• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Former Employees Explain Reasons Why Valve Releases Games So Rarely

SaintALia

Member
"Ex-employee on reasons why .... sure are a lot of white white males. Maybe it's their bigoted voting."

Yes. It's a hit piece.
So you ARE saying the two sentences in an article(which the employees themselves pointed out) count as a 'hit piece'? Is this a serious comment or troll?

The article pointed out there being a lack of diversity in literally two sentences, never expounds on it or goes beyond that, and immediately in your mind it counts as a hit piece? Like nothing else in the article mattered to you, just those two sentences?

It's not even like the article used that in the beginning to extrapolate a broader problem in the company itself(that point is dropped and it instead focuses on the idea of a flat hierarchy, NOT diversity, as the issue, the diversity issue seems to be relegated to 'symptom').
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
So you ARE saying the two sentences in an article(which the employees themselves pointed out) count as a 'hit piece'? Is this a serious comment or troll?

The article pointed out there being a lack of diversity in literally two sentences, never expounds on it or goes beyond that, and immediately in your mind it counts as a hit piece? Like nothing else in the article mattered to you, just those two sentences?

It's not even like the article used that in the beginning to extrapolate a broader problem in the company itself(that point is dropped and it instead focuses on the idea of a flat hierarchy, NOT diversity, as the issue, the diversity issue seems to be relegated to 'symptom').
There is no reason to include that unless you want select readers to draw correlation in the current culture war.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Valve currently has 2 of the most popular video games on planet Earth, released a groundbreaking game that is still the best example of VR, and oh yea changed PC gaming with the Steam Deck.

If that is failure then what does that say about the rest of the industry?
I don't think it's a matter of failure, but inefficiency. There are people who go to Valve, work on stuff for 8 years and leave and never worked on one product that shipped. There's something downright Sisyphean about that, no?

There's clearly a lot of dysfunction at Valve, but they have unlimited resources due to Steam's near monopoly on the PC games market so it all works out.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Lol, 'culture war'. Yeah okay sure man, believe whatever you want to believe, and sorry if this feels condescending, but yeah.
screamqueensedit GIF
 

SaintALia

Member
I don't think it's a matter of failure, but inefficiency. There are people who go to Valve, work on stuff for 8 years and leave and never worked on one product that shipped. There's something downright Sisyphean about that, no?

There's clearly a lot of dysfunction at Valve, but they have unlimited resources due to Steam's near monopoly on the PC games market so it all works out.
Yeah, they don't have to take any chances, so they don't, they just play it safe and make money is what I feel.

Could be worse tho, it's not like EA or UBI who's like a dragon sleeping on a vast pile of IP gold and not letting any of it go. A chalice or a a jewel may drop off every once in a while, but a lot of those IP are pretty much gone....unless resurrected as an 'infinite money machine'(gacha laden lootbox fare) or maybe, maybe, a remake/remaster if we're lucky.

A HL/HL2 remake box set would pretty sweet come to think of it.
 

SaiyanRaoh

Member
majority of employees being white and male.
Then so be it. Quit hiring people that aren't qualified but can fill some sort of fucking quota. If a QUALIFIED person of color applied for work there, especially these days, I'm sure they'd have the job. If my black ass applied there as an online systems engineer or something, I wouldn't expect the job because I don't know crap about the position. Only an asshole would think I'm entitled to that job because.... reasons.
 
Last edited:

Drew1440

Member
So a couple of white guys made Alyx, one of the most recognizable Non white protagonists in gaming, that’s the daughter of Eli Vance, who is one of the smartest Drs in the gaming world thats non white, Several years like two decades now, ago, when people really didn’t focus on diversity in games.… but are today extremely recognizable by everybody. Where is the credit they are due for that?
This, and both Left 4 Dead games have diverse playable characters.
 

daveonezero

Banned
Hav
This is literally an article discussing the merits of organizational structures. I get that most people have probably never read it, but sociologists broke down the massive benefits of bureaucracy since the 1800s, namely increased specialization and efficiency, clarity of roles. All of that is lacking at Valve. In its place is a "Lord of the Flies" voting system. Lord of the Flies is a reference for full breakdown of team structure, constant suspicion and animosity, constant jockeying for rank over trivial and inconsequential things, and the loudest and most popular rising to the top, not necessarily the most qualitied. It's the total breakdown of merit-based assessment. It's raw tribalism.

