• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Female Smash player was sexually molested at EVO: Offender banned from comp play 1 yr

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gxgear

Member

Raiden

Banned
Lol the typical alcohol and not a bad person excuse. I have been drunk as shit numerous times and stuff like that never happens if its not in your person as is.
 

Ferr986

Member
The severity of the punishment doesn't seem to give any room for redemption on a drunken mistake, if we believe in second chances and all that.



And that's perfectly fine, but again I would rather see him prosecuted criminally.

he had a second chance, and what he did with it is try to grope the girl again.

Also, we are talking about a fucking videogame tournament, not throwing him at jail.

There needs to be 0 tolerance with this . It's the only that this people stop and think again before doing anything wrong like this, seeing as how they care that much about their game (just look at the pic in OP). Honestly, I'm amazed at how banning him 1 year of playing a videogame tournament is a severe punishment for what he did.

Btw the more I read what happened the more I call bullshit at the excuse that he was so drunk and he don't remember nothing, but I guess that discussion is old already.
 

Valentus

Member
So the 1 year ban isnt even in consensus and official?

What is this fucking joke.

Unlike Nintendo enforces it, it'll never be really 'official' though that all TO's have to adhere to.

So dont release a statement making it feel "official". It only confuses people that doesnt know how the community works.

Like i said, its a joke.
 

Seiniyta

Member
. . .

Okay, now I'm okay with Smash being dropped from EVO.

That is a bad fucking look for the Smash community. Holy fuck.

They're literally following the guidelines that Capcom used for similar situations with this gravitos and leaving it up for individual TO's to decide what to do with it.

I do expect both EVO and CEO to ban him for much longer then one year however.

The twitlonger....was not great however.


So the 1 year ban isnt even in consensus and official?

What is this fucking joke.

Unlike Nintendo enforces it, it'll never be really 'official' though that all TO's have to adhere to.
 

RMI

Banned
I don't see why the smash community would want to put their non-sex-offender players in the position of having to choose whether or not they should play at the same event as this guy. I know that if I were intent on competing but one of the other competitors was basically a criminal, I would feel torn between wanting to play and not wanting to play in the same tournament as him.
 

ps3ud0

Member
Just saw the Global Smash 4 Leadership Group statement and man thats a pathetic response to what happened. The follow up statement from Bear confirms that.

Its obvious this isnt a community that is run well or capable of organising itself to a point where it has rules/regulations.

ps3ud0 8)
 

Wereroku

Member
They're literally following the guidelines that Capcom used for similar situations with this gravitos and leaving it up for individual TO's to decide what to do with it.

I do expect both EVO and CEO to ban him for much longer then one year however.

The twitlonger....was not great however.

Unlike Nintendo enforces it, it'll never be really 'official' though that all TO's have to adhere to.

That's bullshit. This was much more serious then the Capcom example. Also the Capcom ban should have been longer.
 

guek

Banned
They're literally following the guidelines that Capcom used for similar situations with this gravitos and leaving it up for individual TO's to decide what to do with it.

I do expect both EVO and CEO to ban him for much longer then one year however.

The twitlonger....was not great however.




Unlike Nintendo enforces it, it'll never be really 'official' though that all TO's have to adhere to.
This is not the same situation AT ALL. Harassment and assault are not the same thing.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
He should receive a lifetime ban for his actions, 1 year is not appropriate considering what has occurred. He has not demonstrated any remorse for what he did and is more concerned with being able to continue to play smash in the future.

They are not a court of law, and punishments should be handled by them. I view this more as a topping of 'fuck you' over the shit storm he has already faced, and will continue to face. Members of that community are not qualified to judge a persons crimes, and that is what they have tried to essentially do.

Personally I would have banned him for life, not as a punishment, but because I wouldn't want him anywhere near an event I was part of, and I think that is where they erred. In a years time, the rapey guy will be floating around the comps again, and that isn't good for other people there, even if it truly was a one off mistake and he truly is a nice guy, he will still bring that presence with him to future events and people will know it and be uncomfortable.

As for actual punishment, that is for the police and courts.
 

aeolist

Banned
They are not a court of law, and punishments should be handled by them. I view this more as a topping of 'fuck you' over the shit storm he has already faced, and will continue to face. Members of that community are not qualified to judge a persons crimes, and that is what they have tried to essentially do.

Personally I would have banned him for life, not as a punishment, but because I wouldn't want him anywhere near an event I was part of, and I think that is where they erred. In a years time, the rapey guy will be floating around the comps again, and that isn't good for other people there, even if it truly was a one off mistake and he truly is a nice guy, he will still bring that presence with him to future events and people will know it and be uncomfortable.

