Support NeoGAF

[diaspora]

This was the absolute most mild form of sexual harassment out there

 

[Gxgear]

he had a second chance, and what he did with it is try to grope the girl again.

Also, we are talking about a fucking videogame tournament, not throwing him at jail.

There needs to be 0 tolerance with this . It's the only that this people stop and think again before doing anything wrong like this, seeing as how they care that much about their game (just look at the pic in OP). Honestly, I'm amazed at how banning him 1 year of playing a videogame tournament is a severe punishment for what he did.

Btw the more I read what happened the more I call bullshit at the excuse that he was so drunk and he don't remember nothing, but I guess that discussion is old already.

He was still drunk at the time. That's not second chance.

And his offense has absolutely nothing to do with the tournament, but the game's "governing body" has taken upon itself to be involved.

The extremist point of view I'm seeing around here is pretty unsettling.

 

[anothertech]

Do you crusaders know the punishment for sexual assault first offense in any other competition in the United States? 1 year first offense is very strict by comparison. Let alone the punishment in the court of law, a fine and registered as a sex offender, no jailtime. This was the absolute most mild form of sexual harassment out there and it is specifically given lower punishments in the courts compared to sexual assault involving penetration, etc.

You're comparing this to an NFL player, worth millions per year, who's entire livelihood are based on their job which the courts and leadership have to consider.

This is not the case here. You are way off base. Not even close.

 

[kpeezy]

I'm very saddened to see people not reading the full chain of posts. If you do it's very clear I am defending the smash TO's that everyone is throwing under the bus because of their recommendation. I'm trying to point out that what they did is strict compared to other major sports organizations and I'm sure that is where they looked to for guidance on this matter.

Also, http://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/sexual-assault.html

CTRL + F groping and you can see that in Nevada it is not even classified as sexual assault. That is my point, but you bored trolls can quote an individual post or line and use it however you would like, I don't care.

 

[diaspora]

He was still drunk at the time. That's not second chance.

And his offense has absolutely nothing to do with the tournament, but the game's "governing body" has taken upon itself to be involved.

The extremist point of view I'm seeing around here is pretty unsettling.

There's nothing unsettling about banning someone from attending events when they demonstrate a habit of sexually assaulting people. It's basically decency in ensuring participant safety.

 

[Sami+]

Its not your decision to make, nor anyone else's here asking for a lifetime ban (which wouldnt be that harsh). The guys at EVO did what they deemed right and gave him a 1 year ban

How the community should handle this kind of action isn't the decision of people in the community to make? Are you joking? Neither I nor anyone else here was in that room when Hyuga assaulted her, and in our law system the onus of pressing charges lies solely with Vikki as an individual.

How the rest of the community as a whole wants to take action to prevent this from happening again and make everyone feel safer is absolutely up for debate, and any member of the community's opinion is just as valid as a TO because it involves literally everyone who goes to these tournaments. If you have an opinion you want to make them say it, if you want to "move on" then do so. This isn't complicated.

 

[Dremark]

I know that USA Swimming banned an individual for life after a sexual assault. The first one, no less. Shock and awe.

Mike Tyson was allowed to return to boxing after he was convicted of rape.

I'm not saying it's right but it's not that uncommon for athletes to continue thier careers after something like this.

 

[Gestault]

Do you crusaders know the punishment for sexual assault first offense in any other competition in the United States? 1 year first offense is very strict by comparison. Let alone the punishment in the court of law, a fine and registered as a sex offender, no jailtime. This was the absolute most mild form of sexual harassment out there and it is specifically given lower punishments in the courts compared to sexual assault involving penetration, etc.

Just an observation on my part: You appear to mix up the terms "sexual assault" and "sexual harassment," and suggest that repeated, under-the-clothing physical contact falls under the most mild form for this kind of offense. Are you sure about that?

Edit: Looks like someone did the footwork, and you're off-base:

"Like many states, Nevada refers to rape as sexual assault. Sexual battery is essentially physical force used by someone who intends to commit sexual assault. Battery is defined by Nevada law as “any willful and unlawful use of force or violence” upon another person. (Nev. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 200.400.) A person who uses force or violence against another with the intent to commit sexual assault upon the victim may be convicted of a felony."

"A person convicted of battery with intent to commit sexual assault that does not result in substantial bodily harm to the victim faces a minimum sentence of two years and a maximum sentence of life in prison with the possibility of parole, a fine of up to $10,000, or both. (Nev. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 200.400 (4)(b).)"
source

 

[Krejlooc]

Mike Tyson was allowed to return to boxing after he was convicted of rape.

I'm not saying it's right but it's not that uncommon for athletes to continue thier careers after something like this.