Other companies have different flaws.
Have you ever played a competitive team sport on a successful team?

Being more concerned of the structure or a company, fairness and HR bullshit is the problem with most other companies.

You lose the reason the company is successful in the first place.
 

Crayon

Member
Because you'd have to assume that every single employee is 100% bias free, implicitly and subconsciously, and voting only based purely on merit. I think that's incredibly naïve. Racism can often be overblown, but this voting system will of course alienate minorities who are outnumbered. Probably a large part of why they leave the company. Cliques literally decide the promotions and salary. I can't imagine anything more toxic.

That will cut both ways. I take diversity into consideration when I hire. Not because I'm forced to and I don't take anyone sub par. So you could say I have a bias towards diversity, even though it's a periphery consideration. So yeah that can go either way.
 

The Alien

Banned
Uhhhh. I'm gonna day no. At this point diversity is the problem for everything. It's a knee-jerk, buzz word losing all meaning atbthis point.

The reason why they ain't releasing games is they've shifted to Steam distribution. They make bundles of more money distributing other's games with significantly less cost up front and almost zero risk. It's an amazing business model....far greater than game development (4 year development, significant resourcing, high risk of failure). Valzlve could spend 4 years making HL3 and itd be awesome, utbut if it doesn't sell 15 million copies...its a failure and staff are let go, etc.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Have you ever played a competitive team sport on a successful team?

Being more concerned of the structure or a company, fairness and HR bullshit is the problem with most other companies.

You lose the reason the company is successful in the first place.
Exactly.

Given a budget, sports execs try to build the best team they can filling all the player positions. Funny how in sports, forcing diverse people (skin, age, religion etc...) is something that can be totally ignored as it's all about talent and performance for that salary.

How often have you ever seen people say... that team sucks because it has too many white people or black people on it? Or, hey we need more minorities. So move over whities and black dudes, were doing a special hiring practice injecting some Indian and Asian people to balance it out. Never.

But for 9-5 jobs, suddenly it's not about performance but politics and quotas to hit some subjective employment demographic rate.

Weird people. But I totally get it. Bottom feeders need a way to get better jobs. They cant get one based on their resume or interviewing skills, so they complain about discriminatory hiring practices trying to force their way in.
 

daveonezero

Banned
Valve is a unicorn company that is both privately-owned and has a steady (and HUGE) revenue stream that subsidizies what is essentially an experimental org structure.

If it didn't have both of those characteristics, it would collapse or be quickly restructured. Fascinating stuff.
Or it is successful and hit those things because it is like that.

It’s basically a company that came from developers working in their garage and carried that structure to its current levels. Like a bunch of garage projects.

Exactly.

Given a budget, sports execs try to build the best team they can filling all the player positions. Funny how in sports, forcing diverse people (skin, age, religion etc...) is something that can be totally ignored as it's all about talent and performance for that salary.

How often have you ever seen people say... that team sucks because it has too many white people or black people on it? Or, hey we need more minorities. So move over whities and black dudes, were doing a special hiring practice injecting some Indian and Asian people to balance it out. Never.

But for 9-5 jobs, suddenly it's not about performance but politics and quotas to hit some subjective employment demographic rate.

Weird people. But I totally get it. Bottom feeders need a way to get better jobs. They cant get one based on their resume or interviewing skills, so they complain about discriminatory hiring practices trying to force their way in.
And the academia has given them some false sense of entitlement. All the degrees and universities telling kids that go to college who make literally nothing that they are somehow special. And are owed something when they leave.

They get to the real world and apply this unreal world view on others like it is going to lead to some sort of progress.

The politics, race and other things are just superficial boxes that are easy for them to identify.
 
Last edited:

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
For you numbers geeks, what I found doing google searches is Valve was projected to be $8.7B in sales. So if their cut is 30%, youre talking about $2.9B in royalty cuts for the company. I think the company gives games royalty deals if a big seller hits a certain threshold.

For sake of argument let's just round down to $2.5B.

It also has up to 500 employees. In 2016 it was 360, their Linkedin profile says 200-500. Lets assume they maxed out at 500 people in 2022.