As for actual punishment, that is for the police and courts.

this is some weird semantics
 

Sami+

Member
Noble | Sol (sponsored, #1 Little Mac player) has gone on Twitter saying he's going to flatly boycott any tournament Hyuga participates in. So that's something at least.
 

diaspora

Member
Reasons for a perma ban:
  1. safety of players
  2. PR, so people can actually take the community seriously
  3. to at least make the players themselves feel safe and give them an environment they actually want to participate in
Reasons to not perma ban:
  1. not thinking sexually assaulting someone twice is a that big of a deal
 
Man, this is not a good look for the community. Yes, all it takes is one mistake to fuck up your life. A lifetime ban from Smash competitions is a small price to pay for sexual assault. One year is a joke.
 
They are not a court of law, and punishments should be handled by them. I view this more as a topping of 'fuck you' over the shit storm he has already faced, and will continue to face. Members of that community are not qualified to judge a persons crimes, and that is what they have tried to essentially do.

Personally I would have banned him for life, not as a punishment, but because I wouldn't want him anywhere near an event I was part of, and I think that is where they erred. In a years time, the rapey guy will be floating around the comps again, and that isn't good for other people there, even if it truly was a one off mistake and he truly is a nice guy, he will still bring that presence with him to future events and people will know it and be uncomfortable.

As for actual punishment, that is for the police and courts.

Bans aren't punishment. They're given and enforced to protect everyone else. Banning a hacker isn't designed to punish the hacker; it removes them from the player pool to protect the other players from someone who is cheating.

What a 1 year ban says, is that they don't actually care about an admitted sexual predator participating in the tournament - they just want to wait a year until everyone forgets about it.

And that's really, really shitty of them.
 

diaspora

Member
Bans aren't punishment. They're given and enforced to protect everyone else. Banning a hacker isn't designed to punish the hacker; it removes them from the player pool to protect the other players from someone who is cheating.

What a 1 year ban says, is that they don't actually care about an admitted sexual predator participating in the tournament - they just want to wait a year until everyone forgets about it.

And that's really, really shitty of them.

"b-b-but he's not a bad guy!"
 

Azuran

Banned
Reasons for a perma ban:
  1. safety of players
  2. PR, so people can actually take the community seriously
  3. to at least make the players themselves feel safe and give them an environment they actually want to participate in
Reasons to not perma ban:
  1. not thinking sexually assaulting someone twice is a that big of a deal

You forgot another reason in the second section

2. He's not a "bad" person
 

Sami+

Member
Reasons for a perma ban:
  1. safety of players
  2. PR, so people can actually take the community seriously
  3. to at least make the players themselves feel safe and give them an environment they actually want to participate in
Reasons to not perma ban:
  1. not thinking sexually assaulting someone twice is a that big of a deal

^^^^^^^^^^^
This is infuriating. I'm stunned at how little the higher ups in the community seem to care about this.
 

Wereroku

Member
Man, this is not a good look for the community. Yes, all it takes is one mistake to fuck up your life. A lifetime ban from Smash competitions is a small price to pay for sexual assault. One year is a joke.

This is why it would be helpful if Nintendo was more involved with the scene.

Bans aren't punishment. They're given and enforced to protect everyone else. Banning a hacker isn't designed to punish the hacker; it removes them from the player pool to protect the other players from someone who is cheating.

What a 1 year ban says, is that they don't actually care about an admitted sexual predator participating in the tournament - they just want to wait a year until everyone forgets about it.

And that's really, really shitty of them.

Exactly these TOs need to protect their female players from a known predator and any future predators.
 

Seiniyta

Member
This is not the same situation AT ALL. Harassment and assault are not the same thing.

I probably shouldn't have replied there. I didn't know the details of what went down with that one. But it was mentioned on twitter/reddit the idea is following their guidelines on misconduct.

Now, Hyuga unfortunately isn't the only one having done terrible things in the smash community.

Ph4hT2H.png


https://twitter.com/Smapps_/status/755030660671078400
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
On a different note; did her BF sleep through all of this??

I can't get past this part of the story.

Did he just wake up from his own drunken stupor the next morning and missed everything entirely? Was waking DJ whatevs simply out of the question despite his GF being groped in the same bed?
 

Negaduck

Member
The thing is, like, yeah shitty people do shitty things.

But it's bigger than that. He needs a lifetime ban or some real reap big consequences.

A statement needs to be made that this sort of action has ZERO tolerance in the FGC. To hopefully prevent anything terrible from happening again.

There shouldn't be any discussion, there should not be a 1 year ban (but only if people feel like it). Otherwise why would any female or even male feel okay when as a community it's decided that a 1 year ban slap on the wrist is okay for MOLESTING SOMEONE IN THEIR SLEEP TWICE.

