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Final Fantasy is going through a Midlife Identity Crisis - Opinion

Nautilus

Banned
(If anyone doesn't want to read this admitedly big text, I have made a low effort, low budget video talking about the same thing, which is located below)








Truth be told, Final Fantasy has been confused about what it should become ever since Final Fantasy 13. The first Final Fantasy I played (and fell in love with) was Final Fantasy 10, and ever since then, through the years, I have gone back and played every single game from this legendary franchise. Yes, even the 8th game. And even though they all vary in excellence, they all share similar qualities beyond just having Moogles, Chocobos, and a random dude named Cid. As a Final Fantasy fan, I was excited to see what a new Final Fantasy could bring to the table. And then they showed FF 16. I gave the game the benefit of the doubt about its ability to impress me as a longtime fan, but then the State of Play Showcase in April 2023 happened. Now, I am sure of one thing: Square Enix has no idea what to do with Final Fantasy as a brand.

Don’t get me wrong.: the game looks absolutely beautiful, and as its own self-contained game, it might be great. But FF 16 is a far cry from what a franchise that practically birthed the RPG genre should be about. There is a saying among hardcore gaming enthusiasts and modern Final Fantasy fans that goes somewhere along these lines:

“Final Fantasy has always been about change. No game is ever similar to the previous one.”

This, my fine gentlemen, is one of the most stupid phrases anyone who has played multiple Final Fantasy games could hear. Yes, the franchise is not about a singular storyline that spans multiple games, so in that sense, each game is its own self-contained universe, and so it isn’t restricted by any story or any type of narrative. But the problem is that they are all Final Fantasy. They all carry a certain amount of expectation. And for anyone who has played the early games, they know that even if there are some changes to the structures of the story and gameplay here and there, they all retain a singular DNA, which is:

1 - Focus on telling a compelling story.

2 - Deep, tactical battles that focus on the build and strategy of the decisions made and their ramifications in the future, rather than reflex and last-minute decisions, much like a chess game.

3 - And finally, the progression of your strength through the game is focused on different builds you can make, rather than, once again, the inputs you can make at the last second, the reflexes you build through playing the game, or the combos you can employ. To put it simply, the skill comes from being able to read what your enemy is capable of and will do in the future, and act upon that knowledge, considering what your party is currently able to do, rather than building your reflexes to react to an attack the enemy is doing.

So comes the Showcase with an extended look at the 16th game in the franchise, and the only conclusion I could draw at the end is that Square Enix was envious of Capcom and its Devil May Cry franchise and decided to copy it. Because from the core foundations that Final Fantasy had as a brand until recently, they are missing two of them, with the only one that Square seems to be honoring and building upon is telling an interesting story. And even then, they seem overly focused on telling a VERY pretty story, full of eye candies in certain scenes and not having much else, which further puts into question where their focus really is: Do they want to make a great Final Fantasy game, or do they want to make a beautiful game that chases the latest trends?

I fear that the only reason Final Fantasy 7 Remake was such a wonderful and worthy addition to the franchise was because it had an anchor: the original Final Fantasy 7 and the expectations of both fans and developers to honor its legacy. Thanks to this, I feel like we got a perfect balance between taking the DNA of what Final Fantasy is, using almost 30 years of innovation to make it fresh again, but without Square’s apparently innate fear of missing out on potential sales by not adapting to trends and systems that seem more “popular” today. Don’t get me wrong, there is always a need for evolution. That’s how we got Ocarina of Time when the jump to 3D was necessary, and that’s how we got Breath of the Wild recently. That’s how we got God of War 4, and now God of War 5, and so many more. Clinging completely to past glories will make you obsolete, which is what is happening to many Microsoft franchises that failed to reinvent themselves.

But there is a difference between reinventing oneself and going completely the opposite way. Elden Ring was a successful game because of its unapologetic difficulty and masterful craftsmanship in most aspects, but it managed to sell 13 million copies in one month because it had been building a fanbase for more than a decade, ever since From Software released Demon Souls. Dark Souls 1,2, and 3, Bloodborne, and now Elden Ring. Each new entry didn't reinvent itself, even the ones that were technically a different franchise, but they did improve what they did wrong and what they did right. There was an evolution without breaking the fundamental conventions of what a “Dark Souls game” is about. And when they veered too much off the path, they went and made something different, like Sekiro. But Square is squandering that legacy and that chain of events by doing what is essentially a new franchise with a different philosophy inside an existing franchise that already had its own philosophy. Anyone who is a devotee to what Final Fantasy used to stand for will look at this and feel like the company doesn’t care about what they want. And for Square Enix, having lost that safety net, they will basically need to convince an entirely new audience to buy that game because they are no longer catering to their old, faithful audience, instead of making something that would be a true evolution and potentially appealing to both, as Zelda and God of War did, like FF 7 Remake was.

