigger history on PlayStation like Persona 5 or FFVII, but most multiplats now sell noticeable better on Switch.



Which games do you mean here?



The biggest cap on third parties so far has been the slowness in supporting multiplatform development and building an audience for or their franchises on Switch. Some like SE have now fully managed the transition and their future looks bright, but others like Bandai Namco are still making mistakes (for example, they will lose out on a lot of sales by not having One Piece Odyssey on Switch).

They refuse to name names because it kills their argument. It is as simple as that.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The problem isn't the Switch, its the games third parties are putting (or rather not putting) on the Switch.

No it's not, this has been a consistent problem with Nintendo to Nintendo platforms and separately from PS consoles to Nintendo platforms, and we see higher interest in mobile and PC as a result, and this has been happening for awhile.

The part you keep getting stuck on is you keep viewing the current situation in a vacuum like it just started in 2020 when it hasn't. Not only has this been an issue that's gotten worse for generations, it's an issue that's been happening since the Switch launched, PS5 and XS didn't exist the first 3+ years of the Switches life.

The best related answer to what you said is that the audience might not be on the Switch but then where did that audience go? In Japn, the Switch is was the only viable option, especially with supply issues. This also helps make that theory fall apart, if it was jsut the games it wouldn't matter what platform those games were on or what "entries" in certain series are on, there wouldn't be any increased interest anywhere else, but there IS, therefore, what does that mean?

It means the problem isn't so much the games primarily as you say, but the platform the games are on, how the platform is handled, and how accessible the games are (physically which is still strong in Japan and contribute much to sales) and what's blocking these games from selling more.

The ENTIRE industry outside of Nintendo first party exclusives in japan can't ALL be putting out rubbish games that aren't selling, That doesn't add up. Even installbase board which tars Sony for their issues in Japan, doesn't go for an argument like yours and they have much more data and people digging through it than here.

They refuse to name names because it kills their argument. It is as simple as that.

You have a list you didn't read right and you're still asking for names when you literally saw the lsit, are you trolling?

 

[Fully engaged]

No it's not, this has been a consistent problem with Nintendo to Nintendo platforms and separately from PS consoles to Nintendo platforms, and we see higher interest in mobile and PC as a result, and this has been happening for awhile.

The part you keep getting stuck on is you keep viewing the current situation in a vacuum like it just started in 2020 when it hasn't. Not only has this been an issue that's gotten worse for generations, it's an issue that's been happening since the Switch launched, PS5 and XS didn't exist the first 3+ years of the Switches life.

The best related answer to what you said is that the audience might not be on the Switch but then where did that audience go? In Japn, the Switch is was the only viable option, especially with supply issues. This also helps make that theory fall apart, if it was jsut the games it wouldn't matter what platform those games were on or what "entries" in certain series are on, there wouldn't be any increased interest anywhere else, but there IS, therefore, what does that mean?

It means the problem isn't so much the games primarily as you say, but the platform the games are on, how the platform is handled, and how accessible the games are (physically which is still strong in Japan and contribute much to sales) and what's blocking these games from selling more.

The ENTIRE industry outside of Nintendo first party exclusives in japan can't ALL be putting out rubbish games that aren't selling, That doesn't add up. Even installbase board which tars Sony for their issues in Japan, doesn't go for an argument like yours and they have much more data and people digging through it than here.



You have a list you didn't read right and you're still asking for names when you literally saw the lsit, are you trolling?

You clearly are at this point.

PC market developed because of a general swing towards free to play games. It had nothing to do with Nintendo..
And I read the list, I posted the data. I proved the facts and showed you the stupidity of your comment.

Fine, I will tell you what the missing games are.

They are Resident Evil, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy there was a bunch of success for Anime Musuo games on the Ps2 and early PS3 but that genre has died on its ass and has been replaced by crossover Nintendo games.

Has there been a new RE game on the Switch? Answer. No
Has there been a new Metal gear game on the Switch? Answer. No
Has there been a new Main line Final fantasy game on the Switch? Answer No
Has there been 5 different Monster Hunter games on the Switch? Answer No.
Has there been a lightning in a bottle "Yokai Watch" type group of games on the Switch? Answer No.
Has there been a large investment by Atlas, Bandai Namco, Capcom, Koe Tecmo, or even Konami on multiple large third party games on the Switch? Answer No.

How on Earth can you in your right mind not see these facts?

 

[TLZ]

No Numbers this week apparently

Any idea why?

 

[remember_spinal]

Sony really is flooding every region with PS5’s. What a drastic turn around from last year

 

[supernova8]

Yeah really good PS5 numbers over the last 2 weeks which has pushed it to 1.15 million for 2022 versus 968k for 2021, an increase of about 185k (17%) year over year. With supply improving could it do over 1.5 million in 2023?

Do you reckon we'll (in Japan) be able to finally get a PS5 in 2023 without having to sign up to lotteries and Amazon invitation things?

 

[Heisenberg007]

So I have a question: what do y'all think Sony could do for the Japanese market to reposition PlayStation better against Nintendo, while not gimping their Western appeal?

Because any way you look at it, hardware sales may be improving to a point of stabilizing for PS5, and maybe some of these games are doing a lot more digitally than physically, but even with all of that factored it's just utter Nintendo domination in Japan. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that: it's a result of Nintendo providing the overall best balanced product for the market of Japanese customers and Japanese developers. They may have a monopoly on the Japanese gaming market in a sense (excusing mobile) but they earned that through selling a product customers resonated with and chose to buy of their own volition over Sony & Microsoft products. That's their reward for providing better competition (just mentioning this because some people think having a majority market share is all that matters when talking monopolies and it clearly isn't).