Unless the kid went to counseling I wouldn't want him as a part of any tournaments or local sessions.
 

diaspora

Member
Not implementing a zero-tolerance and perma-ban policy for sexual assault, let alone committing it twice is fucking ridiculous. Not only morally, but for the longer-term health of the Smash and fighting game community in general.
 
Smash is FGC and FGC has had issues with misogyny for years.

It's not all terrible, like you said there's some pretty high profile trans players (Xaltis comes to mind, also from FL) but that doesn't mean this problem shouldn't be VERY seriously addressed and fixed.
They're pretty different. Smash community doesn't really mingle with the fgc apart from dreamhack, evo, and ceo. They usually have their own smash events. Fighting game tournaments (not all of them) do run smash, but they don't largely show up like they do in their smash events.
 

dity

Member
^^^^^^^^^^^
This is infuriating. I'm stunned at how little the higher ups in the community seem to care about this.
And people before in the thread thought the community had no problems itself and it was just a "society" problem. Yeah, fuck off with that. This one-year long "recommendation" is basically no punishment at all.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
Evo should drop Smash until the community/organizers gets their shit together. Didn't they drop GG for a year after the bracket rigging and other community issues? Pretty small compared to this.
 

Boney

Banned
What really bothers me is how rushed the statement was prepared in order to try and cool down the fire instead of just a pronunciation of discussions are being held and that they're taking this very seriously and don't want to rush anything.

It's one of the dissapointing aspect of the smash community being ran by kids.

This is a high profile case that can be used as an example in the community. Nobody's saying "off with his head", nobody's saying he should be killed or whatever. Hell, I'm REALLY fucking angry about this whole thing and not even I'm fussed about whether or not he gets jail time because right now the decision to place charges is in Vikki's hands and doesn't really have anything to do with the community. HOWEVER, she doesn't have the authority to ban him and has to just trust the community to handle this properly. And the proper way to handle this is to make it known that he's not fucking welcome in our community anymore. Period.

We don't want predators in our community. We don't need predators in our community. We shouldn't tolerate predators in our community.
I wish and hope Vicky presses charges. I understand she's under immense pressure and scrunity of a huge number of people that would like to sweep this under the rug at best and at worst are gonna blame and harass her for it. Pressing charges extends even beyond the concern of the FGC and would probably help her cope with the situation a lot better by placing the responsability on Hyuga instead of an ethereal "why does this happen" that eats you up through the years.

I absolutely agree that the community should not welcome these behavior nor these individuals. But I also believe that the precedent of expulsion is not the best way to protect the community. But I prefer a positive approach towards how people can feel safe, where making an example of Hyuga isn't a hard ban but rather better measures to prevent this from happening and promote more inclusive practices so women aren't such a minority in these places. Creeps can be anywhere, and if you can have Hyuga back having learned the lesson, it's possible to have one less creep around. And that has nothing to do with time in of itself, hence why one year is not an apt measure.

I think you're approaching this reasonably but despite the difficulty in enforcement, this really does feel like an empty gesture by the community leaders. At the very least, he should be permanently banned from EVO even if they can't enforce that ban at other tournaments. There's a huge difference between the capcom incident that qualifies as harassment and this incident which is clearly assault and there should be a proportionate response.
Definately. While it didn't happen directly in EVO, it was completely associated with the event and they have the right to never open their doors to him again, but more importantly they need to have known measures to know how to deal with this situation and the community should probably learn to help tone down the partying when it comes to "kids", especially since I'd assume it's easy to spiral out of control in Vegas and due to the EVO high. Party, go out, drink, dance whatever but do it safely and since everybody knows each other everybody needs to take care of each other as possible. I'm not blaming alcohol in itself or excusing him but rather don't help promote a binge drinking or black out culture because many accidents/incidents can happen.

The bigger problem for me with the second letter rather than explaining the authority they have over the ruling is the tone they present it with, which seems to be bending over some pushback.

lol wtf is this nonsense. The guy is a sociopath and a predator. He should be locked up right now with a trial lined up. He sexually assaulted this girl twice. He would have done even worse if they were alone.
I don't appreciate the dismissive attitude, but yes charges should be made.

It is a private organization or federation of organizations. They have
no obligation to place someone's rehabilitation over the safety of other members.

Nor should they.
A ban isn't conducive to safety in on itself. The ban should be made, whereas it's indefinite or not is debatable but this isn't a situation to be toyed around with. But the ban needs to be just the immediate measure towards more pressing matters that needs to help avoid this type of situation, by dealing this not as a stand alone incident but a constant problem that occurs in the community and gaming as a whole.