I do think that, without considering it part of one of the oldest gaming franchises around, Final Fantasy 16 will probably be a great game. Excellent, even. But this is a Final Fantasy game only in name, and I am left scratching my head wondering what Square was thinking by naming this game FF 16 instead of just making it its own original IP, which would make the game a much easier sell to anyone, as it wouldn’t leave a bad taste in anyone’s mouth. One day, I hope Square rediscovers what Final Fantasy stands for. But until then, I will be looking elsewhere for the itch the older games of this franchise used to scratch.
 
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Kadve

Member
Final Fantasy has been confused about what it should become ever since Final Fantasy 13

Well we haven't had a proper mainline one since 13 (which was 14 years ago, btw). 14 was a mmo after all and 15 was just versus redressed because they could.

Also lets be real here, industries change. Unless you're Nintendo you cant just pander to nostalgia and remain successful. And traditional 3D JRPG's just aren't in right now.

the only conclusion I could draw at the end is that Square Enix was envious of Capcom and its Devil May Cry franchise

Well that one can easily be explained at least (if not justified). Ryota Suzuki is "combat director" and him not making a Devil May Cry style game would be weird.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Looks absolutely epic to me



Sorry to hear your can't move on from old fashioned turn based combat OP. That's what your entire argument centres around. FF is a high production narrative driven adventure game and experience. Emphasising the journey of a certain set of characters, focusing on themes of heroism/friendship in a changing world.

If the new series visionaries/developers and new hardware tech available means they can produce new gameplay ideas within that framework, then let them instead of holding them back to these archaic whims of what FF is.
 
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Pejo

Member
I think FFXVI's current state is less about Final Fantasy as series and more about S-E constantly chasing western trends trying to find that big "hit" worldwide.

I wish they'd just stick with being a Japanese company that makes games with Japanese sensibilities. That's how all of their best games were made.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Look everybody, we can now see Nautilus' shit opinions on everything in both text and TTS video form.
funny how a person with some of the worst takes on the forum is insulting another guy for having shit takes
Goodfellas GIF
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
Square Enix has a very clear idea of what to do with Final Fantasy as a brand.

That idea is to give it to their best development team, which has created the best Final Fantasy to date (Final Fantasy XIV) and let them go wild.

The result seems to be extremely promising.

There is absolutely zero indication that FFXVI isn't focusing on telling a great story, and if its pedigree is an indication (FFXIV includes some of the best stories of the franchises and RPGs in general), it's more likely that it'll be another hit on that front as well.

It simply feels that you're arbitrarily cherry-picking elements that you enjoy and selling them as somewhat being irreplaceable parts of the franchise. Incidentally, I'd discourage you from speaking for the "Old, faithful audience" because I can guarantee that you don't. I'm seeing a ton of "old, faithful fans" (and I am one) that are absolutely loving what they have seen of FFXVI. Just because this may not be catering to you personally, doesn't mean it doesn't cater to the rest of the fans. Catering to the fans doesn't necessarily mean mindlessly pandering to the nostalgics.
 
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begotten

Member
funny how a person with some of the worst takes on the forum is insulting another guy for having shit takes
Goodfellas GIF

Oh yeah you're the Capcom Sweeper who didn't even know how to make their argument properly with suitable examples.

I hope you've grown some cells since then.
 

Werewolf Jones

Gold Member
After IX when Sakaguchi stepped down with the failure of Spirits Within the series has been all over the place. Yoshi-P is pulling up to take elements from all prior games and meld their best elements to come up with XVI and hire a real combat designer none of that smash X to win KH shit.
 
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Myths

Member
Looks absolutely epic to me



Sorry to hear your can't move on from old fashioned turn based combat OP. That's what your entire argument centres around and it's a weak one, FF is a high production narrative driven adventure game and experience. Emphasising the journey of a certain set of characters, focusing on themes of heroism/friendship in a changing world.

If the new developers and new hardware tech available means they can produce new gameplay within that framework, then let them instead of holding them back to these archaic whims of what FF is.