I think the obvious thing for Sony to do, personally, is to make another portable device. I've been saying this for a while now: make a PS4-spec'd equivalent portable device (in this case one you can repurpose into a high-end smartphone product and sell that as a different SKU for that specific mobile market), that can run PS OS and Android (save the dual OS-boot mode stuff for the smartphone version), can serve as a legacy device for native PS4 BC and taking all those games on the go, and providing a market alternative for Japanese devs who may not have the resources to target PS5-level games but would want to target specs at PS4 level just with the added bonus of doing so for a portable device, knowing their games would be seamlessly playable on PS4 & PS5 consoles as well. And, obviously, enable it to have Remote Play with those consoles.

IMO this is such a clear-cut route to go with that I'm surprised nothing's happened yet. It doesn't create a resource drain on 1P or 3P current-gen games targeting PS5 if they're cross-gen for example because that would mean they're also developing a PS4 version meaning it would run with no adjustments on the portable if it provides base PS4-level performance. Not EVERY current-gen game is going to require the full scale of PS5 or be designed in a way where scaling down actually hurts the game's scope (maybe the general design scope is more limited and the game's graphics can be easily scaled down from something running on PS5 to something running on PS4. Think of games like Sackboy's Big Adventure), so these games can easily have native builds for the PS4 and therefore this hypothetical portable.

Beyond that, like I said before it opens a new window of opportunity for Japanese developers who may want something more performant in a portable form than Nintendo's hardware, and that has the added benefit of having millions of home consoles for their game to natively run on for those who'd rather play the game that way (which would potentially be the case for many in the West who have a PS4 or PS5), AND they now have a reason to (potentially) make an Android version of the game if they so choose to run on the smartphone version of this hypothetical portable system (though since that would (should) have dual-boot support for PS OS as well, it may be redundant to build an Android version unless the dev wants to provide an Android version for other devices at some point). Having a smartphone variant opens up a means of adding in additional expected hardware and also selling the hardware for a higher profit margin while working with carriers to provide contract plans for cellular users, though I don't think the non-smartphone version would sell for a loss, either, and can probably be sold with a decent profit margin at $349. $399 might push it but I think that can work if Switch 2 comes in at $349 (and that might end up happening going by the pricing for the OLED model); while I expect that to be a good jump over the Switch spec-wise I doubt it'll hit PS4-tier performance levels.

There are other benefits to this as well IMO, but it all comes down to pricing and timing. I don't know how popular the Steam Deck is in Japan but it's found a pretty great following in NA and parts of Europe. I think the Switch 2 will have to be designed with some consideration for that device, but it could really screw over a new Sony portable if price/performance is better with a Steam Deck 2. That said, again it's down to timing, and Valve have a vastly different business model than Nintendo & Sony do. However, for Sony to make this work, hardware & pricing are only two parts of the equation: what they REALLY need is the right software, particularly for Japan.

The good news is that they can ensure that software has a home not just on the portable, but also PS4 & PS5 consoles so that choice helps them out particularly with Western customers because even if they choose to buy it for the console and not get the portable, Sony can just reallocate those portables back to Japan and other markets where it would sell better, and the software itself still can find its audience in all of these territories. Also say they may want to bring the game to Android in the future; well now that gives people with the smartphone version of the hardware another option to play it through, and gives the game a home on non-Sony portable devices running Android. But like I said, they need the right type of games and this is where some of their focused scope 1P-wise over the years has been a bit of a detriment. Maybe they'll get these kind of games through Asobi, Haven, Pixelopus etc internally but Sony really needs some big exclusive software that can function similarly to a Splatoon or Pokemon for the Japanese market, while having global appeal.

Right now they have IP with the potential to do it but none in effect doing such. I'm not counting stuff like GOW, GT or Horizon here: I know those have appeal among some Japanese gamers and (much more) appeal to global audiences, but they're not necessarily "all ages" kind of family-friendly stuff and the degree of their effectiveness as trans-media IP is still up for debate. Sony need something that can have an impact like a Pokemon, or Yu-Gi-Oh etc., that can be a big thing not just in gaming but also anime, manga, toys, maybe some kind of card game, clothing etc. Something that has big global appeal but crucially has huge mass appeal to markets like Japan.

They need software like that to drive a successful portable platform in Japan and the good news is, those games would be natively playable on PS4 & PS5 consoles anyway. They aren't designed as technical showpieces (nothing where they can only run on a PS5), therefore you aren't clogging up your production pipeline with arbitrary mandates creating needless bottlenecks (like what we'll eventually start seeing with Xbox unless MS removes the mandate that all games must have native Series S versions). And there are some legacy IP Sony have which I think could work to serving that need, such as:

-Parappa/UmJammer​

-Tomba​

-Ape Escape​

-Ratchet & Clank​

-Astro bot​

Those are the ones that come to the top of my head. However I'm not saying Sony to just bring these back as-is; rather they should expand on them to be experiences that can work in terms of expanded lore and story, deepening what parts of them can have more depth while still staying true to what make the games work & appealing in the first place. Maybe make a new type of multiverse IP combining these and making original game systems taking elements of gameplay from the respective IP, but also making sure there are some mechanics that can work well for say a card game, an anime/manga series etc. They'd have to get pretty creative, whether they use legacy IP or just make a completely new IP, but it's worth considering.

In fact, there's maybe other IP they could potentially tap for this, though it'd require bringing them into the 1P fold, probably through acquisitions. Those IPs are Kena and DokeV. I think there are overall worlds and lore with say Kena that could expand out into trans-media stuff, have a particular appeal with the Japanese market, and make for a good innovative card game & toy line; I think the basis are there in a lot of ways. However, I think there's a lot of potential for DokeV to do similar. Issue there though is we don't know a lot about the game yet, and from what's been shown seems specifically designed for systems like PS5 only. How much of that could be scaled down to run on a PS4 without affecting the game's design scope negatively? Well we'd need to see more of the game to actually know the answer to that, first.