$2.5B revenue / 500 employees = $5M revenue/employee. Yes, they surely got some contract workers not part of the official employee count (every company has a certain amount of contract workers, mine does too). But that's still a lot of money for a company with so few people. Their server costs are surely a lot with all the downloading (I have no clue how much server farms and maintaining an e-store costs), but the company has to got be super profitable at the end of the day.


First released in 2003 by Valve Corporation, Steam is one of the leading PC gaming platforms for gamers across the world. In 2021, it was estimated that platform sales accounted for 74.4 percent of Steam's gaming revenues, with in-game microtransactions making up the remaining 25.6 percent. Steam's digital game sales are projected to amount to more than 8.7 billion U.S. dollars in revenues in 2022.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
And the academia has given them some false sense of entitlement. All the degrees and universities telling kids that go to college who make literally nothing that they are somehow special. And are owed something when they leave.

They get to the real world and apply this unreal world view on others like it is going to lead to some sort of progress.

The politics, race and other things are just superficial boxes that are easy for them to identify.
The funny thing is I took business. And no matter how many text books and group case studies I did almost none of applied to the real world. The only courses which did actually apply pretty close to real world starter jobs were accounting classes where all the debits/credits and financial sheets are pretty close to the real thing, except real ones are way more detailed. But close enough.

All the sales and marketing courses I took focus on really old school concepts of satisfying needs and shit, but once you work at a corporation a lot of that shit gets thrown out the window. Unless business class changed a lot the past 20-30 years, what it lacks is the real life variables of someone (customer or head office buyer) countering what you got which makes that nicely written essay useless no matter how well it solves the textbook 4 P's.

I remember maximizing revenue using X/Y charts. Looks good on paper. But if the grumpy buyer at Walmart head office says fuck you, I'll only order it if you drop the price $5 then what are you going to do? lol
 
Last edited:
"I'm sorry, we can't vote or promote you. Yes, you check all the talent boxes, your skillset is second to none, beyond most even... you're just, you're just too white and we have to have artificial quotas for those who project their own perceived bigotry."

This voting system happens in Whole Foods as well. Many large corporations do it, with cliques. In Whole Foods case, it's monthly bonus sharing amongst a select few employees. Most being blue hair cliques with their HR patsy on the take.

in 2019, whole foods conducted a study for amazon which concluded that diverse workplaces were much less likely to unionize or organize on their own behalf, therefore diversity is extremely useful for corporate structures.

funny, that.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
in 2019, whole foods conducted a study for amazon which concluded that diverse workplaces were much less likely to unionize or organize on their own behalf, therefore diversity is extremely useful for corporate structures.

funny, that.
It is, innit. Wave some segregating diversity flags around to hypnotize them as well.
 

Filben

Member
I haven't read any reasons as to why they rarely release games.

Anyways, they don't have to. They do pretty well despite the "chaos" and non-diversity. I know that some people like to change things just for the sake of it or to put another label on it and I think we know these kind of people. But sometimes it's simply not necessary. Also given the environment you'll find yourself as developer these days, I'd think twice before developing a game. Gamers can be pretty shitty and even more vocal about it thanks to modern tech.

One could even argue the whole human desire for progression and improvement, and the lack of modesty and content. It's simply never enough. It always has to be more. And this mentality can cause serious stress and other issues.

Just let them do their thing. They seem doing pretty well as far as I can judge.

I'd be much more worried if I was Ubisoft. Also diversity didn't stop the CEO from being a cunt and the studio not hitting the numbers they wanted to.
 

daveonezero

Banned
Normally I'd say yes, but if you have to literally get evaluated by everyone in the company and everyone is voting on your salary, the demographics actually do come into play in bias and advancement.
So you want an impersonal KPI HR ran business except for things that don’t matter. This is a horrible way to run anything’s. See all other tech companies and most of Silicon Valley.

I personally find Valves business and non structure fascinating.

It isn’t like Lord of the Flies it is more like a voluntary Sunday market with no real leadership. And open space where individuals can leave projects as they see fit. It’s very cool for such a large company.

Booths or projects come and go but it seems like things are still getting done. The contributions they have made to Linux are never going to see returns but it has a large impact breaking up the MS Apple ecosystems.

