PropellerEar
Member
You were comparing prices of new PS5 releases to old games like GoW on Steam even using faulty prices.
Which is Total BS, keep spinning...
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[Forbes] Sony Should Be Putting All PlayStation Exclusives On PC, Day One
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
- Game Dev Platform
- Status
Which is Total BS, keep spinning...
you did not understand anything I give up
Lognor
Banned
Why? You think PC gamers will buy a PS4 or PS5 to play the sequel? Because that's not how things work.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I would think some will. They're individuals first demographic second
But there's no data to say one way or the other
Last edited:
yurinka
Member
Yes, Tencent is the one that generates the biggest amount of money but as you say they don't own a console. In gaming their main business is mobile. It's a very different case from Sony, where their main gaming business is console, like MS or Nintendo.
Well, Sony outsold MS all the generations, and same with Nintendo -in home consoles- with the exception of Wii (partly due to the own Sony issues with PS3) and seems that now will happen with Switch.
Switch seems to be on track to end very likely outselling PS4, I think it will depend on when do Nintendo release its successor and how fast do they discontinue Switch after it. Looking at previous generations, typically Sony supported their consoles at least 3 or 4 years after their successor gets released, while MS or Nintendo typically killed their consoles way faster once the successor gets released.
Zenimax game units sold didn't achieve a 3%, maybe not even a 2% of the total PS4 games sold. Sony will simply assign the money for exclusives, money for marketing deals and PSN featurings to other publisher, and will compensate it with this, and also with the growth Sony is experiencing these years both in consoles sold, games sold and subscriptions.
They are growing, their userbase wasn't affected by the Zenimax aquisition. They are instead growing and breaking gaming history records these years, which could be even higher if not limited by the chips shortages.
Obviously matters. They have a huge userbase, catalog and amount of top partners because of they did and had in the past, and because they do today is to continue the path set in the past. Their strategy isn't new, they are continuing what they did in the past and iterate on it with some tweaks and additions.
At its launch aligned point of its lifetime, PS4 is pretty close of the top selling console ever, the PS2 in terms of consoles sold. PS4 has the gaming history record -by far- of amount of games sold for a console, and they also have the biggest userbase in game subscriptions and PS5 that is also breaking gaming history records (would smash them if it wasn't due to chip shortages limitations) and according to Sony the PS5 users are more engaged than the PS4 ones.
Sony has been growing these years and everything seems on track to continue growing: once they get rid of chips shortages will destroy all records of console sold. Their 1st/2nd party games are selling better than they ever did, and they are growing all their teams and making acquisitions to make more and better games. They seem to be working on expanding and improving their game subscriptions -so pretty likely they will increase the lead they have here vs MS and Nintendo- and soon will release PSVR2. They also started to port old games to PC, which are selling a lot. And they will start this month to release movies and tv shows of their IPs, meaning they will earn even more money and will grow even more.
Meanwhile, they seem outselling Xbox by a 2:1 aprox., and Switch already passed the yearly sales peak of its lifetime sales curve. Which means that in the following years the amount of Switch consoles sold per year will keep decreasing. So in line with Sony estimates, seems that Sony's market share will increase in the following years, instead of decreasing.
The 360 got benefited because PS3 had many important mistakes, like releasing it almost two years later, being super expensive and bizarre to develop for etc. So it did help 360 early sales, even if launch aligned PS3 did beat 360 and ended outselling it because of having a longer lifecycle. On top of that, 360 got benefited that since every generation the costs of AAA rise, it reached a point where many 3rd party ones needed to go multi to have more revenue. And since many 3rd party exclusives were before that in the PS side, Xbox got many of them, helping them grow.
Nowadays most 3rd party AAA games are multi unless moneyhatted, and there are way more top studios so if some fail can be replaced, so there won't be surprises on this side. And Sony learnt from their mistakes with PS3 and didn't repeat them with PS4 and PS5.