Sony will have to produce pure Japanese games that don't necessarily appeal to Western audience at all.

However, I don't think Sony wants to do that. It all comes down to opportunity cost. Even after losing Japan, PlayStation is bigger than ever because they are selling proportionately more copies and earning more revenue by making games that appeal to Western audiences.

That's why, Sony would rather invest in games like that instead of trying to recapture the ever-shrinking console gaming market of Japan.

At best, Sony would lock games like Final Fantasy and produce first-party games like Ghost of Tsushima that appeals equally to both Japanese and Western gamers. And I believe that's the right strategy. PlayStation is bigger than ever, and Japan is not the same market for traditional console gaming that it was 10 years ago.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sony will have to produce pure Japanese games that don't necessarily appeal to Western audience at all.

However, I don't think Sony wants to do that. It all comes down to opportunity cost. Even after losing Japan, PlayStation is bigger than ever because they are selling proportionately more copies and earning more revenue by making games that appeal to Western audiences.

That's why, Sony would rather invest in games like that instead of trying to recapture the ever-shrinking console gaming market of Japan.

At best, Sony would lock games like Final Fantasy and produce first-party games like Ghost of Tsushima that appeals equally to both Japanese and Western gamers. And I believe that's the right strategy. PlayStation is bigger than ever, and Japan is not the same market for traditional console gaming that it was 10 years ago.

This is a good way of looking at it. They're selling more consoles now than ever, setting record revenue, increasing gaming division profit, and all of this is without specifically catering to the Japanese market.

They could obviously still have a growth opportunity in that market, of course, just as long as it's not at the expense of their global focus. If they want to pursue expansion with other strategies like a bigger push into mobile or MAYBE looking to bring some 1P IPs into PS+ Extra and Premium Day 1, I think that could give a good excuse for content (whether 1P or done in collab with 3P devs) leveraging classic IP, for games that would be their nature be both smaller scale (not command big budgets) therefore can be quirkier and recall shades of Sony's AA 1P from PS3 gen, but simultaneously service markets like Japan as well as larger business moves like mobile growth & PS+ while still having some appeal to global markets through that content (let alone the marquee AAA 1P games).

Personally I still think there's room for Sony to make some improvements on that note, but it should always be as something to supplement and add to the strategy they're already doing with software, which is clearly working. As you said, investing in IP like Final Fantasy, having 1P games like Ghosts of Tsushima, those in themselves help a lot with hitting the Japanese market, then they have all the other games with varying levels of appeal in Japan but large levels of appeal globally. It's a, generally, well-balanced strategy. But I would like to see some of the legacy IP come back and some of the quirkier, smaller games back as well with that Sony level of polish. Whether as 1P or 3P games, or even with Sony 1P or not (stuff like Katamari Damacy for example are owned by Bandai Namco IIRC, but closely tied to PlayStation brand-wise), I think there's room for them.

 

[Woopah]

snip

I'll go through you points one by one below, but I just want to check what I think is the source of or disagreement:

Am I right in thinking that you don't believe it matters what sort of games or franchises that third parties release on Switch? That, because of the high userbase, there should simply be something third party that does well?

Or to put it another way, do you think PSP would have as many high sellers if Capcom didn't release multiple Monster Hunter games on it? Do you believe that PS2 would have had as many high sellers if SE hadn't put mainline DQ and FF games on it?

Yous still haven't answered by questions about where all these new third party Switch million sellers are supposed to come from. Which publishers? Which games?

The part you keep getting stuck on is you keep viewing the current situation in a vacuum like it just started in 2020 when it hasn't. Not only has this been an issue that's gotten worse for generations, it's an issue that's been happening since the Switch launched, PS5 and XS didn't exist the first 3+ years of the Switches life.

I never said that it started in 2020 or that it is a recent phenomenon. Third party support for Nintendo platforms has been poor for a very long time. Its definitely not a recent issue, but a long-term once that has led to the situation today.

Its only in the last 2-3 years that it started to get better, and its going to have to keep getting better if third parties want to get high sales in Switch. Right now, it looks like SE is going to be the publisher that reaps the most reward (and possibly Konami too, depending on which games each of them announces).

The best related answer to what you said is that the audience might not be on the Switch but then where did that audience go? In Japn, the Switch is was the only viable option, especially with supply issues. This also helps make that theory fall apart, if it was jsut the games it wouldn't matter what platform those games were on or what "entries" in certain series are on, there wouldn't be any increased interest anywhere else, but there IS, therefore, what does that mean?

Some of the DS/PSP audience has undoubtedly gone to mobile and we're seeing some of the PS3/PS4 audience move to Switch and PC. Switch can possibly end up as the best selling platform in the country ever, because its absorbed the entire 3DS audience, taken some of the PlayStation audience and turned new people into gamers as well.

But if third parties want that audience to buy their games they need to provide that audience with big, appealing products. Same with PC, we wouldn't be seeing Japanese third parties doing well on that system if they weren't bringing their biggest games to it.

The ENTIRE industry outside of Nintendo first party exclusives in japan can't ALL be putting out rubbish games that aren't selling, That doesn't add up. Even installbase board which tars Sony for their issues in Japan, doesn't go for an argument like yours and they have much more data and people digging through it than here.

They aren't all are putting out rubbish games, the issue is that in many cases where they do make big games, they don't put them on Switch. Capcom is not going to get lot of big sellers on Switch if its games keep skipping the system. Same with Bandai Namco and their biggest games not being on Switch Day 1 or at all.

I'm on Installbase and many people there go for exactly the same argument as me. There's been plenty of criticism on there about third party's not putting their biggest releases on Switch (just look at the discussion around One Piece Odyssey, or around Falcom finally realising that they need to start supporting Switch).

 

[Fully engaged]

I'll go through you points one by one below, but I just want to check what I think is the source of or disagreement:

Am I right in thinking that you don't believe it matters what sort of games or franchises that third parties release on Switch? That, because of the high userbase, there should simply be something third party that does well?