Only gripe is the lack of contrast, looks washed out and nothing on the particularly stands out. Could have adjusted the lighting and shadows but it’s probably an artistic decision. Movement control looks straight like XIV.
 

Kev Kev

Member
It doesn’t matter. I feel like FF16 is going to be received well amongst the broader gaming community, and that’s all that matters to Square. Nothing wrong with that either. They are just trying to make more money while appealing to a wider, younger audience to maintain longevity for years to come. Can’t blame them for that.
 
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Varteras

Gold Member
Square Enix has a very clear idea of what to do with Final Fantasy as a brand.

That idea is to give it to their best development team, which has created the best Final Fantasy to date (Final Fantasy XIV) and let them go wild.

The result seems to be extremely promising.

There is absolutely zero indication that FFXVI isn't focusing on telling a great story, and if its pedigree is an indication (FFXIV includes some of the best stories of the franchises and RPGs in general), it's more likely that it'll be another hit on that front as well.

It simply feels that you're arbitrarily cherry-picking elements that you enjoy and selling them as somewhat being irreplaceable parts of the franchise. Incidentally, I'd discourage you from speaking for the "Old, faithful audience" because I can guarantee that you don't. I'm seeing a ton of "old, faithful fans" (and I am one) that are absolutely loving what they have seen of FFXVI. Just because this may not be catering to you personally, doesn't mean it doesn't cater to the rest of the fans. Catering to the fans doesn't necessarily mean mindlessly pandering to the nostalgics.

Coming in from the top rope!

VTK.gif
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
Final Fantasy 16 is the best Square Enix can do right now. They put their best producer and production team on the game, hired a well-regarded combat designer from outside the company, used a proven engine, and focused all their effort on their highest selling platform, Playstation.

I think they are doing the right thing, for this exact moment in time. And I don't even own a PS5, so I'm not fanboying over here.
 
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FF16 combat should be like dragon quest 11 combat.

This part may make people mad, but turn base RPG works well for mobile gaming. Which is the industry Japan moved towards.
 
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Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Let's also see what the FFVII Rebirth team deliver and compare after, that team is also very confident with what they're about to deliver.

Yoshinori Kitase
Producer

We have officially announced that the second title FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH will be released next winter, approximately three years after the original FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE released in April 2020.

Three years may feel like a long time for all the fans who are eagerly awaiting the next game, but we want to offer the best experience possible and reassure everyone that development is proceeding at an astonishingly fast pace for such a large-scale HD title.

Making the middle part of a trilogy has its own challenges, but there are plenty of classic second installments in the world of film that are defined by stunning story twists and deeper explorations of their characters. Often these second installments become a favorite amongst the fans.

In the same vein, we are aiming to make FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH an even more gripping and memorable experience than FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE, so please wait a little longer while we finish up.
Naoki Hamaguchi
Director

I am overjoyed that we are able to announce FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH and I feel a strong sense of duty to deliver the ultimate FINAL FANTASY VIl experience to all the fans eagerly awaiting this game.

The development has already entered full production and the team is highly motivated in putting everything together on the project and working to create a finished game.

The FINAL FANTASY VII remake project will be a three-part trilogy, but FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH is much more than just one installment in the series. We are developing it with all of the passion and dedication needed to create an original game and plan to deliver the ultimate gameplay and world building experience.

Trust me, it will be worth the wait!
Tetsuya Nomura
Creative Director

As revealed on the broadcast, there are currently four FINAL FANTASY VII projects being developed in parallel. Although each of the four titles plays a different role, they are all connected through the high-quality depictions of FINAL FANTASY VII’S world and characters. As someone who was involved with the development of each and every one of the original titles, I deeply understand the vision and thoughts behind each project, and I am actively involved in the development process for all four titles.

FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH is being designed so that people can enjoy this game whether they know the original game or not. In fact, new players might even enjoy starting their FINAL FANTASY VII journey with FINAL FANTASY VII REBIRTH. Cloud and his friends embark on a new journey in this game, and I believe that the scenes that they witness after leaving Midgar will give players a fresh, new experience.
Personally feel FF is in the best position it's been since the PS2 era.

FFXIV is a massive success, FFVII Remake project pleasing many and FFXVI looks quite special.
 
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Nautilus

Banned
Final Fantasy 16 is the best Square Enix can do right now. They put their best producer and production team on the game, hired a well-regarded combat designer from outside the company, used a proven engine, and focused all their effort on their highest selling platform, Playstation.