You should not be looking towards professional boxing for your moral compass

And this guy isn't an athlete

 

[kpeezy]

Here's some more info so kpeezy can stop spreading misinformation





source

Here is some actually relevant information, unlike what you posted.

In cases where someone unlawfully touches another person in a sexual manner that falls short of sexual assault (such as groping), he/she might then be charged with the lesser Nevada crime of open and gross lewdness (NRS 201.210)

 

[diaspora]

The worst part was he didn't even take the L, only some shit about alcohol.

 

[guek]

I'm very saddened to see people not reading the full chain of posts. If you do it's very clear I am defending the smash TO's that everyone is throwing under the bus because of their recommendation. I'm trying to point out that what they did is strict compared to other major sports organizations and I'm sure that is where they looked to for guidance on this matter.

Also, http://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/sexual-assault.html

CTRL + F groping and you can see that in Nevada it is not even classified as sexual assault. That is my point, but you bored trolls can quote an individual post or line and use it however you would like, I don't care.

He went back after being warned and had to be thrown out, This wasn't groping and it's frankly despicable that you want to downplay it as much as possible just so you can continue to think you're right.

 

[kpeezy]

Just an observation on my part: You appear to mix up the terms "sexual assault" and "sexual harassment," and suggest that repeated, under-the-clothing physical contact falls under the most mild form for this kind of offense. Are you sure about that?

http://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/sexual-assault.html

ctrl + f groping

 

[diaspora]

Here is some actually relevant information, unlike what you posted.

In cases where someone unlawfully touches another person in a sexual manner that falls short of sexual assault (such as groping), he/she might then be charged with the lesser Nevada crime of open and gross lewdness (NRS 201.210)

any willful and unlawful use of force or violence” upon another person.

smh

He forcefully manhandled her in her shirt and in her pants. Just take the L.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Do you crusaders know the punishment for sexual assault first offense in any other competition in the United States? 1 year first offense is very strict by comparison. Let alone the punishment in the court of law, a fine and registered as a sex offender, no jailtime. This was the absolute most mild form of sexual harassment out there and it is specifically given lower punishments in the courts compared to sexual assault involving penetration, etc.

Gross

 

[kpeezy]

He went back after being warned and had to be thrown out, This wasn't groping and it's frankly despicable that you want to downplay it as much as possible just so you can continue to think you're right.

You're salty af and completely misunderstanding my intent, that's okay though. Seems like very few of you can follow a single full page of thread comments.

 

[mr2xxx]

Other sports I don't think provide a direct analog here. Athletes in major sports are much more in the spotlight. There's much more public pressure for criminal proceedings when applicable. There are lawyers involved on both sides of the issue as there are contracts worth millions of dollars at play. The FGC is under much more scrutiny to police this kind of thing themselves as it's a group in its infancy with no central regulatory board. They can't just look at how another professional sports body would handle it and go from there.

Also, stop this:

Other sports do provide a direct analog. It's just that this guy isn't a Mike Tyson level talent who can be convicted of rape and return to the sport. He's more of a Ray Rice, who is marginal player thus disposable and not worth the public backlash by letting him play, thats why he was blackballed by the NFL. E-Sports will eventually have a similar situation once they get their goldenboy. Didn't some Korean SCII already reach that level? Not saying that guy did anything wrong but he's so beloved he could probably get away with some things and be welcomed back.

 

[guek]

You're salty af and completely misunderstanding my intent, that's okay though. Seems like very few of you can follow a single full page of thread comments.

Your intent is irrelevant, I don't care whether you agree with how the community handled it. You're still misrepresenting what happened to keep your ego intact. This wasn't groping and you're a despicable person for continuing to push that narrative.

 

[kpeezy]

smh

He forcefully manhandled her in her shirt and in her pants. Just take the L.

Are you that dense? I'm not defending him I'm defending the Smash tournament organizers who decided 1 year ban first offense, lifetime ban second offense.

 

[aeolist]

Are you that dense? I'm not defending him I'm defending the Smash tournament organizers who decided 1 year ban first offense, lifetime ban second offense.

you are downplaying what he did as much as you can to make the lack of serious reaction seem reasonable and it's disgusting

 

[Zubz]

Do you crusaders know the punishment for sexual assault first offense in any other competition in the United States? 1 year first offense is very strict by comparison. Let alone the punishment in the court of law, a fine and registered as a sex offender, no jailtime. This was the absolute most mild form of sexual harassment out there and it is specifically given lower punishments in the courts compared to sexual assault involving penetration, etc.