Or to put it another way, do you think PSP would have as many high sellers if Capcom didn't release multiple Monster Hunter games on it? Do you believe that PS2 would have had as many high sellers if SE hadn't put mainline DQ and FF games on it?

Yous still haven't answered by questions about where all these new third party Switch million sellers are supposed to come from. Which publishers? Which games?


I never said that it started in 2020 or that it is a recent phenomenon. Third party support for Nintendo platforms has been poor for a very long time. Its definitely not a recent issue, but a long-term once that has led to the situation today.

Its only in the last 2-3 years that it started to get better, and its going to have to keep getting better if third parties want to get high sales in Switch. Right now, it looks like SE is going to be the publisher that reaps the most reward (and possibly Konami too, depending on which games each of them announces).



Some of the DS/PSP audience has undoubtedly gone to mobile and we're seeing some of the PS3/PS4 audience move to Switch and PC. Switch can possibly end up as the best selling platform in the country ever, because its absorbed the entire 3DS audience, taken some of the PlayStation audience and turned new people into gamers as well.

But if third parties want that audience to buy their games they need to provide that audience with big, appealing products. Same with PC, we wouldn't be seeing Japanese third parties doing well on that system if they weren't bringing their biggest games to it.



They aren't all are putting out rubbish games, the issue is that in many cases where they do make big games, they don't put them on Switch. Capcom is not going to get lot of big sellers on Switch if its games keep skipping the system. Same with Bandai Namco and their biggest games not being on Switch Day 1 or at all.

I'm on Installbase and many people there go for exactly the same argument as me. There's been plenty of criticism on there about third party's not putting their biggest releases on Switch (just look at the discussion around One Piece Odyssey, or around Falcom finally realising that they need to start supporting Switch).

You are trying to be reasonable with someone who is trolling. If they were really interested in discussing this issue legitimately, they would have posted the games they felt should have sold better on the Switch. Instead, they have repeated the same argument about "14 games(Which is only 13 because they think Layton sold a mill when it only sold 400K)" and when confronted with the fact those 14 games mostly came from just 2 franchises, they move the goal posts. When again anyone then explains that even below those big sellers, we only find DQ monster games they shut up.

Repeatedly people have told them that the large tentpole Japanese third-party franchises have not released new games on the Switch which destroys their argument completely and repeatedly they have resorted to trolling.

They are not interested in the decline of third-party sales at all. They just want to troll on Nintendo. "Nintendo are damaging Japan." They clearly have never been to Japan to see how stores like GEO display games. How GEO had a whole stand of DQ Treasures for sale before Christmas and POS displays promoting the game. Not to mention other major retailers doing all they can to sell third party games, even when the quality of the game is undercooked as it is with DQ treasures. And DQ Treasures still sold 200k on the switch despite being a poorly polished game with poor word of mouth.

 

[Deerock71]

Switch is more than ever a dedicated tablet for Nintendo games. This is good for Nintendo (and consumers who love Nintendo games) but people should not be surprised when the big AAA games are not released on that console (or only via streaming...).

Even Wii U had more third party games on it.

Now that's a wager I'd be interested in. I can't tell you how many months you could walk into a store and see the exact same 3rd party titles on a Wii U shelf, with no changes.

 

[Celine]

You quote me but removed the context out. From the first part of your own quote I'm reffering to "this" which you can't know what "this" is without reading the post from before. So what is the "this" that is a complaint?



This part is important. Yes in terms of best-selling third party pubbed/dev titles the Switch is indeed worse than the 3DS and it's not looking like that's going to change. I also said previously that the games will sell more on Switch obviously being the lead platform in the region, BUT, some of those games sold more on PS hardware previously than they are selling on the which despite them still being big series and being on the Switch, which has among the highest installbase of any game system in the country.

Considering how poor the PS3 and PS4 sold against the handhelds but still managed to have series sell more than they are on the Switch with a higher installbase than both combined in the region, that creates a clear issue of Third-parties not selling the software the same.

You are making the argument that overall TOTAL TP software sales are falling from previous handhelds like the 3DS (or rather, you saying that's the argument I made) but that isn't what I was arguing.

Just going on Game Data Library and looking at the mediacreate/Famitsu numbers shows this very clearly that there's something preventing third-parties from growing bigger on the consoles for top-selling titles, which is why the million sellers list is so low. You would think a Series that sold over 1 million or close on the PS5 would do more than that with a much higher installbase and compared to previous portable gaming systems, LESS compromise in the gaming experience since unlike the 3DS, the Switch can run some semblance of the home console game without having to change it, but those games are selling LESS.

That's a pretty big problem.

Now separately, the viability decline with PS consoles isn't all Sony's fault, though some of the injuries were self-inflicted, and I believe this is the second gen in a row they didn't have a day 1 launch in Japan.

Even with the context being what you previously called "third-party large sellers" meaning million sellers your posts are full of errors and your thesis that "Nintendo's Infuence" is what's preventing third-party games from becoming million-sellers is unfounded.
When comparing the third-party million-sellers in Japan on DS and 3DS using sell-in data one could states that third-party million-sellers on 3DS sold roughly 12 million units more than those on DS.
This is despite DS selling roughly 8 million consoles more than 3DS and overall DS third-party software sales being higher than the respective on 3DS.
How was is it possible?
It's impossible to correctly answer if you don't know the actual composition of the million-sellers that is from which historic franchises they belong or if they are a new kind of hit.