So looking at the past, to their current strategy and their current numbers and stuff in the works yes, the market is predictable: MS will grow but Sony will grow (mostly on gamepass), so Sony will increase their market share lead (specifically in consoles sold, game subscriptions, amount of games sold for heir consoles, units sold by their 1st+2nd parties, game subscriptions, VR, revenue and profits of their gaming division).
Sony's catalog is way more diversified than any other publisher.
Sony already publishes a lot of genres and releases a lot of new IP and weird, creative games. Hermen -the guy in charge of their games- said they wil continue doing so, and that around of the over two dozen games they have under development are new IPs, and that they will continue betting on both big and small games, sequels and new IPs, SP and MP games, more traditional and more creative games, etc.
Regarding MP he said they will bet harder on them. In addition to GT7 of the TLOU2 MP game they also have MP games in the works at least at Guerrilla, Firesprite, London, Bend, Firewalk, Deviation and Haven. Plus pretty likely Helldivers 2. Regarding shooters, not sure if the Guerrilla MP game is a shooter, but Firewalk and Deviation are the guys behind the Destiny or CoD BO games.
Regarding RPG games, they already have a shit ton of 3rd party exclusive top rpg games, and they also have the multiplatform ones, selling more in their console than in other platforms. Don't need to make their own ones.
More or less regarding shooters: this time aren't exclusives but basically all the top ones (Fortnite, CoD, Battlefield, Apex...) have PS as their top platform. So even if they are working on shooters, no need to cover themselves this genre because already have it covered with many top shooters.
Sony expects that some of them will, but the majority won't. And this is one of the reasons of why they make these ports, because many PC gamers (specially in certain countries they want to reach) never will buy a console, or specifically their console.
Last edited:
ethomaz
Banned
Some will... that indeed how it works with any product.
There is evidences actually... some PC users brought PS4 just to play Bloodborne in the past.
I will say most gamers are not used to wait 1-3 years to play the game they want.
The biggest issue with Sony strategy right now is not having enough consoles to everybody.
Last edited:
DaGwaphics
Member
Don't be surprised if the timelines speed up. They purchased a PC port studio for a reason, they hit the times above without that studio. LOL
You can't take the fanboy goggles off. fair enough.
John Wick
Member
Sony don't need to release every game on PC.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Well of course in reality its gonna be higher because of the chip shortage, but I have been talking about RRP this whole time.
And when it comes to PCIe4, it was a cost saving measure for Microsoft, they could of used 8lanes of PCIe3 instead of 4 PCIe4 lanes.
Maybe theres some other reason MS used PCIe4 but as far as performance goes theoretically a PC with a PCIe3 could out perform xbox series consoles.
Topher
Gold Member
Even without the chip shortages, I'm saying it will be higher than what you are saying. We've been over this. Like I said, agree to disagree.
lastmessiah
Member
Yeah, with that purchase it seems obvious to me that Sony plans to move most of their games to PC at launch or close to launch. It isn't a big reach to make that assumption, just as it was hardly a reach to assume that Zenimax titles would be MS exclusives following that purchase.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
They dont need to release any game on PC.
But they will release every game on PC.
You can read Sony's own investor PR releases.
Topher
Gold Member
What investor PR release said Sony "will release every game on PC"? I think that would have been major news.
Seems you’re the ones with no common sense since you don’t get my reasoning.
PC is competitor too. No matter how many excuses people come up with to say it’s not. It has the same games as console does and people can choose not to buy a console and instead build a PC to play those games. A console’s first party exclusives are the differentiator from all other platforms. Nintendo still brilliantly gets this. They don’t even cheapen the price of their games to keep the perceived value of their exclusives high.
Andrew House said the reason PS4 Pro was made was because people leave consoles during the middle of the generation to go to PC. PS4 Pro was meant to stop that from happening
Andrew House: PS4's main competitor isn't the Xbox, it's the PC
"I saw some data that really influenced me. It suggested that there's a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC."
