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"FINAL FANTASY XV: Facing Traditions" MomoCon '17 Keynote (transcript, slides, video)

I dont think the next ff should be full open world. Not everyone can do that well

I don't think the open world design in and of itself is a problem, I think the problem is just that they tried to combine an open world that was highly ambitious in terms of size, detail, and the variety of shit you could do in it with a linear narrative that necessitated a large variety of locations, and that was clearly biting off more than they could chew. MGSV ran into the same issue, of course.

I think that with open world-style games it's important to budget out how much world you have the time/resources to build and then make your game fit inside that, rather than write a globe-trotting adventure that takes you to a bunch of massive unique locations, pray/assume you have the time to actually build those locations at the level of size/detail that you want, and then inevitably panic and have to slap a bare-bones version of as much of the rest of your planned game as you can together over the course of a year when your publisher finally puts their foot down and tells you to ship the fucking game.
 

Squire

Banned
There's nothing all that ambitious about FFXVs world though. It's mostly just a replication of middle-of-nowhere America. There's some grass, desert, a little bit of forest, diners and gas stations - when the design of the world is so entirely dull, who cares how many polygons make up the models?

And then you ride chocobos once and hunt monsters. I guess you go into a couple caves, too? So I don't see the wide variety of activities to speak of, either. Let alone any substantial quest design.
 

jackdoe

Member
I don't think it's about the sparsity of story stuff but more about the game always making it clear where you had to go and what you had to do next.

Take for example when you first leave Leide and go to Duscae. The game tells you to go to Lestallum and speak to Iris. What if instead you don't get told what to do, you just have to explore around, talk to NPCs complete sidequests, etc. Then someone tells you that a lot of Insomnian refugees were heading to Lestallum, so the player now knows to investigate and once you get there, hey it's Iris. The player has arrived at the same point but rather than being given a precise instruction they've had to engage with the world and follow up on things themselves.
Honestly, that sounds a lot like classic Final Fantasy, where what you needed to do wasn't crystal clear and you didn't get any quest markers.
 
I don't think the open world design in and of itself is a problem, I think the problem is just that they tried to combine an open world that was highly ambitious in terms of size, detail, and the variety of shit you could do in it with a linear narrative that necessitated a large variety of locations, and that was clearly biting off more than they could chew. MGSV ran into the same issue, of course.

They tried to give the world a "big" feel, but because of that, there was a whole lot of NOTHING in a lot of that "open world". I've said this, they could've EASILY halved the size of each region and it might've benefited the game a lot more. I mean, you don't need a LARGE world for the sake of giving the illusion of a grand land. I still say Dragon Quest 8 kept the explorable area considerably smaller, yet still gave the illusion that the world was massive. If you could do DQ8's world for a post-FFXV game, hell, you might be able to make it a little bigger than the DQ8's world, while make it smaller than FFXV's, that might just be the way to go.
 

ethomaz

Banned
After read...

I hope he doesn't work in the next FF.

He didn't learn anything with the bad experience.
 

Wagram

Member
Eh, it could be worse, it could be XIII.
That was when FF hit rock bottom and I hope we never go back there.

Final Fantasy XV has a lot going for it, but at the same time a lot going against it. While not trying to be hyperbolic, it was my rock bottom. The story-line is a disaster from both a writing and presentation perspective.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
The way they talk about the game vs it's reception in reality are pretty incongruous. The games best parts are still pretty contentiously argued. These guys are counting wins they don't really deserve to. XIII team was more transparent and reflective than this.

I hope FF15's success was not a greenlight for them to launch games half finished and then fix them up via patches as a guise for "games as a servicfe"
 

Professor Oak

Neo Member
“System Features is a repetition from the traditions that we kept for FFXV, but the identity of Final Fantasy is that all those RPG elements are in place. No matter what, we want to make sure everything is included for every numbered Final Fantasy title.”
So he wants Final Fantasy games to still be rpgs, makes sense.

“The second feature we’d like to carry over is the Action Battle System from FFXV.”
I like both action and turn based systems when they are done right. If Final Fantasy wants to keep on challenging itself as a franchise, this is a direction they should move in. What makes combat fun in an rpg is the ability to grow your characters in very different and diverse ways. If you gave FFV an action battle system the gameplay would still feel great due to all of the thought the player gets to put into on how they level their characters.
With that being said, I’d make it where you can actually fail next time. I don’t need FF titles to be insanely difficult but the balance of FFXV (parry system/items) simply doesn’t work.

“And lastly, what we did with FFXV, the open-world design, that’s something I’d like to explore once again.
We broke a lot of traditions in designing an open-world game with FFXV, and we saw a lot of things—we saw a lot of the potential that an open-world design has, and we don’t want to go backwards. We want to continue moving forward in this direction and it’s something I’d like to definitely put in place for my next FF.”

I’m all for this, I felt like FFXV’s open world (or open continent) did show some strengths. The atmosphere that comes from of being able to see the world and its landmarks from miles away can feel really good at times.
Final Fantasy 15 told a piss poor story but I’m not entirely convinced that this was only due to the games open world design. I can think of tons of examples of ways they could’ve injected more story elements into the locations the party travels too.
With that being said, I’d also personally be fine with a more linear experience too. It all depends on how it’s conducted.