I think they are doing the right thing, for this exact moment in time. And I don't even own a PS5, so I'm not fanboying over here.
I think more of the problem lies on the fact that most modern entries are different from one another. So not only you are starting from scratch every time you make a new one in terms of building a fanbase, you may end up pissing off the fan that liked the previous entry and wants more of that.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Chances are the topic Creator and most people on here are not as old as me to be there since the very first game on the very first day and subsequently mostly all the other releases day one as well.

It's pretty fair to say that the maker of this video could be my age or have a perspective of somebody that's been around to see that there has been low points in the series but it is quite convenient this this video comes out as new footage of the next game comes out which happens to look as good as I can remember in a long time.

I bought a final fantasy day one all the way up until 13. That's where our similarities end. And I can be a cynical as the next and I have subsequently bought the other final fantasies after they were on sale so I did put my money where my mouth is but I'm also very excited about 16. That is something that I haven't been able to say since final Fantasy 12 on the PlayStation 2.

This midlife crisis or hyperbole content makes more sense if this was being made in between final Fantasy 13 leading into 15 where things kind of sort of look the same. That was then and this is now. You can have your opinion but I guarantee you more people feel like me than feel the other way around. I can be cynical every other time depending on the situation but this is not one of those times and I have been there from the very beginning which I very much doubt a lot of people have been that create this content or I don't even know how the topic Creator is thanks for sharing it but that is what the opinion is.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I fear that the only reason Final Fantasy 7 Remake was such a wonderful and worthy addition to the franchise was because it had an anchor: the original Final Fantasy 7 and the expectations of both fans and developers to honor its legacy.
it wans't a wonderful and worthy addition to the franchise though. It was a nomura fanfiction with the worst parts of turn based and action combined together to make a bad remake of FF7, a game which desperately needed a quality faithful remake considering how it's aged in many aspects

besides that though... I can understand where you're coming from, especially after skimming through the showcase and getting to see more of the game. It does look almost nothing like old FF, even with the summons still being there it's a completely different beast.

The issue i take is when people complain or call the action combat inferior despite it being just as valid an approach as any other. or when they lie to themselves and act like the original game's combat was more strategic, even though action games can have plenty of strategy too (and the fact that so many other games have more strategy than FF, like yk THE GOD DAMN FF TACTICAL RPG SPINOFF) that misconception really gets me because ive played so many action games and they can make you think just as much as any turn based game

Also, the idea that it's in a midlife crisis is honestly weird, FF has always been taking the move to a more realtime based combat system ever since 11. 16 is really just the culmination of how much they've changed FF over the 21st century. It has a clear goal and set objective, to become an action RPG.

Oh yeah you're the Capcom Sweeper who didn't even know how to make their argument properly with suitable examples.

I hope you've grown some cells since then.
2 minor examples was all it took to make you get into a frenzy. out of like 10 games i posted in that thread. I can't believe you're still salty about that, probably because your antagonism got you warned for being an asshole

I'd have hoped you've learned to be less of an ass towards people you've never had beef with.... but you haven't changed one bit. Enjoy the eventual ban when you go too far in your rampage to be a dick towards everyone on GAF
 
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Klosshufvud

Member
I agree with TC. I think one needs to make clear; is FF a series or just a brand? SE is indeed using it as a mere brand. Its name is supposed to sell a game that may be great on its own but has little intention of honoring its legacy past some surface level references.

FF16 may turn out to be a true FF game in the end but what they have shown points to the opposite. The combat with its single character action model is simply unheard of in a series characterized by party RPG gameplay. The art direction is intentionally toned down not to frighten western casuals away. The story so far hasn't been shown to possess the more beautiful/fairy-tale aspects of previous FF games.

All this would have been pure speculation had the producer himself not confirmed it already. We can't even call it JRPG anymore because the title would hypothetically frighten western players. Not exactly the words of someone confident in FF as a series. Rather than setting the trends like in the past, focus is as Nautilus mentioned in instead chasing them.
 

Hugare

Member
Thank God that people like you aren't responsible for the franchise

Your 1st point is already ridiculous. You havent even experienced the story yet.

Point 2 makes me question your knowledge of the franchise. Most FF games dont give a fuck about your build or your equipments. I finished VII, IX and X when I barely knew a word in English.