PlayStation boss on PS4 Pro: our approach isn't reactive this time around
Andrew House also discussed relevance of physical media in gaming, following launch of Sony’s Ultra 4k streaming service
www.theguardian.com
Just because the new dumb ass leadership team doesn’t care about console sales, and have lost sense on the power of exclusives and keeping your audience in your ecosystem, doesn’t mean PC is not in direct competition with consoles. It is and it can have affect on consoles sales. That transition during a generation will be heightened this generation since now people know PlayStation games will be on PC. More so if first party games are on PC the same time as PS5.
Sony thinks they can have their cake and eat it too and they’re going to get a rude awakening to a spoiled rotten cake of irrelevancy.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
You cant disagree with facts my friend.
yurinka
Member
Sony didn't say they will release every game. They said they will port some games instead all.
So maybe they increase their output of PC ports from 3 or 4 per year to half a dozen per year or something like that, to have a port every couple of months. That's their plan for now. In 5 or 10 years who knows, they may change in a way or in another, but their current plan is to focus on releasing new games in console only and from time to time to port some old game to pc.
I think that in addition to don't need it, they can't. Even if in addition to Nixxes they get two or three porting studios more (or externalize them) they wouldn't be able to port everything. And even if they could, they would be saturating the market, affecting the sales of these PC ports.
I think they will stick to 4-6 ports (being some of them bundles like the U4+ULL one, one could be TLOU+TLOU2) per year. Something that their porting and marketing+PR teams can handle, specially when in addition to these ones they also have the new releases for consoles.
Last edited:
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Absolutely not Day 1, I want Sony's 1st party dev's to concentrate on creating the best games and wringing the absolute fuck out of the PS5, not splitting resources to create engines that cater for all possible permutations of the PC space, sure after 2-3yr exclusivity by all means sub it out to another dev house to port but Sony 1st Party games should be on Sony hardware first
Topher
Gold Member
kingfey
Banned
Switch is its 4 year cycle, compared to ps4 which had 8 years cycle. Nintendo will continue the switch, until the supply chip becomes bearable.
Zenimax helps MS gain most of rpg fans. That will inflict huge blow to Sony.
lets put it this way. Xbox owns obsidian and bethesda. Both are rpg studios. Rpg fans will go to xbox to play those rpg games. Rpgs studios will prefer xbox console, because it has more rpg users.
The same thing is happening to Sony. MS had japanese support during x360. now most of them are on PlayStation console. And those japanese studios are going to Switch now.
that strategy is worthless at this time. Business world evolves every time. We get new stuff. if a company cant compete with these new ideas, they will be left behind. Sears is clear example of that. They couldn't compete with E-commence businesses.
Gamers now days are looking for values. Xbox got gamepass as a value. Their next big game is coming this November. Other games might get delayed. Still, they managed to get Mass effect legendary edition and hitman 3 bundle on their January gamepass games. Not to mention, they are getting extraction this month as day1 game. All of that for 15$ a month. To consumers eyes, that is a great value for them. We are still in the start of the 2nd year. Imagine, what gamepass will get in 3 years. How will sony compete with a service like that?
That is hardware department. Sony will win that. No doubt about it. But keep in mind about 1 thing. The one that sells your console, is your software product, and what you offer consumers. So far, xbox is ahead of that. Gamepass+xcloud is huge software for consumers. You basically have a subscription model, that lets you play tons of game from your console, pc, phone, browser, and tv. All of that for 15$. You basically dont need to own xbox device at all for that.
We are going in to uncharted territory. We have VR devices now. We have cloud gaming devices. These are tiny things that can change the way we view gaming as a whole. if you told me 15 years ago, that I can play console games on phone, I would have laughed at you. but here we are. Any momentum you had, is being destroyed by these anomalies.
That is the anomaly of gaming business. Business world doesnt care about your mistakes. Xbox one had the tv scandal too. That action hurted their brand, just like how delaying the ps3 damaged sony during that time. Both consoles experience that turbulence mode.
Sony can have all the success in the world. But all it takes is 1 simple mistake, and they will end like x360 to xbox one.