Looking at DS third-party million-sellers' total sales, the main contributors could be classified as the following:
1) Dragon Quest (mainline games, remake of past mainline games and the Dragon Quest Monster spin-off): ~63%
2) Level-5 multimedia projects (Professor Layton, Inazuma Eleven): ~20%

Others: casual games from Bandai Namco and Sega Sammy, remake of FFIII due to being released at the right time on DS (when DS was booming and consumers was craving for a big RPG to play on it) because FF remakes typically aren't million-sellers in Japan (FFVIIR is a bit of a special case in that it has the same budget of a mainline game while previous FF remakes had always lower production budgets).

Looking at 3DS third-party million-sellers' total sales (which, remember, were markedly higher than DS), the main contributors could be classified as the following:
1) Monster Hunter: ~43%
2) Level-5 multimedia projects (Yokai Watch): ~39%
3) Dragon Quest (mainline games, remake of past mainline games and the Dragon Quest Monster spin-off): ~11%

Others: consolized vesion of popular mobile hits like Puzzle & Dragon and Monster Strike.

Dragon Quest million-sellers on 3DS sold a lot less than on DS and if we look for the cause it's immediately apparent that there was a bigger DQ push on DS (DS got a full mainline game all for itself, 3 remakes and the DQM games were more successful) however the loss was compensated by Level-5 multimedia projects selling much better on 3DS than DS and Monster Hunter appearing on that era as a de facto exclusive for 3DS whereas it was totally missing on DS (DS couldn't run that kind of games...).
As you can see the explanation is simple once it is considered the "weight" of the games that appear on a platform.
The other important factor is that not every million-seller is equal in nature.
There are those that belong to franchise that had demonstrated to surpass the test of time, think for example about Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter and Final Fantasy (though the latter popularity has today greatly diminished from the height of the late '90s) and then there are million-sellers which are a result of a fad, that is their success cannot stand at above million-selling level for long (it's on borrowing time).
If you want a prime example of fad rider look no futher than Level-5 which specialized in finding out new kid fads with their multimedia projects (Inazuma Eleven, Yokai Watch).
This is a highly risky strategy because it leaves a company without a long term assent to fall off in needing times and because continously finding new fads is extremely hard and unpredicable.

So let's look at what support Switch received from the third-party franchises that were main contributors on DS and 3DS:

Monster Hunter:
Monster Hunter went from supporting exclusively 3DS to support PS4/XBO/PC/NSW, not just that but the first mainline MH appeared on Switch 4 years after the console introduction, that is much later than what happened on 3DS!
Still Monster Hunter Rise sold very well but is undoubtly that MH had a greater focus on 3DS than on NSW.

Dragon Quest:
Almost 6 years later and Switch has yet to receive a new Dragon Quest mainline game, has yet to receive a new remake of a past Dragon Quest mainline game (Dragon Quest X was an online game), has yet to receive a Dragon Quest Monsters game.
The best selling DQ game currently on NSW is the Director Cut of a mainline game released 2 years prior on PS4/3DS (albeit on 3DS as a sort of demake).
Even worse there was a total lull of Dragon Quest game releases between early 2019 and late 2022, basically skipping the years in which Switch hardware boomed.
That was a terrible scheduling by Square Enix.

Level-5 multimedia projects:
Level-5 has released Yokai Watch 4 on Switch but by the time the Yokai Watch fad in Japan was already over and Level-5 was incapable to create a new popular fad with Snack World and Megaton Musashi.

Final Fantasy:
Joke! The last time a new mainline Final Fantasy games launched day and date on a Nintendo console was on Super Famicom!

Switch continued the receive the usual family friendly games from Bandai Namco (with the Taiko NSW episode becoming the first million-selling Taiko game in Japan), got Minecraft which is absolutely huge and also had the unexpected exploits of a long running series like Momotaro Dentetsu which was at risk to be terminated in early '10s (Momotetsu has always sold very well in Japan but the Switch game is many times more successful than any previous episodes).

The lack of a multitude of third-party million-selling games is caused by the behaviour of who produce the games (third-party publishers) and their lack of skills to produce games that have the potential to garner wide popularity in Japan from all the demographics.
Ask yourself: is Splatoon popular because the Nintendo name is stamped on the cover or because it's a brilliant concept that match the the tastes of japanese consumers?
Remember the first Splatoon launched on that abject failure known as WiiU and yet sold in total 1.79M in Japan!
When was the last time Final Fantasy sold over 1.79M in Japan? FFXIII on PS3 released in 2009.
when was the last time a japanese third-party new IP sold over 1.79M in Japan? Yokai Watch 2 on 3DS released in 2014.
And before Yokai Watch 2? Monster Hunter Portable 2/United on PSP released in 2007 (Monster Hunter was created on PS2 but became the phenomen we know today on PSP).

Why aren't japanese third-party publishers coming out with "Splatoons"?
if your answer is "due to Nintendo's influence" then I would humorously joke that the problem is the exact opposite, they lack Nintendo's mojo .

But in the case you are still not convinced and stand that it's Nintendo consoles the problem: fine, Let's look at the last PlayStation console to ever approach 20M install base in Japan, that is PSP released in 2004.
What are PSP third-party million-sellers (again sell-in data)?
3 Monster Hunter games and 1 Final Fantasy spinoff (Dissidia).
That's it.

But let's go even beyond in time, what about the mighty PS2 (again sell-in data)?
Of the 19 third-party million-sellers:
- 2 Dragon Quest games (1 mainline, 1 remake of a mainline game)
- 3 Final Fantasy games (all mainline though 1 was a semi-sequel)
- 2 Kingdom Hearts games (all mainline, new hit series created on PS2)
- 4 Warriors games from Koei (new hit series created on PS2).
- 5 Winning Eleven games (what is known as PES in the west)
- 2 Onimusha games (new hit series created on PS2)
- 1 pachi-slot simulation game from Sammy (I kid you not!)