Point 3 is point 2 all over again

Even DQ is ditching turn based combat. Dragon Quest. Pokemon is also slowly droping it. 2 of the biggest turn based combat games on the market.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Chances are the topic Creator and most people on here are not as old as me to be there since the very first game on the very first day and subsequently mostly all the other releases day one as well.

It's pretty fair to say that the maker of this video could be my age or have a perspective of somebody that's been around to see that there has been low points in the series but it is quite convenient this this video comes out as new footage of the next game comes out which happens to look as good as I can remember in a long time.

I bought a final fantasy day one all the way up until 13. That's where our similarities end. And I can be a cynical as the next and I have subsequently bought the other final fantasies after they were on sale so I did put my money where my mouth is but I'm also very excited about 16. That is something that I haven't been able to say since final Fantasy 12 on the PlayStation 2.

This midlife crisis or hyperbole content makes more sense if this was being made in between final Fantasy 13 leading into 15 where things kind of sort of look the same. That was then and this is now. You can have your opinion but I guarantee you more people feel like me than feel the other way around. I can be cynical every other time depending on the situation but this is not one of those times and I have been there from the very beginning which I very much doubt a lot of people have been that create this content or I don't even know how the topic Creator is thanks for sharing it but that is what the opinion is.
Every single time there are new news of FF 16 given out to the public, there is a very significant number of people that are not satisfied with it. Not because they think that 16 will be a bad game, but rather that it doesn't feel like a FF game.

But like you said, that's my opinion. And we are on a gaming forum which is to do exactly that, share our opinions on our favorite hobby. So regardless of how people feel about my opinions, or what trolls may rear their ugly heads, I'll share it.
 

Astray

Gold Member
Only gripe is the lack of contrast, looks washed out and nothing on the particularly stands out. Could have adjusted the lighting and shadows but it’s probably an artistic decision. Movement control looks straight like XIV.
YouTube's compression + HDR handling will have probably made it look worse than it is.
 

Loomy

Member
1 - Focus on telling a compelling story.

2 - Deep, tactical battles that focus on the build and strategy of the decisions made and their ramifications in the future, rather than reflex and last-minute decisions, much like a chess game.

3 - And finally, the progression of your strength through the game is focused on different builds you can make, rather than, once again, the inputs you can make at the last second, the reflexes you build through playing the game, or the combos you can employ. To put it simply, the skill comes from being able to read what your enemy is capable of and will do in the future, and act upon that knowledge, considering what your party is currently able to do, rather than building your reflexes to react to an attack the enemy is doing.
1 - From everything we've been told so far, the story sounds compelling

2 - You get to choose 3 Eikons to use at a time and you have abilities to unlock and upgrade for all of them. In combat itself, you have to determine which Eikon to use based on the enemies and their distance, and what specific abilities to use based on the stagger gauge. That's just a summary of what we've shown so far.

3 - See above.

just making it its own original IP, which would make the game a much easier sell to anyone
One of the easiest ways to sell a game in this industry is to call it "Call of Duty, Mario, or Final Fantasy"

This is a very flawed opinion. And it's not even an interesting one. The only reason people are comparing this game to DMC is because of the combat director. Flashiness, and animation speed aside, the combat in this game is nothing like the combat in DMC in terms of input.

Also, if there's one team within Square Enix that knows what it means to be a "Final Fantasy" or that I would trust with making a good Final Fantasy game, it's CBU 3.
 
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Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
Every single time there are new news of FF 16 given out to the public, there is a very significant number of people that are not satisfied with it. Not because they think that 16 will be a bad game, but rather that it doesn't feel like a FF game.

It feels like your perception is either very selective or you're suffering from an echo chamber effect.

I haven't seen as much widespread enthusiasm for a Final Fantasy game in decades, and that includes most veteran fans.

There will always be some people who believe they know better than developers about what a storied franchise should be like. In this case, these malcontents and irrational nostalgics appear to be a largely overwhelmed minority. The fact that these people exist comes with the territory of working on a long-running franchise, and their existence indicates nothing else than the fact that some people aren't able to cope with the fact that games evolve and that game developers who don't work for Nintendo usually don't try to put all of their eggs into the nostalgia basket. Funnily, looking at Nintendo fans, it's also evident that putting 90% of these eggs in the nostalgia basket still isn't enough to make the irredeemable nostalgics happy.

But fear not, Square Enix is catering to you as well. Here you go.

 
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DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Jesus H Christ. The last turn based mainline FF game came out over 20 years ago. Time for you dipshits to begin the healing process and move on to something else.