“Maybe one character would have a very traditional means of leveling up where it’s really just about gaining experience and leveling up. Maybe a second character, their leveling up is purely based on how many times they actually attack enemies and how many times they get hit by enemies. Maybe a third character is a blue mage, and they level up only when they learn a new spell from an enemy. Maybe if we want to make a true open-world design, maybe the characters all should have different features, different attributes, and design a leveling system that revolves around those unique characters.”
Experimenting is how we move forward but I’d try this with a side title first. Though I do like that he mentioned bringing back Blue Mages.

"Maybe next time around the main story should still be clear to the player, but maybe the side quests offer up a lot more color. Maybe some are extremely difficult, some are extremely easy, some are very serious, some are very fun. But just giving a lot more variety to this open-world design and really making it feel cohesive is my goal for the next time I come around to making an FF."
This
"What I’m thinking is to really take advantage of the open-world design, maybe the main story shouldn’t always be so obvious to the player. Maybe the player should have to explore and kind of find out where they need to go next. And maybe it’s just the line between the main story and the side quests are a little blurred where it’s more of a gradation and more of a blend, so the side quests are more of an extension of the main story. And so it’s more about the players seeing the adventure through on their own."
Not this, if you want to add side quests to the main story those side quests need to be far better than what we have been getting. The side quests should be an extension to the main story as they teach you more about the important characters and the world. The camping quests are the only ones that attempted this in FFXV. I'd also personally be happier with less side quests.

I’d be fine if this guy works on the next Final Fantasy game, he just needs to work with people who also see the value in more traditional game design.
 

Koozek

Member
There's nothing all that ambitious about FFXVs world though. It's mostly just a replication of middle-of-nowhere America. There's some grass, desert, a little bit of forest, diners and gas stations - when the design of the world is so entirely dull, who cares how many polygons make up the models?

And then you ride chocobos once and hunt monsters. I guess you go into a couple caves, too? So I don't see the wide variety of activities to speak of, either. Let alone any substantial quest design.
I forgot how much more varied the world in FFVI/FFVII/FFVIII looked.

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And how FFVII basically didn't have a bunch of generic caves and cavern too.

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How many different activities did you do in older FFs besides walking, talking, fighting, and going into caverns to do more fighting? If you break it down like this to criticize FFXV you could say the same for the other FFs too. Looking at your avatar, FFXII had nothing besides monster hunts either, and the world wasn't that much more than generic deserts, coasts, forests, caverns, and ruins either.

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There's a lot of valid and very warranted criticism for FFXV, like the quest design and worldbuilding, yeah, but the world design itself was good and there are some really beautiful vistas. Admittedly, it has a smaller number of fantastical, more outlandish environments in total than e.g. FFVIII or FFIX, but it's definitely not the only FF with a lot of more grounded, generic environments inbetween the more special points of interest.
 
Best final fantasy.

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I think enemies level scaling with you (like in FFVIII) would solve alot of their difficulty problems that he talks about. I'd also like a hard mode because as he pointed out, players can just go stock up on potions and almost kill anything in the game.

Heck no.....leave enemy scaling to Bethesda games. I like being able to work hard and kick butt. If you want more difficulty, then don't grind and stock a million potions.
 

Squire

Banned
I forgot how much more varied the world in FFVI/FFVII/FFVIII looked.


And how FFVII basically didn't have a bunch of generic caves and cavern too.


How many different activities did you do in older FFs besides walking, talking, fighting, and going into caverns to do more fighting? If you break it down like this to criticize FFXV you could say the same for the other FFs too. Looking at your avatar, FFXII had nothing besides monster hunts either, and the world wasn't that much more than generic deserts, coasts, forests, caverns, and ruins either.


There's a lot of valid and very warranted criticism for FFXV, like the quest design and worldbuilding, yeah, but the world design itself was good and there are some really beautiful vistas. Admittedly, it has a smaller number of fantastical, more outlandish environments in total than e.g. FFVIII or FFIX, but it's definitely not the only FF with a lot of more grounded, generic environments inbetween the more special points of interest.

FFXV is the only one that aspired to be an open-world game and it did a very poor job of it. That's the difference and it's key.

These are problems they created for themselves. The game didn't need to be open-world, but that's what they went with and that alters the metrics it's judged with.
 

Xadjim

Banned
Reading all these bad comments about FFXV makes me feel I am the only person in the world who genuenly likes FFXV and thinks that it is in the top 3 of the best ff Games made.
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
FFXV haters seem so unreasonable it feels like a given I'll like this game.

For what it's worth, I'm fine with action combat...but bring back classes tho. They've been missing for way too long.
 

silva1991

Member
three features that I’d like to carry over and continue in the next Final Fantasy would be the System Features, the Action Battle System, and the Open World design.

I guess I'll skip the next FF game.

It was good knowing ya Final Fantasy

poP6E9.gif
 
XV is my rock bottom.

XIII looked like a one-off they could recover from. XV confirmed that the teams at Square have chronic issues.

XV finally removed FF from being my favorite series in gaming after 22 years.

Bummer.

As a fan who essentially felt the same about the series during the PS3/XIII generation, I thought XV was an excellent return to form.
 
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