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FF XV should have been linear like FF XIII

Honey Bunny

Member
The camping? It was great fun. The open world? it was beautiful.

But it had absolutely nothing to do with the story. This is what makes FF XV feel incredibly uneven - the linear act where *things actually happen* is half-assed while the open world act with zero relevance to the story feels like the focus of the game.

All that effort should have been spent fleshing out Insomnia, Altissia and Tenebrae instead of leaving them as pretty husks to gaze at. But they were probably too scared of another FF XIII backlash, so we got to *imagine* what was happening in these cities - and to Luna - while we dicked around in a field that took 3 minutes to autodrive to.

They made XIII and XV in the wrong order - XIII should have had the lush open world and XV/Versus XIII should have been the story driven, urban, corridor JRPG.
 
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NahaNago

Member
Creating this open world for the trip didn't make much sense since they barely used it.

For the driving to have made sense you have had to have had a large camping like experience for this trip.

The trip should have been the main focus if your whole thing was this car ride which seemed to be what was promoted. They would have had to have created a much larger world and to drive through though. Then again the driving should have been auto half the time with the main thing being what happened when you stopped, camped, or the conversations while driving similar to tales conversation when traveling.

A pure road trip with the story being a weaved into the journey. You could put in scary/creepy theme parks, already had diners, already had the car break down, getting chased by bikers, already had camping, lake camping, Hillbilly enemies, escaping from monsters while driving similar to ff7 bike fight, competing with the Jones, beautiful scenery, and making memories along the way while also reminiscing. Pretty much a family road trip movie but final fantasy styled.
 
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Aion002

Member
FFXV is an incomplete game, the open world stuff is just filler.

If it was a corridor game (like XIII) it would probably be a 5 hours game.

Incomplete story, awkward battle system and uninspired characters.

S-E simply didn't knew what they wanted to do with the game... So many incomplete/useless stuff tossed in the game and outside of it, I still wonder what they were thinking making the movie and the anime.

The open world was the only good part for me in the whole game. Without it, it is just a bad game with probably the worst group of heroes and villains in the whole main series.
 
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Fuz

Banned
Instead of asking a better use of the world...


...you're asking for another shitty linear game.

Walking Glancing GIF
 

TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Man I tried to like this, but the cart parts were the most boring shit ever. What I'm supossed to do during those? Stare at the graphics? Grab my phone?
 

killatopak

Member
It would be fine if it wasn’t just some hunt, hunts and more hunts.

Linear would significantly cut down the fat(hunts).

The open world formula would be good if the content itself is a lot more meaningful quests. The way older FFs have done this is having a lot of towns to break up the monotony of just grinding and having events that are interesting within said towns.
 

Honey Bunny

Member
Instead of asking a better use of the world...


...you're asking for another shitty linear game.

Walking Glancing GIF
Yes please! Make a separate Skyrim wannabe game instead of shoe-horning it into a game where it served no purpose. Who watches the Versus XIII trailers and thinks I can't wait to run around green fields for hours?

Man I tried to like this, but the cart parts were the most boring shit ever. What I'm supossed to do during those? Stare at the graphics? Grab my phone?
You pass the time listening to classic FF music on the car radio, which is kind of sad when you think about it.
 
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TintoConCasera

I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
You pass the time listening to classic FF music on the car radio, which is kind of sad when you think about it.
Ah yes, reminiscing about playing actual good games... Holy shit Square.

Makes me sad because, from the outside, the game looked great with it's fancy graphics and flashy combat, but man, what a shallow experience that was.
 

Honey Bunny

Member
Ah yes, reminiscing about playing actual good games... Holy shit Square.

Makes me sad because, from the outside, the game looked great with it's fancy graphics and flashy combat, but man, what a shallow experience that was.
In the end, it's still a mainline FF game and it still has more artistry than most other AAA franchises put together. I heard all the updates made it more playable if you ever want to try it again. I'm mad at the buckets of lost potential and the braindead decisionmaking that led to it.
 