Now think for a moment, Switch has yet received a Dragon Quest new mainline game or new remake of amainline game, has received no new mainline Final Fantasy and no new mainline Kingdom Hearts game unless you take seriously a Cloud version.
No Winning Eleven/PES/eFootball either but even if it had received it wouldn't have become a million-seller.
Why? Because as I've already said "not every million-seller is equal".
Who follow exclusively the trends in western markets may be surprise to know that sport simulation franchises (which for decades are some of the best sellers each year in America and Europe) in Japan were never capable to sustain big sales for long stretch of time but always lived some sort of temporary fad (Nintendo/Jaleco/Namco sport games on Famicom, Everybody's Golf on PS1, Mario Tennis on N64, Winning Eleven on PS2, Wii Sports on Wii and the recent Nintendo Switch Sports).
But what about the Warriors games? Koei Tecmo heavily support Switch, why is there no Warriors game (even with a license facelift) that is a million-seller on Switch?
For the same reason that no Warriors game past PS2 were ever capable to reach 1 million in sales in Japan, no matter the platform, nor the external license attached to it...
Remember "not every million-seller is equal".
There are simply games whose cause of success is temporary and which gameplay doesn't possess an enduring quality that let a publisher to iterate the franchise and maintain high popularity generation after generation.

With this long post I went down the memory lane of Japan console game history, one must always keep in mind when looking at historical events that the context in which they are happening are in constant influx.
For example the game industry went through constant consolidation during which publishers merged (many big japanese publishers have a double name: Square Enix, Koei Tecmo, Bandai Namco) or acquired other publishers (Konami bought Hudson Soft from which obtained Momotaro Dentetsu), production and marketing budgets kept increasing and new form of digital entertainment emerged to challenge videogames for consumers time.
New possibilities arised like digital distribution (which removes the constrains connected to physical goods like the cost/time constraints due to manufacturing, the cost/time constraints due to the requirement to ship an item and the space constrain to store the item on space limited shelves) and what was once an industry with a strong "winner takes all" mentality is today forced to adopt multiplatform development to continue to be competitive globally (and is helped in this transition by the rise of middleware that helps multiplatform development).

 

[Celine]

So I have a question: what do y'all think Sony could do for the Japanese market to reposition PlayStation better against Nintendo, while not gimping their Western appeal?

Because any way you look at it, hardware sales may be improving to a point of stabilizing for PS5, and maybe some of these games are doing a lot more digitally than physically, but even with all of that factored it's just utter Nintendo domination in Japan. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that: it's a result of Nintendo providing the overall best balanced product for the market of Japanese customers and Japanese developers. They may have a monopoly on the Japanese gaming market in a sense (excusing mobile) but they earned that through selling a product customers resonated with and chose to buy of their own volition over Sony & Microsoft products. That's their reward for providing better competition (just mentioning this because some people think having a majority market share is all that matters when talking monopolies and it clearly isn't).

I think the obvious thing for Sony to do, personally, is to make another portable device. I've been saying this for a while now: make a PS4-spec'd equivalent portable device (in this case one you can repurpose into a high-end smartphone product and sell that as a different SKU for that specific mobile market), that can run PS OS and Android (save the dual OS-boot mode stuff for the smartphone version), can serve as a legacy device for native PS4 BC and taking all those games on the go, and providing a market alternative for Japanese devs who may not have the resources to target PS5-level games but would want to target specs at PS4 level just with the added bonus of doing so for a portable device, knowing their games would be seamlessly playable on PS4 & PS5 consoles as well. And, obviously, enable it to have Remote Play with those consoles.

IMO this is such a clear-cut route to go with that I'm surprised nothing's happened yet. It doesn't create a resource drain on 1P or 3P current-gen games targeting PS5 if they're cross-gen for example because that would mean they're also developing a PS4 version meaning it would run with no adjustments on the portable if it provides base PS4-level performance. Not EVERY current-gen game is going to require the full scale of PS5 or be designed in a way where scaling down actually hurts the game's scope (maybe the general design scope is more limited and the game's graphics can be easily scaled down from something running on PS5 to something running on PS4. Think of games like Sackboy's Big Adventure), so these games can easily have native builds for the PS4 and therefore this hypothetical portable.

Beyond that, like I said before it opens a new window of opportunity for Japanese developers who may want something more performant in a portable form than Nintendo's hardware, and that has the added benefit of having millions of home consoles for their game to natively run on for those who'd rather play the game that way (which would potentially be the case for many in the West who have a PS4 or PS5), AND they now have a reason to (potentially) make an Android version of the game if they so choose to run on the smartphone version of this hypothetical portable system (though since that would (should) have dual-boot support for PS OS as well, it may be redundant to build an Android version unless the dev wants to provide an Android version for other devices at some point). Having a smartphone variant opens up a means of adding in additional expected hardware and also selling the hardware for a higher profit margin while working with carriers to provide contract plans for cellular users, though I don't think the non-smartphone version would sell for a loss, either, and can probably be sold with a decent profit margin at $349. $399 might push it but I think that can work if Switch 2 comes in at $349 (and that might end up happening going by the pricing for the OLED model); while I expect that to be a good jump over the Switch spec-wise I doubt it'll hit PS4-tier performance levels.

There are other benefits to this as well IMO, but it all comes down to pricing and timing. I don't know how popular the Steam Deck is in Japan but it's found a pretty great following in NA and parts of Europe. I think the Switch 2 will have to be designed with some consideration for that device, but it could really screw over a new Sony portable if price/performance is better with a Steam Deck 2. That said, again it's down to timing, and Valve have a vastly different business model than Nintendo & Sony do. However, for Sony to make this work, hardware & pricing are only two parts of the equation: what they REALLY need is the right software, particularly for Japan.