The old turn based FF games are completely mindless and repetitive as hell. The only reason they are playable nowadays is because of auto battle + fast forward.

Good riddance. FF XVI looks fucking awesome.
 

Loomy

Member
Point 2 makes me question your knowledge of the franchise. Most FF games dont give a fuck about your build or your equipments. I finished VII, IX and X when I barely knew a word in English.
Lol, you're right. You can cheese endgame in some of the games, but your build isn't that deep.
 

Nautilus

Banned
1 - From everything we've been told so far, the story sounds compelling

2 - You get to choose 3 Eikons to use at a time and you have abilities to unlock and upgrade for all of them. In combat itself, you have to determine which Eikon to use based on the enemies and their distance, and what specific abilities to use based on the stagger gauge. That's just a summary of what we've shown so far.

3 - See above.


One of the easiest ways to sell a game in this industry is to call it "Call of Duty, Mario, or Final Fantasy"

This is a very flawed opinion. And it's not even an interesting one. The only reason people are comparing this game to DMC is because of the combat director. Flashiness, and animation speed aside, the combat in this game is nothing like the combat in DMC in terms of input.

Also, if there's one team within Square Enix that knows what it means to be a "Final Fantasy" or that I would trust with making a good Final Fantasy game, it's CBU 3.
I did say that the story is the only part that they *seem* to be honoring.

About the combat, nah. While its not like action based games don't have strategy, its more like building up reflexes and having to immediately react to what the enemy is doing. Not to say that can't be good, I like action agmes after all, but it's not the "chess combat" that FF used to have, which I find far more interesting and deep.

It's not a flawed opinion. Its just one that you don't like either because you don't agree, or because you like FF 16 and don't like to see people with a different take.

Honestly, I wished that Nomura would tackle a mainline FF game, as FF 7 Remake was perfect. And as having been involved with the franchise ever since 6, I believe he would be better suited to balance the new stuff, with what FF is known for. But it's just my opinion(If I don't say that, people get offended for some reason).
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Jesus H Christ. The last turn based mainline FF game came out over 20 years ago. Time for you dipshits to begin the healing process and move on to something else.

The old turn based FF games are completely mindless and repetitive as hell. The only reason they are playable nowadays is because of auto battle + fast forward.

Good riddance. FF XVI looks fucking awesome.
Wrong ff 15 was atb as well
It was just really flashy. Full on DMC action is just sad for a FF game. Pathetically sad 😢





I’ll probably end up loving it 🤣
 
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'midlife identity crisis'? i'm thinking more long these lines:


& i'm really hoping that yoshida can get the franchise back on track...
 
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Nautilus

Banned
It feels like your perception is either very selective or you're suffering from an echo chamber effect.

I haven't seen as much widespread enthusiasm for a Final Fantasy game in decades, and that includes most veteran fans.

There will always be some people who believe they know better than developers about what a storied franchise should be like. In this case, these malcontents and irrational nostalgics appear to be a largely overwhelmed minority. The fact that these people exist comes with the territory of working on a long-running franchise, and their existence indicates nothing else than the fact that some people aren't able to cope with the fact that games evolve and that game developers who don't work for Nintendo usually don't try to put all of their eggs into the nostalgia basket. Funnily, looking at Nintendo fans, it's also evident that putting 90% of these eggs in the nostalgia basket still isn't enough to make the irredeemable nostalgics happy.

But fear not, Square Enix is catering to you as well. Here you go.


It's your bias that gets the better of you.

There hasn't been much widespread enthusiasm for FF for a long time, because for a long time(ever since FF 13), Square has been shooting to all directions, without commiting to one direction. FF 13 is widely seen as meh, and FF 15 is a mess. So its been 16 years of underwhelming FF games, that didn't manage to retain an audience because it never commited to a style, since every FF since 13 is almost a different genre. You know what audience is clearly still there even if it's been neglected? The FF 1 to 10 fans. The games that had a clear vision behind them, because it had Sakaguchi( in some capacity) to guide it. And every entry sold more than the one before(More or less).

And I don't want to play the same old games I have played numerous times. I want new ones. That's what I'm advocating.
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
I did say that the story is the only part that they *seem* to be honoring.

About the combat, nah. While its not like action based games don't have strategy, its more like building up reflexes and having to immediately react to what the enemy is doing. Not to say that can't be good, I like action agmes after all, but it's not the "chess combat" that FF used to have, which I find far more interesting and deep.