Again, gaming market is unpredictable. Bethesda was multiplat, before MS bought them. At this point, MS could buy any big publisher. They gained 8 studios, and multiple IPs from bethesda alone. imagine what would they gain, from other publishers. Embracer has 86 studios, and 250 franchises. Their worth is $10.75b. What do you think will happen, If ms bought them?
current catalog. Their past catalog is great. No one will deny that. But they havent done those serious during ps4. We didnt even see Socum serious on ps4.
Genre, not weird games. From shooter, mmorpg, racing, rpgs, fighting, etc.
good to hear that.
That could be bought by other publishers. MS bought skyrim. biggest rpg game. They could buy other rpg games.
You need in-house studios, to not lose those Ips. They could do bloodborne type business. Hire 3rd party studios to make the game for them, and Sony will own that IPs.
Same as Rpgs. You need your own series. They have Socum. But they arent touching it for some reason.
To put it in simple way, Think the market like Stock market. It can change to positive or negative. If you dont have any back up plan, you might lose everything.
they will. some of you is better start to accept it or you will look very naive next years
Last edited:
ZywyPL
Banned
Well said. Some people cannot see past their beloved plastic box, but when you combine all three consoles which together cost close to 1500$, then PC doesn't look all that much expensive, especially if you game at 1440p, let alone 1080p and don't need god knows how beefy PC. And then you get free online, cheaper games, M+K, PC-specific/exclusive games, the list just goes on and on.
GrayFoxPL
Member
AmuroChan
Member
I have doubts in their ability to do so. Would I love to see them bring Warhawk, Socom, and frankly their entire PS3 catalog over? Absolutely. Do I think they will? Probably not, when they can't even figure out how to run those games on their own modern consoles. In the perfect world it makes logical sense for Sony to port their entire first party catalog from PS1-PS5 to PC. I just don't have the confidence that they will. I think at best we just get PS4 and PS5 games.
Last edited:
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Seriously? ive stated the specs which would provide an experience similer to ps5/XSX at around $700(with rrp prices). You go ahead and continue to not acknowledge them,you're only doing yourself a disservice here.We don't even agree on what the facts are.
Last edited:
lastmessiah
Member
No one expects anything but PS4-PS5 software to be ported.
Jaybe
Member
I don’t agree. Optimize to the console platform first, get it out in top shape, and then do the PC customizations. I wonder how much of Halo Infinite being a parred down middling game with key features chopped was related to trying to deliver day one on both Xbox and PC. Honestly. Maybe they should have taken their time and got that version right and content complete first, like what was done with MCC releasing on PC later and in stages.
Last edited:
Topher
Gold Member
You stated which specs you THINK would provide an similar experience. So did I. We don't agree. You really need to get over it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol They are literally the only ones who are stubbornly refusing to embrace the streaming model in hollywood. Their results speak for themselves with Sony leading all other movie distributers last year in revenue. Though most of it was because of ONE movie, Spiderman. Still, Disney released THREE marvel movies and they clearly failed to top Sony because of their digital hybrid strategy.
Yes, Sony will release a streaming service. No, it is highly unlikely they will release their big games like GOW, Horizon and GT7 on it on day one. They are making insane revenue from their week 1 sales like the $240 million they made from TLOU2 in one weekend. Thats basically on par with Spiderman's North America gross. Who the hell would give that up.
There is a reason why Phil wasnt able to get third party AAA games to show up on Gamepass this year despite hitting 20 million subscribers pulling potentially $200 million in revenue every month. Publishers of games like Resident Evil 8, Far Cry 6, Battlefield 2042, CoD or even Guardians of the Galaxy. Publishers will never give up that initial sales burst. Will never until MS gives everyone $200 million like Netflix does.
PropellerEar
Member
AmuroChan
Member
Why? I want the entire PS1-PS3 library to be available on PC.
kingfey
Banned
You know some of that money will go disney right? So, how do they lose money on that?
HBO litterally streamed king kong vs godzilla.