Obviously this is only parts of the company. There are some that are probably very stable eg store, servers, etc but I’m sure you learn a lot working there and exploring interests and learning from others.
 

Ozzie666

Member
I don't think anyone sensible really considers them as a software developer anymore. Games are a side hustle for them and a bonus at this point. They literally print money with steam. How much money, I have no idea. But I know Valve and steam are the envy of most big companies who would buy them in a heartbeat. They are a truly unique company chasing some wild dreams and succeeding. Whatever they are doing is working well. I get the impression they are very comfortable with their profits, so much so, they can do crazy stuff.
 

Crayon

Member
They seem to do more than any other game company from where I'm standing. A lot of it more important than pumping out games. They did make alyx though, probably the most important game since it came out.

It's been 15 fucking years since valve just made games as their main business. At some point you need to let it go and see they are on to bigger things. You can play windows games without windows now. That is a monumental acheivement on it's own.
 
Last edited:

diffusionx

Gold Member
So you ARE saying the two sentences in an article(which the employees themselves pointed out) count as a 'hit piece'? Is this a serious comment or troll?

The article pointed out there being a lack of diversity in literally two sentences, never expounds on it or goes beyond that, and immediately in your mind it counts as a hit piece? Like nothing else in the article mattered to you, just those two sentences?

It's not even like the article used that in the beginning to extrapolate a broader problem in the company itself(that point is dropped and it instead focuses on the idea of a flat hierarchy, NOT diversity, as the issue, the diversity issue seems to be relegated to 'symptom').

Does a company exist to make money, grow, and achieve success, or to give employees a working environment and culture they like? I think most people would say the former but the Schreier types in the videogame writing business seem to believe the latter - that companies exist to give their workers sinecure and comfort. Problem is, Valve is just, objectively speaking, one of the most influential and successful video game companies in the history of the industry. It’s reasonable to say their success and their structure are linked.

So we need to take a step back. Some people actually thrive in the sort of operation Valve has. Clearly, those are the people who Newell wants on staff because it’s his company and the culture he set up within it. And look what they have done.

This is like some ESPN article comes out after a coach wins the Super Bowl and people complain he is mean to players. At some point the ends justify the means.
 
Last edited:
How long is a dev cycle? Sony to release a game that was almost the same just more beautiful and a new weapon took 5 years to release God of War. One of the biggest companies in the world took 6 years to release a game called Hallo that was not even that impressive and had to delay one full year, brought couple external help to Support them to release it.

Half life Alyx released at march 2020 so it hasn't passed even 3 full years and we have idiots at this thread that supposed to be adults saying that their company does not function and it's not good structured because they don't release games faster than companies that have double the employees of Valve in less time than them? Are you idiots or plain idiots? Sometimes you want to make a discussion about a topic but there are so many shit takes that dissuade you from even trying.
 
I don't think it's a matter of failure, but inefficiency. There are people who go to Valve, work on stuff for 8 years and leave and never worked on one product that shipped. There's something downright Sisyphean about that, no?

There's clearly a lot of dysfunction at Valve, but they have unlimited resources due to Steam's near monopoly on the PC games market so it all works out.
What inefficiency you talk about, are you even thinking clearly? Google their output they have released 3 years ago a game. Most developers need 5 years to release anything, if in 3 years they don't release anything then we can talk about it. But these guys have released a game, a successful handheld in 3 years time and you talk about inefficiency because they have different system of evaluation for employees?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
in 2019, whole foods conducted a study for amazon which concluded that diverse workplaces were much less likely to unionize or organize on their own behalf, therefore diversity is extremely useful for corporate structures.

funny, that.
I googled it and youre right. I never knew that about Whole Foods, and didnt think about unionization factors where diversity is part of the equation.

But thnking about it, maybe it does make sense. If workers look around the store and see a big mix of people as coworkers, maybe unionizing gets cold feet because you dont know or trust what the other groups of people will do. Like every office, different groups of people form cliques, and maybe places very diverse have people unsure of a group of people that are different and they never talk to will backstab for a management job or be best buddies with corporate. Who knows.