It's not a flawed opinion. Its just one that you don't like either because you don't agree, or because you like FF 16 and don't like to see people with a different take.

Honestly, I wished that Nomura would tackle a mainline FF game, as FF 7 Remake was perfect. And as having been involved with the franchise ever since 6, I believe he would be better suited to balance the new stuff, with what FF is known for. But it's just my opinion(If I don't say that, people get offended for some reason).

You have the same vibe as some ultra-boring dude named "The Truth" who has been spamming comments on tens of Final Fantasy XIV articles across three different sites I've written for in a decade (and many other sites) shaking his angry fist at Yoshida-san and the FFXIV team and moaning about how FFXIV 1.0 was so much better. 😂

It's your bias that gets the better of you.

There hasn't been much widespread enthusiasm for FF for a long time, because for a long time(ever since FF 13), Square has been shooting to all directions, without commiting to one direction. FF 13 is widely seen as meh, and FF 15 is a mess. So its been 16 years of underwhelming FF games, that didn't manage to retain an audience because it never commited to a style, since every FF since 13 is almost a different genre. You know what audience is clearly still there even if it's been neglected? The FF 1 to 10 fans. The games that had a clear vision behind them, because it had Sakaguchi( in some capacity) to guide it. And every entry sold more than the one before(More or less).

And I don't want to play the same old games I have played numerous times. I want new ones. That's what I'm advocating.

Sakaguchi-san absolutely loves Final Fantasy XIV. Chances are he'll love XVI as well. It hasn't been 16 years of underwhelming Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy XIV exists, and it's factually one of the best FF ever made and arguably the best. Incidentally, it's also the most profitable.

You want new games without new things. Tough luck. Developers usually don't enjoy doing the same things over and over, so they don't. And thank goodness they don't.

I suggest playing the many games Square Enix is making for the nostalgic crowd, like Octopath Traveler or Triangle Strategy. Quite obviously, the Final Fantasy franchise has moved on (which is good for flagship franchises) and has left you behind.
 
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ANDS

King of Gaslighting
SEnix haven't known what to do with FF in a long time. The glut of releases under the IP that rarely wow (FF7R) and more often than not just elicit a yawn (more mobile please). They are all over the place with this IP but it was nice, with even FFXV, that there was SOME hewing to what made this series so classic in the first place. Was the "Bro Partay" what people were looking for? No, but it still had something resembling a party based system with a combat system that wasn't entirely combo based and full of flashy VFX.

Developers are doing incredible things in the space of videogames when they actually take a chance away from the corporate limits. You can't tell me you can't find someone in that space who has been dying to bring active time/turn-based style gameplay back to a AAA audience. Action-RPG FF (after FFXV and the successes of your DMCs, GOWs, HZD's and so on on and on) is a quick trend chase that I'm pretty sure is going to be a blast to play, but that moves us further and further away from the whimsy that made the games so fun to play.

Square Enix has a very clear idea of what to do with Final Fantasy as a brand.

That idea is to give it to their best development team, which has created the best Final Fantasy to date (Final Fantasy XIV) and let them go wild.

The result seems to be extremely promising.

It is amazing how much shine FFXIV gets just because it is an MMO that doesn't have a terrible storyline. Like the game is for sure good and the turnaround is beyond impressive, but FFXIV is absolutely not the best the series has had.
 

Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
It is amazing how much shine FFXIV gets just because it is an MMO that doesn't have a terrible storyline. Like the game is for sure good and the turnaround is beyond impressive, but FFXIV is absolutely not the best the series has had.

Final Fantasy XIV gets "shine" because it deserves it. Its stories (plural) aren't "not terrible." They're some of the best in the RPG genre in general.
 

Venom Snake

Gold Member
Square Enix has a very clear idea of what to do with Final Fantasy as a brand.

That idea is to give it to their best development team, which has created the best Final Fantasy to date (Final Fantasy XIV) and let them go wild.

The result seems to be extremely promising.

There is absolutely zero indication that FFXVI isn't focusing on telling a great story, and if its pedigree is an indication (FFXIV includes some of the best stories of the franchises and RPGs in general), it's more likely that it'll be another hit on that front as well.