Doom85

Member
I have many complaints about XV, and while I do prefer XIII in comparison, I don’t think going open world was automatically a problem. I do think most of the world was kinda basic-looking, like only the occasionally spot stood out to me whereas XIII had quite a few areas that looked solid. Also didn’t care for how they mixed fantasy and sci-fi in the world in XV compared to prior entries which handled the mixing better IMHO. If they keep it open world in XVI but make it smaller than XV so they can put more interesting designs in the environment, I’m down with that.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Linearity wasn't the problem with FFXIII. It was the pacing, crappy localization, and overall it just missed the mark despite a lot of effort being put into it as a product.

Still not a bad game, just not a great like many of its predecessors.

XV has a lot of positives too, but again its uneven (its very rough in spots) and despite tons of effort its still not the true return to greatness it could have been.

I quite like both games, and XV to its credit did try a few new things.
 

Outlier

Member
The game is incomplete, the open world is barren of engaging activities, but the real problem is the lame story.

So much potential and they wasted it.

At least they didn't make these same mistakes with FF7R.
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
That game is more patched togeather than frankenstein. A bunch of incoherent gameplay ideas and story threads that are hampered
Due to them running out of time, and likely budget as well. That thing was patched togeather af
 

Ezquimacore

Banned
Tried to play it back then, it was trash. Tried to play it a few months ago, utter trash. A Wii game like Xenoblade felt more modern even with outdated graphics. I remember when Versus 13 was giving me hope for the future of video games, good times.
 
Uh, I'm pretty sure the second half of the game was literally FF13 with a new coat if paint.

All you did for the second half was practically walk in a straight line.

Idk if that changed in the updates, but upon release, the second half was legit a walking corridor until the veeery end.
 

K2D

Banned
Make a new series. Call it Ending Fable or something similarly edgy. Make an effing effort into making it as if your existence depended on it.

Make the production cost effective and focus on what people played the gold era games for. No, not the fancy fluffy cgi. Favor art design/direction over graphics every time.

Good plot, character development, world building, atmosphere, music, mini-games (if they are fun), mysteries and easter eggs, fun grinding, battle mechanics that act like puzzles and make grinding unnecessary if you figure them out..

Edit: gadamn I wasn't supposed to hit reply yet..

Lessons to learn from FF7RE:
Trim the fat. If something feels like a slog, make it a side quest or cut it entirely. (Hojo part in Shinra building, underground research site).
Every NPC unloading their lines as you run past them.

That's it.. Those were the worst offenders from "Remake" for my part.
 
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XV had an empty open world. It was terrible, but at least it looked nice. It was a necessary step for that franchise.

I think FFXV is great, for the record. If the open world did one thing, it provided a sense of scale that FF needs. It was just too much for the team to handle.
 

Kumomeme

Member
no. why you think it is good idea? also they should be 'scare' though because the backlash over XIII's linearity is immense. the linear format also too much on rail with lack player agency. walk>cutscene>walk>cutscene. design wise, never a good option begin with. the problem with XV is the game actualy need more time in development. thats why the world is 'empty', second half become train section etc. it is the team first's open world game too. Tabata know the risk beforehand but he still push the decision.

actually, both XV and XIII should take note at Xenoblade chronicles.
open world/ big open area with linear progression. you can still roam around but main story progression is in linear structure. from another area to another. pretty much like older final fantasy games.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
It is just an unfinished game where the director used bandaid to put some parts together and ship something.

I have no ideia why Square Enix choose a non-director guy to finish the game… all his few games have the same issues.

He did the job to ship a game but what a bad game… I don’t think it was worth of it.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
The entire game takes place in an area that’s like the size of a state park. Dotted with little “towns” with diners and hotels and stuff that are like a few minutes’ jog from each other.

despite being “open world” it feels so small and limited in scope compared to the other FF games.
 
They barely used the open world aside from polluting it with copy/paste diners, most of the story beats happened during linear sections that couldn't be accessed afterwards. Abominable that they would take the time to create that open world only to fill it with repetitive battles and ugly NPCs, the game was a huge missed opportunity.
 

sigmaZ

Member
Yeah. It's incredibly empty. It's a rushed and jumbled game, so there wasn't much they could do with it. Ideally, you should be driving through smaller open world maps for the different regions, similar to maybe Xenoblade or even Tales of Arise.
 

Honey Bunny

Member
It needed to be a trilogy like 13.
One of the rumours was that it was planned to be a trilogy in the Nomura years. Also, that he at one point requested it to be changed into a musical after he watch Les Miserables, lol!
 
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SantaC

Member
It is just an unfinished game where the director used bandaid to put some parts together and ship something.

I have no ideia why Square Enix choose a non-director guy to finish the game… all his few games have the same issues.

He did the job to ship a game but what a bad game… I don’t think it was worth of it.
Yeah tabata sucks
 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
FFXV was like two different mediocre games that had issues for completely different reasons
mashed together as if that would make it good somehow

Final Fantasy Versus XIII seemed like it was going to be so much cooler
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
I agree. Its a road movie. It should've been linear for that sake alone. Its weird that you're transported back to the start for a stupid fetch quest.
Agreed! The road trip thing could’ve worked if they actually, you know, traveled long distance across a variety of locales. Doesn’t work so well when they’re traveling to a network of truck stops and diners that are all within walking distance of each other.
 

RCU005

Member
no game should be as linear as ffxiii

Final Fantasy VII Remake is exactly the same, or even worse and everybody loved it!
The linear excuse for not liking XIII is unfounded. There is nothing wrong if a game is linear, it was some else that people hated but somehow attributed it to the linearity.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Final Fantasy VII Remake is exactly the same, or even worse and everybody loved it!
The linear excuse for not liking XIII is unfounded. There is nothing wrong if a game is linear, it was some else that people hated but somehow attributed it to the linearity.

I'm not too fond of FFVII for this reason. But FFVII does have more downtime. There are NPC's, NPC quests (mostly pretty bad, but they're there), actual townships with some minigames like Darts and workouts. You'll also encounter people who suffer from Shinra's abuse, the desperation and propaganda is felt.

FFXIII has a fully lifeless world, there is almost nothing to see and I had no clue wtf Cocoon exactly is and what the party was doing. The most insulting thing is probably that you actually get to some Gold saucer theme park with fuck to do.
 

Wunray

Member
One of the rumours was that it was planned to be a trilogy in the Nomura years. Also, that he at one point requested it to be changed into a musical after he watch Les Miserables, lol!
Noruma will be noruma but he had the right of it for wanting it to be a trilogy, just thinking about makes me mad how such a good premise was wasted and we now have to wait for KH to see it
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
I'm not too fond of FFVII for this reason. But FFVII does have more downtime. There are NPC's, NPC quests (mostly pretty bad, but they're there), actual townships with some minigames like Darts and workouts. You'll also encounter people who suffer from Shinra's abuse, the desperation and propaganda is felt.

FFXIII has a fully lifeless world, there is almost nothing to see and I had no clue wtf Cocoon exactly is and what the party was doing. The most insulting thing is probably that you actually get to some Gold saucer theme park with fuck to do.
Yup. FWIW I enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII but it’s FAR more linear than any other JRPG I’ve played.

There’s linear as in, all the events of the game happen in some fixed order and at any given time there is only one primary objective. Then there’s the FF XIII style of linear where you are literally running down a 1-dimensional tube for almost the entire game with no downtime.
 

bbeach123

Member
What ruined FF XIII for me is the minimap , hallway was fine if you can give a illusion of freedom , and looking at the tube map does not help .

FF XIII-2 map was way better . But its too late for me .
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
If you can literally just spam 1 button and be as successful if not *more* so than using basic strategy for more than half the game, you done fucked up your game. XIII is a pile of trash and is treated as such for good reason.
 

MrMephistoX

Member
TBH they basically made FFVII an empty open world with nothing to do. I honestly got bored with it and gave up. I think the perfect hybrid is FFVII Remake: I’d love to see them figure out the open world in part II but at this point we’re probably going to be looking at end of Gen at best for that given COVID.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
If you can literally just spam 1 button and be as successful if not *more* so than using basic strategy for more than half the game, you done fucked up your game. XIII is a pile of trash and is treated as such for good reason.

I've never really agreed with or understood this take. Spamming one button is what you do in every Final Fantasy game against trash mobs. Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack. I don't even generally let my mages use magic on trash mobs because it's a waste of MP I might need later on.

"You have to heal, too!"

Yeah, and you have to heal in XIII. In XIII if you time a heal wrong, it will destroy your party in record time.

XIII is more about timing and actual time with it's battle system than it is about resource/MP management and getting to the end of the dungeon with limited supplies. It's a different game than that, and if that's what you're judging it's merits on, then of course you'd be disappointed.

You can beat a lot of trash mobs with Auto Battle, sure. The strategy comes from doing it efficiently. Defeating an enemy that you could beat with Attack in a minute with a Paradigm that allows you to win in ten seconds. Analyzing strengths, weaknesses, immunities and vulnerabilities to debuff/buff more efficiently to end battles quicker. Coming up with an equipment and Paradigm deck to farm Adamantoise enemies (with several million HP) when your strongest party member has 8k. This game treats most every encounter like a mini-boss and a puzzle.

You can brute force the most safe/boring/repetitive action in any game. You can beat your head against a wall and after enough times, it will break. But the notion of "This game is super boring and lame because I don't want to engage with it's systems," is weird to me. It's not my favorite FF, but it is one that I feel get mischaracterized because people judge it for what it isn't and not what it is.
 

BaneIsPain

Member
Of all linear FF examples, you have to pick FFXIII. That's a weird choice and I get it is an NSFW tag now.

It is better than FFXIII imo even though not much.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
I've never really agreed with or understood this take. Spamming one button is what you do in every Final Fantasy game against trash mobs. Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack. I don't even generally let my mages use magic on trash mobs because it's a waste of MP I might need later on.
"If you can literally just spam 1 button and be as successful if not *more* so than using basic strategy for more than half the game, you done fucked up your game." Re-read the bolded part. Yes, you can "spam" the attack button in earlier Final Fantasy titles, but very quickly you will find that you are wasting a *lot* of time. Using even the most basic of strategies can allow you to finish fights in a far faster, more efficient manner.

This isn't the case in FFXIII. Spamming the Auto Battle Button is just as successful, if not more so, for more than half the game. Even past that half way point, you can still freely spam Auto Battle with the rare paradigm shift
"You have to heal, too!"

Yeah, and you have to heal in XIII. In XIII if you time a heal wrong, it will destroy your party in record time.
This has literally never happened to me. There is no strategy or skill involved aside from 2-3 fights in the end game/hunts section.
XIII is more about timing and actual time with it's battle system than it is about resource/MP management and getting to the end of the dungeon with limited supplies. It's a different game than that, and if that's what you're judging it's merits on, then of course you'd be disappointed.
Except it isn't. There is no timing needed. Spend a few seconds in one paradigm, buff/debuff, heal in another paradigm, attack in another. Its the most simplistic and brain dead of the combat systems.
You can beat a lot of trash mobs with Auto Battle, sure. The strategy comes from doing it efficiently. Defeating an enemy that you could beat with Attack in a minute with a Paradigm that allows you to win in ten seconds. Analyzing strengths, weaknesses, immunities and vulnerabilities to debuff/buff more efficiently to end battles quicker. Coming up with an equipment and Paradigm deck to farm Adamantoise enemies (with several million HP) when your strongest party member has 8k. This game treats most every encounter like a mini-boss and a puzzle.
Auto Battle literally defeats the vast majority of the game as fast, if not faster, than trying to manually choose abilities. It takes seconds to set up paradigms and there is literally almost no thought to them aside from a few end-game optional bosses/enemies. We literally have a decade of data on this already that can easily be found with a quick google search and going into GameFAQs. The only time the battle system actually requires thought is near the tail end of the game. That is over 30-40 hours into the adventure and it is *fucking abyssmal*.
You can brute force the most safe/boring/repetitive action in any game. You can beat your head against a wall and after enough times, it will break. But the notion of "This game is super boring and lame because I don't want to engage with it's systems," is weird to me. It's not my favorite FF, but it is one that I feel get mischaracterized because people judge it for what it isn't and not what it is.
There is no point in "engaging with its systems" when it offers a way that is as good if not better for the majority of its run time to avoid them. That is the fault of shitty game design.
 
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Doom85

Member
FF XV should have been Versus XIII. Yes, I'm still salty.

Yeah, I admit I didn’t really know much about Versus XIII for a good while, then I watched a video by Youtuber Super Eyepatch Wolf talking about his disappointment with XV and he went into what the story and cast would have been like. The original male and female lead sounded more interesting than the leads we got (okay, Prompto was decent and the supporting cast were fairly good, but I did not connect with the rest of the main party).
 
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