At the international box office, “Godzilla vs. Kong” has been a huge hit with ticket sales reaching $342 million. Combined, the tentpole has amassed $442.5 million worldwide. That's notably more money than its franchise predecessor, 2019's “Godzilla: King of the Monsters,” grossed in pre-pandemic times.
No way these streaming companies are losing money.
That is good profit. And sony will generate that. but here is the caveat. They will make double that.
Gamepass now is 20m. lets say its 25m during halo. Average price at 8$ that is $200m. These are from low subscription. Now imagine Sony subscription at 40m mark. That is $320m guarantee every month. You are getting Tlou2 sales every month. And your sub will grow more and more. At 80m sub that is $640m every month. Or $7.680b for 1 year. That is just from subs alone. Not from game sales, not from mtx. Just subs.
If you are Sony executive, and you see these numbers. would you for it? They can literally fund themselves.
Hello, stalker 2? MLB the show? Hitman 3 bundle? Extraction? Mass effect legendary edition?
Gamepass is still baby. Once that sub hits 30m mark, expect big targets to hit the sub.
lastmessiah
Member
It would be too heavy of a workload and would probably stir up resentment about BC on consoles and all that jazz. Maybe a few classics like MGS4 would get ported, but the entire catalog? I seriously doubt it.
iHaunter
Member
Somehow the Forbes writers are also sheep. Nintendo get a pass for everything. No matter how shitty their hardware, software, or policies are.
John Wick
Member
It won't. The PS5 and SX aren't even being utilized yet properly with most games being crossgen. They will both get much better when developers target their specs properly. Even now a PC can't load games in 2-3 secs.
DaGwaphics
Member
Anything cross-gen is 10x more anchored by the last-gen consoles than it ever could be by PC. I think MS just gets the PC version for free just about because the tools used for Xbox are the same as those running the games on PC. MS hasn't been doing much in the way of PC-centric enhancements (DLSS support, etc.) on their PC releases, with PC just loosing the optimization that comes with the standardized hardware on Xbox.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I am glad someone pulled up this quote. I have been referring to it for some time now. It clearly shows how different this new Sony management has become compared to the previous Sony admins who realized that the console business literally revolves around keeping users in your eco system.Seems you’re the ones with no common sense since you don’t get my reasoning.
PC is competitor too. No matter how many excuses people come up with to say it’s not. It has the same games as console does and people can choose not to buy a console and instead build a PC to play those games. A console’s first party exclusives are the differentiator from all other platforms. Nintendo still brilliantly gets this. They don’t even cheapen the price of their games to keep the perceived value of their exclusives high.
Andrew House said the reason PS4 Pro was made was because people leave consoles during the middle of the generation to go to PC. PS4 Pro was meant to stop that from happening
Andrew House: PS4's main competitor isn't the Xbox, it's the PC
"I saw some data that really influenced me. It suggested that there's a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC."
PlayStation boss on PS4 Pro: our approach isn't reactive this time around
Andrew House also discussed relevance of physical media in gaming, following launch of Sony’s Ultra 4k streaming service
Just because the new dumb ass leadership team doesn’t care about console sales, and have lost sense on the power of exclusives and keeping your audience in your ecosystem, doesn’t mean PC is not in direct competition with consoles. It is and it can have affect on consoles sales. That transition during a generation will be heightened this generation since now people know PlayStation games will be on PC. More so if first party games are on PC the same time as PS5.
Sony thinks they can have their cake and eat it too and they’re going to get a rude awakening to a spoiled rotten cake of irrelevancy.
Jim and Herman release maybe 2 first party games a year. Jim said he wants his games to be played by hundreds of millions of people. Herman said he loves PC gamers. Thats great talk if you are a third party publisher who do nothing but publish third party games, but these guys over at Sony studios struggle to put out a game every five years. Sony published Ratchet and Returnal as their two big games. Ratchet sold 1 million. Returnal limped to 500k after a few months. Assuming they both doubled their sales by the end of the year, you are looking at $200 million revenue. Thats pennies compared to the $25 billion they generated last year.
Now Horizon, GOW and GT7 are sure to sell a lot more, but even if they get to $1 billion in first party revenue that is still only a fraction of their yearly revenue. And they have nothing lined up for nothing year aside from Spiderman which is probably going to get delayed. It is a NOT a good service model to put all your hopes in one game a year and then sacrifice the core pillars of your primary console business.
Me personally? Ive always built PCs going back to 2003 when I first saw Half Life 2. Before it got delayed. I then built a PC in 2011. The Pro delayed my purchase by a couple of years but RTX cards pretty much forced my hand and i bought one in 2019. But still bought my consoles on day one. This time, I only bought the PS5. Phil gave me zero reasons to upgrade over my 2080. And Jim is following the same path. No way in hell am I buying mid gen upgrades. I will just pick up a GPU when i can and quit console gaming forever.
John Wick
Member
How many have they managed so far then?
I think they said it would be on a game by game basis. I can see the big titles coming out a year later but titles like Knack may never get ported.
they will 100% lol ..the only one who refusing to see the next step are stubborn fanboys.
[/QUOTE]
Selling Knack 2 years later after its release again on PC for 49 euro? hahahah yeah
lots of sales for sure
Last edited:
and this mean he known something ..here we go
PropellerEar
Member
Spinning faster and faster...MonarchJT said:Selling Knack 2 years later after its release again on PC for 49 euro? hahahah yeah
DaGwaphics
Member
How split is your gaming between PS5 and 2080? Most with a 2080 or going to play all the multi-plats on that, and most of the mult-player since online play is free.
That's the misconception (that users willing to spend the $$$ on a good gaming PC are going to be the same kind of customers for Sony as those that do all their gaming on console). I would say that a strong number of PC first gamers that also have a PS console use it for nothing but a handful of exclusives.
Last edited:
John Wick
Member
Hahahahaha!
They have managed 6 so far. Who do you think is gonna port every Sony published game? They haven't got the resources or time to do it. They will port like 6-7 big games a year.
John Wick
Member
It's roughly about $1250 for all 3 consoles. You can play all three at the same time. Can you do that on PC? Also one of them is portable. Can you lug your PC around and play it on the train?
DaGwaphics
Member
How many titles do Sony studios release in a year? If they can port 6 or 7 games a year it seems like they'd have too much capacity as it is.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It doesnt matter what revenue sharing deal they have with disney for Spiderman. Kevin Feige making Spiderman has nothing to do with digital vs theatrical only strategies. Sony could have gone with a digital hybrid solution but they didnt. And lets not even bring up WB movies, they literally finished dead last last year and have refused to release any HBO numbers.
Getting 40 million PS+ subs took Sony 10+ years. Gamepass has been around since 2017 and after five years its now at 20 million subs. Sony will lose money when they start out. Surely. Just like MS did. MS was no longer selling 3 million copies of Gears and Halo in the first month like they used to so it was easy for them to swallow that loss. It wont be easy for Sony to do the same. Spiderman is the perfect example. They didnt do a digital release for spiderman with a fucking pandemic ravaging through the entire planet, why would they do it just so they can one day have 40 million subscribers?
Stalker 2 didnt even come out last year. MLB isnt AAA. Hitman didnt launch on Gamepass. Mass Effect didnt launch on Gamepass. Surely this thread is about Day one sales, right?
I mean surely the fact that B games like Hitman 3 and remasters like ME not launching day one on Gamepass proves my point, no? Seeing as how they eventually came to gamepass proves that MS was interested and still couldnt convince these publishers to give the day one revenue.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I saw Jackfrags boasting about the GOW graphics on PC on his stream title yesterday. Something along the lines of GOW on PC looks AMAZING. I am like its literally identical save for some high res shadows. Wait till they play TLOU2 and Uncharted.Not seen the customary Drake meme in this thread.....
i didn't say every published game (in the past)....they will develop next batch of exclusives (or next next) but the time of complete exclusivity for playstation is arriving to the end line. That's it
- Status