It simply feels that you're arbitrarily cherry-picking elements that you enjoy and selling them as somewhat being irreplaceable parts of the franchise. Incidentally, I'd discourage you from speaking for the "Old, faithful audience" because I can guarantee that you don't. I'm seeing a ton of "old, faithful fans" (and I am one) that are absolutely loving what they have seen of FFXVI. Just because this may not be catering to you personally, doesn't mean it doesn't cater to the rest of the fans. Catering to the fans doesn't necessarily mean mindlessly pandering to the nostalgics.

Well said.

In my opinion, one has to be careful with nostalgia, because this concept is not unambiguous in perception, as it can be seen not only as a set of certain patterns, but also as their progression and expression in new ways over time. And on top of that, we have a lot of people who didn't have any romantic memories associated with the FF franchise, the way Square is playing it will allow them to jump in and enjoy the game, in a way that engages without requiring a complete change of a mindset.

I think this is the best way to push FF towards a better future, or at least the safest one.
 

Nautilus

Banned
You have the same vibe as some ultra-boring dude named "The Truth" who has been spamming comments on tens of Final Fantasy XIV articles across three different sites I've written for in a decade (and many other sites) shaking his angry fist at Yoshida-san and the FFXIV team and moaning about how FFXIV 1.0 was so much better. 😂



Sakaguchi-san absolutely loves Final Fantasy XIV. Chances are he'll love XVI as well.

You want new games without new things. Tough luck. Developers usually don't enjoy doing the same things over and over, so they don't. And thank goodness.

I suggest playing the many games Square Enix is making for the nostalgic crowd, like Octopath Traveler or Triangle Strategy. Quite obviously, the Final Fantasy franchise has moved on (which is good for flagship franchises) and has left you behind.
I'm being honest. The moment I get afraid(or something to that effect) about posting my honest feeling on gaming topics on a gaming forum that I have jjoined just for that, it's the same day that I'll quit for hanging here. It's just like when videogamedunkey announced when he was going into publishing: Everyone was bitching baout him being a publisher, and calling him all sorts of names. But he has the balls from standing up from the chair and doing something about what he feels strongly about, while the people that keep belittleling him and those arm chair analysts that know better, but never act on any of it and prefer the safety of their chair. I am putting my opinion out there, and not calling others out for just doing that. So I'll never be ashamed of that.

I want new games with new things in the foundations that said franchise has built upon. Like BOTW. Anyone who played that would say to you, in straight face, that is Zelda through and through. But at the same time, it is a new experience. That's what I want out of FF. To feel like FF but still being a fresh experience, and FF 16 is not. It seems that you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Which is to be expected, given how defensive you are being about validating your opinion on this game.

And I am playing them. And they are not nostalgia games, they are brand new games being made in mind with a specific audience. FF has not moved on, it has been chasing trends for the past 20 years, and look where that has gotten them into. It managed to sold as well as Zelda, and now Zelda sells 3 times the amount that any FF game does, without turning into something that it is not.
 

Nautilus

Banned
SEnix haven't known what to do with FF in a long time. The glut of releases under the IP that rarely wow (FF7R) and more often than not just elicit a yawn (more mobile please). They are all over the place with this IP but it was nice, with even FFXV, that there was SOME hewing to what made this series so classic in the first place. Was the "Bro Partay" what people were looking for? No, but it still had something resembling a party based system with a combat system that wasn't entirely combo based and full of flashy VFX.

Developers are doing incredible things in the space of videogames when they actually take a chance away from the corporate limits. You can't tell me you can't find someone in that space who has been dying to bring active time/turn-based style gameplay back to a AAA audience. Action-RPG FF (after FFXV and the successes of your DMCs, GOWs, HZD's and so on on and on) is a quick trend chase that I'm pretty sure is going to be a blast to play, but that moves us further and further away from the whimsy that made the games so fun to play.



It is amazing how much shine FFXIV gets just because it is an MMO that doesn't have a terrible storyline. Like the game is for sure good and the turnaround is beyond impressive, but FFXIV is absolutely not the best the series has had.
Yeah. I can't for the lve of god not understand how Square can't see that, if they kept with a singular visions on what the gameplay, story, structure, etc should be(obviously innovating with every entry), could be more beneficial to them and bring a bigger and loyal audience to them than just keep shooting on whatever the new thing is.

I do have a hope that Square will eventually make a sister FF franchise thaat will be dedicated to what FF stands for. In a sense, the FF7 Remake games are basically that, and I feel like they will keep on doing that, as a "spin off" of sorts, much like Persona was once a spin off to Shin Megami Tensei.
 
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