 

marquimvfs

Member
In the complete interview, the ex employee told that the lack of diversity hurts new games in the sense of new projects that don't have obvious perceived value gets shut down immediately by other employees. The way I see, if it's true, it's the thing that saved them of becoming Activision/Ubisoft, but with even worse games. Looks to me he's complaining that his shitty ideas weren't even considered, so he blamed the white cis male for it.
 
Last edited:
Valve may have the best track record in gaming. Not only that, they singlehandedly changed the way computer games are distributed. This article seems like it's creating a problem that doesn't exist.

Considering they make money hand over fist with Steam, the fact that they continue to develop games (and hardware) at all is admirable. Somehow I doubt adding a few black guys to the staff is gonna get me Half Life 3 next month.
 

Kenpachii

Member
Endless money income is what prevents releases of games so rarely.

The company released steam deck, and frankly shit is amazing. less diversity if more stuff like steam decks get pushed.
 

Crayon

Member
I'm significantly stoned. This is confusing because they are really using the fact they don't make many games as a hanger for their work culture complaint. It's more likely they don't make many games because they don't have many of their not-that-many people working on games. It's opportunity cost.
 

WitchHunter

Member
[/URL]

Recently, the YouTube channel People Make Games delved into the inner workings of Valve through interviews with former and current employees. The video highlights the unique working environment at Valve, which allows for ad-hoc team formation through the use of wheeled desks. However, this approach has also led to issues, with some employees comparing the workplace to the chaos and lack of structure in William Golding's novel The Lord of the Flies.



One of the key issues raised in the video is the use of stack ranking, a system in which employees are evaluated and ranked by their peers, with these rankings determining salary increases for the following year. Without clear guidelines or oversight, this process has led to negative effects on employee behavior and morale. Valve employees also highlighted a significant lack of diversity within the company, pointing to the flat organizational structure as a contributing factor. While the videogame industry as a whole struggle with diversity, the homogeneity at Valve is particularly striking, with the majority of employees being white and male.

During the interview, Valve employees also provided several examples to illustrate how the flat organizational structure of the company is a significant contributing factor to the majority of the problems currently being faced. They emphasized that the lack of a clear hierarchy and defined roles within the company has led to difficulty in decision-making and a lack of accountability, resulting in various issues, including the limited number of games released by the company. Valve Corporation, should most definitely listen to its employees, and make changes that they feel are appropriate. After all, they are the experts in their field, and they know what the company needs in order to improve.

oh valve... People nuthugging the company that made every half life fan a complete idiot for 10+ years. Literally shitting on their heads and laughing at them while pocketing their money and feeding off on their misery. And people are obsessed with the company, protecting it like their life depends on it.

Valve and its cabal system and other control freakish things are the worst and must be dealt with a fully loaded flammenwerfer.

There was a great reddit thread where an ex employee details the horrendous working conditions there, the mind bending psyops to turn people inside out and the inhumane things he had to endure because he wanted to do his job. I experienced something similar and I can't compare the experience to anything. Basically a bunch of trained psychos try to strip away your sanity inch by inch. The way is depicted/very similar to what was shown in the movie Midsommar.

The company has the same modus operandi as 3drealms/apogee. They both have a product that never materialized for 10+years. Hl3 and dnf walk hand in hand.

Wonder why? These are the lowest human scums, bred from an early age with one sole purpose: to make as much people miserable as possible, make them complete fools and feed on your misery just for laughs. People wouldn't believe what the fuck they are actually "feeding".

Wretched scum, nothing more, nothing less.
 

Washington Demographics​

According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of Washington was:
  • White: 73.53%
  • Asian: 8.82%
  • Two or more races: 7.08%
  • Other race: 4.80%
  • Black or African American: 3.86%
  • Native American: 1.22%
  • Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.68%
Do better washington. Be more diverse
 

Crayon

Member
oh valve... People nuthugging the company that made every half life fan a complete idiot for 10+ years. Literally shitting on their heads and laughing at them while pocketing their money and feeding off on their misery. And people are obsessed with the company, protecting it like their life depends on it.

Valve and its cabal system and other control freakish things are the worst and must be dealt with a fully loaded flammenwerfer.

There was a great reddit thread where an ex employee details the horrendous working conditions there, the mind bending psyops to turn people inside out and the inhumane things he had to endure because he wanted to do his job. I experienced something similar and I can't compare the experience to anything. Basically a bunch of trained psychos try to strip away your sanity inch by inch. The way is depicted/very similar to what was shown in the movie Midsommar.

The company has the same modus operandi as 3drealms/apogee. They both have a product that never materialized for 10+years. Hl3 and dnf walk hand in hand.

Wonder why? These are the lowest human scums, bred from an early age with one sole purpose: to make as much people miserable as possible, make them complete fools and feed on your misery just for laughs. People wouldn't believe what the fuck they are actually "feeding".

Wretched scum, nothing more, nothing less.

I used to think everyone was conspiring against me at work among other things before I got this medication. I read the story you are talking about and it reminded me of that. That guy needs help and maybe you do too. I did.
 

IFireflyl

Gold Member
I feel like diversity hires for companies would be a non-issue if large companies were forced to implement a blind hiring process. Age, ethnicity, and gender should all be removed from the hiring staff when reviewing a resume. This information is only needed for H.R. as companies aren't allowed to discriminate based on these criteria anyway. As far as the interview goes, to be as close to a blind hiring process as possible you could have an interviewer that is the same gender and ethnicity as the interviewee. The interviewer would pass along any details to the hiring staff that is requested. This would include answers to any questions the hiring staff wanted asked, but could also include things like, "Did the interviewee sound confident," or, "Did the interviewee maintain appropriate eye contact."

This type of hiring process would slightly extend the amount of work it takes to hire someone, but since the hiring staff wouldn't have data on age (other than knowing they were of legal working age, otherwise the applicant wouldn't have made it that far), ethnicity, or gender this would be as close to an unbiased interview as possible.

Also, the reason I specified that this should be for large companies is due to smaller companies not having the resources to perform this kind of hiring process. "Large companies" doesn't include franchises. McDonald's, for example, is a franchise, and the individual stores have different owners who do their own hiring. Your local McDonald's isn't going to employ the appropriate staff to make this blind hiring process work. Additionally, small mom and pop shops wouldn't have the resources to utilize this kind of hiring process.

It's pretty late, so maybe this idea is super stupid. I just figured if something like this could be implemented it would save a lot of complaints about people not being hired due to X. That doesn't resolve any issues that could occur after someone is hired, but I don't have suggestions on how to make racists and sexists not be racist and sexist in the workplace. Unless we could do something with shock collars... but on/in the reproductive organ instead of around the neck... I'm going to bed.
 
Last edited:

Tams

Gold Member
Just to bullet this... Valve has, off the top of my head:
1. created the best VR game of all time
2. created one of the best VR headsets of all time
3. created the best portable PC gaming device of all time
4. is in the process of perfecting the ability to play any windows game on linux
5. created their own stable OS that is based on linux
6.has multiple GaaS titles with hundreds of thousands of players
7. has lured every single third party dev back to their platform after trying to be like Valve

"barely functioning" :messenger_tears_of_joy:
1. No argument there. Not personally a fan, but that doesn't matter.
2. The Index is mostly HTC's work with Valve contributing and deciding which features they want.
3. Debatable. It's a chonker for a start. Great device, but best of all time?
4. They actually have done and do very little of the work there. That's been and is done by Wine (held by the Software Freedom Conservancy) and sponsored mostly by CodeWeavers (who work with Valve on Proton). Valve mostly just do scripting to automate stuff for themselves.
5. Their OS is just a fork of a Linux fork. Really nothing special there.
6. Yes. Though they don't seem to interested in developing those games further.
7. Other games stores are still doing fine.
 
Last edited:

KingT731

Member

Washington Demographics​

According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of Washington was:
  • White: 73.53%
  • Asian: 8.82%
  • Two or more races: 7.08%
  • Other race: 4.80%
  • Black or African American: 3.86%
  • Native American: 1.22%
  • Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.68%
This is actually interesting when you look into the history of the pacific northwest and why exactly it is the way it is. I'd wager to say you'd all be quite intrigued.
 

Gp1

Member
Almost a monopoly in a open, free for all market for more than a decade, with multi billion dollar company with less than 1000 employees.

Valve is doing alright with that structure.
 
Considering the quality of there games and there resources there the most disappointing company ever.

There release schedule almost makes Rockstars history look packed.
 
Top Bottom