The good news is that they can ensure that software has a home not just on the portable, but also PS4 & PS5 consoles so that choice helps them out particularly with Western customers because even if they choose to buy it for the console and not get the portable, Sony can just reallocate those portables back to Japan and other markets where it would sell better, and the software itself still can find its audience in all of these territories. Also say they may want to bring the game to Android in the future; well now that gives people with the smartphone version of the hardware another option to play it through, and gives the game a home on non-Sony portable devices running Android. But like I said, they need the right type of games and this is where some of their focused scope 1P-wise over the years has been a bit of a detriment. Maybe they'll get these kind of games through Asobi, Haven, Pixelopus etc internally but Sony really needs some big exclusive software that can function similarly to a Splatoon or Pokemon for the Japanese market, while having global appeal.

Right now they have IP with the potential to do it but none in effect doing such. I'm not counting stuff like GOW, GT or Horizon here: I know those have appeal among some Japanese gamers and (much more) appeal to global audiences, but they're not necessarily "all ages" kind of family-friendly stuff and the degree of their effectiveness as trans-media IP is still up for debate. Sony need something that can have an impact like a Pokemon, or Yu-Gi-Oh etc., that can be a big thing not just in gaming but also anime, manga, toys, maybe some kind of card game, clothing etc. Something that has big global appeal but crucially has huge mass appeal to markets like Japan.

They need software like that to drive a successful portable platform in Japan and the good news is, those games would be natively playable on PS4 & PS5 consoles anyway. They aren't designed as technical showpieces (nothing where they can only run on a PS5), therefore you aren't clogging up your production pipeline with arbitrary mandates creating needless bottlenecks (like what we'll eventually start seeing with Xbox unless MS removes the mandate that all games must have native Series S versions). And there are some legacy IP Sony have which I think could work to serving that need, such as:

-Parappa/UmJammer​

-Tomba​

-Ape Escape​

-Ratchet & Clank​

-Astro bot​

Those are the ones that come to the top of my head. However I'm not saying Sony to just bring these back as-is; rather they should expand on them to be experiences that can work in terms of expanded lore and story, deepening what parts of them can have more depth while still staying true to what make the games work & appealing in the first place. Maybe make a new type of multiverse IP combining these and making original game systems taking elements of gameplay from the respective IP, but also making sure there are some mechanics that can work well for say a card game, an anime/manga series etc. They'd have to get pretty creative, whether they use legacy IP or just make a completely new IP, but it's worth considering.

In fact, there's maybe other IP they could potentially tap for this, though it'd require bringing them into the 1P fold, probably through acquisitions. Those IPs are Kena and DokeV. I think there are overall worlds and lore with say Kena that could expand out into trans-media stuff, have a particular appeal with the Japanese market, and make for a good innovative card game & toy line; I think the basis are there in a lot of ways. However, I think there's a lot of potential for DokeV to do similar. Issue there though is we don't know a lot about the game yet, and from what's been shown seems specifically designed for systems like PS5 only. How much of that could be scaled down to run on a PS4 without affecting the game's design scope negatively? Well we'd need to see more of the game to actually know the answer to that, first.

How would the "PS4-spec'd equivalent portable device" you have in minds works?
Is it the same architecture as PS4 only shrunken down or is it a custom design like Steam Deck?
If it's the first case I wonder about the feasibility to have good factors like power draw(battery life),themal efficency and size.
If it's a custom design then some work to adapt the ports need to be done, though compared 15 years ago I'm sure middleware software will help with the job.
The problem is that it's still relatively fresh in publishers mind how Sony dropped like a rock their last handheld after just 2 years.
It won't be easy to convince them to strongly back a new PlayStation handheld out of the gate (the different expectations is why PSP and PSV were treated completely differently by third-parties).

I'm not sure why you are convinced the Switch successor can't reach "PS4-tier performance levels" when it's likely going to be released 7 years after the original Switch and will likely target 720p on the unit screen (so it's "PS4-tier" on lower, but native, resolution) and in the meantime upressing tech has made big improvements (for TV mode).
Another consideration is that I'm pretty sure consumers in Japan (and elsewhere) see higher value in a the hybrid model than a pure handheld (in Japan the Lite represent just 18.5% of total Switch HW sales in the Country as September 2022 and its share is declining quarter after quarter).

Anyway as you said the central point of PlayStation weakness in Japan is software related (to be precise the lack of an array of software that can target successfully a wide demographics).
In fact the PlayStation console with, by far, the worst sales in Japan is a handheld (PSV) which hint that the form factor alone isn't enough to offset the current negative scenario in which PlayStaion find itself enbattled.
Third-parties are unlikely to make a big difference since the trend is to support multiple platforms (thus including the dominant Nintendo ecosystem), plus most of the biggest software hits for the japanese market are directly controlled by Nintendo (you can pay Square Enix handsomely to get an exclusive Final Fantasy but if the other platform holder has Pokemon...).
Thus your suggestion to seek to bolster the production of first-party big hits (which inevitably should be tied to some sort of innovation) makes sense.
However I don't trust SIE to have the know how necessary to create such hits for the japanese market due to their history.
I'm very critic at how SCE/SIE conducted their first-party business in Japan, even on PS1 when they apparently were very successful (in reality most of the million-sellers SCE produced on PS1 was of the ephemeral kind, SCE/SIE mentality was always quite mediocre).
Since I've already elaborated on the subject on InstallBaseForum I just link the posts here if you want to read:

The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan [UPDATE: New Guidelines]

How do you think the PS5 price increase will affect sales in Japan? PS5 software was selling horribly and PS5 hardware was selling ok. I’m guessing hardware might decline a little once stock is available, thus dooming software into further depths of despair?

www.installbaseforum.com

The reasons and consequences of the decline of Playstation in Japan [UPDATE: New Guidelines]

How do you think the PS5 price increase will affect sales in Japan? PS5 software was selling horribly and PS5 hardware was selling ok. I’m guessing hardware might decline a little once stock is available, thus dooming software into further depths of despair?

www.installbaseforum.com

Lastly I'm not sure why you think Sony Legacy IPs to be so important to apply them to the creative new projects you've suggested.
If you have strong core gameplay mechanics then you don't need attach them to existing characters/lore, it's especially baffling because these Sony IPs suffers from lack of popularity (so they wouldn't add much in term of value).