As for the prison comment, I'm not in a "not screwe up his life", but more about what is the right message. No tolerance for this is just a part of what needs be done and the longevity is not important in the grand scheme of things as long as it's not understood as a slight slap in the wrist.

This is where I disagree with you. I don't think the community owes him any expectation of forgiveness. If he wants to make a strong public apology, speak out against misogyny and sexual harassment in the FGC, and encourage movements that promote safety and respect within the FGC, then that would be great. And if he did those things, then the community might naturally forgive him. But he should do them because they're the right thing to do, not because there's any promise of forgiveness at the end of the tunnel.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm 100% there with you. The community stop giving their back relies solely on Hyuga and what he brings not as talent for the community but as an actual member. There shouldn't be a promise of forgiveness and if member reevaluate his admittance, it's not a public hard lined imperative, but as you said because he would want to make the community better by doing his part.
 

Sami+

Member
The FGC is in a better place now than it was even ten years ago in regards to its treatment of women, but it's sad that this is true in spite of it still being fucking horrible. The ideal we should be striving towards is a community with an even split of demographics where everyone feels welcome and safe, but that will never be possible if we don't all adopt a zero tolerance stance on this behavior.
 

Negaduck

Member
I would love Evo as a whole or the greater Fgc communities (NRS/tekken/animu/SF) pretty much banning him from events those games are at. If smash won't do it (recommendation, fucking hell) I would hope wiz or other TO's can say something.
 

diaspora

Member
The whole narrative about him not being a bad guy is probably most depressing of all. If you sexually assault someone (let alone twice back to back), you're a bad person. The question of alcohol here is fucking irrelevant.
 
1 year isn't even a joke, it's insulting and tells women to expect a horrible environment. And yet they're trying to say a recommendation for it might be too harsh.

Big L for you, Smash organizers.
 

TheMan

Member
Wow, a one year ban that seems to be a recommendation vs an actual ban. This guy needs to be banned permanently. The fact that Evo peeps are being pussies about this is baffling.
 

kpeezy

Banned
If smash won't do it (recommendation, fucking hell) I would hope wiz or other TO's can say something.

People saying this are so ignorant. It's a recommendation because there are like 7 different groups running major smash tournaments and there is no central body. Think of it as if there were 7-10 different "EVOs". Smash is very grass roots even its major tournaments are grassroots events on their 7th year + running.

All these reactionist assholes saying ban smash from EVO need to get a clue.
 

Dipper145

Member
Ban him for life, and press sexual assault charges against him. That should be the appropriate action made right? I don't even see how there can be a debate about this at all.
 

Beth Cyra

Member
Evo should drop Smash until the community/organizers gets their shit together. Didn't they drop GG for a year after the bracket rigging and other community issues? Pretty small compared to this.
They didn't drop Marvel or SF for Noel pulling the same shit or Aris during the Cross Assault blow up.

Not sure why they would Smash when it brings the numbers it does.
 

Seiniyta

Member
I would love Evo as a whole or the greater Fgc communities (NRS/tekken/animu/SF) pretty much banning him from events those games are at. If smash won't do it (recommendation, fucking hell) I would hope wiz or other TO's can say something.

Almost certain Hyuaga will be banned from EVO and CEO for a long long time. And Hyuaga mentioned himself (if I recall) that he won't go back to the US to compete (at all)

And in Mexico (where he lives) he's banned as well.

I think for Hyaga the above statements made don't change much for him. I doubt he'll come back anytime soon. I think, for all intents and purposes, his smash career is done. Technically he might come back, but it would be a nasty experience for everyone involved, including Hyuga which makes it less appealing to go.


However, the smash community needs to make a proper guideline that's signed by all the major TO's where punishment for misconducts and much worse are unified.
 

Boney

Banned
Evo should drop Smash until the community gets it shit together. Didn't they drop GG for a year after the bracket rigging and other community issues? Pretty small compared to this.
Definately. EVO needs to lead this since I don't have any trust on this being properly handled with the gravity it deserves. EVO is the pivotal player. What are their statements on the matter? I assume they are taking a hands off approach while condemning the act?

And this begs the question, would the Melee community be involved in this? Probably not but they should also be an active player in this situation.
 

DedValve

Banned
I would love for Nintendo to take a stand for this and even threaten not allowing smash at Evo (since they did this before for all the wrong reasons). But I also won't hold this over Nintendo even if I am unsatisfied at their absolute spineless lack of trying to better the community.

Still 1 year ban is far too short and not anywhere near severe for what he tried to do. Alcohol makes you do stupid shit. Raping someone is not stupid shit, thats just some malicious and evil shit right there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom