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Fighting Games Weekly | Mar 2-8 | Capcom does the Monster Nash


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gATwngi9FV0

Wrong D:

Anne I know you are super involved in the anime community but do you play fgs outside of that genre? This is also kinda a question for everbody else ie nrs fans or 3d fans. I can't imagine only playing one subset of fighting games even if that subset is pretty diverse.

I ended up playing anime and KOF because I played a ton of Melee when I was still at school and grew up on platformers. Gotta be able to move around. I like the style of SF, but 4 and xT just end up feeling bad, so I'm messing around with ST and 3S which do feel nice for now.

Why was Samurai Shodown V Special never ported to anything.

Have you actually played that thing? It's clunky as all hell, and if people complain about KOF inputs, try telling them to do 3D~6428+C within 15 frames or something. Nnope.
 

alstein

Member
Plenty of chars don't have complex inputs in SSVSP. Folks seem to tolerate 1f links and they're almost as clunky at that.

And doesn't Gato have frame advantage on every normal in XI? That's how busted he was, and the low tiers in XI were bad by KOF low tier standards.
 
Plenty of chars don't have complex inputs in SSVSP. Folks seem to tolerate 1f links and they're almost as clunky at that.

I don't mean just that, though admittedly Gedo's inputs are in their own tier of masochism and self-sabotage. But the game overall feels clunky in a way that even SF4 doesn't manage.

And doesn't Gato have frame advantage on every normal in XI? That's how busted he was, and the low tiers in XI were bad by KOF low tier standards.

KOF low tier is a pretty high bar though :p
 
Am I being unreasonable in thinking we may not even get a real update to Xrd due to the game's reportedly abysmal sales?
:(

Yes you are. There will be a next iteration and they will continue to work on the game as the arcade system is simple: you take a % of each coin put in the arcade cab so you HAVE to keep improving your game.

Like, absymal in general or abysmal by abysmal ASW standards?

Japanese sales are bad and Xrd disappeared quickly from the famitsu charts. Here are the sales for all majors GG games in japan :



As you can see it was never that good compared to other games but you have to keep a lot of things in mind :

1. Guilty Gear X/XX/#R were HUGE success in arcades. Like any arcade you went in the 2000 had at least one GG cab even in the small areas and cities.
2. The console market is dying in japan. Beastnote is keeping the sales on his blog and it shows something we knew for years: people don't care anymore about consoles and prefer portable devices, be it Vita/3DS/Mobile so Xrd sales in Japan aren't that relevant (and those noted does not count the digital sales).
3. The only fighting games still selling on consoles are licenced games of very popular franchises. Persona 4 Arena and Jojo crushed all Arc games sales in Japan. Final Fantasy Dissidia too.
4. We don't have the US sales but the game probably worked correctly there since :

An ASW guy was in here a few weeks ago saying the game was exceeding expectations in the west.

Since US sales are never public we might don't know the numbers but that's something good enough to keep Arc pushing. And they don't have a choice to be honest, BB is slowly aging, Persona 4 will be over in a few months when Persona 5 is out.
 

alstein

Member
Tekken and GG live off the arcades more than any other franchise.

I really think you see different approaches between the arcade-centric games (Tekken/GG) and the console-centric games (NRS games, DOA, Skullgirls, SoulCal)

I think the games that live and die in the arcade tend to aim for harder execution/stuff you have to practice and chug quarters in, whereas the console games try to aim for reducing barriers and easier entry.

SF4 tries to have it both ways.
 
Tekken and GG live off the arcades more than any other franchise.

I really think you see different approaches between the arcade-centric games (Tekken/GG) and the console-centric games (NRS games, DOA, Skullgirls, SoulCal)

I think the games that live and die in the arcade tend to aim for harder execution/stuff you have to practice and chug quarters in, whereas the console games try to aim for reducing barriers and easier entry.

SF4 tries to have it both ways.

Tekken is actually a top selling game on consoles. Tekken 3 sold 8.5 millions wordlwide (best fighting game sales outside of Smash), Tekken 5 went to for something like 6 millions I think? And Tekken 6 sold 3.5 millions while coming out the same year as SF4 vanilla.
The real disappointment was TTT2 despite his quality as his sales were way below Tekken 6. But I have good hopes for Tekken 7 as Harada worked hard to reach a new generation of players with Revolution... As well as making old fans play Revolution since it's free to show them Tekken is still there and is quality.

Edit: oh and in an article published yesterday Harada said half of each iteration of Tekken were from Europe, which is something rare for a fighting game.
 
And they don't have a choice to be honest, BB is slowly aging, Persona 4 will be over in a few months when Persona 5 is out.

You think they don't have a choice? Really?


Also, I wouldn't really play up the death of console gaming with your post. The end of the fighting game genre will probably coincide with that death. Mobile gaming is taking over, but it'll sooner kill off arcade gaming before consoles. It isn't some indication that xrd sales aren't meant to be payed attention to.
 
You think they don't have a choice? Really?

Arc shifted his business model with BBCS a few years ago. Instead of doing a game and selling it a few thousands dollars they went with Taito on the Nesica X Live to do a kind of Steam for arcades. This way they were able to keep track of the games played, earn a % of each coin and study with data why the game is enjoyed/not enjoyed. It's not anymore a situation where your investment of doing the game is refunded 2 weeks after launch. They recover their investment very slowly but this system permits them to be in more arcades and if the games are successful, they are less stressed by money management.
BlazBlue is a very successful series and Persona 4 arena is the same. Those two games combined with the arcade system gives Arc a continuous flow a money and Xrd has the same system even if they used the Sega hardware (AC+R too).
But BB is coming to an end, Mori is saying it himself and it means that even if the game continues to be played, they will stop support one day or another once paying for support costs more than money earned. It's the same for P4A: they can't support the game forever if he drops in popularity, a thing that could happen now that Atlus is going with Persona 5.

So now they have to make Xrd a success in arcades to be sustainable. I think they still have time and a lot of ways to be successful to be honest. BB is not gonna die tomorrow, they kept good characters for new iteration of GG, they will probably change a few things on the gameplay, make new characters to please the new audience like they did with Elphelt/Ram/Leo.
But at some point GGXrd needs to be sustainable like BB is. Meanwhile they will continue to make crappy games on the Nintendo eshop, outsourcing work like the DBZ 3DS game, etc... Kidooka explained it's one of the ways to keep the company afloat and they need to do that so I suppose the company is never rolling in money.
 

alstein

Member
You think they don't have a choice? Really?


Also, I wouldn't really play up the death of console gaming with your post. The end of the fighting game genre will probably coincide with that death. Mobile gaming is taking over, but it'll sooner kill off arcade gaming before consoles. It isn't some indication that xrd sales aren't meant to be payed attention to.

When/if consoles die, fighting games will move to the PC, which can be consolized pretty easily now.

I think SNK has more success on PC than console already, and I wouldn't be surprised if SF5 PC sales in terms of volume end up close to PS4 numbers (I expect revenue will be significantly more on PS4 though)
 
One button guile just destroyed some dude to get into top 4 at Abuget Cup.

I think half of SF4 GAF could have gotten points at this tourney(assuming we entered alone and not with everybody else). I mean I saw Camera Man's Hawk and he looked like crap and got top 16. Outside of probably top 5 or whatever, these points seem pretty free. 8 through 16 seem like your typical 2,000-3,000pp players.
 

Village

Member
Yes you are. There will be a next iteration and they will continue to work on the game as the arcade system is simple: you take a % of each coin put in the arcade cab so you HAVE to keep improving your game.



Japanese sales are bad and Xrd disappeared quickly from the famitsu charts. Here are the sales for all majors GG games in japan :


I don't know much about arksys games. But doesn't a lot of the fanbase that follow their games like BB more than GG? If that is true, i can kind of understand. Especially for an aesthetic point of view.
 
I think half of SF4 GAF could have gotten points at this tourney(assuming we entered alone and not with everybody else). I mean I saw Camera Man's Hawk and he looked like crap and got top 16. Outside of probably top 5 or whatever, these points seem pretty free. 8 through 16 seem like your typical 2,000-3,000pp players.

Next ranking event should be stacked. I'm curious to see how Infiltration does. I don't think he'll win though. Too many killers.
 
I think half of SF4 GAF could have gotten points at this tourney(assuming we entered alone and not with everybody else). I mean I saw Camera Man's Hawk and he looked like crap and got top 16. Outside of probably top 5 or whatever, these points seem pretty free. 8 through 16 seem like your typical 2,000-3,000pp players.

Looks like I wouldn't be part of that half......
 

Kumubou

Member
I don't know much about arksys games. But doesn't a lot of the fanbase that follow their games like BB more than GG? If that is true, i can kind of understand. Especially for an aesthetic point of view.
Take a look at when the games were released -- the statements people are making about the older GG games being way more popular are true, but they're also from 10-15 years ago. For the last five years or so, you would be right -- BB has been their most popular game and GG is a total non-factor.

Arc shifted his business model with BBCS a few years ago. Instead of doing a game and selling it a few thousands dollars they went with Taito on the Nesica X Live to do a kind of Steam for arcades. This way they were able to keep track of the games played, earn a % of each coin and study with data why the game is enjoyed/not enjoyed. It's not anymore a situation where your investment of doing the game is refunded 2 weeks after launch. They recover their investment very slowly but this system permits them to be in more arcades and if the games are successful, they are less stressed by money management.
BlazBlue is a very successful series and Persona 4 arena is the same. Those two games combined with the arcade system gives Arc a continuous flow a money and Xrd has the same system even if they used the Sega hardware (AC+R too).
But BB is coming to an end, Mori is saying it himself and it means that even if the game continues to be played, they will stop support one day or another once paying for support costs more than money earned. It's the same for P4A: they can't support the game forever if he drops in popularity, a thing that could happen now that Atlus is going with Persona 5.
The biggest issue with the move to Games as a Service is that the per-game fees are just destroying operators, especially independent ones. Networks like Nesica, all.net, e-amuse etc. lead to better profit margins for the network owners and developers, but I think it's been accelerating the closure of arcades over there as more and more. There have been hundreds of arcades closing every year, and at an accelerating rate -- I wouldn't expect there to be much of anything left in a few years, and I really hope that developers are pivoting in response (and there is some evidence of that... but will it be enough? Can it be?)

I do think they have some time to figure out what to do with Guilty Gear, but I don't know if the game can survive in an arcade-only environment at this rate, especially if you assume that the odds of a significant increase in coindrop rate is very slim at best.
 

hitsugi

Member
This is a long shot, but has there ever been interest expressed in porting P4AU over to PS4...? Or is this something where we'll most likely wait for P5A... (if that ends up being a thing)
 

jbug617

Banned
This is a long shot, but has there ever been interest expressed in porting P4AU over to PS4...? Or is this something where we'll most likely wait for P5A... (if that ends up being a thing)

There is a possibility of it coming to current gen because Atlus/Arc has not confirmed how the new update is coming to P4AU.
 
Arc shifted his business model with BBCS a few years ago. Instead of doing a game and selling it a few thousands dollars they went with Taito on the Nesica X Live to do a kind of Steam for arcades. This way they were able to keep track of the games played, earn a % of each coin and study with data why the game is enjoyed/not enjoyed. It's not anymore a situation where your investment of doing the game is refunded 2 weeks after launch. They recover their investment very slowly but this system permits them to be in more arcades and if the games are successful, they are less stressed by money management.
BlazBlue is a very successful series and Persona 4 arena is the same. Those two games combined with the arcade system gives Arc a continuous flow a money and Xrd has the same system even if they used the Sega hardware (AC+R too).
But BB is coming to an end, Mori is saying it himself and it means that even if the game continues to be played, they will stop support one day or another once paying for support costs more than money earned. It's the same for P4A: they can't support the game forever if he drops in popularity, a thing that could happen now that Atlus is going with Persona 5.

So now they have to make Xrd a success in arcades to be sustainable. I think they still have time and a lot of ways to be successful to be honest. BB is not gonna die tomorrow, they kept good characters for new iteration of GG, they will probably change a few things on the gameplay, make new characters to please the new audience like they did with Elphelt/Ram/Leo.
But at some point GGXrd needs to be sustainable like BB is. Meanwhile they will continue to make crappy games on the Nintendo eshop, outsourcing work like the DBZ 3DS game, etc... Kidooka explained it's one of the ways to keep the company afloat and they need to do that so I suppose the company is never rolling in money.
BlazBlue has so many little spin-offs that I can't imagine they'll kill it off. Especially if it's as successful as you say. Maybe they'll resolve the main story line, but then they'll choose a new direction with it. ASW already said they want to try and bring it up to Xrd's graphical style, and there's no way they would invest all that just to drop it after one more major title.

This is a long shot, but has there ever been interest expressed in porting P4AU over to PS4...? Or is this something where we'll most likely wait for P5A... (if that ends up being a thing)
They're making 3D models of all the P4 characters, the P5 characters are already 3D, and I bet P4D will get some P3 characters as well. I bet we'll get a full 3D-ized title for the PS4 after P5 is out, and then they can add the P5 characters.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
Surely you jest jetman. Plus, I play Wolverine, I'm gonna break that magnificent piece of hardware in half.

I've put in enough Marvel hours on Vita to tell you it can take any beating you throw at it. Also, why you mashin with Wolverine? Swiss Cheese.
 

hitsugi

Member
They're making 3D models of all the P4 characters, the P5 characters are already 3D, and I bet P4D will get some P3 characters as well. I bet we'll get a full 3D-ized title for the PS4 after P5 is out, and then they can add the P5 characters.

I would be down with this if they go the (likely?) route of styling that Xrd has.
 

Anne

Member
Considering P4U2 2.0 literally adds no new content outside of what is already on console I highly doubt we're going to see a rerelease with that update.
 

shaowebb

Member
I have a question for folks...what 5 fighting games did you have the most fun with?

I'm not asking which was the best or the most balanced fighters or what fighting games had the biggest scenes...just which 5 fighting games you've ever played did you have the most fun with

*yes Smash Bros counts*

Just idly trying to get an idea about something that I keep wondering about.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
No one is allowed to say Evil Zone. You didn't have fun with that game. That's just your brain tricking itself into thinking a moment of your life that was pure pain and suffering was something else.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
In no particular order.

1. Guilty Gear XX AC
2. BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma
3. Capcom vs SNK 2
4. Street Fighter 3: Third Strike
5. Street Fighter x Tekken 2012
 
Considering P4U2 2.0 literally adds no new content outside of what is already on console I highly doubt we're going to see a rerelease with that update.

Doing a retail release of it that included all/most of the dlc while at the same time offering the balance changes as a patch would be the best thing to happen

Of course, it's so not gonna happen :/
 

Anne

Member
P4U
Project Justice
SSF4AE
Melty Blood AACC
3S

I'm very deliberate with my versions here btw

Doing a retail release of it that included all/most of the dlc while at the same time offering the balance changes as a patch would be the best thing to happen

Of course, it's so not gonna happen :/

I already have all the DLC I want though T^T Shinji lobby avatar, Light the Fire up in The Night, and Memories of You were all I needed >.<
 
Take a look at when the games were released -- the statements people are making about the older GG games being way more popular are true, but they're also from 10-15 years ago. For the last five years or so, you would be right -- BB has been their most popular game and GG is a total non-factor.

The biggest issue with the move to Games as a Service is that the per-game fees are just destroying operators, especially independent ones. Networks like Nesica, all.net, e-amuse etc. lead to better profit margins for the network owners and developers, but I think it's been accelerating the closure of arcades over there as more and more. There have been hundreds of arcades closing every year, and at an accelerating rate -- I wouldn't expect there to be much of anything left in a few years, and I really hope that developers are pivoting in response (and there is some evidence of that... but will it be enough? Can it be?)

I do think they have some time to figure out what to do with Guilty Gear, but I don't know if the game can survive in an arcade-only environment at this rate, especially if you assume that the odds of a significant increase in coindrop rate is very slim at best.

I totally agree. The problem isn't Nesica itself but the prices Taito asked when it came out. From an article I made at this time with current convertion Yen/Dollar to give a bit of info to other people reading the thread:
  • Router NESiCAxLive Hikari : 158,000 yens / 1,307.82 USD
  • Server : 89,000 yens / 736.685 USD
  • Client for Vewlix cab: 172,000 yens/ 1,423.71 USD
  • Client for other cabs : 190,000 yens / 1,572.70 USD
  • Credit taxation : 31.5 yens / 0.260737 USD
The client is the interface that permits you to connect your cab to the server so you need of for each cab. So if you wanted to equip yourself, you had to pay almost 3500$ just for a single cab, and add around 1500$/cab. The investment was huge for small arcades and the credit taxation forced arcades to raise the game to 100 yens or give the majority of the credit to Taito.

But piracy was so huge at that time with arcade games stocked on hard drives that it could have killed developers too. There was no real solution to please everyone.

BlazBlue has so many little spin-offs that I can't imagine they'll kill it off. Especially if it's as successful as you say. Maybe they'll resolve the main story line, but then they'll choose a new direction with it. ASW already said they want to try and bring it up to Xrd's graphical style, and there's no way they would invest all that just to drop it after one more major title.

I agree but you have to take franchise fanbase moving to other games and the lack of new things into account. Doing BB in 3D is ok but if you go back to CT roster and try to sell it again just by saying it's now 3D it's not going to be enough.
 

Azure J

Member
I have a question for folks...what 5 fighting games did you have the most fun with?

I'm not asking which was the best or the most balanced fighters or what fighting games had the biggest scenes...just which 5 fighting games you've ever played did you have the most fun with

*yes Smash Bros counts*

Just idly trying to get an idea about something that I keep wondering about.

This list is going to be so fraudulent given how much time I've actually spent on two of the titles despite liking them, but here goes:

1. Super Smash Bros. Melee
2. Vampire Saviour
3. Guilty Gear Xrd
4. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
(I'm going to get lynched I know)
5. Third Strike: Street Fighter III
 

K.Sabot

Member
5 most fun?

1. Melty Blood Actress Again
2. King of Fighters XI
3. Guilty Gear Accent Core+
4. Dead or Alive 3
5. Third Strike without Chun

Vampire Savior may have been addicting because the rounds go so fast, but some characters get me really salty ( Rikuo, Sasquatch, Talbain)
 

shaowebb

Member
  1. Dead or Alive 3 ( I am huge drunken boxing fan and it was a tag fighter with friends. Dont judge)
  2. Tatsunoko vs Capcom Ultimate All Stars
  3. Smash Bros Melee
  4. UMVC3
  5. MVC2

Loved me a lot of SNK and Chou Climax Heroes, but the most fun I had bar none goes to those titles. Just played them to death with friends and by myself.
 
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