 

[Celine]

Sony will have to produce pure Japanese games that don't necessarily appeal to Western audience at all.

Luckily Nintendo never had the need to produce pure Japanese games that don't necessarily appeal to Western audience at all.
They just create 'fun games for humans'.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Where are last week’s numbers?

We usually get them on Thursdays

 

[Fully engaged]

How would the "PS4-spec'd equivalent portable device" you have in minds works?
Is it the same architecture as PS4 only shrunken down or is it a custom design like Steam Deck?
If it's the first case I wonder about the feasibility to have good factors like power draw(battery life),themal efficency and size.
If it's a custom design then some work to adapt the ports need to be done, though compared 15 years ago I'm sure middleware software will help with the job.
The problem is that it's still relatively fresh in publishers mind how Sony dropped like a rock their last handheld after just 2 years.
It won't be easy to convince them to strongly back a new PlayStation handheld out of the gate (the different expectations is why PSP and PSV were treated completely differently by third-parties).

I'm not sure why you are convinced the Switch successor can't reach "PS4-tier performance levels" when it's likely going to be released 7 years after the original Switch and will likely target 720p on the unit screen (so it's "PS4-tier" on lower, but native, resolution) and in the meantime upressing tech has made big improvements (for TV mode).
Another consideration is that I'm pretty sure consumers in Japan (and elsewhere) see higher value in a the hybrid model than a pure handheld (in Japan the Lite represent just 18.5% of total Switch HW sales in the Country as September 2022 and its share is declining quarter after quarter).

Anyway as you said the central point of PlayStation weakness in Japan is software related (to be precise the lack of an array of software that can target successfully a wide demographics).
In fact the PlayStation console with, by far, the worst sales in Japan is a handheld (PSV) which hint that the form factor alone isn't enough to offset the current negative scenario in which PlayStaion find itself enbattled.
Third-parties are unlikely to make a big difference since the trend is to support multiple platforms (thus including the dominant Nintendo ecosystem), plus most of the biggest software hits for the japanese market are directly controlled by Nintendo (you can pay Square Enix handsomely to get an exclusive Final Fantasy but if the other platform holder has Pokemon...).
Thus your suggestion to seek to bolster the production of first-party big hits (which inevitably should be tied to some sort of innovation) makes sense.
However I don't trust SIE to have the know how necessary to create such hits for the japanese market due to their history.
I'm very critic at how SCE/SIE conducted their first-party business in Japan, even on PS1 when they apparently were very successful (in reality most of the million-sellers SCE produced on PS1 was of the ephemeral kind, SCE/SIE mentality was always quite mediocre).
Since I've already elaborated on the subject on InstallBaseForum I just link the posts here if you want to read:

http://[URL][URL]https://www.instal...update-new-guidelines.287/page-47#post-102968

[/URL][/URL]

http://[URL][URL]https://www.instal...update-new-guidelines.287/page-47#post-103231

[/URL][/URL]

Lastly I'm not sure why you think Sony Legacy IPs to be so important to apply them to the creative new projects you've suggested.
If you have strong core gameplay mechanics then you don't need attach them to existing characters/lore, it's especially baffling because these Sony IPs suffers from lack of popularity (so they wouldn't add much in term of value).

These were same amazing posts you put up.
It really can be hard to explain Japanese gaming industry to people who have not lived in Japan, or really spent time looking at the Japanese market. We get so many hot takes about mobile gaming and "Japan likes handhelds" and of course there is a grain of truth to it, but the biggest issue is game designers not staying in touch with the tastes of Japanese gamers. Amazingly it is the Western indie developers who have benefitted most from it. Games like Hades, Terraria and Deadcells have been huge hits on the Switch. For people outside Japan, it might be hard to understand that Japanese gamers care more about Humans fall flat than The Last Of Us.
I think Japan overall as a general market still wants games to be just fun. As you said about Splatoon and its explosion. Games that are just fun sell incredibly well in Japan. It isnt like a market does not exist for High end triple A games, it just is smaller than the market that wants to have fun.

 

[sandbood]

Where are last week’s numbers?

We usually get them on Thursdays

Delayed to 12th January according to Famitsu.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Saw in another forum that Media Create sales for December 2022 are out...and this is what happened.

Switch is still a beast with over 650k sold...but the biggest surprise was the PS5, which sold an impressive 218k for only the month of december!

To put that in perspective...remember those 2 or 3 weeks Series S outsold the PS5 and everyone was celebrating? Well...in december alone the PS5 outsold Series S and X's lifetime sales, which stand at 208 265 in Japan according to Media Create.

 

[remember_spinal]

Saw in another forum that Media Create sales for December 2022 are out...and this is what happened.

Switch is still a beast with over 650k sold...but the biggest surprise was the PS5, which sold an impressive 218k for only the month of december!

To put that in perspective...remember those 2 or 3 weeks Series S outsold the PS5 and everyone was celebrating? Well...in december alone the PS5 outsold Series S and X's lifetime sales, which stand at 208 265 in Japan according to Media Create.

Jeez the physical model ps5 almost did it alone

 

[Woopah]

As we wait for new numbers, what are people's expectations for 2023?

Hardware-wise I expect we'll see Switch continue to decline, and PS5 grow (possibly by quite a bit as shortages are coming to an end).

In terms of software, Nintendo releases look very strong from what we know already (starting with FE: Engage) but I'm a bit worried about third party. There's not too many big Switch third party sellers dated yet, though of course a Direct could change that.

PS5 on the other hand looks like it will have its best year for third party support so far. Will be interesting to see the impact on its total software sales.