Are you serious? Sexual harassment is terrible no matter how it happens; how do you not see this? And a lot of people here are upset that giving someone a free pass to do something that terrible is an awful mentality anywhere. It doesn't matter if other terrible organizations aren't as "strict;" many people are more than a little pissed about them, too.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't know if any fruitful conversation can come from someone who ranks sexual assaults by severity and who calls those upset "salty as fuck" and posts to "make fun of them."

 

[kpeezy]

Your intent is irrelevant, I don't care whether you agree with how the community handled it. You're still misrepresenting what happened to keep your ego intact. This wasn't groping and you're a despicable person for continuing to push that narrative.

How am I misrepresenting what happened? I'm classifying what happened under the state law where all this shit went down. I'm saying the Smash TOs did their best job handling this.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

It's a worthy topic of discussion but some of the opinions in here are fucking Disgusting.

 

[Dremark]

You should not be looking towards professional boxing for your moral compass

And this guy isn't an athlete

I didn't initiate the comparison to pro athletes, nor did I say anything about boxing being my moral compass.

The swimmer presented in the post I replied to and Mike Tyson are both athletes. I'm not really sure how my reply which stayed completely within an existing comparison was out of line.

 

[notaskwid]

One year?

So he gets time out?

If he comes back and something happens I hope they get sued into oblivion

Sue who? Bear?

 

[kpeezy]

Are you serious? Sexual harassment is terrible no matter how it happens; how do you not see this? And a lot of people here are upset that giving someone a free pass to do something that terrible is an awful mentality anywhere. It doesn't matter if other terrible organizations aren't as "strict;" many people are more than a little pissed about them, too.

Did I say it wasn't terrible? Pretty sure I didn't. Did I say he should get a free pass? Nope. Seems like you need to reread the last page or two.

 

[Krejlooc]

I didn't initiate the comparison to pro athletes, nor did I say anything about boxing being my moral compass.

The swimmer presented in the post I replied to and Mike Tyson are both athletes. I'm not really sure how my reply which stayed completely within an existing comparison was out of line.

For one, the Mike Tyson incident happened almost 30 damn years ago, and society views sexual assault much differently now, where the USA Swimming case was from 2015.

 

[diaspora]

"best job" lol

He could have gotten a permanent ban for sexual assault but didn't. They didn't do the best job they could have done.

 

[stump sock]

Are you that dense? I'm not defending him I'm defending the Smash tournament organizers who decided 1 year ban first offense, lifetime ban second offense.

And you're saying that other people are the ones that can't follow chains of logic?

I guess whatever makes realizing you're a molestation apologist an easier pill to swallow.

 

[Davide]

I agree to get him sued but a lifetime ban is really too much. The guy has still is whole life ahead of him, he screwed big time but he shouldn't get punished his entire life for this

This.

 

[veloxStrix]

I'm very saddened to see people not reading the full chain of posts. If you do it's very clear I am defending the smash TO's that everyone is throwing under the bus because of their recommendation. I'm trying to point out that what they did is strict compared to other major sports organizations and I'm sure that is where they looked to for guidance on this matter.

Also, http://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/sexual-assault.html

CTRL + F groping and you can see that in Nevada it is not even classified as sexual assault. That is my point, but you bored trolls can quote an individual post or line and use it however you would like, I don't care.

Then if we are going by Nevada State Law, I expect we will see Hyuga's name on the sex offender registry.

Oh, and also, going by law, I expect to see this:

§ 200.400 (4)(b) of Nevade State Code
A person convicted of battery with intent to commit sexual assault that does not result in substantial bodily harm to the victim faces a minimum sentence of two years and a maximum sentence of life in prison with the possibility of parole, a fine of up to $10,000, or both.

Had to look through my old books to find it since the internet is filled with rape defense lawyers that like to leave minimum sentences off their site for some reason.

 

[diaspora]

Then if we are going by Nevada State Law, I expect we will see Hyuga's name on the sex offender registry.

For life iirc.

 

[Kthulhu]

I agree to get him sued but a lifetime ban is really too much. The guy has still is whole life ahead of him, he screwed big time but he shouldn't get punished his entire life for this

This. He should be banned temporarily and then be allowed back. It's like some people have never heard of rehabilitation.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Other sports do provide a direct analog. It's just that this guy isn't a Mike Tyson level talent who can be convicted of rape and return to the sport. He's more of a Ray Rice, who is marginal player thus disposable and not worth the public backlash by letting him play, thats why he was blackballed by the NFL. E-Sports will eventually have a similar situation once they get their goldenboy. Didn't some Korean SCII already reach that level? Not saying that guy did anything wrong but he's so beloved he could probably get away with some things and be welcomed back.

What I mean by direct analog is just simply that there is no official body to handle this. This is a burgeoning sector that's more of a wild west. There's no World Smash Alliance with lawyers or arbitrators to consult or even enforce a ban. And the allegations aren't going to attract the kind of public attention that even a disposable Ray Rice attracts in the NFL. eSports aren't really in a position where they need to look to their non-electronic brethren and follow their lead, because they're not in the same position yet.

 

[Sami+]

And you're saying that other people are the ones that can't follow chains of logic?

I guess whatever makes realizing you're a molestation apologist an easier pill to swallow.

^Thank you.

Let's just drop the pretenses and call a spade a spade. This thread is so depressing.

 

[aeolist]

This. He should be banned temporarily and then be allowed back. It's like some people have never heard of rehabilitation.

if it's about rehabilitation then obviously letting him come back should be conditional.

to me though it's not about that at all, it's about sending a signal that behavior like this isn't tolerated and showing women that they're serious about safety. a one year ban does neither.

 

[Kthulhu]

if it's about rehabilitation then obviously letting him come back should be conditional.

to me though it's not about that at all, it's about sending a signal that behavior like this isn't tolerated and showing women that they're serious about safety. a one year ban does neither.

Perhaps one year is a too low, but I think a lifetime ban is excessive. Punishment should fit the crime and all that.

 

[diaspora]

"he has his whole life ahead of him"

Banning him from fighting game tourneys isn't ruining his life, Jesus. It's basic player safety, PR for the community, optics, and a bare minimum punishment for sexually assaulting a fellow participant.

Perhaps one year is a too low, but I think a lifetime ban is excessive. Punishment fits the crime and all that.

A permanent ban from playing competitively isn't a sufficient punishment for sexual assault. It's a bare minimum and is the most realistic to achieve.

 

[Tagyhag]

I'm in the rehabilitation camp.

What the man did is disgusting, and he should be punished, and he should apologize profusely.

But the punishment should not last a lifetime.

As someone who vehemently hates the prison system here in the US, it'd be hypocritical of me to say otherwise.

 

[aeolist]

Perhaps one year is a too low, but I think a lifetime ban is excessive. Punishment fits the crime and all that.

if it were a major professional sport i'd agree that it's excessive, but this is competitive smash bros.

ban his ass for good. he can do something else with his time.

 

[kpeezy]

^Thank you.

Let's just drop the pretenses and call a spade a spade. This thread is so depressing.

You guys are truly sad. I'm saying the Smash TOs tried to make the best recommendation they could, they looked to organizing bodies for other sports and made a recommendation slightly stricter than the strictest penalty they found. I think they tried their best and somehow you think that makes me a "molestation apologist." That's sad, you judge with too little information.

 

[RMI]

if it were a major professional sport i'd agree that it's excessive, but this is competitive smash bros.

ban his ass for good. he can do something else with his time.

this. some of you guys are acting like it would be the end of this guy's entire life if he couldn't play smash in tournaments anymore. I get it he is known in that scene but come on.

 

[Sami+]

Perhaps one year is a too low, but I think a lifetime ban is excessive. Punishment fits the crime and all that.

Indefinite then. If he gets his act together some years down the line and Vikki forgives him then maybe we can reconsider.

 

[BajiBoxer]

This. He should be banned temporarily and then be allowed back. It's like some people have never heard of rehabilitation.

He can rehab, but it's a fucking videogame tournament. They have no way of knowing what this guy is like. No reason to give him benefit of the doubt. Their concern should be a safe enviroment, not this guy's personal feelings.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I'd also honestly like some clarification on the legal definition of "groping." When I hear that word, I'm thinking something more like grabbing someone's ass or breast (be it over or under cloths). I don't really see that it applies to sticking one's hands down another girl's pants, but my search for a clear legal definition of what constitutes groping isn't giving me a clear answer.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You guys are truly sad. I'm saying the Smash TOs tried to make the best recommendation they could, they looked to organizing bodies for other sports and made a recommendation slightly stricter than the strictest penalty they found. I think they tried their best and somehow you think that makes me a "molestation apologist." That's sad, you judge with too little information.

You literally called it "the most mild form of sexual harassment out there."

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's depressing to think that the NFL player conduct policy and state laws on sexual assault, both of which have been loudly decried as historically inadequate, are being held up as the best that the Smash community can do when it finds out one of its own is an offender.

 

[Kthulhu]

if it were a major professional sport i'd agree that it's excessive, but this is competitive smash bros.

ban his ass for good. he can do something else with his time.

How is that different? Just cuz the money is better? Competitive smash is a source of revenue for some people and a total ban could put them back at square one of their life.

 

[diaspora]

Lol, crawling into someone's bed and putting your hands up their shirts and down their pants and forcing your body o theirs the "most mild form of harassment". Smh